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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Daemon

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    Default Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    What qualities do you find particularly attractive about a character sheet? What pieces do you want up front (ie front page, in the "high visual weight" areas[1]?)

    Conversely, are there things that annoy you or make you reflexively dislike a character sheet design?

    Does this strongly vary between type of game? Ie is a class/level sheet radically different from a more "flat" game (either pure point buy like GURPS or something like the Storyteller/D10 system)?

    [1] Generally considered to be in the hierarchy "top > bottom, left > right", with the top-left being the most important and forming kinda an F shaped pattern, with the bottom right being the least "heavy" area.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Paper or digital?

    Digital: the thing I like the most is automated math, but with "mouseover" tooltips that shows the behind the scene math that breaks down that xyz result to be NdX dices + 5 apples -3 bananas

    Paper: I'll bring a tablet for a digital sheet equivalent, thank you very much.

    But for what content should have the spotlight: the most commonly referenced/used thingamabobs!

    I suppose I dislike when the "first page" is the background&image. That's as far as being the sheet as possible, bru.

    Mmm I also like having many little tickbox for "daily uses" stuff, ticking a tickbox is more satisfying to me than updating an x/y counter, and more elegant besides if I'm actually forcedto use paper

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Things I want.
    First line - name and class/occupation.
    Second line - space to write in the 2 or 3 defining personality traits of the character (eg obsequious and devious, brash and easily distracted, reserved and disdainful).
    After that working from top to bottom in order or importance/how often used.
    If the system has modifiers derived from characteristics give me the modifier (eg in D&D 99% of the time it is more important to know a character has a +2 modifier rather than a 16 or 17 score in that characteristic).

    Please do not give me a list of all the skills in the game. Let me write in the skills I actually have skill points in, and let me assume that if nothing is written I have zero skill. I only want to know what my character has and don’t want to waste time reading a list of things my character doesn’t have.

    Please give me a page 2 of the character sheet. I can
    - write a paragraph or two of my backstory there
    - keep track of my consumables
    - list my NPC contacts there.
    Things that are useful to know but that I’m not going to be referencing all the time.
    I’d rather have 2 easy to read sheets than have everything crammed into one hard to read sheet.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    It can be nice to group things together spatially if they're likely to be referenced together temporally. Something many sheets do is put weapon damage right next to weapon attack modifier. Because, if you look up latter, there's a good chance you'll soon be looking up the former. Unless your character is really bad at hitting. But the same idea can be used more broadly. What do you expect to constitute major "phases" of typical gaming sessions? Exploration, social interaction, and combat? Then you can give each one it's own chunk of the character sheet.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    Please do not give me a list of all the skills in the game. Let me write in the skills I actually have skill points in, and let me assume that if nothing is written I have zero skill. I only want to know what my character has and don’t want to waste time reading a list of things my character doesn’t have.
    For games that are not D&D 5e, that's good. My Blades in the Dark sheet has a lot of stuff on it, but it's all stuff that my Hound uses.
    In D&D 5e, since as a PC you can try any skill/ability check whether or not you are proficient, you need them all.
    Please give me a page 2 of the character sheet. I can
    - write a paragraph or two of my backstory there
    - keep track of my consumables
    - list my NPC contacts there.
    Things that are useful to know but that I’m not going to be referencing all the time.
    I’d rather have 2 easy to read sheets than have everything crammed into one hard to read sheet.
    Or, as I used to do in AD&D, that's what I put on the back of the piece of paper, although usually my consumables were in the lower right quadrant of and 8 1/2" x 11" inch piece of graph paper.
    Why graph paper? Boxes for ticking things off were already there.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    It can be nice to group things together spatially if they're likely to be referenced together temporally. Something many sheets do is put weapon damage right next to weapon attack modifier. Because, if you look up latter, there's a good chance you'll soon be looking up the former. Unless your character is really bad at hitting. But the same idea can be used more broadly. What do you expect to constitute major "phases" of typical gaming sessions? Exploration, social interaction, and combat? Then you can give each one it's own chunk of the character sheet.
    Agreed-- this is a really nice design choice.

    One thing I've come to really appreciate in a character sheet is reference information. I've hit the point in life where it's hard to find the time and brainspace to really get the rules down, especially when picking up a new game, so it's really nice to have a character sheet that reminds you of, like, the rules for grappling or the details of what your class features do. When I was designing the sheet for my d20 Exalted hack, I tried to fit as many rules as possible.
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    The specific layout should be game relevant, but as long as there is a clear order to the layout and the most commonly referenced information is clear and easy to find, I'm not real particular.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    [1] Generally considered to be in the hierarchy "top > bottom, left > right", with the top-left being the most important and forming kinda an F shaped pattern, with the bottom right being the least "heavy" area.
    I don't quite read character sheets that way. I typically do the normal reading pattern. To change that you have put in visual boxes. And that becomes a problem if there's more than about four or five.

    As a player I typically like a top area with normal type text for general character info (name, occupation, looks, gender, etc.) that takes up a few lines, then two or three columns taking up the middle of the page covering what gets used the most by the game system if and only if such things turn into nice lists that are fit for colums, then a single bottom chunk for generally invariant stuff that I may need reminding of.

    PbtA and D&D 4e sheets annoy me because the various critical core abilities don't list very well, too much yammering text. D&D 5e official sheet is trash because stuff is scattered all over, like attributes & skills getting the most important spots even though they don't change and are tertiary info. Plus D&D in general thede days tends to slather characters with so many intricate special abilities that it takes insane multiple sheets to manage one PC or else you have to leave out all the useful details.

    Columns, across the general population it turns out, scan quickly but read slower and with slightly less accuracy. So you don't want fiddly complex detailed text in them. My ideal format for a lot of stuff has become a name & minimum summation on the left of a page to be scanned as a column of text, with a line of related detail taking up the rest of the page.

    As a GM it's the same but ultra condensed abbreviations and set as a few wrapping lines of text. Nothing gets left to be looked up in a book, it has to be in the stat block or in my critical system reference sheets (those being basically a loose leaf GM screen). By standardizing & off loading all npc action scene spells to one reference page I can get lich, dragon, and aboleth all on one page of text for my game. It lets me run a 3-way encounter between the PCs, a lich, and an aboleth, with just two peices of paper and no book referencing.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    What qualities do you find particularly attractive about a character sheet? What pieces do you want up front (ie front page, in the "high visual weight" areas[1]?)

    Conversely, are there things that annoy you or make you reflexively dislike a character sheet design?

    Does this strongly vary between type of game? Ie is a class/level sheet radically different from a more "flat" game (either pure point buy like GURPS or something like the Storyteller/D10 system)?

    [1] Generally considered to be in the hierarchy "top > bottom, left > right", with the top-left being the most important and forming kinda an F shaped pattern, with the bottom right being the least "heavy" area.
    A sheet that is both informative and nice looking is a tall order.

    The basic things I want of a character sheet are the character's name, role synopsis in five words or less, a physical description or a picture, a personality description (such as three quotes from the character) and a brief backstory. You'd think these would be standard for roleplaying games, but surprising number of classic games either manage to miss some of these or give pitifully little room for them. Space is devoted to all kinds of numerical details regardless of how often they come up, and simple things like who a character is or what they look like are missing or scattered about.

    The basic things are followed by abilities and equipment. These are highly game specific and how they're best laid out depends on how they work in the game and how often they come up.

    Lamentations of the Flame Princess has character sheets (Grindhouse edition and Veins of the Earth edition) that are at the same time good examples of how to lay out game-specific mechanical information, and how traditional sheets miss basic things. Mechanical details are sorted into neat contextual boxes that occur roughly in order of how frequently they're needed and commonly referenced rules for movement and encumberance are helpfully repeated. I created the best version of LotFP sheet for my own use on accident when I printed Veins of the Earth sheet in A5 size on A4 paper. This left just enough space on the margins to manually add character synopsis, three quotes for personality and equipment in list form.

    I've also made several templates for online freeform games. The key is to use formatting tools available to create things like hyperlinks, nested spoiler boxes and hidden text so that a player can selectively show or hide information without lots of scrolling. Every section can start with one paragraph summary, with option to expand for details. The ability section is the one where things diverge the most. For a freeform game, how to best format that usually depends on the setting. The less characters have in common, the less sense it makes to have rigid and shared structure - something that mechanically busy tabletop games tend to forget.

    This is also a potential point of divergence for point-buy versus type-based games. Designer of a point-buy game typically can't tell which mechanics will be most relevant for a player-made character, so they often try cramming all of them on a sheet - meaning lot of space taken up by superfluous mechanical information. A type-based game could have different sheets optimized for different types. I use "potential" and "could", because in practice, a lot of type-based games miss this buss all the same.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Designed for A4 paper. It's the international standard paper size, get with the times.

    All important game information should fit on one side. A second side may be included for notes, backstory, or details of how your powers work, but I shouldn't [/I]have[/I] to flip a sheet of A4. In an incredibly crunchy game (e.g. Eclipse Phase 1e, Shadowrun) two pages might be acceptable.

    Rules references kept of the sheet as much as possible. Please make a separate reference sheet so there's not too much information in one place.

    The most important things about my character's appearance are their hair, eye, and skin colours, and their outfit. Particularly the outfit, space must be included so I can write my character's standard outfit down to the undergarments and placement of hidden knives.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Generally considered to be in the hierarchy "top > bottom, left > right", with the top-left being the most important and forming kinda an F shaped pattern, with the bottom right being the least "heavy" area.
    IMO, it is "middle-top > middle > middle-bottom > very bottom > very top". Most peoples can instinctively ignore the header and focus on the middle of the page. That's why useless things like "the name of the character" or "the class/level of the character" are at the very top, that's the kind of information you almost never need at the middle of the game session because you already know them. (At most, you reread them at the beginning of the session to refresh them in your mind).

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Does this strongly vary between type of game?
    Yes, for simpler games, I expect the character sheet to teach me the game, and I expect to never ever have to open the rulebook (unless I GM).

    Obviously, when you have some crunchier games, this expectation is not realistic anymore. Then, the priority is to reduce how often I have to flip the page, and how often I have to "search for" information on the front page. Having the background & description on the backside works well, for example, since those are places where I will write and consult "out of the session" but rarely during the session itself.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Different sections should be distinct and separate, but this should not be achieved by wasting space on fancy borders or embellishments. High frequency of use fields should be larger or higher contrast. When presenting information in chart/list form the lines should feature alternating background tints to make it easy to follow a given line across. No fancy illegible fonts, unless it’s for the name of the game (and maybe its slogan). Mixing of fluff and crunch sections on a single page should be limited unless it’s a one sided one page character sheet. Crunch pages occur before fluff pages, and categories that are referenced more frequently appear on earlier pages.

    It’s a dense grouping of information I’d like to spend as little time as necessary looking at. Speed and consistency of use are the priorities.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    The stats go in the big box and the modifiers go in the little box.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I designed mine to be 2 A4 papers, all the character stuff goes on one and all the inventory stuff goes on the other. That way you can fit the entire character sheet on one piece of paper by printing on both sides. That's my preference.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I think as a general rule, the stuff folks use together should be grouped together. I tend to like going from broad to speciffic, as you go down the page (but obviously different sets of stuff are going to be in their own areas). So basic character info at the top. Then stats. Then skills. Then abilities/feats/spells/whatever. Then "items you use often". This should include weapons (and the basic stats for weapons you have/use) and important/magic/whatever items.

    If you need a back, it should contain additional space for equipment (here's a great place to list all those small items you have in your pack maybe). Character notes. Obscure stuff (seldom used scrolls, potions, whatever). Stuff like that. Some people really like a character portrait area. Some don't care. If you have room on the front, put it on the front (since the folks who don't care, don't care, but those who do likely want it on the front). Um... Usually bottom right for the portrait (or top right as an alternative, kinda depends on layout).

    As a GM I like those kinds of guidelines if for no other reason than I know that if my players are flipping their sheets over, it means that they're really searching for some oddball thing they don't use often to deal with whatever is going on. Which can help clue me in that they're maybe hitting the outer edges of "things we can handle comfortably". Nice to know sometimes.

    Oh. I will totally second the point about useless style stuff. Fancy borders and designs may look great, and seemed like a great idea to some artist coming up with it. But that's not functional and takes up space. I don't know annyone who oohs and ahhs over fancy inch wide border designs more than one time when they first look at the sheet. Everytime after that, it's like "why is the usable space on this sheet so darn small!". And don't even think about putting fancy borders around every freaking boxed area within the sheet. Just... dont. Put the name of the game the sheet is for, on a single line, at the top of the sheet. Nothing more is needed.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    My habit is to keep the canonical character sheet on my computer, then print it out and bring it to the session with a pencil. This way the sheet is safe, but I don't have a computer in my way at the gaming table. Also, if I need to print some things at 6 point, it's legible.

    I try really hard to keep it on one side of one sheet of paper. So as I gain abilities through the game, it can get somewhat cramped. Often by end-game only I can read it, and only because I have it half-memorized. (An extreme case: I once used roman for normal stats and italics for transformed-into-a-giant-tiger).

    I try to precalculate things. For example, my Attacks table has attack mods and damage computed. If my weapon can be used multiple ways, even just charging vs not-charging, those get separate lines. This is separate from the list of weapons on my sheet (assuming a game with detailed combat mechanics).

    For daily or similar abilities, I like to print boxes on the sheet, and then check them in pencil when I use them up. Easy to erase for a new day.

    I don't put anything about backstory, personality or philosophy on the sheet. I might write them up separately, but my character sheet is a reference, and I don't need to look up that stuff.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I had been thinking about this recently and this thread reinforces my intuition: what you want on a character sheet is very personal, and you can't please everyone.

    My experience with sheets designed by other people is that they have way too much space devoted to things that I will never use and not nearly enough space for the things that I use often.
    And at least one poster here has created a list of what they consider the most important things on a character sheet that overlaps almost perfectly with my list of wasted space.

    So I guess my advice would be to make a sheet that pleases you, specifically. Play with it and identify some of its shortcomings, then create a new version to address those.
    And just accept that nobody else will love your sheet as-is, and the best compliment you'll get on it is when someone uses about 80% of it when making one that's perfect for them.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I'm presuming this is for your 5e variation, so DnDisms apply?
    I use an excel sheet, can get a share or screenshot if you like
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Preferences? Hmmm...

    Single Page is best. Alternately, everything I need mechanically is on page 1; detailed references (inventory, contacts, history, retainers, income streams, etc) are on later pages.

    Primary utility items (in D&D, AC, Initiative, HP, probably saving throws) are all really easy to find.

    Utility trumps coolness factor. Dropshadows can be cool, graphs / fill-in dots can be cool, AC shaped like a shield and HP shaped like a heart can be cool. Taking up half the page with a graphic, or making the text unreadable because it's overlaid with a graphic is not. Sparing use of color to direct attention to relevant items, or to group related features can be cool. A cacophony of color graphics, not so much.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Sparing use of color to direct attention to relevant items, or to group related features can be cool. A cacophony of color graphics, not so much.
    For colours, I'd add that you should assume that most peoples (or at least a good portion of them) who print it will print it in gray-scale.

    So the sheet should be designed for gray-scale in mind (with colours coming on top of that to improve it).

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoiMagnus View Post
    For colours, I'd add that you should assume that most peoples (or at least a good portion of them) who print it will print it in gray-scale.

    So the sheet should be designed for gray-scale in mind (with colours coming on top of that to improve it).
    Ironically grayscale is going to get most printers to use cyan to smooth out the gray transitions - or so the Internet tells me. Maybe simple black and white is the ideal for preserving colored ink?
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I have given this some more thought.
    If you are doing this for your NIH system, I need to basically sketch out what I think the visual lay out should be and send it to you via Dischord.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I have given this some more thought.
    If you are doing this for your NIH system, I need to basically sketch out what I think the visual lay out should be and send it to you via Dischord.
    That'd be great! My visual layout skills are...yeah. Very badly lacking.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    I want to design it myself, in Excel, so adjustments get made automatically (to the extent possible). In my 3.5e character sheets, when I change the character's experience points, the sheet automatically changes the BAB, Saving Throws, and number of spells. When I get magic items, I build them into the sheet.

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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    I want to design it myself, in Excel, so adjustments get made automatically (to the extent possible). In my 3.5e character sheets, when I change the character's experience points, the sheet automatically changes the BAB, Saving Throws, and number of spells. When I get magic items, I build them into the sheet.
    My brother does something similar. I use a pencil and an eraser, still.
    Old habit die hard.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    My brother does something similar. I use a pencil and an eraser, still.
    Old habit die hard.
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    My brother does something similar. I use a pencil and an eraser, still.
    Old habit die hard.
    I've done both, and have to admit that I prefer paper+pencil during the session. In one game I printed out a new sheet every session bar one (and that was only because I needed to track my status, particularly being poisoned, between sessions). Mostly I cared about skill totals automatically updating whenever I bought more stat points.

    But I'll only ever use a digital sheet during play in online games. There's something nice about marking down wounds in pencil.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Character Sheet Design--preferences?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    My brother does something similar. I use a pencil and an eraser, still.
    Old habit die hard.
    Yes, I understand. My first "character sheets" were 3x5 cards, for original D&D.

    But after I did a lot of the math research for my dissertation in Excel, it became my standard for any set of calculations that need to be done many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    They also occasionally come in handy for looking back at history and, depending on comp + power + complexity can be much more reliable. Came in to game one time and I was the only person who could play because the internet was down. I taunted them for 20 minutes until the kink got worked out.
    Actually, I usually save a version at each level, so I have the history. And I use a printed version during the game, taking notes in pencil and/or pen.

    This is (in my estimation) the best of both ways.

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