I'm a sexy succubus!!! *wink*

[Caxton]

Actually no i am not. But I want to be. Unfortunately, I looked in the mm and there is not a block saying succubi as player characters. However, they DO have a LA. Help?

[Reinboom]

Take their stats, round down to an even number.
The succubus is Str 13, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26
So, rounded down to an even number:
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26
Then minus 10 to get their bonuses.

Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +6, Wis +4, Cha +16

They gain all their abilities and qualities, and are proficient with anything in their description.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Succubi and other demons really aren't meant to be player characters. They have some rather powerful abilities, and that's why there isn't the option to play as one. That said, there's a section in the book Savage Species about such situations, except that the Succubus is a 12 level monster class.

[Caxton]

So I can't be a succubus, but I can be a mindflayer, or a rakshasa, or a stone giant, or a (albeit with draconomicon) a DRAGON!?!?

[Korias]

If your planning on playing this kind of character, remember that your going to have a bunch of spell like abilities, but are going to not be allowed unless you get a DM OK or your character creation ECL is above 12.

By all means, GO AHEAD! The game is meant to have fun. Talk with your DM, make plan for your character, and have fun.

Just make sure he/she's OK with you playing a character that oozes sexual attraction and will probably have a hard time getting quests because of that huge charisma modifier.

[Caxton]

actually, we specifically HAVE to be something with an LA of +3 or higher. So i though succubus would be cool.

[Reinboom]

actually, we specifically HAVE to be something with an LA of +3 or higher. So i though succubus would be cool.

Mind, you will be level 12.

You also must have the hit die as well.

[tyckspoon]

So I can't be a succubus, but I can be a mindflayer, or a rakshasa, or a stone giant, or a (albeit with draconomicon) a DRAGON!?!?

If it has a given level adjustment, you can play it as a PC. The 'X thing as player characters' blocks are just to make the process easier for the races and creatures the designers thought would be most desired as PCs. Generate your stats using the stat modifiers as explained by SweetRein, copy down all the special qualities, special attacks, and spell-like abilities, and start playing. You are now playing a succubus, congratulations.

[Caxton]

My DM says the above method doesn't make sense because the drow have a block that doesn't add up. They get +2 str + 2dex +2 int. But in the player block they get +2 dex +2 cha +2 int and -2 con.

[tyckspoon]

My DM says the above method doesn't make sense because the drow have a block that doesn't add up. They get +2 str + 2dex +2 int. But in the player block they get +2 dex +2 cha +2 int and -2 con.

The drow warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

The normal method of determining a creature's stat mods assumes the stat line is all 10s and 11s. It doesn't work if a particular example was built with a different array.

[Fax Celestis]

My DM says the above method doesn't make sense because the drow have a block that doesn't add up. They get +2 str + 2dex +2 int. But in the player block they get +2 dex +2 cha +2 int and -2 con.

That'd be because the model Drow is using the Exceptional array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), not the Normal array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10) like most monsters do. Since the Drow entry includes racial modifiers, those override the stat block description.

[Korias]

My DM says the above method doesn't make sense because the drow have a block that doesn't add up. They get +2 str + 2dex +2 int. But in the player block they get +2 dex +2 cha +2 int and -2 con.

Thats because those were the bonuses set into a stat block. Take the normal stats (There in the DM somewhere...), and then input those bonuses as racial. You then get those bonuses to those stats. (The two eights going Con and Str)

Edit: Ninja'd. Twice.

[Caxton]

Ok my DM says that makes sense. Thanks alot guys!!!!!

[Chronos]

Take their stats, round down to an even number.
The succubus is Str 13, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26
So, rounded down to an even number:
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26
Then minus 10 to get their bonuses.

That assumes that the MM entries are generated with a starting array of all 10s and 11s. But all of the "normal" races, with an "X as characters" section, seem to assume a starting array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. To compensate for this, you probably want to decrease your two highest adjustments, and increase your two lowest adjustments.

[Rachel Lorelei]

My DM says the above method doesn't make sense because the drow have a block that doesn't add up. They get +2 str + 2dex +2 int. But in the player block they get +2 dex +2 cha +2 int and -2 con.

That's because

The drow warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

It happens with MM entries that have class levels; gotta watch for that line. And you'd know to watch for it, if you read the following:

Ability Scores for Monster PCs

While a monsters statistics give the ability scores for a typical creature of a certain kind, any “monster” creature that becomes an adventurer is definitely not typical. Therefore, when creating a PC from a creature, check to see if the creature’s entry has any ability scores of 10 or higher. If so, for each score, subtract 10 (if the score is even) or 11 (if the score is odd) to get the creature’s modifier for that ability based on its race or kind. Generate the character’s ability scores as normal, then add the racial ability modifiers to get their ability scores.

Note: Some monsters have base ability scores other than 10 and 11. If alternate scores were used this will be indicated in the monster entry. Also, some monsters that make good PCs have their racial ability modifiers and other traits already listed in their monster entry.

[Mike_Lemmer]

That said, there's a section in the book Savage Species about such situations, except that the Succubus is a 12 level monster class.

I'd suggest making a Lesser Succubus. Lower the stat bonuses, get rid of most of the SR/DR/resistances, remove Greater Teleport & Summoning, don't use the racial HD, keep Alter Self as your starting ability, gain Detect Thoughts as an SLA at 3rd level, gain Suggestion as an SLA at 5th level, and get rid of the negative energy drain completely. That would give you a suitable succubus without wasting 12 levels doing so.

[Draz74]

I think a Nymph would be more fun than a Succubus. Still plenty of potential for sexiness, but less shoehorned into, "I have to be a slut and be eeeeevil about it." Plus cooler abilities IMHO. Unfortunately it counts as an ECL 13 character before adding class levels, which is even higher than the Succubus. (Something wrong with that if you ask me. Nymph a more "exotic" character than Succubus? Yeah right.)

[Korias]

I'd suggest making a Lesser Succubus. Lower the stat bonuses, get rid of most of the SR/DR/resistances, remove Greater Teleport & Summoning, don't use the racial HD, keep Alter Self as your starting ability, gain Detect Thoughts as an SLA at 3rd level, gain Suggestion as an SLA at 5th level, and get rid of the negative energy drain completely. That would give you a suitable succubus without wasting 12 levels doing so.

But isn't the drain a main point of the Succubus? Perhaps a version where the character must initiate the drain, and perhaps coming in at level 10 or so, but still...

[Kizara]

You could play a half-fiend, and convince your DM to let you move around the ability scores (+4 str becomes +4 cha, etc), and repick your SLAs to things more charm and seduction oriented.

Some homebrew you might appreciate:

New skill: Seduction

This skill represents both your ability to entice and manipulate others sexually as well as your sexual performance.

1) Gives and recieves synergy from Bluff. Gives synergy to Diplomancy ONLY if you don't have one from bluff.

2) replaces Bluff as the skill used for these actions, and does alot better job of it.

3) Vampires, succubuses, erineyes, nymph and other such creatures get a +8 racial bonus to Seduction.

Example DCs:

10 Effectively flirt
15 Memorable kiss
20 Orgasim (lower DC by 5 to get a male to orgasm)
25 Memorable Orgasim
30 Intense Orgasim
35 Multiple Orgasims
50 Achieve Memorable Orgasim with just a kiss


Circumstance modifiers:

DC 20 Use Rope check grants +2 if they are 'into that sorta thing'.
DC 20 Intimidate check grants +2 if they are "into that sorta thing'.
DC 35 Diplomancy check to convince someone otherwise not to be "into that sorta thing".
Has a feature or attribute subject finds exceptionally desirable (fetish): +2 - +4.

Is a race or kind that is offensive to the subject: -2 to -8.
Is a very different or alien race or kind (whale to minotaur) -20 or higher.

[Rachel Lorelei]

Wow. Kizara, I can't decide if that's offensive or just clueless, but it's impressively whatever it is.

[Kizara]

Wow. Kizara, I can't decide if that's offensive or just clueless, but it's impressively whatever it is.

Remember, D&D is a heroic, abstract system and this skill is meant to follow the same lines.

That being said, it's written from a male perspective (mine) and yours would be welcome as to why its so terribly 'clueless' or 'offensive'.

It certinally isn't meant to somehow be derogatory or offensive.

[Korias]

I will say, that a memorable Kiss is not on par with a Male Orgasm. However, I would also like to state that there IS a skill called seduction in exsistance. I think its in Complete Scoundrel, or something.
Now, I also want to state that there are somethings such as this that might bring this thread down.

[EL HUEVADOR]

words

I'm afraid they've already beaten you to it.

[Kizara]

I'm afraid they've already beaten you to it.

Heh... INDEED they have...

Nevermind my feeble attempts at homebrew then, go have a look at that book that is written and published by teams of people and has far more content then my little skill could ever encompass.

[Rachel Lorelei]

Remember, D&D is a heroic, abstract system and this skill is meant to follow the same lines.

That being said, it's written from a male perspective (mine) and yours would be welcome as to why its so terribly 'clueless' or 'offensive'.

It certinally isn't meant to somehow be derogatory or offensive.

Well, for starters, you're giving a memorable kiss and a male orgasm the same DC. Think about what that implies.

Some men have difficulty getting off with a partner. Some women can have mutliple orgasms in a few minutes, while others are incapable of having one at all. Then there's the nonsense about intense and multiple orgasms, as if the latter were somehow the next level from the former.

And even a DC of 50 seems ridiculous for the making someone orgasm with a kiss, considering that it's as impossible as, say, passing through a Wall of Force.


And then there's the fact that seduction and sexual prowess are separate things. Seduction is about making someone want you; it doesn't guarantee that you can actually satisfy. It certainly has nothing to do with the ability to give a given person (whether they have them all they time or are physically incapable of it) multiple orgasms.


It borders on offensive because it displays cluelessness, combined with a seeming disregard for the thing seduction is for: getting people to do things for you--or, more likely, tell you things. It just seems like a juvenile "hurr hurr, look at this, you can make people have orgasms". I'm not sure how the Book of Erotic Fantasy addresses something like this, but I'm betting it's with a lot more accuracy and dignity both.
This Dead Levels article has a Seduction ability for the Swashbuckler, a much better fit for "heroic-fantasy" seduction: getting someone infatuated with you so they're willing to tell you things they otherwise wouldn't. It also does things like take their attitude into account, and not for some reason diverge into an arbitrary assigning of DCs for kinds and strengths of orgasms.

[Korias]

Rant about the Skill and its Pretense.

Thank you for stopping this inane conversation. Lets get back on topic, shall we?

[Kizara]

Well, for starters, you're giving a memorable kiss and a male orgasm the same DC. Think about what that implies.

Some men have difficulty getting off with a partner. Some women can have mutliple orgasms in a few minutes, while others are incapable of having one at all. Then there's the nonsense about intense and multiple orgasms, as if the latter were somehow the next level from the former.

And even a DC of 50 seems ridiculous for the making someone orgasm with a kiss, considering that it's as impossible as, say, passing through a Wall of Force.


And then there's the fact that seduction and sexual prowess are separate things. Seduction is about making someone want you; it doesn't guarantee that you can actually satisfy. It certainly has nothing to do with the ability to give a given person (whether they have them all they time or are physically incapable of it) multiple orgasms.


It borders on offensive because it displays cluelessness, combined with a seeming disregard for the thing seduction is for: getting people to do things for you--or, more likely, tell you things. It just seems like a juvenile "hurr hurr, look at this, you can make people have orgasms". I'm not sure how the Book of Erotic Fantasy addresses something like this, but I'm betting it's with a lot more accuracy and dignity both.
This Dead Levels article has a Seduction ability for the Swashbuckler, a much better fit for "heroic-fantasy" seduction: getting someone infatuated with you so they're willing to tell you things they otherwise wouldn't. It also does things like take their attitude into account, and not for some reason diverge into an arbitrary assigning of DCs for kinds and strengths of orgasms.

Touche.

In some defense, it was a very brief first draft of something my group has played around with from time to time.

It wasn't really complete and Diplomancy covers the whole 'seduce to get info thing' better really.


As for the wall of force thing, the fact that skill DCs plateau at "incredibly hard" at DC 30 is a problem of the system, since its quite practical to get results in that area as early as level 5. I suppose trying to ignore that precedent in my homebrew without discussing it or addressing it is pretty foolish.

[SpiderKoopa]

Ah, I am the DM, and I dually apologize for not reading the entries as far as I should. However there is a twist Caxton left out. In the campaign world, creatures have been changing alignments radically. I can't say why, as it would give away key points, but he is supposed to be a far different alignment. He wants to be LG.
He'll be part of a larger group of demons-gone-good who took the mantle of "Those Who Turned to Celestia." It has to be corny, they're good.

Anyways, so he won't be the typical eeeeeeevil seductress. He'll probably be a paladin if anything (so he can put that charisma to good use).

Anyways, that was the explanation/apology.

[turkishproverb]

but...but...you have to be able to...

its..its. .... its eeeeeeviil!

[tyckspoon]

Ah, I am the DM, and I dually apologize for not reading the entries as far as I should. However there is a twist Caxton left out. In the campaign world, creatures have been changing alignments radically. I can't say why, as it would give away key points, but he is supposed to be a far different alignment. He wants to be LG.
He'll be part of a larger group of demons-gone-good who took the mantle of "Those Who Turned to Celestia." It has to be corny, they're good.

Anyways, so he won't be the typical eeeeeeevil seductress. He'll probably be a paladin if anything (so he can put that charisma to good use).

Anyways, that was the explanation/apology.

eh. Doesn't change the mechanics of being a Succubus PC much. Sorcerer or Bard would put the Cha to more immediate use, but Paladin works ok. Saves will be impressively high, high natural armor + heavy armor class means AC probably will be too, and lots of Turn attempts. I'm thinking Divine feats.