A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post

    Irrelevant, but I did leave the opening that Azurite culture may have a valid place for them.
    Please defend "killing other people for pay" in an other than negative connotation.
    I'll be filing my nails, I can wait.
    Soldiers are viewed in a very positive light in various cultures, both past and present. Getting paid to kill people is probably the very first item in a soldier's job description.
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    Out of the frying pan and into the friar!


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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Referring to soldiers as assassins is a category error. (Though I have heard some interesting arguments as regards mercenaries along those lines over the years).
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Referring to soldiers as assassins is a category error. (Though I have heard some interesting arguments as regards mercenaries along those lines over the years).
    And even mercenaries don't have to be aggressors - they can be "hired to guard a place, or to protect a convoy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    Getting paid to kill people is probably the very first item in a soldier's job description.
    Soldiers aren't paid to kill, but to fight, or just to be available in case fighting is needed.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2023-09-19 at 10:55 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Soldiers aren't paid to kill, but to fight, or just to be available in case fighting is needed.
    I would say they are paid to stop hostilities from any opposing faction. The simplest and most direct way to stop hostilities is to kill, but that's not the only way. Also, lots of support structure needed to stop hostilities from opposing factions, which is why most soldiers are non-combat roles in modern societies.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Soldiers still get paid in peacetime. It's "being available in case needed" that they're being paid for.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Soldiers still get paid in peacetime. It's "being available in case needed" that they're being paid for.
    Sounds like they're stopping hostilities from any opposing faction, but really efficiently.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Referring to soldiers as assassins is a category error. (Though I have heard some interesting arguments as regards mercenaries along those lines over the years).
    1. You said "killing people for pay", not "being an assassin". Soldiers do have "kill other people if neccessary" as a part of their job description, so in an armed conflict, killing other people is one of the things they get paid for.

    2. You are confusing ninjas with assassins (or Ninjas with Assassins). If we are talking lowercase, ninja may simply be a saboteur/infiltrator/spy (and mind, we never see Therkla, who sparked this whole debacle, kill anyone non-Evil as far as I know). If we are talking uppercase, one is a base class with no alignment restrictions, and the other an Always Evil prestige class.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Soldiers still get paid in peacetime. It's "being available in case needed" that they're being paid for.
    Heh, this reminded me of a little story. I worked in TV production for a little bit. (Aside-- there's nothing like seeing the process up close that makes you realize, oh yeah, all those names in the credits do have jobs that are important to the production.) Anyway, a friend was telling me a story of working on another production, when a new producer who thought he was hot stuff came to set one day. And he tried to throw his weight around, so he went to a crew member who was sitting around and told him "I don't pay you to sit around." The guy shot back "No; you pay me for what I can do at a moment's notice."

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Referring to soldiers as assassins is a category error. (Though I have heard some interesting arguments as regards mercenaries along those lines over the years).
    They're adjacent professions, if nothing else. It's also pretty easy to imagine a culture glamourizing the role of a covert operative whose job includes assassinating people in the same way they do soldiers, provided the covert agency is sufficiently entrenched and legitimized. Like, long history of action spy films to look at for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Soldiers still get paid in peacetime. It's "being available in case needed" that they're being paid for.
    Also historically training a bunch of guys to go do organized violence for you and then firing them without pay is a really good way to get bandits
    Last edited by Errorname; 2023-09-20 at 04:52 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Errorname View Post
    It's also pretty easy to imagine a culture glamourizing the role of a covert operative whose job includes assassinating people in the same way they do soldiers, provided the covert agency is sufficiently entrenched and legitimized. Like, long history of action spy films to look at for that.
    John wick. Literally an entire society of assassins with their own currency, travel and espionage infrastructure, everything.
    Last edited by ZhonLord; 2023-09-20 at 06:56 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    John wick. Literally an entire society of assassins with their own currency, travel and espionage infrastructure, everything.
    I don't know if John Wick actually glamorizes anything - it seems as if an assassin-based economy is inherently unstable.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Wherefore art thou Romeo?

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    Because the clerk was drunk when my name was inscribed in the city rolls.
    Dad and mum meant to name me Romero.
    I may be old-fashioned, but isn't the answer "Herefore art I"?
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    I may be old-fashioned, but isn't the answer "Herefore art I"?
    Heretofore I've never seen the word Herefore, so I am not sure.
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    IIRC, Wherefore means why?
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  14. - Top - End - #134
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Heretofore I've never seen the word Herefore, so I am not sure.
    Spoiler: FWIW
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    IIRC, Wherefore means why?
    Oh, I know that. My English teachers were all Shakespeare worshippers, after all. It's a reference to a certian cartoon rabbit. I did try to find the appropriate clip online, but it's nowhere to be found, and that kind of thing bugs me...

    EDIT: And would you believe it? Found it a few minutes later - the scene starts about 1:07 in this clip... I'd forgotten the "as you like it" gag and the writer's cameo...
    Last edited by Manga Shoggoth; 2023-09-20 at 03:39 PM.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

    "Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee

  15. - Top - End - #135
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Art is the "thou" form of "to be". You can't say "art I", it's "am I".

    The answer to "wherefore" can be either "therefore" (for that reason) or "herefore" (for this reason); it doesn't automatically become "herefore" just because it's first person.
    Last edited by Sir_Norbert; 2023-09-20 at 04:49 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post
    Art is the "thou" form of "to be". You can't say "herefore art I", it's "herefore am I".
    Sure you can. And if enough people do it, it'll be even be correct.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    John wick. Literally an entire society of assassins with their own currency, travel and espionage infrastructure, everything.
    I was more thinking like James Bond and Jack Ryan. John Wick is more of a fantasy crime flick.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Sure you can. And if enough people do it, it'll be even be correct.
    In theory, yes.

    In practice, there's never going to be a point where people are using early Modern English conjugations wrong often enough to change the standard, especially since these conjugations are only ever used in an effort to sound archaic, solemn, or funny, all of which requires the old standard forms surviving as a frame of reference.

    I mean, it can only become correct if these forms become part of the vernacular again. As long as these forms are used exclusively as a callback to earlier stages of English, it can't ever be correct. Not without a time machine and lots of social engineering at any rate.
    ungelic is us

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Ron Miel's Avatar

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by manga shoggoth View Post
    oh, i know that. My english teachers were all shakespeare worshippers, after all. It's a reference to a certian cartoon rabbit. I did try to find the appropriate clip online, but it's nowhere to be found, and that kind of thing bugs me.
    I see what you did there.
    Last edited by Ron Miel; 2023-09-20 at 11:15 PM.
    .
    -.____________________
    ./___________________()-------Ron Miel
    |...___________________--------sits down
    |..| |_________________()-------and starts
    |..|/__________________--------singing
    | ___________________()-------about gold

    .

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    I may be old-fashioned, but isn't the answer "Herefore art I"?
    "Ah'm right chere," is the correct response.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    "Ah'm right chere," is the correct response.
    My day is better for listening to that.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

    "Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    "Ah'm right chere," is the correct response.
    The proper pronunciation for that term is "rat cheer" ...
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: What if Elan and Nale parents were switched?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    The proper pronunciation for that term is "rat cheer" ...
    Rat Cheer is a laundry detergent marketed to rodents.

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