OOC II: DH The Purity of Sacrifice

[Bennosuke]

So, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do with Mind Scan while Ser Drimmle is unconscious. In a way, she can't resist him, but in a way he has no conscious thoughts to read. Regardless Banana, I want to remind you to make sure to check the agreed upon psychic power rules we discussed. Marcella's base TN should be 80, but Mind Scan has a Threshold of 23. She takes -10 for every 5 points the threshold is >10, which should drop her activation roll TN to 40. Furthermore, unless there is Errata to say otherwise, I see no overbleed rules, and after the activation roll it's contested WP, meaning Marcella is rolling at 55 not 75.

This should have lowered her rolls for psychic shriek as well, but I didn't catch this.

Anyways, I will give Marcella automatic success into Round 3, as to what Marcella is able to glean from a knocked out brain.

Also please give me an additional flat WP roll. Psychic rot roll (1d10)[8]

[BananaPhone]

So, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do with Mind Scan while Ser Drimmle is unconscious. In a way, she can't resist him, but in a way he has no conscious thoughts to read. Regardless Banana, I want to remind you to make sure to check the agreed upon psychic power rules we discussed. Marcella's base TN should be 80, but Mind Scan has a Threshold of 23. She takes -10 for every 5 points the threshold is >10, which should drop her activation roll TN to 40. Furthermore, unless there is Errata to say otherwise, I see no overbleed rules, and after the activation roll it's contested WP, meaning Marcella is rolling at 55 not 75.

This should have lowered her rolls for psychic shriek as well, but I didn't catch this.

Anyways, I will give Marcella automatic success into Round 3, as to what Marcella is able to glean from a knocked out brain.

Also please give me an additional flat WP roll. Psychic rot roll (1d100)[61]

A) I think for the 5 rounds, Round 2 is Surface Thoughts. So if he was unconscious, he'd have none of those. But if she got to Round 5, that's 'Soul Baring', so she could go through his unconscious mind and learn whatever she wanted, with the wording being "the Psyker may plunder the targets mind at will". That's just the way I see it anyway.

B) Ah, I already had. She's normally got a Target Number of 90, so when I've written TN 70 or 80, I've already accounted for what I thought was the reduction, per 5 Threshold after 10 is -10 to her TN roll, so something like Shriek with Threshold 18 is 1 full 5 above 10, so -10. Apologies, I'll take it as as 'rounding up' when it comes to incomplete numbers.

C) You're right there's no overbleed on Mind Scan, apologies, that's me being used to Domniate and Soul Killer and overlooking it.

That means an updated success on the 2 of those 8 mind scan rolls I made would look like:

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Mind Scan 3: (1d100)[26] vs TN 60
Round 1: (1d100)[40] vs TN 55 - 1 success.
Round 2: (1d100)[3] vs TN - 5 successes.
Round 3: (1d100)[28] vs TN - 2 successes.
Round 4: (1d100)[12] vs TN - 4 successes.
Round 5: (1d100)[41] vs TN - 1 succcess.

and

Mind Scan 8: (1d100)[11] vs TN 60
Round 1: (1d100)[21] vs TN 55 - 3 success.
Round 2: (1d100)[8] vs TN - 4 succcess.
Round 3: (1d100)[13] vs TN - 4 success.
Round 4: (1d100)[48] vs TN - 1 success.
Round 5: (1d100)[20] vs TN - 3 successes.

So assuming he doesn't beat her (with whatever penalties you deem fit for being unconscious), she'd still win all 5 rounds on two scans, the third and eighth.

Willpower roll: (1d100)[61] vs TN 55.

Looks like she's going up to 11 insanity points, becoming 'Unsettled' from this experience. This outing has been the first time she's killed anyone (Shriek) and now telepathically entered the broken, PTSD-riddled mind of a suicidal man.

I think I'll be spending 100-300 exp per exp rewards in the future to bring that down to a healthier 5 insanity, as she undergoes therapy with her mentor back at the Cathedral.

[rax]

Welp, looks like Drimmle is exactly as messed up as I suspected. I don't think a guy who's snapped as badly as he has is going to useful as an agent in the future. Making him disappear seems more and more like the most reasonable course of action to me.

[BananaPhone]

Sadly, that may be so.

[Bennosuke]

Bear with me here, and thank you for the patience.

A) I think for the 5 rounds, Round 2 is Surface Thoughts. So if he was unconscious, he'd have none of those. But if she got to Round 5, that's 'Soul Baring', so she could go through his unconscious mind and learn whatever she wanted, with the wording being "the Psyker may plunder the targets mind at will". That's just the way I see it anyway.

Yeah, I don't think there is a good or right answer here. I figured giving you access to the first three "rounds" was a fair trade, though maybe not the most perfect solution. I guess I could suggest that even in dreaming you have surface thoughts, they are just... about the dream? But that would get very existential/philosophical/scientific if we start asking what is consciousness ect. If you are alright with it, I think giving Marcella access to information as if she won the first three rounds is workable. If you aren't completely opposed to this solution, let me know what information Marcella is directly hoping to access.

B) Ah, I already had. She's normally got a Target Number of 90, so when I've written TN 70 or 80, I've already accounted for what I thought was the reduction, per 5 Threshold after 10 is -10 to her TN roll, so something like Shriek with Threshold 18 is 1 full 5 above 10, so -10. Apologies, I'll take it as as 'rounding up' when it comes to incomplete numbers.

No need to round up, as you wouldn't for other DH rules, such as using automatic fire. It just seemed that some of your TNs were off taking into account the new rules for psychic power activation. I know this has been a real headache, but I hope the rules as we have them are a little less broken, even if we still need a little more time to get used to them.

As above, I think we can skip contested rolls for Mind Scan and just assume Marcella "wins" the first three rounds.

Looks like she's going up to 11 insanity points, becoming 'Unsettled' from this experience. This outing has been the first time she's killed anyone (Shriek) and now telepathically entered the broken, PTSD-riddled mind of a suicidal man.

I think I'll be spending 100-300 exp per exp rewards in the future to bring that down to a healthier 5 insanity, as she undergoes therapy with her mentor back at the Cathedral.

Yeah, just barely missed that one. I've updated Marcella's character box with the insanity points. My understanding is that now that Marcella has gained her first 10 points, she needs to make a Trauma test per 234-235. Please roll WP +10. Failure would require rolling 1d100 for the mental trauma table, which you may as well roll just in case as well.

[BananaPhone]

Bear with me here, and thank you for the patience.

No worries mate. I chose a power (Telepathy) that's both amazing for a team of investigators but also probably the worst suited for a play-by-post game setting lol.

Yeah, I don't think there is a good or right answer here. I figured giving you access to the first three "rounds" was a fair trade, though maybe not the most perfect solution. I guess I could suggest that even in dreaming you have surface thoughts, they are just... about the dream? But that would get very existential/philosophical/scientific if we start asking what is consciousness ect. If you are alright with it, I think giving Marcella access to information as if she won the first three rounds is workable. If you aren't completely opposed to this solution, let me know what information Marcella is directly hoping to access.

Well, Round 2 is 'Surface Thoughts' and Round 3 is 'Short Term Memory', which includes:

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"Round 2 (Surface Thoughts)

Information: The Psyker investigates the thoughts which are uppermost in the target's mind, such as opinions on the Psyker, immediate fears, conscious lie, a single location, object, event or person which is significant to the target (such as a lover, personal hab block, treasured heirloom or cult initiation. ) It is not apparent why the significant thing is important--- Only the emotions associated with it. The target's Corruption Level is also apparent to the Psyker.

Round 3 (Short term Memory)

Information: The Psyker may rifle through the target's memories over the previous twelve hours, and may uncover two further significant locations, objects, events or persons. Again, it is not apparent why the significant thing is important---- only the key emotions associated with it. The Psyker may also dredge up passwords and routine behaviours from the target's mind (e.g. hab block entry code, habitual paths to work, bank ident numerals or frequently used Skills, talents and Characteristics)."

So at best, in accordance with the groups investigation, she could get a bunch of pass-words and bank details, but outside of that, nothing really useful to the group that they didn't already know.

Round 4 is 'Subconscious':

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"Information: The Psyker may gain detailed understanding of why significant locations, object, events or persons hold importance to the target, and how they relate to each other. The target's beliefs, motivations and personal goals are apparent to the Psyker, as are the target's immediate network of contacts. Complicated ciphers may be extracted from the target's mind, and the Psyker is aware of pivotal moments in the target's life (earliest memory, adolescence, coming of age and so on)."

Round 5 is 'Soul Baring':

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"Information: The Psyker may plunder the target's mind at will. Any information contained within the target's psyche is there for the Pysker to do with what he wishes. "

In his reduced ability to resist her telepathic intrusion due to being unconscious, and her passing both the test and 5 sets of opposed willpower rolls, Round 4 and 5 are where she'd end up.

With that said, I'm also sensing a slight apprehension, as on an OOC level, we don't want the game spoiled by Marc now discovering the entire plot of the game lol.

But on the other hand, she has made the rolls, passing a psych test and then 5 subsequent opposed willpower rolls (she's done that twice), and taking on 8 insanity points for her trouble and possibly getting a mental trauma, like she's kinda earned a big prize for the group.

So how about she learns a couple of big things/targets/chunks of info related to the investigation, with some past/life tidbits, and we mark the rest down as "his mind is too broken by this point"?

Like she learns almost everything about Casimmir that Drimmle knows (minus where his ship is coming in, as that's Arl/Wyns earned information), she learns about the new credit guild arrangement with the underhive gangers, and she learns about where he got the anti-psyker necklace/possible mechanus influence, and maybe some tidbits about Durchiss and Drimmles like whether Drimmle has 'tipped Durchiss off' or remained "loyal", a bit about his personal life etc?

Give or take, does that sound fair?

No need to round up, as you wouldn't for other DH rules, such as using automatic fire. It just seemed that some of your TNs were off taking into account the new rules for psychic power activation. I know this has been a real headache, but I hope the rules as we have them are a little less broken, even if we still need a little more time to get used to them.

All good, yeah as I mentioned, I chose probably the worst Discipline for a pbp game but the best for investigation lol.

Yeah, just barely missed that one. I've updated Marcella's character box with the insanity points. My understanding is that now that Marcella has gained her first 10 points, she needs to make a Trauma test per 234-235. Please roll WP +10. Failure would require rolling 1d100 for the mental trauma table, which you may as well roll just in case as well.

Willpower: (1d100)[3] vs TN 65

Trauma Table: (1d100)[21]

Phew.

[rax]

@Bennosuke

Are you waiting for me to describe Hound's actions in the security room and/or make some skill rolls? It's not entirely clear from the most recent IC post.

[BananaPhone]

I think I finally drove him mad lol.

[Haval]

He's at a conference this week, so he might be delayed. Don't think it's been mentioned in this game.

[Bennosuke]

Hey all. I am so so sorry for the delay. I am having computer issues while I am at a work conference. I will be home tomorrow, and will be able to post. Thank you for bearing with me here. This has been very frustrating and I am only able to get to a major backlog of work messages today.

Banana, I did see your PM and promise to get back to you. Sorry for not touching base yet to let you know about the issue.

[bramblefoot]

Hey all. I am so so sorry for the delay. I am having computer issues while I am at a work conference. I will be home tomorrow, and will be able to post. Thank you for bearing with me here. This has been very frustrating and I am only able to get to a major backlog of work messages today.

Banana, I did see your PM and promise to get back to you. Sorry for not touching base yet to let you know about the issue.

understood. personally, i feel my little trauma fit has passed, and i think im good to go

in case yall dont know, i take things real hard, even when i shouldnt

[Bennosuke]

Okay, thank you all for the patience with me here. Going to take each post one at a time, but as a heads up, tomorrow I will be driving all day so there will be no posts tomorrow. However there should be posts every day consistently through Friday.

Well, Round 2 is 'Surface Thoughts' and Round 3 is 'Short Term Memory', which includes... So at best, in accordance with the groups investigation, she could get a bunch of pass-words and bank details, but outside of that, nothing really useful to the group that they didn't already know.

I would suggest there is a lot more useful information you can gather with round 3 if you think a little more broadly. Especially assuming the group finds the information Drimmle has provided as being satisfactory, as I alluded to it being IC, there is probably a lot they can figure out/confirm/rule out.

-Is the information Drimmle provided accurate? Has he withheld anything? Has he gone to his boss?

All sorts of information that would otherwise not be available to the group, especially if they kill Drimmle, or he refuses to cooperate further.

That said, I think I am going to put my foot down here in regards to the ruling on how to use this power with knocked out or sleeping characters. This also protects just rolling over and over till you get as many successes as possible, since a sleeping character isn't going to break contact ect. This basically prevents Marcella from being able to find out anything she wants from anyone, if she catches them asleep, or knocks them out first.

Willpower: (1d100)[3] vs TN 65

Trauma Table: (1d100)[21]

Phew.

Marcella passes the Trauma test without any ill effect.

@Bennosuke

Are you waiting for me to describe Hound's actions in the security room and/or make some skill rolls? It's not entirely clear from the most recent IC post.

That is correct. I didn't want to make any assumptions about just what exactly Hound was going to do once he got to the security room, as I have had players make it clear they are opposed to that. If you would state clearly what Hound is going to do, I will let you know if you need any rolls, though they will likely be at a favorable modifier given Hound has seen how the security system works before.

@All: Thank you all again for your patience. To be clear, the delay had nothing to do with burnout, or players, or anything personal. I simply brought my laptop to the conference, and it wasn't working. I was very very stressed, because it meant I was leaving a lot of patient messages and the like unattended. Fortunately, not a problem now that I am home.

[BananaPhone]

Okay, thank you all for the patience with me here. Going to take each post one at a time, but as a heads up, tomorrow I will be driving all day so there will be no posts tomorrow. However there should be posts every day consistently through Friday.

I would suggest there is a lot more useful information you can gather with round 3 if you think a little more broadly. Especially assuming the group finds the information Drimmle has provided as being satisfactory, as I alluded to it being IC, there is probably a lot they can figure out/confirm/rule out.

-Is the information Drimmle provided accurate? Has he withheld anything? Has he gone to his boss?

All sorts of information that would otherwise not be available to the group, especially if they kill Drimmle, or he refuses to cooperate further.

That said, I think I am going to put my foot down here in regards to the ruling on how to use this power with knocked out or sleeping characters. This also protects just rolling over and over till you get as many successes as possible, since a sleeping character isn't going to break contact ect. This basically prevents Marcella from being able to find out anything she wants from anyone, if she catches them asleep, or knocks them out first.

No worries Ben, that sounds like a pretty stressful situation honestly and I reckon your patients take priority over imaginary pixels hah.

I think I see where the wires in communications are getting crossed. I think you're interpreting my assumption that because someone is unconscious, they can't resist Marc's Mind Scan, thus giving her auto-5 round wins as long as she can roll them, yes? If that's the case, complete apologies, as that wasn't my intention. I thought that knocking the guy unconscious might grant a penalty to his willpower roll during the 'Opposed Willpower' round by round part of the power (like -10 or something), but the main reason for putting him under is to restrain him so he can't physically resist or go anywhere.

So when I rolled those 8 mind scan attempts, I drew 2 of them out (attempt 3 and 8) because they a) passed the casting roll and b) had 5 continuous rounds where Marc achieved 1+ success on an Opposed Willpower roll. Rolling all those attempts just represents her taking as long as she needed to really drill down through his mental defences until she gets everything she wants.

It was my assumption that Drimmle would then roll 2x 5 rounds worth of willpower rolls to resist it, and we'd just re-roll any instance of stalemates.

Does this clear things up or have I read the situation incorrectly?

[Bennosuke]

I think I see where the wires in communications are getting crossed. I think you're interpreting my assumption that because someone is unconscious, they can't resist Marc's Mind Scan, thus giving her auto-5 round wins as long as she can roll them, yes? If that's the case, complete apologies, as that wasn't my intention. I thought that knocking the guy unconscious might grant a penalty to his willpower roll during the 'Opposed Willpower' round by round part of the power (like -10 or something), but the main reason for putting him under is to restrain him so he can't physically resist or go anywhere.

So when I rolled those 8 mind scan attempts, I drew 2 of them out (attempt 3 and 8) because they a) passed the casting roll and b) had 5 continuous rounds where Marc achieved 1+ success on an Opposed Willpower roll. Rolling all those attempts just represents her taking as long as she needed to really drill down through his mental defences until she gets everything she wants.

It was my assumption that Drimmle would then roll 2x 5 rounds worth of willpower rolls to resist it, and we'd just re-roll any instance of stalemates.

Does this clear things up or have I read the situation incorrectly?

That was honestly not where the miscommunication was . I saw your rolls, but as I explained previously, was suggesting an alternative way to go about things given he was unconscious. My suggestion was that because it wouldn't make much sense for him to be able to resist the mind scan while unconscious, but he because his brain would be in an altered state mentation, that we would forgo all rolls (both for success and resistance) and just say Marcella has access to the first three levels. As stated before, this would also prevent a situation where Marcella can just keep reattempting the power until she gets as many successes as possible, with Drimmle failing as many as possible to optimize her outcome, since he is unconscious and can't break the contact.

So again, my solution to this situation is that Marcella has access to the first three levels despite/without her rolls, but without Drimmle being able to contest. In a way, going forward, this still makes Mind Scanning an unconscious NPC very useful, as it at least provides some degree of automatic success.

I think we are waiting for Marcella's questions now about what information she is hoping to obtain, so that we can move on.

[BananaPhone]

Ahh, no worries then. Yeah, I thought it might be a miscommunication, because the power doesn't mention the state of concsiousness of the target and so this seemed like a sudden limitation, one that she still had to pay the full insanity points for. Just so my intentions were clear, I wasn't hoping for an 'auto-win', and with rolling a bunch of attempts at once I was, ironically, trying to speed the game up. (can you imagine going back and forth rolling each individual opposed willpower roll with our posting rate? We'd be here until the Second Coming)

But if that's the ruling going forth I'll accept that. So if she tries Mind Scan on an unconscious target, there is no need for opposed willpower rolls but she can only go down to "3 rounds" of info gathered?

With full access to the subconscious/short term memory of the past 12 hours and important people/locations etc, Marc will "ask" the following questions:

1) Are the documents Drimmle just handed over legitimate, are there any omissions (and what are they) and are there any falsehoods (and what are they)?

2) What is his current relationship with Druchiss, does Durchiss suspect him, has he avoided suspicion etc?

3) How many Star Guards are there exactly and what security protocols are there in place? Eg, if he texts or calls them and says a certain phrase, what's code for "I'm in trouble, come now" or "all clear" etc and what's the "phone number" to their leader that the group can use to send this all clear signal to them?

4) What's his relationship with Trask and Shriek? They're mutants; where did they come from, how did he get access to them?

5) Where did the anti-psyker necklace come from or who gave it to him?

6) What does he know about the sudden Tora/Sabbay alliance that's blinded the Raptore in the underhive? Was there another Credit Guilder team sent down?

7) What are the codes to places in his home like his security doors, computer passwords, safe codes etc and are there any hidden stashes about his house?



And that's about as much as I can think of that might be floating around his subconsciousness and/or that he's thought about in the past 12 hours. Like (5), thoughts of where he got the necklace or who he got it from, might move through his head when he put it on in prep for the team coming through the front door etc.

[BananaPhone]

Tell you what though, if we make it back to our HQ in one piece, the exp gains from this works outing is going to be nuts lol.

[Bennosuke]

Yeah, the fact that you all survived this is silly enough. I think the Emperor smiled on some people's rolls.

It looks like the PCs are still discussing.

[Bennosuke]

I guess I'll roll WP here to see how quickly Drimmle comes to... (1d100)[24]

[Bennosuke]

Rolling Fellowship for Drim (1d100)[99]

[BananaPhone]

Did he fail the Deceive roll:
A) To deceive his agents who now think he is under duress and are coming.
B) To deceive Marc that he was being genuine but was talking in secret code to them (that she'd know about because of mind-woo stuff from earlier)

I'm guessing it's A).

[BananaPhone]

So guys, what's the party vote?

1) We take up positions and prepare for a semi-ambush. Marc can spend a few rounds psychic screaming the group while Hound, Orla, Arl and Milo stick guns in faces and coerce surrenders. We'll need to quickly lock/change the code/bar the security door entrance, and prepare for the Star Force guys to try to enter the house from multiple entrances. It'd be great if they lemming-trained through the front door, but that's doubtful.

2) We gather our stuff, tell Drimmle we'll be in contact and vamoose. We've got a few minutes to leave, get in one of those cars and leg it.

3) Third option?

[Haval]

It may be that more combat at this point is just going to attract more notice from anyone in earshot. I'm not sure if it'll be that easy to slip away though.

At this point Orla is mostly interested in not being surprised so she'll take direction.

[Bennosuke]

Did he fail the Deceive roll:
A) To deceive his agents who now think he is under duress and are coming.
B) To deceive Marc that he was being genuine but was talking in secret code to them (that she'd know about because of mind-woo stuff from earlier)

I'm guessing it's A).

The "fellowship" roll above was the deceive roll, and yeah, he didn't do well with it . It was A.

@Haval: The security force will be arriving shortly. I know Orla is on point waiting for them.

[BananaPhone]

The "fellowship" roll above was the deceive roll, and yeah, he didn't do well with it . It was A.

@Haval: The security force will be arriving shortly. I know Orla is on point waiting for them.

Figures he'd roll poorly when it was time to help us lol.

[Bennosuke]

I think you can just count that as me rolling poorly in general in this game. I (and thus he... and his co-NPCs) rolled terribly during combat. It went from "you all might die now", to "well that wasn't so bad" pretty darn quickly.

[Wyndeward]

I think you can just count that as me rolling poorly in general in this game. I (and thus he... and his co-NPCs) rolled terribly during combat. It went from "you all might die now", to "well that wasn't so bad" pretty darn quickly.

Well, it *is* in an NPC's job description to die valiantly in furtherance of the plot...

[Haval]

Yeah, just to show I'm paying attention

[BananaPhone]

Looks like we're taking up positions.

I'll wait for Rax/Bramble to post before doing so myself.