Baldur's Gate 3- What does fried Nautiloid taste like?

[Dragonus45]

I think "mutilation" in uncharitable, they're providing multiple options so your custom protagonist has a variety of expressions. Modern western RPGs, especially those with romance cutscenes, seem to be increasingly going this direction (see Cyberpunk.)

Yea Cyberpunk bothered me as well and it's disturbing to see it being normalized as an option, because mutilation is exactly the correct and factual description.

[Zombimode]

Maybe this is something they can patch? I'd submit a bug report.

Of course I could report it, but what exactly would I report? "Your german localization sucks, do it again"? Because that is the state of things. Pointing out the dozen or so errors in the character creation screen alone would just be a drop in the ocean.

And since audio is english only I have no reason to stick with the german localisation anyways.

[LaZodiac]

Yea Cyberpunk bothered me as well and it's disturbing to see it being normalized as an option, because mutilation is exactly the correct and factual description.

So I actually went to the effort of looking up what, exactly, you're talking about, and...

Man. Really? This sets you off? Better not have any ear piercings then.

[Dragonus45]

So I actually went to the effort of looking up what, exactly, you're talking about, and...

Man. Really? This sets you off? Better not have any ear piercings then.

Ear piercing? That's on odd comparison, since when does having an ear pierced mean you have to lop of a perfectly functional earlobe?

[LaZodiac]

Ear piercing? That's on odd comparison, since when does having an ear pierced mean you have to lop of a perfectly functional earlobe?

It felt an apt comparison for a variety of reasons- namely that "aesthetic" is not the only one might get their ears pierced. Some do it for similar reason as the in game option you seem so sternly against.

[Dragonus45]

It felt an apt comparison for a variety of reasons- namely that "aesthetic" is not the only one might get their ears pierced. Some do it for similar reason as the in game option you seem so sternly against.

At least as far as it goes for the vast majority of people they don't get a choice about it at all, but sure I guess I'm just being "stern" and all. So when you think they fix the obvious oversight here and enable a toggle for all characters instead of just half of them?

[LaZodiac]

At least as far as it goes for the vast majority of people they don't get a choice about it at all, but sure I guess I'm just being "stern" and all. So when you think they fix the obvious oversight here and enable a toggle for all characters instead of just half of them?

It's ludicrous to suggest they'd force everyone to be circumcised.

Ultimately this is a topic that can't really be touched on more than this here, I was just curious if this was really such a hard-line stanch for you.

[Ionathus]

Still haven't been able to play the game but this recent discussion got me curious so I googled it...according to one interview, apparently the whole reason you even have customization options for genitals is because the team decided to make underwear a piece of equipment that you can swap out for new, better, higher-stats, potentially magical options later on.

The chainmail bikini/chainmail speedo has risen like a phoenix from the ashes!

[Jophiel]

I couldn't start yesterday (finally got my chance to see the Barbie movie!) but I am definitely diving in this weekend after work.

Ha, my wife wanted to see Barbie and so we did last night, also delaying my start (it's a good movie and I didn't mind seeing it; just amused to see someone else delayed for the same reason)

Solasta was fun and a good translation of 5e to a CRPG setting but also felt very much like a framework for future stuff than a fully realized world/campaign. I think that'll be the greatest difference here based on the little bit of BG3 I've played did far.

[Rising Phoenix]

Does that include their subclass? And how extensive is that? Shadowheart's deity is pretty core to her character, so I can't imagine that you could change her to be e.g. Light out of nowhere.

I believe so.

[GloatingSwine]

Still haven't been able to play the game but this recent discussion got me curious so I googled it...according to one interview, apparently the whole reason you even have customization options for genitals is because the team decided to make underwear a piece of equipment that you can swap out for new, better, higher-stats, potentially magical options later on.

The chainmail bikini/chainmail speedo has risen like a phoenix from the ashes!

Golden Pantaloons better be in there somewhere.

[Rodin]

I believe so.

When starting a new game you are locked to their actual origins., but apparently there is a respec NPC that will show up at some point.

However, this will not change their story arcs. You can make Gale a Barbarian who is dumber than rocks, but he's still going to be eloquent in conversation and have a Wizard based storyline. You can change Shadowheart to a different deity, but she's still going to talk about worshipping her canon one in all her dialogue.

[warty goblin]

Played the opening section this morning. It's good. I like the plethora of skill checks (wish the animation was faster) and the unhinged sorts of options that come up. The interface is pretty average, better than Pathfinder, not in the same galaxy as Solasta. The voice acting is great, the writing is fine, the combat is combat, it's all solid.

[Keltest]

You can rush the die rolling animation if you just click again. That will skip straight to the post-bonuses total.

[Psyren]

It's ludicrous to suggest they'd force everyone to be circumcised.

Ultimately this is a topic that can't really be touched on more than this here, I was just curious if this was really such a hard-line stanch for you.

It's a pretty... uh... unique reason to write off an RPG, I'll give him that.

When starting a new game you are locked to their actual origins., but apparently there is a respec NPC that will show up at some point.

However, this will not change their story arcs. You can make Gale a Barbarian who is dumber than rocks, but he's still going to be eloquent in conversation and have a Wizard based storyline. You can change Shadowheart to a different deity, but she's still going to talk about worshipping her canon one in all her dialogue.

That's deeply weird and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It made sense in Divinity which was functionally a classless system, and where the party members/origin characters are canonical polymaths for story reasons (e.g. Red Prince makes a point of flaunting his superior education on martial and mystical fronts.) But a game like this letting you transmute your party members completely with no connection to their personal stories is functionally like modding or editing the game files.

It would be like Dragon Age being able to change Varric into a mage or Solas into a chevalier or something.

[Dragonus45]

It's ludicrous to suggest they'd force everyone to be circumcised.

That's not at all what I meant but ok.

That's deeply weird and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It made sense in Divinity which was functionally a classless system, and where the party members/origin characters are canonical polymaths for story reasons (e.g. Red Prince makes a point of flaunting his superior education on martial and mystical fronts.) But a game like this letting you transmute your party members completely with no connection to their personal stories is functionally like modding or editing the game files.

It would be like Dragon Age being able to change Varric into a mage or Solas into a chevalier or something.

The game in general suffers from feeling like there is too much Choclate Divinity in the Peanutbutter of the D&D mechanics. Also I found a Soul Coin and I can only hope they handle the pure virulent evil of making any use of those things in the Forgotten Realms correctly but I expect disappointment.

[Batcathat]

That's deeply weird and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It made sense in Divinity which was functionally a classless system, and where the party members/origin characters are canonical polymaths for story reasons (e.g. Red Prince makes a point of flaunting his superior education on martial and mystical fronts.) But a game like this letting you transmute your party members completely with no connection to their personal stories is functionally like modding or editing the game files.

It would be like Dragon Age being able to change Varric into a mage or Solas into a chevalier or something.

Yeah, while I can't say for certain until I've tried it, I agree it feels pretty weird. Moving around something like skills a bit feels alright (though even that does stretch my suspension of disbelief) but completely changing (the mechanical part of) a character like that feels a bit much. Though I suppose I can just not do it if/when I play the game, so I guess it might be nice to have for those who don't mind using it.

[LaZodiac]

That's not at all what I meant but ok.

By all means do elaborate.

[Keltest]

It's a pretty... uh... unique reason to write off an RPG, I'll give him that.



That's deeply weird and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It made sense in Divinity which was functionally a classless system, and where the party members/origin characters are canonical polymaths for story reasons (e.g. Red Prince makes a point of flaunting his superior education on martial and mystical fronts.) But a game like this letting you transmute your party members completely with no connection to their personal stories is functionally like modding or editing the game files.

It would be like Dragon Age being able to change Varric into a mage or Solas into a chevalier or something.

I mean, it's an option. You are free not to take it if you don't want to. Personally I like that I can have Shadowheart as ie a rogue if I want to play a cleric.

[Errorname]

By all means do elaborate.

Or don't! We can absolutely talk about other things instead of this

I mean, it's an option. You are free not to take it if you don't want to. Personally I like that I can have Shadowheart as ie a rogue if I want to play a cleric.

Yeah, it's a gameplay feature that's nice to have even if it doesn't make story sense.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, it's a gameplay feature that's nice to have even if it doesn't make story sense.

Seems mostly there for either the super dedicated character optimizers, or else if you're gonna replay the game a lot.

Also this morning I pushed a wizard off a very tall ledge and they went splat. This is very satisfying, I absolutely love environmental interaction like this. 10/10, would shove to their doom again.

[Errorname]

This is a game where you can stack boxes on top of each other in order get a clean line of sight to teleport onto a roof, which is some immersive sim nonsense I never thought I'd see in a CRPG

[Rising Phoenix]

I just made it to act 2 for the first time...

The writing ranges from decent to good (and occasionally to great). Apart from some companions being too eager to get in your smallclothes they are all interesting. I was not expecting to like Lae'zel. But she's quickly becoming my favorite.

[Zombimode]

So, one and a half days of gaming in I have range of emotions regarding BG3 but for the most part I'm puzzled.

If you look online, for instance on youtube, you see nothing but glowing reviews. And not just "this game good" - no, we are talking in superlatives. "Masterpiece", "best RPG ever" and even really stupid stuff like "BG3 is setting the bar to high" or "other developers fear/are angry at BG3 for being too good".
User reviews on GoG and Steam are similar overwhelmingly positive.

What I'm puzzled about is: in which way does the game capture the fascination of so many reviewers and players? What are the aspects that are so great?

Lets go over a number of aspects that are usually important for a game like BG3. They are important to me, at least.
These conclusions are obviously informed by my own preferences and by what I have seen so far from the game.

Worldbuilding and lore.
There are games that are brimming with worldbuilding potential. Where you can feel the writers going "Ooh, ooh, I have this really cool setting here, please let me show it to you, PLEASE!".
Worlds full of history, concepts big and small, places, people, cultures, factions, religion. Games like Morrowind, Mass Effect and Tyranny.
BG3 doesn't do that. It picks some elements from the greater D&D lore and throws in some Realms references without elaborating on anything. Yes, I know what the Tears of Selune are. I know what Ilithids and Gith(yanki) are. And I know the history of these two races because another game spend a whole lot of effort in telling me 23 years ago.
It is not just a lack of exposition. From everything that I have seen so far I genuinely believe that there really is no rich and vibrant setting for me to explore in this game.

Characters - Comapanions and otherwise.
I agree with the above poster: Lae Zel is great. Easily my favorite companion so far. I like her intensity and her vivid descriptions. She is a fish out of the water and acts all high and mighty and arrogant but is actually rather humble and respectful. She has values and believes, some of them are strong, others are already cracking. There is subtlety in her character and conflict.
Sadly Lae Zel is the exception. Shadowwhatshername has the charisma and presence of a cardboard cut-out. And that's good! She's kinda just there without getting on my nerves. And that is more than what can be said about the rest of the team.
Gale, Asterion and Wyll all meld together where I have trouble telling them apart. I feel they are just variations of the same archetype: flamboyant, full of themselves, "witty" and oh-so-mysterious. And this archetype can be seen in many NPCs as well. So let's talk about non-companions characters.
The writing and acting of the NPCs is all over the place. Many are unremarkable. Then you get the ones of the archetype mentioned above. Others are surprisingly interesting, sensible or likable (the bard who has trouble composing a song, or the couple deliberating which tavern to visit in Baldur's Gate). More of those, please. Many act and sound like teenager. Less of those, please. Then we have the Oi-punk style parody goblins. Blech. They feel out of place for Faerun and I'm not a fan of the trope in general.
The tone straddles between serious and overt parody.

Character building.
It's 5e. You have some choices, some possibilities. You can do some character building. It's alright in what it offers. But simply by virtue of using 5e it is not outstanding compared to Original Sin 2 or Pathfinder.
In fact I get the impression that the game doesn't even want me to enact in the character building minigame. I had to watch a youtube video explaining how to multiclass because I did not find the button on my own. The button is easy to overlook and not advertised by the game at all. Races are little more then a cosmetic choice. And the real kicker: the game does not tell you class features of the classes! It only shows what you get from taking the level. But there is no class overview.

Combat and game mechanics.
It's 5e. You have your fail brigade because of the way too high reliance of the d20 spread (problems that other d20 games DO NOT have since D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder actually allow characters to be good at something). Character power is subdued. Larian does spice things up with adding some more actions and also environmental effects as seen in the Original Sin's. But not as complex or integrated into the rest of the game mechanics.
The combat encounters can be surprisingly punishing. There is some good and interesting stuff here. But I don't think it surpasses or even equals Larians previous work in Original Sin 2 or other games like the carefully constructed scenarios of an Expeditions: Rome.

Music.
Is entirely forgettable. Next.

Audio-visual design.
BG3 is a pretty looking game. The animations are a bit hit-and-miss but especially the environments are great. But there is no common style, no design-language binding things together.
Take Witcher 3 for instance. Also a pretty looking game, I would argue. But there is more to it. The music you hear in Velen is carefully composed. As is the palette, the way the sun glimpses through the trees, the sounds of the birds and the wind. Velen looks, sounds and feels miserable and desperate. Contrast this to Novigrad or Skellige. What the player sees and hears is used to create a specific atmosphere. That is audio-visual design.
BG3 doesn't do that. Things just exist. Music just plays. Sound effects are just there.


So. If it isn't the world building and lore, if its neither the characters, nor the character building, nor the combat and game mechanics, not the music or the whole audio-visual design - what IS then what makes BG3 a masterpiece?

This is not a rhetorical question. I really want to understand.

[GloatingSwine]

Worldbuilding and lore.
It is not just a lack of exposition. From everything that I have seen so far I genuinely believe that there really is no rich and vibrant setting for me to explore in this game.

TBH I think this is sort of a design feature of the Sword Coast.

It's supposed to be this big fuzzy area where most maps just say "here be adventures".

(I have a suspicion that they've saved a lot of meat for the city of Baldur's Gate itself.)

[Psyren]

Is it just me or did they forget to put in the Dodge action?

This is a game where you can stack boxes on top of each other in order get a clean line of sight to teleport onto a roof, which is some immersive sim nonsense I never thought I'd see in a CRPG

Now I feel old, because Ultima 7 let you do this 30 years ago

I mean, it's an option. You are free not to take it if you don't want to.

I know and I won't, that doesn't mean I can't also express my opinion on it.

Personally I like that I can have Shadowheart as ie a rogue if I want to play a cleric.

I'd have no problem with Shadowheart being a rogue - Shar has plenty or rogue followers.
In fact, I think that would have been a superior way to do this - each character has a small pool of alternate classes you can respec them as. For example, Shadowheart could be a Cleric, Rogue or Bard, while Gale could be a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock - that kind of thing.

[Zombimode]

Is it just me or did they forget to put in the Dodge action?

That and the Ready action is also missing.

And effect duration is relative to the recipient - NOT to the source.
To illustrate: Say we have the following initiative order
%Charname | Bandit Leader | Bandit 1 | Lae Zel | Wyll | Bandit 2 | Shadowheart

%Charname has Inquisitors Strike active which can Daze the target of a melee attack. The Daze effect has a 1 round duration. With how durations are implemented in BG 3 that means the Daze effect will end when the turn of the target ends!

If %Charname dazes the Bandit Leader or Bandit 1 none of the companions can actually capitalize the reduced defenses. Dazing Bandit 2 will at least allow Lae Zel and Wyll to attack the weakend bandit, while Shadowheart is out of luck in any scenario.

That HAS to be a bug. But it looks so intentional...

I'd have no problem with Shadowheart being a rogue - Shar has plenty or rogue followers.
In fact, I think that would have been a superior way to do this - each character has a small pool of alternate classes you can respec them as. For example, Shadowheart could be a Cleric, Rogue or Bard, while Gale could be a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock - that kind of thing.

Yes, that sound like a good solution.
Hm, am I imagining things or wasn't there a game that did just that? Pillars of Eternity 2, perchance?

TBH I think this is sort of a design feature of the Sword Coast.

It's supposed to be this big fuzzy area where most maps just say "here be adventures".

(I have a suspicion that they've saved a lot of meat for the city of Baldur's Gate itself.)

Maybe. But then again, consider the original Baldur's Gate. History, places, people, religion - all there. BG1 did provide a rich setting to explore. So no, the choice of region does not make worldbuilding impossible.

[Keltest]

The ready action is sufficiently open ended that they probably just couldn't feasibly put it in. You have to specify an action, and a trigger, and also spend your reaction. Thats an unbelievable amount of moving parts.

[GloatingSwine]

Maybe. But then again, consider the original Baldur's Gate. History, places, people, religion - all there. BG1 did provide a rich setting to explore. So no, the choice of region does not make worldbuilding impossible.

I'm not so sure about that.

BG1 didn't do a massive amount of worldbuilding beyond what was required for its immediate plot TBH. Like sure, you had all sorts of things to find around the maps but they were mostly just stuff that was there, it rarely had any wider meaning to the sword coast as a place. There were all sorts of different temples but they kinda didn't matter.

BG1 provided a packed world full of things to poke your nose into, but it very much expected fantasy tropes and intermittent cameos of FR characters to hold up the worldbuilding end.

BG2 does quite a bit more, and PS:T is dense with it, but BG1 not really.

[LaZodiac]

Seems mostly there for either the super dedicated character optimizers, or else if you're gonna replay the game a lot.

Also this morning I pushed a wizard off a very tall ledge and they went splat. This is very satisfying, I absolutely love environmental interaction like this. 10/10, would shove to their doom again.

Larian's always been good at that, and I've noticed as I've played that most encounters that are like, worth thinking about have stuff like this. It's not as extensive as OS2, but it doesn't have to be- sometimes you play a violin so hard it launches everyone five thousand feet through the air to their death and it rules.

That and the Ready action is also missing.

And effect duration is relative to the recipient - NOT to the source.

Maybe. But then again, consider the original Baldur's Gate. History, places, people, religion - all there. BG1 did provide a rich setting to explore. So no, the choice of region does not make worldbuilding impossible.

"Readying an action in case X trigger happens" is something that seems easy to program on the surface... but after playing through the EA version and seeing how long it took for them to make reactions that functioned in any reasonable capacity, I'm gonna say they probably just couldn't get that working. It's honestly better this way anyway.

I'm pretty sure for most of the stuff that happens for, that makes sense. Some are "until your next turn" but I feel like most effects in 5e aren't that?

Obviously to each their own on that front. I've found the world to be pretty rich and interesting. I've enjoyed reading the books, talking with NPCs (the tielfing children thieves den is adorable) and stuff. It's all been a good time, but to each their own.

Speaking of "to each their own", Lae'zel is a character who has been surprisingly grating on me. I don't hate it, but she has a bone to pick with me and I don't appreciate it... though I warmed up to her the instant she said Teeth-ling. Poor dumb green idiot. Shadowheart conversely is someone who was just, The Most Rude in the EA version, but has actually endeared herself quite well here (probably helps that I managed to save her from the Mind Flayer ship this time). While I understand the concerns of Asterion, Gale, and Wyll being potentialtly too similar... I feel like they're different enough that it works.

Astarion is the rich, pompous type, a noble who knows it- who is finally free to feel the sun again. He's better about hiding the fact that he's a vampire in the official release, too!

Gale is... someone I legiteimately never encountered in the EA version. Completely pased him by. He seems nice though, very irreverent- but not in an unkind way. Reminds me a **** ton of Anders from Dragon Age, orange tabby as a best friend and all. Exceptionally easy to impress, I don't think I've ever done a single thing to make him upset at me- though if he tries to eat my good gloves I might have to bop him.

Wyll, meanwhile, has a much more unique folksy, hero of the wilds tone to him. He's not as undeservedly pompous as Astarion, and not nearly as irreverent as Gale- he talks a good game that carries with it the experience of being a high level warlock who got kicked down to level 1 due to circumstances and has to cope about it. He's exceptionaly sylish and I love him and- oh dear he wants to kill the **** out of the tiefling berserker that I definitely intend to smooch uh oh.

Anyway I'm having a blast. I've playing as a Drow Bard- Azeroth the Tempest, Faerun's newest up and coming rock violinist. Unfortunately I'm lolth-bound because that's the subrace I made her in and when I tried doing the same in the other subrace the hair didn't look exactly right despite being the same god damn options which was weird- this is one of the only like, negatives I've had mechanics wise. On that note of mechanics; I love how the option menu shows visual comparisons for the graphical options. I'm **** at telling the difference because minor texture changes so seeing it laid out like that helps me a good deal.

Also at some point someone brought up feeling like race doesn't matter. Naw, it does. Each race gives you a variety of nice little bonus features, but otherwise doesn't limit your capabilities. You can be a gnome fighter if you want and that's okay- as well it should be, DND has always been really weird about race and the more they knock that down the better imho.