Bigby Glory of Giants available for Preorder

[Psyren]

https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/prod...hysical-bundle

Release date 8/15/23, early access 8/1/23 if you buy the physical+digital bundle.

They only mention the Barbarian subclass in the marketing blurb, which is great and all (yay, we have a non-RK martial option to grapple big things!) but the associated UA had two more - the dino pet druid and the rune wizard. Were they axed? Ugh.

[P. G. Macer]

https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/prod...hysical-bundle

Release date 8/15/23, early access 8/1/23 if you buy the physical+digital bundle.

They only mention the Barbarian subclass in the marketing blurb, which is great and all (yay, we have a non-RK martial option to grapple big things!) but the associated UA had two more - the dino pet druid and the rune wizard. Were they axed? Ugh.

I suspect the wizard subclass was indeed axed, as IIRC Craword said it received lots of negative feedback.
The Druid subclass I’m less sure about; while on the one hand it definitely is not showing up in Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants, or it would be mentioned in the marketing, the whole dinosaur/prehistoric theme doesn’t match up all too well with giants, so we may still see it in one of the last 5.0e products before the revised core rulebooks come out. Judging at least from fora feedback, the consensus seemed to be that it needed some revision but was still quite good, so I hope/doubt WotC hasn’t abandoned it entirely.

[Psyren]

I suspect the wizard subclass was indeed axed, as IIRC Craword said it received lots of negative feedback.

Got a link for that by any chance? I always like to peek behind the curtain.

My other theory is they both got axed since they wouldn't fit with the upcoming subclass-at-three design.

[Boverk]

So since they're releasing this new Barbarian subclass while they're working on OneDnd, do you think they'll have it be one of the 4 barbarian subclasses?

I hope so, and I'm curious what's changed.

Link to the Giant UA

[KorvinStarmast]

So since they're releasing this new Barbarian subclass while they're working on OneDnd, do you think they'll have it be one of the 4 barbarian subclasses?

I hope so, and I'm curious what's changed.

Link to the Giant UA

I dislike the Wizard Runecrafter, since it steps all over Rune Knight.

[Zevox]

The Druid subclass I’m less sure about; while on the one hand it definitely is not showing up in Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants, or it would be mentioned in the marketing, the whole dinosaur/prehistoric theme doesn’t match up all too well with giants, so we may still see it in one of the last 5.0e products before the revised core rulebooks come out.

That seems plausible. I certainly remember my feedback on that one included questioning why it was included in a Giants-themed UA when it didn't seem to have anything to do with Giants.

[Mongobear]

If that Barb subclass goes live as is, that'll be the new king of Barb Damage dealing options.

[Boverk]

If that Barb subclass goes live as is, that'll be the new king of Barb Damage dealing options.

I imagine the extra damage might get the "once per turn" language added.

[stoutstien]

If that Barb subclass goes live as is, that'll be the new king of Barb Damage dealing options.

How so? Mighty impel is neat but beast barbs are already doing the fall damage thing and the bonus damage dice only beat on zealot if you make 3 attacks per round. It honestly looks good but not because it deals damage. It's actually sticky which is nice.


*Mostly because it's directly promotes not taking GWM/PaM.*

[Dork_Forge]

Not a fan of the early access thing on a product that was delayed significantly, but hey, at least we're finally getting more content thst isn't an adventure.

[Mongobear]

How so? Mighty impel is neat but beast barbs are already doing the fall damage thing and the bonus damage dice only beat on zealot if you make 3 attacks per round. It honestly looks good but not because it deals damage. It's actually sticky which is nice.


*Mostly because it's directly promotes not taking GWM/PaM.*

they add +1d6 (and later +2d6) to every single weapon attack damage

[Psyren]

I don't see the early access thing going away, they've been doing it since MPMM (or maybe Fizban's? Tasha's? Too lazy to check) and clearly it's working.

How so? Mighty impel is neat but beast barbs are already doing the fall damage thing and the bonus damage dice only beat on zealot if you make 3 attacks per round. It honestly looks good but not because it deals damage. It's actually sticky which is nice.


*Mostly because it's directly promotes not taking GWM/PaM.*

1) While the boost to throwing is nice, the subclass has plenty of synergy with PAM - Elemental Cleaver works with it, and being bigger also promotes a melee build.

2) Speaking of Elemental Cleaver - that gets you +3d6 per round with PAM, upgrading to +6d6 at 14, and that's not counting OAs or Haste. That beats most subclasses including Zealot at most levels.

Ninja'd by Mongobear

[stoutstien]

they add +1d6 (and later +2d6) to every single weapon attack damage

Ok. That's nice but it hardly leaps and bounds above other options. It's slightly ahead of zealot if you RA a lot but that if they pick up a bonus action attack that conflicts with impel which is better damage anyways. (Dropping someone for 3d6 + advantage from prone is a lot safer than trading blows. Also stacks with blender tactics which easily out pace the bonus action attack)

Beast is also right there and have similar abilities to grapple/airdrop without eating up half their attacks.

The strong points is it ability to grapple/shove and yo yo targets. The extra riders are mostly a bonus.

*Assuming 78% chance to hit with adv and PAM cleaver adds~6.8 first round and 10.24 after that. Zealot with same and 1d6+ 3 is ~8 and ~9 respectively. So it's not until the third round that it even pulls ahead and zealot also has *miss* protection and scales gradually. Haven't looked the top end yet but I doubt it's much different*

[KorvinStarmast]

Pre ordered on Roll 20, I suspect I'll apply some of it in the next campaign.

[LibraryOgre]

That this is not named "Bigby's Giant Handbook" is a travesty.

[Psyren]

Even if you view them merely as being "slightly ahead" of the best Barbarian subclass while also offering way more battlefield control/utility than any of them... that still answers your question.

[stoutstien]

Even if you view them merely as being "slightly ahead" of the best Barbarian subclass while also offering way more battlefield control/utility than any of them... that still answers your question.

Zealot isn't the best. it's just turn key. Though zealot presence and focus are pretty solid but don't show up in the theoretic side of things. Having ~1 extra damage than the zealot assuming everything works out is hardly saying much of anything. At the high point it has a ~3 lead after the first round. At no point does it pull ahead before the 3 round. Seems pretty balanced to me.

[Psyren]

Zealot isn't the best.

Every subclass tier list for Barb I've seen puts it on top, so we may have to agree to disagree here.

Having ~1 extra damage than the zealot assuming everything works out is hardly saying much of anything. At the high point it has a ~3 lead after the first round.

I think our math is very different too.

[stoutstien]

Every subclass tier list for Barb I've seen puts it on top, so we may have to agree to disagree here.



I think our math is very different too.

Eh. Math isn't hard as everything stays the same besides the 1/round rider vs adding the dice to each attack. Like 1d6+3 static is 7.77/8.97(first round with rage/following turns) with crits at 70% adv and PaM. 1d6 per attack is 3.13 per attack. The zealot scales where the giant doesn't get get a boost until 14 which by this time the zealot is at 12.5/13.9 compared to 6.25. so even at the high points the gap .. isn't.

*70% hit chance is also in the giants favor as it has a higher impact on per hit riders compared to the all in one zealot. You start playing around with different AC ranges it's pretty much a wash. Having a~99% chance to apply the damage vs dealing with the odds on every single attack is a subtle difference that won't show looking at average results in isolation.*

I'm not saying its a bad subclass past my usual complaint that it gets practically zero non rage features but that's pretty normal for WoTC. It's solid and promotes interactions with others which compared to the GWM/Pam drones is leagues better.

[Sigreid]

That this is not named "Bigby's Giant Handbook" is a travesty.

Not Bigby's Giant Handjob? I'll show myself out...

[Unoriginal]

That this is not named "Bigby's Giant Handbook" is a travesty.

Bigby's Handbook: Giants