Order of the Stars Druid

[Pex]

If the Stars Druid spends one wild shape to go into animal form then next round another wild shape to go into Starry Form, if he chooses Archer can he use the bonus action to do the spell attack that Archer allows?

[Kane0]

I dont see why not. You could be a squirrel shooting laser beams.

[stoutstien]

Thats half the fun.

[KorvinStarmast]

I dont see why not. You could be a squirrel shooting laser beams.

I need to share this with the Stars Druid who is playing in our group tonight. I think it will appeal to him.

[RogueJK]

Yes, it's doable, since Stars Forms are not spells and therefore are not precluded from use while in Wild Shape form. But it's not a very efficient way to spend your limited 2x/SR Wild Shape uses, burning both of them at the same time.

Besides, non-Moon Druids have fairly limited combat-capable forms anyway, and even those are only useful in a very narrow range of levels, generally in Tier 1 (like a Velociraptor at levels 2-3, or a Crocodile at level 4). Past that, the slow scaling of non-Moon Wild Shape means they just can't hang with enemy scaling.

Their Wild Shape is better suited for exploration/infiltration, with in-combat Wild Shape being best reserved for an emergency HP buffer if you're about to go down. In that scenario it might be worth burning both Wild Shape charges to do something like become a Giant Eagle to circle at 100' above the battlefield, swooping in to use Stars Form ranged attacks. Maybe.

A squirrel shooting laser beams is thematically cool, but becomes much less mechanically cool when you realize that a squirrel has something like 10 AC and 1 HP. (Using the Rat stat block, since there isn't an official Squirrel stat.)

[Unoriginal]

Yes, it's doable, since Stars Forms are not spells and therefore are not precluded from use while in Wild Shape form. But it's not a very efficient way to spend your limited 2x/SR Wild Shape uses, burning both of them at the same time.

Besides, non-Moon Druids have fairly limited combat-capable forms anyway, and even those are only useful in a very narrow range of levels, generally in Tier 1 (like a Velociraptor at levels 2-3, or a Crocodile at level 4). Past that, the slow scaling of non-Moon Wild Shape means they just can't hang with enemy scaling.

Their Wild Shape is better suited for exploration/infiltration, with in-combat Wild Shape being best reserved for an emergency HP buffer if you're about to go down. In that scenario it might be worth burning both Wild Shape charges to do something like become a Giant Eagle to circle at 100' above the battlefield, swooping in to use Stars Form ranged attacks. Maybe.

A squirrel shooting laser beams is thematically cool, but becomes much less mechanically cool when you realize that a squirrel has something like 10 AC and 1 HP. (Using the Rat stat block, since there isn't an official Squirrel stat.)

There are still times where it's mechanically cool, though.

It lets you defend yourself while in your Rat wildshape, for starter, which is a big step up from other Druids who require to drop the shape to do so (and there are plenty of places you infiltrate as a rat where you don't want to revert to your regular body).

Secondly, that opens up sabotage and assassination options.

You're correct that it's a sometime food more than a main gimmick, though.

Regardless, it does make using non-Moon Druid wildshapes in combat more useful.

[Hawk7915]

I have done this as a Stars Druid. It's best at Level 2, where a Wolf is still a significant additional HP buffer and where being a spider-climbing threat that shoots star beams can trivialize certain encounters, and gets dramatically worse as you keep leveling since your forms fall off fast and the action cost of spending your first turn shapeshifting becomes more expensive. I'm only level 6, so I do imagine it'll go back to being very good again at 8 when flying forms are an option (before falling back off at 10 when Dragon Constellation can also give you a fly speed).

As noted, even with all this, it's a pretty niche option. Star Druids are meant to be spamming Guiding Bolts and other offensive spells with their spell slots, and you won't have a good use of your action if you are hovering around the margins with star beams, nor will you be contributing the way you are supposed to for your level.

[Pex]

Yes, it's doable, since Stars Forms are not spells and therefore are not precluded from use while in Wild Shape form. But it's not a very efficient way to spend your limited 2x/SR Wild Shape uses, burning both of them at the same time.

Besides, non-Moon Druids have fairly limited combat-capable forms anyway, and even those are only useful in a very narrow range of levels, generally in Tier 1 (like a Velociraptor at levels 2-3, or a Crocodile at level 4). Past that, the slow scaling of non-Moon Wild Shape means they just can't hang with enemy scaling.

Their Wild Shape is better suited for exploration/infiltration, with in-combat Wild Shape being best reserved for an emergency HP buffer if you're about to go down. In that scenario it might be worth burning both Wild Shape charges to do something like become a Giant Eagle to circle at 100' above the battlefield, swooping in to use Stars Form ranged attacks. Maybe.

A squirrel shooting laser beams is thematically cool, but becomes much less mechanically cool when you realize that a squirrel has something like 10 AC and 1 HP. (Using the Rat stat block, since there isn't an official Squirrel stat.)

I had to. We were on a small boat (3rd level) fighting a sea monster of some kind. One bite put me near death. Another would kill. I cast Moon Beam then wild shape into a spider so the monster couldn't see me. I then went into Archer for further help. Dragon was useless because concentration didn't matter. If I was hit I would drop even in normal form. Any healing would not be enough even with Chalice. The monster had to be defeated as fast as possible, heal later.

DM ruled it was allowed at the time for speed of play and would look it up during the week. I'm doing the same getting people's opinions.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm only level 6, so I do imagine it'll go back to being very good again at 8 when flying forms are an option (before falling back off at 10 when Dragon Constellation can also give you a fly speed).

Dire Wolf at CR 1 offers a nice choice also.

But an eagle with the archer/laser beams from on high? Cool!

[RogueJK]

I had to. We were on a small boat (3rd level) fighting a sea monster of some kind. One bite put me near death. Another would kill. I cast Moon Beam then wild shape into a spider so the monster couldn't see me. I then went into Archer for further help. Dragon was useless because concentration didn't matter. If I was hit I would drop even in normal form. Any healing would not be enough even with Chalice. The monster had to be defeated as fast as possible, heal later.

Yep. That's the kind of niche scenario in which I had envisioned it being potentially useful. But it's not going to be your go-to combat plan.

[Pex]

Yep. That's the kind of niche scenario in which I had envisioned it being potentially useful. But it's not going to be your go-to combat plan.

Definitely. I've had my fun casting Guiding Bolt then benefiting my own advantage with Archer. I'm patiently waiting for Polymorph and Dragon constellation.

[RogueJK]

Definitely. I've had my fun casting Guiding Bolt then benefiting my own advantage with Archer.

That's one way to do it, but consider whether your party has someone else who might benefit more from that Advantage from Guiding Bolt. You can make your BA Archer attack first, and then use your Action to cast Guiding Bolt, with the Advantage benefitting the next attack made by an even stronger ally, rather than just yourself.

Granting Advantage to your BA Archer Form attack that deals a mere 1d8+WIS is fine. However (for example)... Granting Advantage and triggering Sneak Attack on your party Rogue's attack dealing 1d8+2d6+DEX is even better. Or granting Advantage to your party Fighter's GWM Greatsword attack dealing 2d6+10+STR is great. Or granting your party Hexblade/Paladin Triple Advantage with an expanded crit range while crit-fishing for a Critical Smite with Elven Accuracy and Hexblade's Curse is borderline overpowered!

D&D is a team sport.

[Pex]

That's one way to do it, but consider whether your party has someone else who might benefit more from that Advantage from Guiding Bolt. You can make your BA Archer attack first, and then use your Action to cast Guiding Bolt, with the Advantage benefitting the next attack made by an even stronger ally, rather than just yourself.

Granting Advantage to your BA Archer Form attack that deals a mere 1d8+WIS is fine. However (for example)... Granting Advantage and triggering Sneak Attack on your party Rogue's attack dealing 1d8+2d6+DEX is even better. Or granting Advantage to your party Fighter's GWM Greatsword attack dealing 2d6+10+STR is great. Or granting your party Hexblade/Paladin Triple Advantage with an expanded crit range while crit-fishing for a Critical Smite with Elven Accuracy and Hexblade's Curse is borderline overpowered!

D&D is a team sport.

I already know that. There's a difference between not knowing how two game mechanics interact in a way that never came up before in your playing experience wanting people's opinions of it and knowing how to play the game. This is not my first rodeo.