The Wizard's Tower by Luizeu

[JeenLeen]

So it begins. In darkness.

The first order of business, it is simple enough. I'm a FLOWER, and fire is scary. I don't want the lantern. Plus, I need all my stalks to swing that freakin' broadfork about, ain't I? Illven, Kraken and Blade would extinguish it by accident; Olive, intentionally (because ninja). Cazero's all too eager, and I'm not going to trust Snow or AV with a toothpick, let alone that thing. Wombat chose to move against me and carries things flammable. Probably Benoojian too.

The obvious choice, therefore, would be Jeen, so I'll nominate Caoimhin The Cape.

But who to kill? This is a tougher one. Snowblaze… Will have to die, at some point. But she has garnered some goodwill the last time we fought together. I'll kill her later. Wombat… [Scoffs.] A give or take. Taff, meanwhile, is a BIRDY. I'm not hurting the birdy, even if she's contemplated herbivory before. Blade, Flat and AV I trust to get themselves killed in due order. Shame on us if that doesn't happen in time. So… Like I said, fire's scary. DIE, CAZERO!

Meta

Persolus

Something about Meta's post pings me as a wolf trying to seem like putting some thought into early D1 randomness, while really being cool with probably whatever this day and either doing some distancing or spreading misinformation for if Meta eventually flips wolf. Metastachydium

Benoojian just put Meta to 3 votes, so I believe my vote will put her in the lead. Curious to see if anyone responds. If Meta flips wolf, I think I'd trust them as non-wolf, since why put her in the running?
Also, early D1 and 4 wagons (if I counted right) at 3+ votes. Neat.

The darkness wasn't much of a threat to an old devotee of the god of skill. Yeah, his eyesight wasn't what it used to be, but the ol' dwarven blood in his veins still kept him seeing well enough compared to the human folk. Still, folk got violent in all this hostility... maybe time to draw a Card and see if something happens to shed some light? Eh, probably not yet. Instead he simply pulls an apple out of his backpack and munches on it as he listens to the others make accusations. How much are the wizard apprentices working together, he wonders.

[Snowblaze]

Morning.

Metastachydium 4: Book Wombat, Let'sGetKraken, Benoojian, JeenLeen
flat_footed 3: Illven, Taffimai, bladescape
Cazero 3: Snowblaze, Athedia, Metastachydium
Taffimai 3: Persolus, flat_footed, CaoimhinTheCape
Snowblaze 1: Cazero
bladescape 1: Batcathat
Batcathat 1: Olive_Sophia
BookWombat 1: AvatarVecna
Not voting: MayanStar

And lantern votes:

Let'sGetKraken 2: Illven, Let'sGetKraken
Snowblaze 2: Snowblaze, bladescape
CaoimhinTheCape 2: Metastachydium, CaoimhinTheCape
Cazero 1: Cazero
Batcathat 1: Batcathat
Taffimai 1: Taffimai
Book Wombat 1: Athedia
AvatarVecna 1: Olive_Sophia
flat_footed 1: AvatarVecna
Persolus 1: Benoojian
Benoojian 1: JeenLeen
Not voting: Book Wombat, Persolus, flat_footed, MayanStar

Flat_footed - You ain't my real dad

Snowblaze - "Blaze" holding the Lantern seems smart.

Pocket attempt denied.

Meta

Persolus

Why to both of those?

Jeen, I believe Meta's pronouns are he/him, not she/her.

Only read so far is a mild townlean on Jeen with obligatory hedges and caveats.

Kind of tempted to vote Taffimai for stopping her songs just before getting to my one, but I'm not quite that petty (autocorrect tried to replace that with pretty, make of that what you will) and besides I prefer having more wagons in contention atp.

[Snowblaze]

I knew there was something I was forgetting to reply to:

"You'll just need to get used to the Turtle treats in there."

"And Squirtle tells me, Miss druid, that he's pretty sure no one told you to cult the seer, you decided to do that on your own."

Because of your random number generator...

Also: pokes thread with stick

[Metastachydium]

Everybody wants me dead! I don't think I'ved died D1 before.

[QUOTE=JeenLeen;25858682if Meta eventually flips wolf.[/QUOTE]

Barring bastardry, that's never going to happen.

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Metastachydium[COLOR]

Instead he simply pulls an apple out of his backpack and munches on it as he listens to the others make accusations.

That wasn't an apple! The pain! The PAIN!!

Jeen, I believe Meta's pronouns are he/him, not she/her.

Your language is stupid and its pronouns are stupid. I am one of those two, but I don't think I ever specified which.

[Snowblaze]

Everybody wants me dead! I don't think I'ved died D1 before.



Barring bastardry, that's never going to happen.





That wasn't an apple! The pain! The PAIN!!



Your language is stupid and its pronouns are stupid. I am one of those two, but I don't think I ever specified which.

Welp, sorry. Apparently my memory is unreliable, I'm sure I remember seeing that label somewhere. (And yes, the lack of a convenient gender-neutral pronoun in English is annoying.)

(The language itself isn't that bad though. Yes, I'm biased.)

[JeenLeen]

From my Deck of Many Things, I draw five cards and summon Exodia. I win the game.
The above has no mechanical impact and will not follow my normal roleplay for this character... probably... unless I do decide to go with a Yugioh deck for some reason.

---

Everybody wants me dead! I don't think I'ved died D1 before.

Hmm... WIFOM spiral.
A townie may legitimately say this to not sound defensive yet imply it's okay/fair for them to die. As most (non-critical power) townies would feel.
But a wolf would also do the exact same thing to try to slide as a wolf, especially if their main hope is that folk will get bored and start focusing elsewhere so the wagons end up elsewhere by end-of-Day.

Note: I will probably be offline most of the weekend. I'll try to peek in and see how things are, but real life is busy during the day. And I'm needing to choose sleep over staying up late due to new baby making sleep erratic.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Don't really have much to comment on, multiple lead wagons are cool. Interesting that the oil lamp votes have a few people leading with 2 (because of self votes) and a lot of 1s.

They had not paid much attention to the goings on of GiantipForumsville, but when they heard that the mayor's daughter was kidnapped, they knew they had to take up their shield once more. They gathered with the others Outside of the wizard's tower and looking over the odd group that had assembled. Nodding to the adventurers they lifted their shield to protect the party from whatever may come.

Oh yeah, like Jeen I'm gonna be pretty busy this weekend with a lot of family stuff since it's Labor day weekend in the US.


Vote Count
Meta (4): Book, Kraken, Benoojian, JeenLeen
Flat (3): Ilven, Taffimai, Bladescape
Snowblaze (1): Cazero
bladescape (1): Batcathat
Cazero (3): Snowblaze, Athedia, Meta
Taffimai (3): Persolus, Flat_footed, Cape
Batcathat (1): Olive_Sophia
BookWombat (1): AvatarVecna
No Vote: MayanStar

Oil Lamp Vote Count
Kraken (2): Ilven, Kraken
Cazero (1): Cazero
Batcathat (1): Batcathat
Snowblaze (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
Taffimai (1): Taffimai
Book Wombat (1): Athedia
Cape (2): Meta, Cape
AvatarVecna (1): Olive_Sophia
flat_footed (1): AvatarVecna
Persolus (1): Benoojian
Benoojian (1): JeenLeen
No Vote: Book, Persolus, Flat_footed, MayanStar

[Taffimai]

I barely had any sleep last night, so unfortunately more composing will have to wait until I have had a nap. I promise I will finish a verse for each of you before the end of the weekend ❤️

Why would Cazero want the lantern so badly is my question.

I say Book Wombat should take the lantern.

Welcome and hello. As you probably know, we don't kill new people D1, but that also means that they sometimes get overlooked as nobody bothers to interact with them. Would you like to explain what made you pick Wombat for the lantern vote?

Ooh, I'm gonna steal that if you don't mind.
(Also, funnily enough the "with his face into his book" is really close to an poem someone made for me.)

If you were obliged to place a blue vote on someone other than yourself right now, who would you pick and why?

So it begins. In darkness.

The first order of business, it is simple enough. I'm a FLOWER, and fire is scary. I don't want the lantern. Plus, I need all my stalks to swing that freakin' broadfork about, ain't I? Illven, Kraken and Blade would extinguish it by accident; Olive, intentionally (because ninja). Cazero's all too eager, and I'm not going to trust Snow or AV with a toothpick, let alone that thing. Wombat chose to move against me and carries things flammable. Probably Benoojian too.

The obvious choice, therefore, would be Jeen, so I'll nominate Caoimhin The Cape.

But who to kill? This is a tougher one. Snowblaze… Will have to die, at some point. But she has garnered some goodwill the last time we fought together. I'll kill her later. Wombat… [Scoffs.] A give or take. Taff, meanwhile, is a BIRDY. I'm not hurting the birdy, even if she's contemplated herbivory before. Blade, Flat and AV I trust to get themselves killed in due order. Shame on us if that doesn't happen in time. So… Like I said, fire's scary. DIE, CAZERO!

Something about Meta's post pings me as a wolf trying to seem like putting some thought into early D1 randomness, while really being cool with probably whatever this day and either doing some distancing or spreading misinformation for if Meta eventually flips wolf. Metastachydium

Benoojian just put Meta to 3 votes, so I believe my vote will put her in the lead. Curious to see if anyone responds. If Meta flips wolf, I think I'd trust them as non-wolf, since why put her in the running?
Also, early D1 and 4 wagons (if I counted right) at 3+ votes. Neat.

I low-key hate you for posting first. The thing that first drew my attention was that the part about me felt slightly pockety, but then when I actually read the post it feels... over-explained? At first glance it's just a fun story that incorporates all players' names, but it actually isn't: Snow, Wombat, Bladescape, AV, and Cazero are mentioned twice, while Persolus, Batcathat, Athedia and Mayanstar aren't there at all. So there was more thought behind it than just going through the player list and then it becomes an actual justification for Meta's votes, which is unnecessary.

Good on you for noticing Benoojian's vote, I had missed that. @Benoojian was your vote random or did you actually sus Meta?

Of my three counterwagons, I have no reads on Flat or Cazero yet, so I do prefer the Meta wagon, but I also don't want it to become so big that there's no viable counterwagon anymore, and I have another scumlean I want to pressure.

(For the record, I don't like cats. Like, really don't.)

What was your reason for this post Meta?

Your language is stupid and its pronouns are stupid. I am one of those two, but I don't think I ever specified which.

Would you prefer they/them?

Cazero (3): Snowblaze, Athedia, Meta
Taffimai (3): Persolus, Flat_footed, Cape

Cazero and I were the first two 3-person wagons, logically there should be wolves on them because wolves prefer to join rather than start wagons. I've colour-coded the names according to how scummy their vote felt to me. Snow gets bonus scum points for being active without solving or pushing people to engage, the difference with last game is stark, so she gets my vote for the moment to see where that wagon goes and to activate her sense of survival solving.

Not voting Caoimhin because he was D1ed last game.

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Of my three counterwagons, I have no reads on Flat or Cazero yet, so I do prefer the Meta wagon, but I also don't want it to become so big that there's no viable counterwagon anymore, and I have another scumlean I want to pressure.

A note on Flat/Cazero: on the one hand joining in with my songs felt pockety, but on the other hand Flat usually tries not to draw attention to himself as wolf, so it's a wash. Contrasted by Cazero who just hasn't done anything AI yet.

[Athedia]

Welcome and hello. As you probably know, we don't kill new people D1, but that also means that they sometimes get overlooked as nobody bothers to interact with them. Would you like to explain what made you pick Wombat for the lantern vote?

Happily. First I detest self voting unless absolutely necessary. Second, no one had selected Book Wombat yet (or currently) and as I have no gained knowledge yet or as you state desire to act a certain way because of previous games I tried to decide if the lantern was a trap or a boon. Deciding I did not have the knowledge for this either I simply chose a name that I found fun to say to carry the lantern.

[JeenLeen]

I low-key hate you for posting first. The thing that first drew my attention was that the part about me felt slightly pockety, but then when I actually read the post it feels... over-explained? At first glance it's just a fun story that incorporates all players' names, but it actually isn't: Snow, Wombat, Bladescape, AV, and Cazero are mentioned twice, while Persolus, Batcathat, Athedia and Mayanstar aren't there at all. So there was more thought behind it than just going through the player list and then it becomes an actual justification for Meta's votes, which is unnecessary.

Good on you for noticing Benoojian's vote, I had missed that. @Benoojian was your vote random or did you actually sus Meta?

<snip>

Cazero and I were the first two 3-person wagons, logically there should be wolves on them because wolves prefer to join rather than start wagons. I've colour-coded the names according to how scummy their vote felt to me. Snow gets bonus scum points for being active without solving or pushing people to engage, the difference with last game is stark, so she gets my vote for the moment to see where that wagon goes and to activate her sense of survival solving.

Not voting Caoimhin because he was D1ed last game.

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A note on Flat/Cazero: on the one hand joining in with my songs felt pockety, but on the other hand Flat usually tries not to draw attention to himself as wolf, so it's a wash. Contrasted by Cazero who just hasn't done anything AI yet.

I assume the "kinda hate" means you wish you had the chance to say it first and/or are annoyed at having to think through the logic/possibilities I'm implying. (Either are legitimate town reactions. I'm basically stating that I'm trying to interpret your friendly/joking comment and that is the assumption I'm going with.)
If that's the case, you also feel some suspicion on Meta.

But you vote Snow. You give a good reason, I admit, but it seems weak. I could see it as wanting competing wagons, since if Meta gets to 5 votes then that kinda squashes discussion elsewhere, but I'm getting a scumbuddy feel on you & Meta.
This means absolutely nothing if Meta flips town, but if she flips wolf, a bad look for you.
In case I'm offline during discussion near end-of-day, y'all keep in mind that if we don't have much reason to really suspect one person over another, sometimes it's best to lynch the person whose death gives the town a lot of info. I think Meta's death only gives info if she flips wolf, but if that happens I think it'll give a lot of info.

You also give a very good reason not to kill Cazero today. I'll leave that as NAI for you and (even if you flip wolf) Cazero. Could see it as a wolf trying to protect a scumbuddy, but could also be a wolf that wants to "protect" a townie in order to set them up to get lynched later in the game after you flip. WIFOM is still hard to really parse on that to anything useful.

[Batcathat]

As much as I enjoy the music numbers, something feels off about Taffimai's post. It's entirely gut at this point, but when I have the time I'll see if I can find any reason for it.

On a completely different note, I'm not sure whether or not I should suspect Cao for making a post count when there's literally no votes since the previous count. On one hand, it feels like seemingly useful filler, but on the other hand vote-counting is kind of Cao's thing, so maybe not?

[Let'sGetKraken]

Hm. I don't really love that my joke-vote on Meta ended up being an actual wagon. Feels very much like bandwagoning.

No vote for now.

As an experienced seafarer, I think that I should be entrusted with the lantern. But joking aside, anyone voting for someone other than themselves as lampbearer gets a little bit of suspicion from me, for reasons that should be obvious.

[Cazero]

As an experienced seafarer, I think that I should be entrusted with the lantern. But joking aside, anyone voting for someone other than themselves as lampbearer gets a little bit of suspicion from me, for reasons that should be obvious.
[/I]

We're not all pirates experienced seafarers like you. Care yo explain said reasons?

[Athedia]

Hm. I don't really love that my joke-vote on Meta ended up being an actual wagon. Feels very much like bandwagoning.

No vote for now.

As an experienced seafarer, I think that I should be entrusted with the lantern. But joking aside, anyone voting for someone other than themselves as lampbearer gets a little bit of suspicion from me, for reasons that should be obvious.

I find that interesting since I think self voting is stranger behavior. It is a knowledge delaying tactic more than anything.

[Let'sGetKraken]

We're not all pirates experienced seafarers like you. Care yo explain said reasons?

I find that interesting since I think self voting is stranger behavior. It is a knowledge delaying tactic more than anything.

Unless you're a mason or some other role that gives you certain knowledge of the alignment of another, the only person you know for sure is town is yourself. Why would you entrust that power to someone that isn't guaranteed town?

Mind you, by this logic it'll be totally random.... but given that the wolves are the ones that actually know each others' identities, random might be the best shot we get.

[JeenLeen]

Unless you're a mason or some other role that gives you certain knowledge of the alignment of another, the only person you know for sure is town is yourself. Why would you entrust that power to someone that isn't guaranteed town?

Mind you, by this logic it'll be totally random.... but given that the wolves are the ones that actually know each others' identities, random might be the best shot we get.

Yeah... actually I can get behind this.
If there's a lot of wagons for latern-bearer, then the wolves can probably put a vote on a fellow wolf to gain whatever boon it has. But if we all vote ourselves, then it's RNG and there's more townies than wolves, so likely a townie gets it.

I'll unvote Benoojian and vote JeenLeen for that honor, then.

[Athedia]

Unless you're a mason or some other role that gives you certain knowledge of the alignment of another, the only person you know for sure is town is yourself. Why would you entrust that power to someone that isn't guaranteed town?

Mind you, by this logic it'll be totally random.... but given that the wolves are the ones that actually know each others' identities, random might be the best shot we get.

This is assuming the lantern is a known benefit. Since it is unknown what it will do, I don't really want to risk myself since as you point out I am the only one I can guarantee is town.

Instead I chose to select someone else at random who had no other votes for them, since not selecting would have also raised questions.

[JeenLeen]

This is assuming the lantern is a known benefit. Since it is unknown what it will do, I don't really want to risk myself since as you point out I am the only one I can guarantee is town.

Instead I chose to select someone else at random who had no other votes for them, since not selecting would have also raised questions.

That's reasonable.
If a majority of people are for letting RNG determine it, though, I think a safer plan* is for you to not vote for latern-bearer and let those willing to get it vote themselves.
Based on the rules, I think you can do this simply by striking out your old vote. Just don't vote "Sleep" lest nobody get it.

*safe in the sense of less room for wolves to control the vote without it being obvious.

I get voting since it is usually deemed wolfy to not vote in this forum's metagame, but now that Kraken has raised the issue and at least one player (me) is going along, and at least some have just self-voted anyhow, seems worthwhile.
And if folk don't play ball, that's intel that might help us down the line.

[Snowblaze]

@Taffimai:

It's early D1, I'm not particularly engaged yet: haven't seen much worth poking at (until recently) and don't feel the need to force any half-formed impressions to become fully-formed. I'll get there.

(Also it's going to take a lot more than equal-fourth wagon with two votes to activate survival-solving mode, sorry. Wait no that wasn't an invitation aaaaaaaa)

Jeen, when you say "Cazero" do you mean "Caoimhin"? Because Taffimai didn't provide reasons to not kill the former. (I'll second the latter and add they actually died D1 two games in a row so unless they decide to howl and sprout fur I won't be campaigning for their death.)

Kraken unvoting Meta means something but I can't work out what, doing WIFOM spirals on what wolf!Kraken means for Meta's alignment. I think it's a very small wolf point for Kraken though but also I can't read Kraken and it already feels like I'm suspecting it for bad reasons.

Retracting my Jeen townlean having remembered that wolf!them is typically townier than town!them (sorry). I'll probably be able to read them much more accurately with flips so I'll let that simmer for a while.

BCH, would very much like elaboration on the Taffimai suspicion.

Re: lantern votes, we do need to eventually find someone we can trust to bear the lantern (hint: her name's Snowblaze ;)) That's how we defeat the wolves' attempts to get the lantern to one of their own, assuming that between us we can find one accurate townread. I'm defaulting to self-voting until I have a sufficiently confident townread, which I currently don't.

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Okay, yeah, definitely against choosing lantern-holder by RNG. That's effectively saying we as a collective don't trust ourselves to find one person who's more likely than statistics imply to be town, and... I at least think we give ourselves better odds by not rolling the dice.

(Yes, self-voting hypocrite, I know.)

This is assuming the lantern is a known benefit. Since it is unknown what it will do, I don't really want to risk myself since as you point out I am the only one I can guarantee is town.

Instead I chose to select someone else at random who had no other votes for them, since not selecting would have also raised questions.

Is raising questions a bad thing?

[Let'sGetKraken]

Kraken unvoting Meta means something but I can't work out what, doing WIFOM spirals on what wolf!Kraken means for Meta's alignment. I think it's a very small wolf point for Kraken though but also I can't read Kraken and it already feels like I'm suspecting it for bad reasons.

Snow let's not do this again

It means that I am suspicious of how that wagon formed, it felt like bandwagoning and if Meta was a wolf I would have thought there would have been more resistance, is all. Especially since my original vote was just as a cat lover, I got a bit spooked and am reevaluating.

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Re: lantern votes, we do need to eventually find someone we can trust to bear the lantern (hint: her name's Snowblaze ;)) That's how we defeat the wolves' attempts to get the lantern to one of their own, assuming that between us we can find one accurate townread. I'm defaulting to self-voting until I have a sufficiently confident townread, which I currently don't.

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Okay, yeah, definitely against choosing lantern-holder by RNG. That's effectively saying we as a collective don't trust ourselves to find one person who's more likely than statistics imply to be town, and... I at least think we give ourselves better odds by not rolling the dice.

(Yes, self-voting hypocrite, I know.)

Is raising questions a bad thing?

Oh I agree with the first bit. But the lack of info is exactly why I think we should let it random today. Once we have more info, we should absolutely make a choice, but right now we have nothing.

And I'm okay with you disagreeing in the short term so long as you continue to self-vote, lol. I also would very much agree that as a collective we should not trust ourselves D1 to find one person that's more than, what, 75% likely to be town.

[Metastachydium]

Welp, sorry. Apparently my memory is unreliable, I'm sure I remember seeing that label somewhere.

For the record, I'm not called Mandela, or dead (so far) either. (Also, no problem.)

Hmm... WIFOM spiral.
A townie may legitimately say this to not sound defensive yet imply it's okay/fair for them to die. As most (non-critical power) townies would feel.
But a wolf would also do the exact same thing to try to slide as a wolf, especially if their main hope is that folk will get bored and start focusing elsewhere so the wagons end up elsewhere by end-of-Day.

Look, if you strike me down, Town will become less powerful than you can possibly imagine, but
1. it's not like I'm going to beg (even though do note that I'm too pretty to die);
2. you won't and, indeed, have no good reason to take my word for that; and
3. it's not like I'm going to claim at this point either. That would be dumb and probably bad for Town.

I barely had any sleep last night, so unfortunately more composing will have to wait until I have had a nap. I promise I will finish a verse for each of you before the end of the weekend ❤️

[Malicious grin.] It's funny that you'd cast shade on me for not listing everyone in the same post where you acknowledge you did the same.

I low-key hate you for posting first. The thing that first drew my attention was that the part about me felt slightly pockety, but then when I actually read the post it feels... over-explained? At first glance it's just a fun story that incorporates all players' names, but it actually isn't: Snow, Wombat, Bladescape, AV, and Cazero are mentioned twice, while Persolus, Batcathat, Athedia and Mayanstar aren't there at all. So there was more thought behind it than just going through the player list and then it becomes an actual justification for Meta's votes, which is unnecessary.

OR I was bored.

What was your reason for this post Meta?

To tell everyone who somehow didn't yet know that I ****ing hate cats because they are invasive, sadistic psycho pests that hurt BIRDIES?

Would you prefer they/them?

Whatever is easiest for you. Just spare me the novelty pronouns with weird letters (I'm NOT a xwqe/xqwyr).

Unless you're a mason or some other role that gives you certain knowledge of the alignment of another, the only person you know for sure is town is yourself. Why would you entrust that power to someone that isn't guaranteed town?

Mind you, by this logic it'll be totally random.... but given that the wolves are the ones that actually know each others' identities, random might be the best shot we get.

This is assuming the lantern is a known benefit. Since it is unknown what it will do, I don't really want to risk myself since as you point out I am the only one I can guarantee is town.

Instead I chose to select someone else at random who had no other votes for them, since not selecting would have also raised questions.

Yes to that, and I don't feel like voting myself anyhow. If everyone agrees we want to do random, I'll remove my vote for the Cape, however.

[Snowblaze]

Snow let's not do this again

It means that I am suspicious of how that wagon formed, it felt like bandwagoning and if Meta was a wolf I would have thought there would have been more resistance, is all. Especially since my original vote was just as a cat lover, I got a bit spooked and am reevaluating.

Okay, yeah, that's fair. Any particular reason you just unvoted instead of voting someone else?

(I'll try not to spiral around you in paranoia, but no promises.)

[Batcathat]

BCH, would very much like elaboration on the Taffimai suspicion.

Yeah, me too. Hopefully a good night's sleep will allow me to either dismiss it or put it into words.

Do you have any thoughts on my reaction to Cao's vote count?

[Athedia]

That's reasonable.
If a majority of people are for letting RNG determine it, though, I think a safer plan* is for you to not vote for latern-bearer and let those willing to get it vote themselves.
Based on the rules, I think you can do this simply by striking out your old vote. Just don't vote "Sleep" lest nobody get it.

*safe in the sense of less room for wolves to control the vote without it being obvious.

I get voting since it is usually deemed wolfy to not vote in this forum's metagame, but now that Kraken has raised the issue and at least one player (me) is going along, and at least some have just self-voted anyhow, seems worthwhile.
And if folk don't play ball, that's intel that might help us down the line.

Yeah, I am unfamiliar with the metagame here so I have to go of my experiences in other venues in which both abstaining from a vote and self voting were considered suspicious.

Is raising questions a bad thing?

When unfamiliar with the metagame yes.


Given my distaste for self voting I will agree to strike my lantern vote.

[JeenLeen]

Jeen, when you say "Cazero" do you mean "Caoimhin"? Because Taffimai didn't provide reasons to not kill the former. (I'll second the latter and add they actually died D1 two games in a row so unless they decide to howl and sprout fur I won't be campaigning for their death.)

I did mean Cao. I misread somehow.

Retracting my Jeen townlean having remembered that wolf!them is typically townier than town!them (sorry). I'll probably be able to read them much more accurately with flips so I'll let that simmer for a while.

Fair.

Is raising questions a bad thing?

I read Athedia as saying that not voting would raise questions about her towniness, leading potentially to her getting lynched. (Not D1, of course, given our metagame, but she wouldn't necessarily know that. (assuming she's a new player; I've been away a couple games)).
So, while raising questions is good -- and I think it's good to note that the latern is not necessarily good but safe to say it's probably good -- I can understand one not wanting to raise questions about one's own towniness.

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My post was ninja'd by Athedia, but I think that confirms I read her right.

[Athedia]

I read Athedia as saying that not voting would raise questions about her towniness, leading potentially to her getting lynched. (Not D1, of course, given our metagame, but she wouldn't necessarily know that. (assuming she's a new player; I've been away a couple games)).
So, while raising questions is good -- and I think it's good to note that the latern is not necessarily good but safe to say it's probably good -- I can understand one not wanting to raise questions about one's own towniness.

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My post was ninja'd by Athedia, but I think that confirms I read her right.

Yep! New to this metagame so I only have my experiences from other ones to go with. This is the first group I met with a metagame on not lynching new people the first day (most I have played in use the silent night option instead where a unanimous vote for no lynching is needed the first day, I guess the Sleep option but in my experience that had to be unanimous and that boat had sailed)

[JeenLeen]

Yep! New to this metagame so I only have my experiences from other ones to go with. This is the first group I met with a metagame on not lynching new people the first day (most I have played in use the silent night option instead where a unanimous vote for no lynching is needed the first day)

Yeah. We don't lynch new players D1. It can alienate new players and that just hurts the community.
We also tend not to lynch the person who died D1 last game or who ran the last game, though those are less solid and if someone looks really wolfy they can still get voted out.

Not Voting is considered wolfy since it denies info the town. Maybe there is a good case for voting Sleep, but it's generally felt that (barring really odd mechanics) the Town benefits more from even a mislynch than it would from not learning anything mechanically D1. If we get a wolf, awesome, but even a mislynch lets us get connections from who voted where when; without a flip D1, we don't really have any intel to help us know what to do N1 and less to help vote D2. Whereas the wolves know who is non-wolf.

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Thought: Athedia is either Town, as the wolves would have told her the metagame. Or she's a quite skilled wolf who is playing ignorance very well (or whose scumbuddies didn't explain the metagame for some reason.)

[Athedia]

Yeah. We don't lynch new players D1. It can alienate new players and that just hurts the community.
We also tend not to lynch the person who died D1 last game or who ran the last game, though those are less solid and if someone looks really wolfy they can still get voted out.

Not Voting is considered wolfy since it denies info the town. Maybe there is a good case for voting Sleep, but it's generally felt that (barring really odd mechanics) the Town benefits more from even a mislynch than it would from not learning anything mechanically D1. If we get a wolf, awesome, but even a mislynch lets us get connections from who voted where when; without a flip D1, we don't really have any intel to help us know what to do N1 and less to help vote D2. Whereas the wolves know who is non-wolf.

That all makes sense. Most of the time I have played has been in person, which is very fast paced usually.

[Let'sGetKraken]

Okay, yeah, that's fair. Any particular reason you just unvoted instead of voting someone else?

(I'll try not to spiral around you in paranoia, but no promises.)

Given that my last vote ended up becoming a wagon, I thought I'd put more consideration into the next one.

[Snowblaze]

Yeah, me too. Hopefully a good night's sleep will allow me to either dismiss it or put it into words.

Do you have any thoughts on my reaction to Cao's vote count?

shrug I did want to make a joke about me making Caoimhin redundant in my last big post, but I didn't quote the relevant post.

I can kind of see your point, but also a) I personally make vote counts more to make sure I have a grip on what's going on than to inform others, so maybe the act of making it is helpful, b) I vaguely recall Caoimhin doing similar things before and c) I'm not touching suspicion of Caoimhin with a ten-foot pole (and if that results in me dying D2 after Caoimhin flips wolf D1, so be it.)

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Re: Athedia, I figured that was the meaning, just wanted to poke at it and see if anything happened. Unfortunately it's kind of hard to tell the difference between wanting to fit in because you're new and there are established ways of doing things and wanting to fit in because you're a wolf and don't want to be murdered.

(Also I'll add a third explanation to that: Athedia is a wolf and her partners explained things but then told her to pretend they hadn't been explained to possibly get towncred. That sounds kind of tinfoily, but also last time I was a wolf Illven asked me what some acronym or other meant and I answered and then suggested she ask in thread to potentially get towncred, hence why it occurred to me.)

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Kraken: fair enough on the vote, I'll give you a while to make up your mind. Agree to disagree on the lantern thing, though ftr if the majority of players are in favour of RNG I won't fight it.

(Though my inner pedant feels obliged to point out the statement of mine you agreed with was "here's what your argument implies, which I disagree with".)