Mongrelfolk -- is there a better word?

[Metastachydium]

Some races could easily end up lumped under another:

• "goblins", without "oid", include bugbears and hobgoblins.
• "humans" include dwarves, elves, gnomes and halflings.
• "lizardfolk" include dragonborn, kobolds, tortles and yuan-ti.
• "tieflings" include aasimar, genasi and other planetouched.

(In a setting I'm working on, Elves, Orcs and Goblinoids are all considered species of Elves; Bugbears don't exist as such, but the word is used as a slur against Quaggoths. Quaggoths are not amused.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Some races could easily end up lumped under another:

• "goblins", without "oid", include bugbears and hobgoblins.
• "humans" include dwarves, elves, gnomes and halflings.
• "lizardfolk" include dragonborn, kobolds, tortles and yuan-ti.
• "tieflings" include aasimar, genasi and other planetouched.

I think your last line is not quite apt, but I generally like the point you made there.
I think it would have scanned better something like this.

"planetouched" include Tiefling, aasimar, genasi, and others of outsider lineage.

"Rusalka" also happens to be a Slavic term for a water spirit, derived from Latin "Rosalia". There may be some etymological connection to Serbian use, it is common for related languages to have different meanings for words that share a root.

I suspect that it was ported in via the Croation branch of the Serbo-Croatian language, given the influence of Latin on the heavy influence of the Roman church in Croatia and the heavy influence of the Greek church among Serbs ... but that's a guess.

Lots of cultures refer to themselves as ‘the people’ or something similar and then have names for different outside groups.

IIRC, that's where the Greek root of the term Barbarian comes from.

Similarly a lot of cultures word for ‘foreigner’ is best transcribed into English as ‘not one of us’.

In Italy, I recall stranieri being the term for foreigners like me, and it sounded a lot to my ear like "stranger". And there's a Scots term that got tossed about in the Outlander miniseries (senachem?) that my wife and I enjoyed one season of.

I suppose they'd call themselves whatever their country is called. If they formed the "Nation of Blarg" they would call themselves "Blargites" or "Blarglanders", probably insisting that others would call them that as well.

Presuming that nations are a thing in that setting. (The nation state is a comparatively recent phenomenon, but city states are certainly a great model for most FRPGs...such as the City State of the Invincible Overlord, Judges Guild, which I need to get a D&D 5e version of).

Quaggoths are not amused.)

I never had in my head the idea that a Quaggoth had a sense of humor, but thanks to your post, I am going to change that head canon. Of cours a Quaggoth can appreciate a joke, what was I thinking?

[Metastachydium]

I think your last line is not quite apt, but I generally like the point you made there.
I think it would have scanned better something like this.

"planetouched" include Tiefling, aasimar, genasi, and others of outsider lineage.

Not really, no. Tortles are lizardfolk to the same degree that genasi are tieflings. The group at large is named after a lazily picked cohyponym in all other examples Millstone gave. Why does it only bother you here?

[Maat Mons]

Okay, I looked up the demographics of the Forgotten Realms. In that setting, if you threw all the surface-dwelling (i.e., non-underdark) folks into a big melting pot, everybody would average out to be 80% human, 5% dwarf, 5% elf, 5% halfling, 2% orc, 1% gnoll, 0.5% gnome, and 0.5% goblin. Apparently, the creators of Faerun aren’t fond of kobolds.

[Metastachydium]

Okay, I looked up the demographics of the Forgotten Realms. In that setting, if you threw all the surface-dwelling (i.e., non-underdark) folks into a big melting pot, everybody would average out to be 80% human, 5% dwarf, 5% elf, 5% halfling, 2% orc, 1% gnoll, 0.5% gnome, and 0.5% goblin. Apparently, the creators of Faerun aren’t fond of kobolds.

From what I can tell, most published official settings (but especially Realms and Greyhawk) aren't terribly fond of anybody other than Humans.

[Millstone85]

I think your last line is not quite apt, but I generally like the point you made there.
I think it would have scanned better something like this.

"planetouched" include Tiefling, aasimar, genasi, and others of outsider lineage.

To clarify, the layman would only know of goblins, humans, lizardfolk and tieflings. They wouldn't know that a tall goblin is actually a hobgoblin, which is one of three types of goblinoid. Planetouched would likewise be a very academical term.

[KorvinStarmast]

Not really, no. Tortles are lizardfolk to the same degree that genasi are tieflings. The group at large is named after a lazily picked cohyponym in all other examples Millstone gave. Why does it only bother you here?

General to specific is what I was looking at. Tiefling and aasimar are two related lineages with bloodlines from differing planes. An aasimar is not a subset of tiefling, nor is a genasi. But all of them are plane touched (be it inner or outer) in one way or another.

[Metastachydium]

General to specific is what I was looking at. Tiefling and aasimar are two related lineages with bloodlines from differing planes. An aasimar is not a subset of tiefling, nor is a genasi. But all of them are plane touched (be it inner or outer) in one way or another.

That's exactly what I said. Cohyponyms. Just as a turtle and a lizard are cohyponyms as specific, but not interchangeable categories within reptile. It's exactly the same pattern in all examples.

[KorvinStarmast]

Okay, I looked up the demographics of the Forgotten Realms. In that setting, if you threw all the surface-dwelling (i.e., non-underdark) folks into a big melting pot, everybody would average out to be 80% human, 5% dwarf, 5% elf, 5% halfling, 2% orc, 1% gnoll, 0.5% gnome, and 0.5% goblin. Apparently, the creators of Faerun aren’t fond of kobolds.

From what I can tell, most published official settings (but especially Realms and Greyhawk) aren't terribly fond of anybody other than Humans.

FWIW, all players are human, and a humano centric world is the easiest to get into (conceptually). (Humans with hats discussion begins here, I guess).

To clarify, the layman would only know of goblins, humans, lizardfolk and tieflings. They wouldn't know that a tall goblin is actually a hobgoblin, which is one of three types of goblinoid. Planetouched would likewise be a very academical term.

Perhaps I was looking at it a bit more taxonomically?

[Metastachydium]

FWIW, all players are human, and a humano centric world is the easiest to get into (conceptually). (Humans with hats discussion begins here, I guess).

Most likely, yes. (I don't love it, though.)

Perhaps I was looking at it a bit more taxonomically?

Again, the other examples follow the same pattern, and taxonomically, a turtle is less a lizard than a half-human is another half-human.

[Millstone85]

Perhaps I was looking at it a bit more taxonomically?

We are in the opposite dynamic, where all the branches are now getting tangled. So even if someone has a recognizably scaly look, chances are they are still descended from a mix of scaly races instead of one. This might lead to many people forgetting what a dragonborn was and even being unable to recognize the difference when they meet one.

Edit: But I see now that, realistic or not, "Everyone uses that word wrong" is too annoying to be good worldbuilding.

[KorvinStarmast]

Edit: But I see now that, realistic or not, "Everyone uses that word wrong" is too annoying to be good worldbuilding.

Mixies is still worth a ponder.

[Metastachydium]

Mixies is still worth a ponder.

It either sounds silly, or like the name of a yet undiscovered kind of Sprite, though. (Probably the cucumber one. (I'll show myself out.))

[KorvinStarmast]

It either sounds silly, or like the name of a yet undiscovered kind of Sprite, though. (Probably the cucumber one. (I'll show myself out.))

Wait a sec, they made a cucumber flavor of Sprite?

[Telwar]

How about Melange?

(Bonus points if there's a really common spice for them...)

[Metastachydium]

Wait a sec, they made a cucumber flavor of Sprite?

You didn't know? Lucky man! Of a blissful life!

[Cluedrew]

The Edge Chronicles books called their version of a many-heritage race Fourthlings,* as they came from all four corners of the world. For this particular premise it might work.

That one hopped to mind for me too. That stayed with me, even though I found the Edge Chronicles to be a bit all over the place.

For instance, the world in the Edge Chronicles distinctly has three corners, not four, so the name doesn't actually work in universe. (OK, smaller rectangular maps still exist, I mean after all, the expression is originally from a world with zero corners.)

[Deepbluediver]

Find a nice nonsense word that flows nicely, like, I don't know, Lorelei.

When your player asks about it, say it just means people in fantasylanguage #4726

Nouns needs not be descriptive :)

Make up a word in any language other than common like Elvish or Dwarfish that you like the sound of, and then translate it any way you prefer. Like, claim it's halflingese for "people with many grandparents" or whatever nonsense floats your boat.

[Mechalich]

It's highly probable, in this situation that the 'mongrelfolk' would simply continue to use the name of whatever the dominant constituent species sourced their genetic material originally was. In most D&D-related cases that's going to be humans. As mentioned, a setting like FR is upwards of 80% human, and therefore mixing in a whole lot of dwarf, elf, gnome, and other species genetics is going to lead to a much more diverse population of human-hybrids who have bits and pieces of genes inherited from other species, just as modern Homo sapiens have bit and pieces of genetic material from Neanderthals and Denisovans. This is a fantasy situation, so the level of physiological variability may be quite high, but that's likely to be considered normal in-universe.

As such, these people will probably still call themselves humans. Instead, it will be the relict populations of non-hybridized humans who will find themselves obligated to adopt a different name.

[Witty Username]

I have this quote from Dr. Who cropping up in my mind:

Oh you have humanoids, demi-humans, even humanish,but you know what I call them, mongrels.

Drawing from that, human is a fair call, although you may have a radical faction that regects that notion - but anything from that line of thinking will sound slurry

Humanish, or near-human (term from the Star Wars d20 RPG for aliens that are mechanically human) would be ones to use, or in sci-fi's people will tend to identify with groups they have strong feelings for, which could get you the normal race stuff as identifiers.

I like metals and have been playing Elden Ring lately, so Mercurials could be something if you just want a word, quicksilver being associated with having a fluid nature.

[Tanarii]

'Humans'

I've been reading the Taltos series recently, where elves are called 'Humans' and humans are called Easterners, at least in elven lands.

I kinda like the idea that the dominant species calls itself 'humans', especially when they're arrogant and think they're superior.

[Grim Portent]

That one hopped to mind for me too. That stayed with me, even though I found the Edge Chronicles to be a bit all over the place.

For instance, the world in the Edge Chronicles distinctly has three corners, not four, so the name doesn't actually work in universe. (OK, smaller rectangular maps still exist, I mean after all, the expression is originally from a world with zero corners.)

Spoiler: On the Edge Chronicles

Show

I think the idea is that originally everyone lived in the Deepwoods, which does have four corners, and the guy who came up with the name had only ever lived in the woods and to him and his people it was the entire world. IIRC it was sometime after the Fourthlings first arose from a multi-racial society in the woods that they then spread out past the Twilight Woods and eventually settled on the Edge itself. It is a recurrant theme that the various mono-culture groups in the woods are generally content to live in their villages and not travel much, but Fourthlings wander a lot.

Of the 'huh?' parts of worldbuilding it's actually not an unreasonable one. I still have no idea how the mire hasn't become a plain of rock and rivers, I'm pretty sure the map has it constantly falling off the edge, and there's nowhere for new mud to be coming from.

Another option would be a familiarised form of Mongrelfolk, assuming they were ever called it by the other races to introduce the term, in a similar fashion to various slurs that have been adopted as terms of familiarity, kinship or even endearment in some real world minority groups. Not going to give examples for obvious reasons, but I'm sure we can all think of a few.

I can't think of any ways to do it with Mongrelfolk specifically mind you, a lot of what comes to my mind veers awfully close to things that aren't appropriate for a number of reasons.

[DammitVictor]

Old School Essentials uses "mutoid" and changes their background to magical/random mutation instead of... yeah.

[KorvinStarmast]

Old School Essentials uses "mutoid" and changes their background to magical/random mutation instead of... yeah.

While that's a good descriptive, I wonder if a group would self-identify as such.
I like mixies better, and have decided to tuck that away for future use. I thank to OP for asking this question as it got me to arrive at that pseudo-neologism.

[Psyren]

Of the ones I proposed I'm most partial to Amalgant, Cumulate and Kaleidon.

"Mixie" sounds like a slang term, possibly even a slur that other species would use for them I think. (Which isn't a bad thing to have in-universe, but a bit too simplistic/pithy for them to use with themselves, imo.)

[Prime32]

Old School Essentials uses "mutoid" and changes their background to magical/random mutation instead of... yeah.

So, 3e Fiend Folio describes them as "hideous creatures descended from generations of crossbreeding among the worst examples of many species", and then Races of Destiny says that those ones are the exception and most are just incredibly nondescript, open-minded people who live everywhere.

But according to the Forgotten Realms wiki, they originally weren't the result of crossbreeding at all, and are instead the offspring of doppelganger-like beings whose bodies are stuck midway between multiple forms. More like the Chimera Ants from Hunter X Hunter than anything.

[KorvinStarmast]

... they originally weren't the result of crossbreeding at all, and are instead the offspring of doppelganger-like beings whose bodies are stuck midway between multiple forms.

Looks like something that would come from a doppelganger trying to mate with a mimic.

[Grim Portent]

So, 3e Fiend Folio describes them as "hideous creatures descended from generations of crossbreeding among the worst examples of many species", and then Races of Destiny says that those ones are the exception and most are just incredibly nondescript, open-minded people who live everywhere.

But according to the Forgotten Realms wiki, they originally weren't the result of crossbreeding at all, and are instead the offspring of doppelganger-like beings whose bodies are stuck midway between multiple forms. More like the Chimera Ants from Hunter X Hunter than anything.

The latter explanation makes more sense imo, given that most of the myriad monstrous races that would contribute to the mongrelfolk's appearance are generally also the ones that aren't meant to hybridise in the first place. A kuo-toa, troglodyte and minotaur presumably cannot breed with one another for example, even should they be in the extremely weird situation that one or both prospective partners want to in the first place.

Them being the tragic byproduct of evil magic sidesteps the issue of 'why would their ancestors reproduce in the first place?' by making their ancestors shapeshifting spies with messed up genetics inherited from all their previous victims. Still doesn't really explain them having so many different traits, unless their progenitors were on a massive kill streak across multiple species, but at least you don't have to think about a goat-man and a fish-monster getting it on in the distant past.


I think if I were to use them they'd be a byproduct of magical experimentation, but in the sense of being made of the scraps of bodies harvested for research, alchemy and dark magic, which were then dumped in middens along with magical refuse. The random medley of magic caused the pieces to grow together and come back to a new, unbidden, life. No one wanted the mongrelfolk, they just happened because wizards wanted to test the alchemical properties of kobold eyes, minotaur spleens, kuo-toa bones and so on, and dumped the excess matter, which is to say dismembered corpses, away without thought or care for the dignity of their victims.

Looks like something that would come from a doppelganger trying to mate with a mimic.

To me the 1e art looks like the lovechild of Ben Grimm (The Thing) and a hippocampus wearing a damaged wolf mask.

2e is just the same art but slightly different.

3e is a really ugly goblin. Least interesting design by far.

5e looks like a badger-man with a duck foot.

[DammitVictor]

Looks like something that would come from a doppelganger trying to mate with a mimic.

You scoff, but when you're down in the dungeon... at least they are a great chest.

[Pauly]

Looks like something that would come from a doppelganger trying to mate with a mimic.

Who said doppelgängers can't be bards?