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  1. - Top - End - #1111
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Othar has not attempted to kill a Spark on screen since - the escape from Castle Wulfenbach? Has he done anything to advance the de-Sparkification of Europa since then?

    It's pretty clear he has a to-do list, and stopping the Polar Lords was ahead of killing Gil, and probably not having an Eldritch Horror manifest in Mechanicsburg is ahead of killing Agatha.

    Question for discussion - if, once things are more or less normal by Europa standards, Othar were given a choice of killing only one of Agatha, Gil, and Tarvek, which one would he kill?

    Probably *not* Tarvek, who works very hard at appearing to be non-threatening, and is therefore probably the most dangerous of the three in a political sense.

    Is Tarvek a Spark whose specialty is spy networks?
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
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  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    I feel like "Unhinged Othar" really lasted like, three pages until Agatha pushed him out of the balloon. Ever since then he's been fairly reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  3. - Top - End - #1113
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by brc View Post
    i feel like "unhinged othar" really lasted like, three pages until agatha pushed him out of the balloon. Ever since then he's been fairly reasonable.
    "foul!!!!"
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    wingnutx's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I will renominate "[To be fair], I absolutely intend to replace it with my own madness"; the portion in brackets may be truncated if needed.
    This one has my vote.
    GO FOR THE EYES, BOO!!!

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Let's assume that unhinged Othar is still there, ready to spring forth once The Other and Eldritch Horrors are no longer threatening to end Europa's very existence.

    Once unhinged Othar pops back out, what's his to-do list look like? There's the "kill in this order regardless of difficulty" list, and then the "kill in this order considering whether I can hope to do it" list. I mean, he's not going to free Europa from Spark rule if he waits for 72 years and finally takes out Gil or Agatha, then another 45 years to get the heir, and then 37 years to get the new Big Bad.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Divayth Fyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    I mean, his goal isn't even freeing Europa from Spark rule, but rather removing all the Sparks (with him commiting suicide in the end). Which is a goal that as far as we know is impossible to achieve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

  7. - Top - End - #1117
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    My personal take is that Othar's "Mission" is more a goal than a practical day-to-day concern.

    Which is to say, his primary goal is to be A Hero. He can't do that if he goes around trying to assassinate every considerable political figure. Sparks are usually either 1) Obvious Threats, 2) Major Political Leaders, or 3) Valuable assets for major political leaders.


    When he tries to kill Agatha, he knows nothing about her except that she's a Spark who just fled Castle Wulfenbach. He has no idea what she's going to do. My guess is that Othar's policy if he encounters a lone spark that he can kill without consequence and knows nothing about is to kill them before they get a chance to blow up the nearest village with their Exploding Omelette.

    Any other spark he handles on a case-by-case basis. If they're a known heroic quantity, he'll spare them. If they're well known or work for somebody powerful, he needs to consider the risks and consequences of a little impromptu assassination. Agatha in the Balloon is basically one of the few cases where he'll just kill somebody for being a spark. Otherwise, he's either sparing them, or killing them because he's a Hero.

    Like, woe become the minor spark who happens to spot a friendly campfire and asks to spend the night, but in general, I think he's far less practically devoted to his Mission.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Like, woe become the minor spark who happens to spot a friendly campfire and asks to spend the night, but in general, I think he's far less practically devoted to his Mission.
    Interestingly enough Dumedd survived exactly such a situation.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  9. - Top - End - #1119
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Interestingly enough Dumedd survived exactly such a situation.
    Huh, Wiki diving says that in the novel it's apparently made clear that Othar didn't know that Dumedd was a spark when they met.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  10. - Top - End - #1120
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    Divayth Fyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    The Sneaky Gate is open

    Spoiler
    Show
    classic Othar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

  11. - Top - End - #1121
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Huh, Wiki diving says that in the novel it's apparently made clear that Othar didn't know that Dumedd was a spark when they met.
    Well, it was not stated in the comics as that meeting was only briefly mentioned in one flashback panel. That being said, they did meet at the Castle Wulfenbach, when Klaus tried to do research on Othar and Dumedd was brought there as he did not do his grease trap cleaning duties. Possibly Othar did not catch during that time that Theo is a spark.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  12. - Top - End - #1122
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.

  13. - Top - End - #1123
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    What sort of Vozzler would I be if I let a spell cast by a near-deific super-Spark stop me raise the question of just how powerful a humble Vozzler actually is - and how humble Thotep actually is.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  14. - Top - End - #1124
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.
    I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.

  15. - Top - End - #1125
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by MPHJack7 View Post
    I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.
    The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  16. - Top - End - #1126
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?
    While the exact details are not spelled out, Europans do seem to follow several flavors of Christianity.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a strict line is drawn between "magic" and "science". Old school sparks were apparently often referred to as wizards or sorcerers anytime Clarke's Third Law came into effect. Whatever Albia did is so far beyond Agatha's understanding of science that she calls it a "Spell". The implication has been that the "magic" we see is just as much sparkwork as deathrays and clanks, that Sparks reach a point where they're no longer visibly using anything we recognize as "technology".

    Note that Othar is, I believe, scandinavian, putting him near the territories of the Polar Lords, who seem to favor this style of "magic" over southern spark's use of machines and things. As a result, his culture might be especially gung-ho about such things.



    My personal headcanon is that as the general tech level advances, more Sparks break through and become apparent. Until the industrial revolution or so, only sparks good enough to bend the fabric of reality by wiggling their fingers or brewing things out of herbs really got to play around in the Madness Place, and even then only if they had a mentor OR were smart enough to work it out from first principles alone, hence "Wizards". As understandable technology and scientific education become more common, the proverbial "bar" is lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  17. - Top - End - #1127
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.
    Quote Originally Posted by MPHJack7 View Post
    I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.
    I've added "British" to the beginning of the first one, but otherwise both noted.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

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  18. - Top - End - #1128
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    While the exact details are not spelled out, Europans do seem to follow several flavors of Christianity.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a strict line is drawn between "magic" and "science". Old school sparks were apparently often referred to as wizards or sorcerers anytime Clarke's Third Law came into effect. Whatever Albia did is so far beyond Agatha's understanding of science that she calls it a "Spell". The implication has been that the "magic" we see is just as much sparkwork as deathrays and clanks, that Sparks reach a point where they're no longer visibly using anything we recognize as "technology".

    Note that Othar is, I believe, scandinavian, putting him near the territories of the Polar Lords, who seem to favor this style of "magic" over southern spark's use of machines and things. As a result, his culture might be especially gung-ho about such things.



    My personal headcanon is that as the general tech level advances, more Sparks break through and become apparent. Until the industrial revolution or so, only sparks good enough to bend the fabric of reality by wiggling their fingers or brewing things out of herbs really got to play around in the Madness Place, and even then only if they had a mentor OR were smart enough to work it out from first principles alone, hence "Wizards". As understandable technology and scientific education become more common, the proverbial "bar" is lowered.
    It makes sense that Clarke's 3rd law would apply, and that therefore the stronger the Spark the more they are referred to as wizards / witches.
    I remember old Andronicus referring to Van Rijn as a sorcerer, which makes sense in this context.
    Technology makes it easier for humans to do things. Therefore, it make sense that a weak Spark without any tech to help them would not find it easy to accomplish much. It would take a strong Spark indeed to go from "live in cave with flint knives" to "I'm going to create metal alloys of various levels of ductility and hardness and craft clanks from them".
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  19. - Top - End - #1129
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post

    Question for discussion - if, once things are more or less normal by Europa standards, Othar were given a choice of killing only one of Agatha, Gil, and Tarvek, which one would he kill?
    He has already made an exception for Agatha due to her being a Heterodyne (as Othar seems to equate the name to her father and uncle rather than any other ancestor) so likely Gil whose family lineage was very much on Othar's chopping block.

    Also, I am not even sure if Othar has even realized Tarvek is a spark yet.
    Last edited by Devlerbat; 2024-02-23 at 07:23 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #1130
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlerbat View Post
    He has already made an exception for Agatha due to her being a Heterodyne (as Othar seems to equate the name to her father and uncle rather than any other ancestor) so likely Gil whose family lineage was very much on Othar's chopping block.

    Also, I am not even sure if Othar has even realized Tarvek is a spark yet.
    He knows, he said so during the meeting in Paris, and that Tarvek will be among the last to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?
    In his Twitter adventures, he describes himself a Deist. And since Albia is older the Jesus, if you follow the latter's teachings in some form, that makes her a heathen.

    Moloch's mother picked his name out of a copy of the Bible (without reading the context), so it does exist in some form in Europa.
    Last edited by geoduck; 2024-02-23 at 09:18 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #1131
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    In his Twitter adventures, he describes himself a Deist. And since Albia is older the Jesus, if you follow the latter's teachings in some form, that makes her a heathen.

    Moloch's mother picked his name out of a copy of the Bible (without reading the context), so it does exist in some form in Europa.
    Also we have the Corbetite monks and the seven Popes. I suspect the cathedral in Mechanicsburg is also (nominally) christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  22. - Top - End - #1132
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Also we have the Corbetite monks and the seven Popes. I suspect the cathedral in Mechanicsburg is also (nominally) christian.
    Probably not, according to the novels. The original christian clergy apparantly didn't last very long.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

    "Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee

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