Ahsoka

[Infernally Clay]

New episode stuff:

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I do like the fact they took the episode to complicate things.

Shin wasn't happy about screwing Sabine over, Baylan is only working with Elsbeth because he believes the folklore about the planet is true and something is on it that he wants (although he's being coy about what it is or how it'll end the cycle of good guys win, bad guys win, good guys win, bad guys win ad infinitum), Ahsoka doesn't seem to blame Sabine for her choice and believes she was fated to make it and yet Sabine refused to tell Ezra what's going on... All these things could have very interesting consequences for the rest of the season and with only two episodes left I'm not sure they're leaving this planet any time soon.

Possibly the most interesting thing going on is the tension between Thrawn and Elsbeth. They don't quite seem to see eye to eye. Thrawn is only using the witches of Dathomir to get home, but it's quite possible he is the one being used. As Baylan asked, what is it they're running from? Is there something in this galaxy that the witches of Dathomir desperately want to escape and until now Thrawn was their only ticket out?

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: One detail

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Is the rest of the Seventh Fleet there too? Or is it just the Chimaera? If Thrawn is truly stranded out there, how did Pellaeon come back?

[Infernally Clay]

Spoiler: One detail

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Is the rest of the Seventh Fleet there too? Or is it just the Chimaera? If Thrawn is truly stranded out there, how did Pellaeon come back?

Unless I’m mistaken…

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Only Thrawn’s ship got dragged by the purrgil. The rest of the fleet was destroyed.

[Fyraltari]

Unless I’m mistaken…

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Only Thrawn’s ship got dragged by the purrgil. The rest of the fleet was destroyed.

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The way the seventh fleet suddenly disappeared implies they had all the same treatment.

[Talakeal]

This was the first episode of this series I actually enjoyed.

It really leans into the "space fantasy" that has been missing from a lot of modern Star Wars.

Also, we get a Book of Boba Fett style episode without the titular character in it except for a bit in the intro.

[ecarden]

Generally enjoyed it and really glad we get to see Thrawn for more than the expected 30 second post-credits. Definitely significant changes since the last time we saw him, I'll be interested to see how that works out.

But

Spoiler: Baylin

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Baylin's motive makes a lot of meta-narrative sense, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes in universe at this point? Like, we're pre-ST, pre-First and Final Order and pre-Palpatine returning. So the sequence he see is 'there was a bunch of bull**** a thousand years ago, we won for a thousand years, then Palpatine managed to take over for a couple of decades, now he's dead and we're rebuilding. Like, what's this repeating cycle that he wants to break? If that's the cycle, it's a better one than any other society can possibly manage!

[Ramza00]

Generally enjoyed it and really glad we get to see Thrawn for more than the expected 30 second post-credits. Definitely significant changes since the last time we saw him, I'll be interested to see how that works out.

But

Spoiler: Baylin

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Baylin's motive makes a lot of meta-narrative sense, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes in universe at this point? Like, we're pre-ST, pre-First and Final Order and pre-Palpatine returning. So the sequence he see is 'there was a bunch of bull**** a thousand years ago, we won for a thousand years, then Palpatine managed to take over for a couple of decades, now he's dead and we're rebuilding. Like, what's this repeating cycle that he wants to break? If that's the cycle, it's a better one than any other society can possibly manage!

Baylin and his motivation

Spoiler: Motivation

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Could it be PTSD? In psychoanalysis before we used the word PTSD, we had a term coined in 1920s called repetition compulsion, which is a symptom of PTSD but also a symptom of other forms of trauma (a more general principle)

A repetition compulsion is when one thinks in cycles, or circular reasoning, and one aspect is you are going to do it correctly or return to the origin of things and going to escape the cycle. Well a therapist can see lots of unspoken assumptions are being imputed into the storytelling the patient is telling, and it is often recreating a past experience, but some details changes, where it is going to be better [or sometimes even worse] and those changes allow the patient to lower the tension and feel a sense of agency and control.

Thus I am saying if you have trauma with a Sith and Jedi war, then everything about your experience with encountering the world recreates verbs and nouns inherited from that previous conflict, even if you turn them on the head someway. Like becoming a grey Jedi is still thinking in Jedi and Sith instead of different categories.

Likewise Baylin is underestimating Eren Yeager^{oops I slipped} Ezra Bridger for Ezra is a wilderness trained Jedi and Baylin has no expectation either positive or negative to measure Ezra’s potential. Of course Thrawn does a parallel but opposite thing, where he realise he has no expectation and experience with Ahsoka and he is not going to underestimate her, even though she may be a ghost and a figment of his imagination.

=====

So what I am saying this is a fairy tale and Baylin may awaken some secret knowledge, weapon, person, spirit, etc. Or it may just be Baylin wishing for an end of the cycle for he has his own trauma.

[I went long so I am dropping this^{half lying here}, but with repetition compulsion, the same theorist who named it in 1920 figured it out via watching his grandson play with toys as a toddler, and he later connected it to PTSD soldiers after World War 1. Playing with toys and fairy tales help toddlers, kids, and adults cope but also learning to escape past traumas by creating new stories, even if when we are most anxious we do not create new stories but instead try to reforged and reassemble old stories. So we do both I am saying.]

[Palanan]

So about the new category of Jedi this episode apparently created:

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I didn’t catch it the first time Baylan used the term, but he described Ezra as one of the “Bokken Jedi,” referring to young Jedi trained in the wild after the temple was destroyed. He specifically excluded Shin, since he was training her to be “something more” than just a Jedi.

To me, a bokken is a wooden practice blade, so I’m wondering how Baylan meant the term. Does he mean that “Bokken Jedi” aren’t real Jedi, because they didn’t come up in the temple like he did? That seems a bit snobbish, especially given his rejection of the Jedi temple and its philosophy.



On a related note, I loved this from him:

“I miss…the idea of the Jedi. Not the truth. The weakness.”

It feels like the defining Baylan quote.

Also:

Originally Posted by Infernally Clay

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Is there something in this galaxy that the witches of Dathomir desperately want to escape…?

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That’s been pretty strongly hinted in this episode, with Baylan suggesting the witches are trying to flee a power greater than their own. Presumably this power will be following Thrawn et al. back to the OG GFFA and causing great havoc, which will mysteriously never be mentioned again.

[Infernally Clay]

As far as Baylan (not Baylon or Baylin ) is concerned…

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I actually genuinely believe there is something on Peridea that the Nightsisters, and Thrawn, are trying to escape from. Baylan hasn’t, thus far, proven to be unreliable or idealistic and he said he could feel something so I believe him, but the main reason why I believe Baylan is simply because that Star Destroyer of Thrawn’s can’t make it back to the main galaxy. The Imperial remnants that Thrawn will rally under his banner already have vast military resources, so they hardly need a patchwork Star Destroyer with what seems to be an army of undead Stormtroopers.

Yet Ahsoka, Sabine and Ezra cannot take out such an army by themselves even if Baylan and Shin defect to their side (which seems somewhat likely given Thrawn is more than happy to leave them to die), so it makes a lot of sense that some mysterious entity on Peridea - perhaps something that lives off a diet of space whales or some ancient and terrible Force spirit - will destroy the Star Destroyer and force Thrawn and Elsbeth to flee back to the main galaxy on the Eye of Sion, leaving our heroes wondering how exactly they’re going to get back to the main galaxy themselves when it’s a one way trip for the space whales.

[Fyraltari]

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To me, a bokken is a wooden practice blade, so I’m wondering how Baylan meant the term. Does he mean that “Bokken Jedi” aren’t real Jedi, because they didn’t come up in the temple like he did? That seems a bit snobbish, especially given his rejection of the Jedi temple and its philosophy.

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He probably meant it in terms of being trained for combat.

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I actually genuinely believe there is something on Peridea that the Nightsisters, and Thrawn, are trying to escape from. Baylan hasn’t, thus far, proven to be unreliable or idealistic and he said he could feel something so I believe him, but the main reason why I believe Baylan is simply because that Star Destroyer of Thrawn’s can’t make it back to the main galaxy. The Imperial remnants that Thrawn will rally under his banner already have vast military resources, so they hardly need a patchwork Star Destroyer with what seems to be an army of undead Stormtroopers.

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I think the Eye is designed to accomodate the Chimera, just like normal hyperspace rings surrounded Jedi fighters.

Also, you're forgetting whatever it is that Thrawn's troops will spend three days loading from the witches' fortress.

[Mechalich]

Generally enjoyed it and really glad we get to see Thrawn for more than the expected 30 second post-credits. Definitely significant changes since the last time we saw him, I'll be interested to see how that works out.

But

Spoiler: Baylin

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Baylin's motive makes a lot of meta-narrative sense, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes in universe at this point? Like, we're pre-ST, pre-First and Final Order and pre-Palpatine returning. So the sequence he see is 'there was a bunch of bull**** a thousand years ago, we won for a thousand years, then Palpatine managed to take over for a couple of decades, now he's dead and we're rebuilding. Like, what's this repeating cycle that he wants to break? If that's the cycle, it's a better one than any other society can possibly manage!

Spoiler: cycles

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Disney canon history broadly preserves the contours of Legends canon history. That means there's a cyclical process going back to at least the Hundred-Year Darkness (which has been confirmed ported over to Disney canon), five thousand years in the past. The basic cycle is that the Sith rise, they inspire the frontier to fight against the Core, the Jedi rally the Core and win but don't solve the fundamental economic and social problems that caused the conflict in the first place, and a few centuries later the Sith reemerge and the process repeats. The sequence is in fact quite accurate. The post-Ruusan peace period from 1000 BBY to 200 BBY is the longest peace period in Star Wars history and only happened because Darth Bane created a scheme to try and break the cycle to the advantage of the Sith (a scheme that, mostly, worked). The nature of the Force itself, in which the champions of the Light grow stronger the more desperate the situation becomes but weaken in the absence of an obvious enemy, also foster this cycle. Complete victory, bringing 'balance to the Force' is nearly impossible. Darth Bane, who knew this, developed an extremely convoluted approach that Palpatine ultimately implemented and it still didn't take.

"The empire, long divided, must unite, long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been." - these are the famous opening lines of the Mao edition of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Despite being written in 1679, they describe the cycle of Star Wars history perfectly.

That's what Baylan Skoll is objecting too. Also, it's not like he's not in good company. Attempts to 'break the cycle' by doing something fundamental and drastic to the universe itself have a long history throughout the Star Wars EU, including such notable characters as Kreia from KOTOR II.

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That’s been pretty strongly hinted in this episode, with Baylan suggesting the witches are trying to flee a power greater than their own. Presumably this power will be following Thrawn et al. back to the OG GFFA and causing great havoc, which will mysteriously never be mentioned again.

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Said power could be the disembodied spirit of Emperor Palpatine. That's maybe a bit too on the nose, but...

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Also, you're forgetting whatever it is that Thrawn's troops will spend three days loading from the witches' fortress.

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We see the troopers conducting the loading in the episode. They are very clearly loading hundreds or thousands of coffin-like objects. These almost certainly contain either living (in some kind of stasis) or dead Dathomirians. Since death doesn't prevent Dathomirians from fighting, either way this is a Force-capable army of considerable size.

[Infernally Clay]

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Said power could be the disembodied spirit of Emperor Palpatine. That's maybe a bit too on the nose, but...

Please, no... D:

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The last thing we need is to find out Peridea is known to the Sith as Exegol and Thrawn was commanded by the spirit of Palpatine bound there to return to the other galaxy and prepare it for his imminent arrival, but when the Imperial remnants lose to the New Republic in a few years they flee to Peridea and become the First Order.

That would be so on the nose it'd look like a second nose.

[Sapphire Guard]

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Thrawn: Now remember, everyone, we only get one chance to make a first impression, so I need everyone to stand around at parade rest and line my path, and I need you to dramatically chant my name while I'm walking up.

Aaagh, they're doing the endless cycle meta nonsense. It's the lazy copout for writers that want to complain about not doijng new stuff instead of exerting themselves to actually do something new.

And apparently Baylen never told his apprentice any of his motivations until now?

Did we really need the extended scene of Sabine bonding with her mount? It doesn't look right, it switches from dog mannerisms when she's walking to horse mannerisms when she's riding.

And even in universe now, they're actively avoiding talking about relevant stuff.

[runeghost]

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Said power could be the disembodied spirit of Emperor Palpatine. That's maybe a bit too on the nose, but...

But wait! What if, in a move hearkening back to both "cycles" and Star Wars extended media, it's actually...

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The Sith Emperor, who has a new body after being defeated by our heroes, and now, from his remote refuge beyond the galaxy, has returned to crush everyone with a massive and unexpected armada?!?

Oh, yeah, that's the plot of the Star Wars The Old Republic MMO Expansion Knights of the Fallen Empire. And yeah, Bioware did it in 2015, four years before Rise of Skywalker.

[runeghost]

Ok. So Filoni didn't want Anakin to have a padawan, and Lucas though he should (and presumably Lucas won that argument).

Um... Was it a bad change? I actually think it was a great idea, which allows for the audience to view both the war and its effect on Anakin (presumably the two primary objectives here), through the eyes of another character, while having a perfect justification for why that character would be there the whole time in the first place. I mean, if not a padwan, you'd have to create another character or characters anyway, and then justify why they were basically following Anakin around through the entire war.

So, IMO, this was executive meddling that actually greatly improved the resulting product.

I recall seeing a "behind-the-scenes" somewhere recently where Filoni talks about how Ahsoka was originally designed to be Plo Koon's apprentice for a Plo-focused episode or two, and Lucas looked at the idea and went "she's Anakin's apprentice".

[Ramza00]

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Thrawn: Now remember, everyone, we only get one chance to make a first impression, so I need everyone to stand around at parade rest and line my path, and I need you to dramatically chant my name while I'm walking up.

Aaagh, they're doing the endless cycle meta nonsense. It's the lazy copout for writers that want to complain about not doijng new stuff instead of exerting themselves to actually do something new.

And apparently Baylen never told his apprentice any of his motivations until now?

Did we really need the extended scene of Sabine bonding with her mount? It doesn't look right, it switches from dog mannerisms when she's walking to horse mannerisms when she's riding.

And even in universe now, they're actively avoiding talking about relevant stuff.

I repeat they could also be subverting it as well

Spoiler: Cycles

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We literally have three crones as Nightsister Mothers, who read fate, prophecies, and think in cycles.

Literally here are the Star Wars names and compare it to Greek Myth names

• Aktropaw (Star Wars name) JERYL PRESCOTT GALLIEN aka Greek’s Atropos (Inflexible), make sure to sound it out and not look at the bad spelling
• Klothow (Star Wars name) CLAUDIA BLACK aka Greek’s Clotho (Spinner)
• Lakesis (Star Wars name) JANE EDWINA SEYMOUR aka Greek’s Lachesis (Allotter)

So we are SO doing the thing or we are subverting the thing.

I repeat Claudia Black, the actress, is the middle Nightsister Mother who does the talking.

I recall seeing a "behind-the-scenes" somewhere recently where Filoni talks about how Ahsoka was originally designed to be Plo Koon's apprentice for a Plo-focused episode or two, and Lucas looked at the idea and went "she's Anakin's apprentice".

Lucas doing a meme before the show that inspired the meme

George: I didn't understand why people care so much about [Ahsoka] till I got a [Jedi Padawan] myself. I've only had [Ahsoka] for a day and a half, but if anything happened to [her], I would kill [this entire franchise]

[gbaji]

Spoiler: Motivation

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Of course Thrawn does a parallel but opposite thing, where he realise he has no expectation and experience with Ahsoka and he is not going to underestimate her, even though she may be a ghost and a figment of his imagination.

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I really liked that bit with Thrawn. It showcased how his mind works. He doesn't know if it's Ahsoka coming, but will examine the possiblity and prepare for it anyway. It's very much how Thrawn was presented in the books. Considers everything, takes in all information possible, figures out how his opponent will think based on who the opponent is, and then counters it.

One bit that I thought about immediately after that, though. How many people actually know that Anakin became Vader? Because my first thought was about how well Thrawn was prepping for Ahsoka. But they specifically included "who her master was" in the list of questions Thrawn wanted answers to. Which immediately made me think that he's likely going to drastically mischaracterize Ahsoka if he's assessing her likely actions based on what he knows about Anakin, if he has no clue that Anakin was also Vader. For someone like Thrawn, and how he thinks, missing that key bit of information may cause him to make assumptions about how Ahsoka will react in various situations which are not remotely accurate.

How "in the know" was he in this regard? I just found the inclusion of that specific question to be interesting. I suspect it'll have some significance in the future. Could be as simple as he knows who Vader was, but no one else does, so he uses that information to his advantage. Or, could be that he doesn't know, and he misses something as a result. Could go either way.

Yeah. I kinda agree on the whole "end the cycle" bit as a probable motivation for Baylin. It fits with his history, and makes sense. No clue how they actually move foward though, or what may be on the planet that he thinks will help with this.

I recall seeing a "behind-the-scenes" somewhere recently where Filoni talks about how Ahsoka was originally designed to be Plo Koon's apprentice for a Plo-focused episode or two, and Lucas looked at the idea and went "she's Anakin's apprentice".

Which I still think is just good instincts on the part of Lucas there. If he saw this early plan, and immediately thought "she needs to be Anakin's padawan", then IMO, he was absolutely correct. She's much more interesting as a character as Anakin's padawan, then someone else's. And IMO, it absolutely pays of dividends when extended into later stories (like this one). It would be enough just to be a survivor of the Clone Wars and Order 66. But to also have been the apprentice to Vader? Sheesh. Talk about serious baggage there.

That's not to say that they've executed on that background well since then. But the initial concept change? Definitely for the better IMO.

[Ramza00]

Spoiler: Anakin

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Very few people knew Anakin later became Vader. I am not going to make a list but it is very small.

Hell Ahsoka did not even knew Vader was Anakin till they fought on the Sith Temple and she almost died. (Before that for the entire season 2, she was haunted by herself thinking she betrayed Anakin, and lost all knowledge of him, and then she was haunted by force meditation / dreams. And before that episode she knew Anakin and Vader were linked for she reached out with the force when Vader was chasing her as a tie fighter pilot also in Season 2.)

This possibility was made possible with the fact Palpatine named Anakin Darth Vader after Mace Windu’s death, then the Jedi Temple Youngling attack, then Obi Wan burned Anakin on the Volcano planet Mustafar. Thus the only people who know are force sensitives who can see Vader behind the veil, people who participated with the Jedi Temple act, and that is pretty much it.

[ecarden]

Spoiler: Anakin

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Very few people knew Anakin later became Vader. I am not going to make a list but it is very small.

Hell Ahsoka did not even knew Vader was Anakin till they fought on the Sith Temple and she almost died. (Before that for the entire season 2, she was haunted by herself thinking she betrayed Anakin, and lost all knowledge of him, and then she was haunted by force meditation / dreams. And before that episode she knew Anakin and Vader were linked for she reached out with the force when Vader was chasing her as a tie fighter pilot also in Season 2.)

This possibility was made possible with the fact Palpatine named Anakin Darth Vader after Mace Windu’s death, then the Jedi Temple Youngling attack, then Obi Wan burned Anakin on the Volcano planet Mustafar. Thus the only people who know are force sensitives who can see Vader behind the veil, people who participated with the Jedi Temple act, and that is pretty much it.

I believe it may have been

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mentioned in the Thrawn series that he'd figured it out? In that series, he directly works with Anakin and Vader for a fairly extended period. I have some recollection that he figured it out, or at least suspected.

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: Anakin

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Very few people knew Anakin later became Vader. I am not going to make a list but it is very small.

Hell Ahsoka did not even knew Vader was Anakin till they fought on the Sith Temple and she almost died. (Before that for the entire season 2, she was haunted by herself thinking she betrayed Anakin, and lost all knowledge of him, and then she was haunted by force meditation / dreams. And before that episode she knew Anakin and Vader were linked for she reached out with the force when Vader was chasing her as a tie fighter pilot also in Season 2.)

This possibility was made possible with the fact Palpatine named Anakin Darth Vader after Mace Windu’s death, then the Jedi Temple Youngling attack, then Obi Wan burned Anakin on the Volcano planet Mustafar. Thus the only people who know are force sensitives who can see Vader behind the veil, people who participated with the Jedi Temple act, and that is pretty much it.

The number of people who know is tiny, but the number of people who can use deductive reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that Anakin is probably Vader is much higher.

First, it is known the Vader is a former Jedi. Tarkin confirms this in ANH. Second, it is known that Vader is a white human male, because this can be observed. Numerous Imperial officers have seen the mangled portion of Vader's upper face as he exits his protective chamber, something General Veers does in ESB. Third, Vader is a master lightsaber duelist, easily in the top 1% of combatants in the Jedi Order. Fourth, the overwhelming majority of the people who match these criteria are confirmed as deceased by strong evidence. For example, Master Cin Drallig, the Jedi Obi-Wan watches Anakin kill in the holorecordings of the assault on the Jedi Temple, is a white human male master duelist, but he clearly falls into the 'definitely deceased' category.

Somewhat ironically, the person who best fits the Vader criteria other than Anakin is Obi-Wan. There are less than ten, probably less than five, other people who could plausibly be Vader.

It is highly likely that certain highly placed Imperial Officers, most notably Tarkin and Yularen - who both knew both Anakin and Vader and are in a position to pick up on references and verbal ticks - figured out who Vader really was.

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As for Thrawn, it's marginally less likely, because while he knew Vader, he never met Anakin Skywalker and lacks that point of comparison. Nevertheless, it's quite possible that he squeezed that information out of Tarkin or Yularen at some point. I think, from the perspective of the show, it's quite reasonable of Filoni to go either way on the issue. For example, if Thrawn responded to Ahsoka revealing that Anakin was Vader with something like 'of course he was, it was rather obvious' I wouldn't find that problematic at all.

[Zevox]

Guess I'm going to be the debbie downer on the episode.

Spoiler: Ep 6

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As soon as they told us the planet they arrived at was the Dathomiri homeworld, I wanted to slam my head into my desk. What the hells is the point of further retconing the Witches of Dathomir to be from another friggin' galaxy? Especially when they're such a human species, it makes no sense, and I utterly despise it.

And there's so many little things that just bug me. How the heck is the Chimaera still flying? How did they manage to patch it up on this desolate world, and how has it not run out of fuel in all these years? How are there still so many stormtroopers there? The kind of damage the Chimaera had probably should've killed a lot of the crew. Why the hells were they chanting Thrawn's name? That is the kind of egotistical thing he definitely would not have them doing, and would probably tell them not to do if they chose to do it entirely on their own. Why does that one stormtrooper have a weird mask in place of the usual face plate? Why do these Dathomiri witches want to help Thrawn? It's one thing with Morgan, who is an imperial loyalist who worked with him before, but random Nightsisters from another galaxy? Why does this world have off-brand Tusken Raiders in red armor? Why the extended sequences of Sabine with her... giant rat mount thing, whatever that is?

Ugh. At least They're not doing too bad on portraying Thrawn himself. His pragmatism in handling Sabine and Balan was good, as was his desire to learn as much as he could about Ahsoka after learning she may be on the way. I do feel like his actor doesn't quite look the part - in particular he seems a tad pudgy - but I guess it's probably too much to hope for them to find someone who matches the illustrations of him from the novels that closely. It also feels like he's kind of mumbly with his dialogue, but maybe that's just the sound balancing on the show as a whole, I have had that issue on other episodes.

And yeah, we finally get some more development out of Balan and Shin... although Balan is still being infuriatingly vague about what he's actually after, and I would agree that his stated goal feels way too meta for my liking.

I do agree this was probably the best episode of the show so far, but that's because the bar has not been set high, not because I thought it was particularly good.

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As for Thrawn, it's marginally less likely, because while he knew Vader, he never met Anakin Skywalker and lacks that point of comparison. Nevertheless, it's quite possible that he squeezed that information out of Tarkin or Yularen at some point. I think, from the perspective of the show, it's quite reasonable of Filoni to go either way on the issue. For example, if Thrawn responded to Ahsoka revealing that Anakin was Vader with something like 'of course he was, it was rather obvious' I wouldn't find that problematic at all.

Spoiler: New Thrawn Novels

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That is incorrect, actually. Thrawn did meet Anakin Skywalker, on a mission that took him out of the Unknown Regions while he was still with the Chiss Expansionary Defense Fleet. The novel Alliances covers this, and is basically a buddy-cop style story about Thrawn working together with Anakin in the past and Vader in the present. It also strongly implies that he is able to figure out that Vader is Anakin, though Vader makes it very clear that he is to consider Anakin dead.

[Infernally Clay]

Guess I'm going to be the debbie downer on the episode.

Spoiler: Ep 6

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As soon as they told us the planet they arrived at was the Dathomiri homeworld, I wanted to slam my head into my desk. What the hells is the point of further retconing the Witches of Dathomir to be from another friggin' galaxy? Especially when they're such a human species, it makes no sense, and I utterly despise it.

And there's so many little things that just bug me. How the heck is the Chimaera still flying? How did they manage to patch it up on this desolate world, and how has it not run out of fuel in all these years? How are there still so many stormtroopers there? The kind of damage the Chimaera had probably should've killed a lot of the crew. Why the hells were they chanting Thrawn's name? That is the kind of egotistical thing he definitely would not have them doing, and would probably tell them not to do if they chose to do it entirely on their own. Why does that one stormtrooper have a weird mask in place of the usual face plate? Why do these Dathomiri witches want to help Thrawn? It's one thing with Morgan, who is an imperial loyalist who worked with him before, but random Nightsisters from another galaxy? Why does this world have off-brand Tusken Raiders in red armor? Why the extended sequences of Sabine with her... giant rat mount thing, whatever that is?

Ugh. At least They're not doing too bad on portraying Thrawn himself. His pragmatism in handling Sabine and Balan was good, as was his desire to learn as much as he could about Ahsoka after learning she may be on the way. I do feel like his actor doesn't quite look the part - in particular he seems a tad pudgy - but I guess it's probably too much to hope for them to find someone who matches the illustrations of him from the novels that closely. It also feels like he's kind of mumbly with his dialogue, but maybe that's just the sound balancing on the show as a whole, I have had that issue on other episodes.

And yeah, we finally get some more development out of Balan and Shin... although Balan is still being infuriatingly vague about what he's actually after, and I would agree that his stated goal feels way too meta for my liking.

I do agree this was probably the best episode of the show so far, but that's because the bar has not been set high, not because I thought it was particularly good.

I mean...

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Thrawn has been stuck on that planet for over eleven years, if we assume the final season of Rebels takes place between a few months and a year before A New Hope. I could believe that someone as intelligent as Thrawn with up to tens of thousands under his command and eleven or twelve years to do it could fix up a Star Destroyer using the natural resources of whatever planet he found himself on. Especially given it's an inhabited world with sufficiently advanced technology that he was fortunate enough to be exiled on.

Plus there are those witches to consider. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, at the very least, they reanimated anyone that didn't make it. Nightsisters are all about creating and using the undead after all and almost every single one of the Stormtroopers that we saw were bound with red cloth. Something tells me that's not just for decoration. The Nightsisters likely gave Thrawn an undead army of Stormtroopers and aid in repairing his ship in return for him giving them a ride to Dathomir.

Which obviously, itself, feeds into the idea that something has taken up residence on Peridea (maybe in recent decades?) that, at the very least, the Nightsisters want to get away from. Hence why they're helping Thrawn, because he's their ticket out. I'm sure we'll learn the specifics of their arrangement in the next couple of episodes.

As for the Nightsisters of Dathomir coming from another galaxy, it actually... kinda makes sense? They don't look Dathomiran like Maul so I always assumed they came from somewhere else anyway and the way they use the Force is totally alien to the galaxy as well. If the plan was always that the Nightsisters came from another galaxy I can buy it. This likely means that different galaxies evolved to connect to the Force in different ways, which would be much more fun to explore than the usual tired Jedi vs Sith conflict. Everyone keeps bringing up the Vong as something Lucasfilm should introduce in the post sequel trilogy era as a threat for Rey to face but I'd totally love an extragalactic threat that connects with and uses the Force in a completely alien way to the Jedi and the Sith. For all we know the main Star Wars galaxy is actually the most boring one when it comes to that sort of thing.

[Fyraltari]

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And there's so many little things that just bug me. How the heck is the Chimaera still flying? How did they manage to patch it up on this desolate world, and how has it not run out of fuel in all these years?

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Cannibalizing their other ships for spare parts and rationning fuel, probably.

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How are there still so many stormtroopers there? The kind of damage the Chimaera had probably should've killed a lot of the crew.

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Thrawn says their numbers have dwindled and if all the forces they had around Lothal can now fit inside one Star destroyer, I can buy it.

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Why the hells were they chanting Thrawn's name? That is the kind of egotistical thing he definitely would not have them doing, and would probably tell them not to do if they chose to do it entirely on their own.

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A decade and half cut off from their homeworld and superiors living with witches can do strange things to people. Fascistic societies like the Empire are all about hero-worship and the exaltation of the leader. It's possible the only way to maintain discipline was to allow for some... kookiness, to take place. Star Wars take a lot of cues fro Dune, and it was a major plot point there that Paul ended up the central figure of a religion without ever really wanting to.

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Why does that one stormtrooper have a weird mask in place of the usual face plate?

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Most of the troopers have battered armor cobbled-up with non-regulation materials. He probably had to fix his helmet and used a statue's face, probably to denote rank. It's a rather effective way to distinguish him and show that Thrawn's forces have become something... different from the standard Imps.

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Why do these Dathomiri witches want to help Thrawn? It's one thing with Morgan, who is an imperial loyalist who worked with him before, but random Nightsisters from another galaxy?

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They've clearly made a deal of some sort. Leaving the planet is obviously part of it, but it's possible they intend for their alliance to restore their ancient kingdom Baylan mentioned. Kind of a Joruus C'Baoth situation.

[pendell]

With respect to fuel .. have they ever said what Star wars ships run on? A fusion plant would run on hydrogen. If that's the fuel, then you could 'mine' fuel from comets, asteroids, gas giants in the form of water-ice, which would then be refined into hydrogen.

Also , modern militaries use 3d printers to manufacture spare parts on-site. That greatly simplifies the logistics chain. You don't have to have a warehouse full of hard-to-replace parts just lying around in case something breaks. Instead, you need the specs for the part, a 3d printer, and raw material which the printer can use. Have more than one fabricator so the others can repair the first one if it breaks down.

Food? I would suggest hydroponics to cultivate both plants and insects; the insects will serve both as pollinators and as protein for the crew.

With this and similar technologies -- all of which are available in the real-world, save efficient nuclear fusion -- I see no reason a starship could not be self-sufficient more or less indefinitely. It may lose efficiency as a warship, since Tibanna gas used in turbolasers appears to be a nonrenewable resource not available in all solar systems, but survival? Sure. In fact, you could even take the fusion plant down to the surface and found a colony, using the ship as a source of worked metals.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Pax1138]

Ah, remember when the Dathomiri witches were just some apprentices Yoda lost in a crashed training ship centuries ago? And the Nightsisters were just the bad ones who used the dark side, but there were good ones too?

Though this version makes a lot more sense for Palpatine to have tried to eradicate.

[Fyraltari]

Ah, remember when the Dathomiri witches were just some apprentices Yoda lost in a crashed training ship centuries ago? And the Nightsisters were just the bad ones who used the dark side, but there were good ones too?

Though this version makes a lot more sense for Palpatine to have tried to eradicate.

I remember that they used to ride Rancor. And being hyped about Silri getting an army of frozen Sith. Too bad that was never picked up.

[Dragonus45]

This was the first episode of this series I actually enjoyed.

It really leans into the "space fantasy" that has been missing from a lot of modern Star Wars.

Also, we get a Book of Boba Fett style episode without the titular character in it except for a bit in the intro.

It's sad that "Just watch the first two and last couple episodes" of like every one of these shows from disney, netflix, and everyone else alike who aren't Strange New Worlds is just really good advice. A person could watch the first two episodes then skip direct to this one and miss nothing.

[Zevox]

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I mean...

Thrawn has been stuck on that planet for over eleven years, if we assume the final season of Rebels takes place between a few months and a year before A New Hope. I could believe that someone as intelligent as Thrawn with up to tens of thousands under his command and eleven or twelve years to do it could fix up a Star Destroyer using the natural resources of whatever planet he found himself on. Especially given it's an inhabited world with sufficiently advanced technology that he was fortunate enough to be exiled on.

What advanced technology? Those bug-people seem to have some small devices of some sort, but otherwise the only technology we see is on the Chimaera.

Plus there are those witches to consider. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, at the very least, they reanimated anyone that didn't make it.

Gods I hope not. I hate the tendency to treat the force as just magic that can do anything when it comes to the witches, including when they had them straight-up creating zombies that one time on Clone Wars. That's another on my "things I never want to see again" list...

As for the Nightsisters of Dathomir coming from another galaxy, it actually... kinda makes sense? They don't look Dathomiran like Maul so I always assumed they came from somewhere else anyway and the way they use the Force is totally alien to the galaxy as well. If the plan was always that the Nightsisters came from another galaxy I can buy it.

Oh, it definitely wasn't. Do you know where Dathomir and the Witches originated? Because it wasn't Clone Wars. They are not a Dave Filoni creation, he's just retconned them repeatedly.

They were introduced in the novel The Courtship of Princess Leia. In that novel, Dathomir was a world with a fairly primitive, pre-spaceflight society (it was actually a plot point that the Nightsisters wanted to get ahold of a ship so they could leave the planet). It was heavily matriarchal, to the point of males being treated strictly as slaves and breeding stock. Force-sensitives only ocurred among the women of Dathomir (which is part of why it was so matriarchal), and force-sensitive women were the Witches of Dathomir. The Nightsisters were a sub-group of the Witches, those that embraced the Dark Side, and were generally hostile to other Witches. That's right, before Clone Wars retconned the hell out of them, the Witches of Dathomir weren't all dark siders.

Also, for some reason Filoni ditched the part where they tamed and rode Rancors, which is such a strange thing to drop considering it was one of the coolest parts about them.

Everyone keeps bringing up the Vong as something Lucasfilm should introduce in the post sequel trilogy era as a threat for Rey to face

Who is this "everyone?" I don't think I've seen a single person who wants the Vong back. I mean, even though I'll say I preferred them to what we got in the sequel trilogy - or the NJO's treatment of what a staggering journey passing between galaxies was for them to what we're getting in Ahsoka - that says more about how little I think of the sequel trilogy, not that I'd ever want the Vong brought back.

[gbaji]

It also feels like he's kind of mumbly with his dialogue, but maybe that's just the sound balancing on the show as a whole, I have had that issue on other episodes.[/spoiler]

You're the second person to mention sound issues in this episode. I also noticed this. This was the first episode I had to turn subtitles on. After hearing a line of dialogue and not making out what was said (and rewinding like 4 times and still not being able to figure out what they said), I finally just turned it on. I'm not sure what was different, but for some reason in this episode, the dialogue was really really hard to hear.

I actually had to double cfheck the settings on my soundbar, because I thought it might have gotten set in the wrong mode somehow (it hadn't). It was that noticeably poor.

[Tyndmyr]

With respect to fuel .. have they ever said what Star wars ships run on? A fusion plant would run on hydrogen. If that's the fuel, then you could 'mine' fuel from comets, asteroids, gas giants in the form of water-ice, which would then be refined into hydrogen.

Fuel really wasn't ever relevant until Disney decided that the world's slowest chase scene was a good idea.

I suppose fuel was a given in some respect, but the previous material didn't treat it as a critical or scarce thing. Long trips without refueling stops were standard.

Also , modern militaries use 3d printers to manufacture spare parts on-site. That greatly simplifies the logistics chain. You don't have to have a warehouse full of hard-to-replace parts just lying around in case something breaks. Instead, you need the specs for the part, a 3d printer, and raw material which the printer can use. Have more than one fabricator so the others can repair the first one if it breaks down.

Even with a bit of sci fi handwavium, 3d printers a touch more complex than that. They need spare parts. Not all of them are 3d printable, and you need a large stock of plastic. Recycling isn't good indefinitely, because some volatiles are lost in the melt process. How much depends on the kind of polymer. For less volatile polymers, like PLA, you trade off other things. PLA is specific will degrade in UV light and take on water from the atmosphere, and both will make the plastic unable to be printed again even if it is filament. There's a lot of good utility for 3d printers, but they are probably not going to ever be a wholly closed loop that replaces all else.

Food? I would suggest hydroponics to cultivate both plants and insects; the insects will serve both as pollinators and as protein for the crew.

This is wildly impractical on a warship, and even on a colony ship, would take an immense amount of space. Hydroponics are more space efficient, but are touchier, and thus require more management than dirt. You're looking at a minimum of perhaps a hundred very large, leafy plants just to handle the CO2/Oxygen conversion for each person, and to handle caloric requirements is even more challenging.

Lettuce can be done by hydroponics, for instance, but a pound of lettuce provides only 63 calories, and being light and fluffy, it takes rather a lot of lettuce to produce a pound. One single person would require several large growing bays to sustain them at a bare level of survival, and at least some workforce would be required to manage the plants.

One can imagine such space being devoted on a large colony ship, perhaps, but on warships, this doesn't square with all the space devoted to weaponry or the large crews required to man them.