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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Conners's Avatar

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    Default Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    I was wondering how to make a more realistic AC system... I had an idea of the basics of it, but I need help with balancing the system....
    With this system you can create your own styles of armour. The armour table however will has ready made sets. I will go over how you might customize your own suit of armour, although you can just take one of the ready-made sets and customize that instead.

    You have a base Max Dex (Maximum Dexterity Bonus) of 20. The more armour you wear, the more it will be lowered.

    First thing is to select the pieces your suit or armour will be composed of.
    Loose Example of Armour Pieces:

    Helmet: 0.6 AC, -1 Max Dex.
    Mask/Visor: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Bevor (collar): 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Pauldron (shoulder pad): 0.4 AC, -2 Max Dex.
    Cuirass (chest piece): 1 AC, -5 Max Dex.
    Back Armour: 1 AC, -5 Max Dex.
    Rerebrace (upper arm): 0.2 AC, -1 Max Dex.
    Bracer (lower arm): 0.2 AC, -1 Max Dex.
    Gauntlet: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Fauld: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Tasset (thigh): 0.2 AC, -2 Max Dex.
    Greaves (per lower leg): 0.2 AC, -2 Max Dex.
    Poleyn (kneepad): 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Boot: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.

    Then, you take the type of armour for each piece. Light, Medium, or Heavy. After that, work out what type the majority of your pieces are, your armour set is then that type and you receive the bonuses and penalties that come with it. Aka: If three pieces of armour are heavy, two are light, and two are medium, then the armour is heavy. Should several types come to the same amount, then the set is classed as the heaviest of them. Medium and Heavy also require a certain amount of armour pieces, however. So even if you have an equal majority of Heavy and Medium pieces, you can't class your armour as Heavy unless you meet the required amount.
    Loose Example of Types:
    Light: -30% AC, +4 Max Dex. No Requirement.
    Medium: +2 Max Dex. Requires 8 pieces
    Heavy: +50% AC, -50% Max Dex. Requires 10 pieces.

    The material is very important to the strength of your armour. Some are lighter than others, rendering bonuses to Max Dex. Some are also limited to specific types (such as leather can't be heavy armour).
    Loose Example:
    Steel: +20% AC, 20% lighter.
    Iron: +10% AC.
    Bronze: ----
    Copper: -5% AC.
    Bone: -10% AC.
    Stone: ----, 50% heavier. No Light.
    Tin: -20% AC, 30% lighter. Light Only.
    Wood: -15% AC, 30% heavier.
    Hide: -10% AC, 5% heavier, +2 Max Dex. No Light.
    Leather: -15% AC, 30% lighter, +2 Max Dex. No Heavy.
    Cloth: -30% AC, 50% lighter, +4 Max Dex. Light only.

    You can add metal studs to Leather, Cloth and Hide armour.
    Metal Studs: -0.1 Max Dex, +0.1 AC, +0.1 Check Penalty. Per piece of armour studded.
    There are also rondels which were circular metal plates that guarded the joints of metal armour (the weakest point). These can only be added to metal pieces of armour.
    Rondels: +0.2 AC, -0.1 Max Dex, +0.1 Check Penalty. Per piece of armour with rondels.

    Metal armour has several styles it can be forged into, such as the light chain shirt and the heavy full-plate armour.
    Loose Example:

    Chain: +0.3
    Full-Plate:

    These are rough examples, of course.

    I've tried making a basic set of Leather armour with my system to see how it works...
    Armour Set:
    Chest piece: 1 AC, -5 Max Dex. Back Piece: 1 AC, -5 Max Dex. R Arm: 0.4 AC, -2 Max Dex. L Arm: 0.4 AC, -2 Max Dex. R Gauntlet: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex. L Gauntlet: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    R Legging: 0.4 AC, -2 Max Dex. L Legging: 0.4 AC, -2 Max Dex. R Boot: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex. L Boot: 0.2 AC, -0.5 Max Dex.
    Total: 4.4 AC, 0 Max Dex.
    Armour Type: Light: -30% AC, +4 Max Dex. No Requirement.
    Material: Leather: -15% AC, +2 Max Dex, 30% lighter.
    -45% AC. +6 Max Dex.
    AC: 2.53 = 2 AC. Max Dex: 6 Max Dex.
    The second and third digit are rounded down to .0, unless they come to .70 or more.

    Well, that's what I have so far. I still have to work in Check Penalty, and I have a heck of a lot of re-balancing to do. Oh yes, THEN there's adding prices to it all--fun hooray.....

    This system is probably to complicated to bother with, except for Custom sets of armour. Still, please give me your feedback, advice on what to add, and please point out any errors I didn't notice. Thanks very much!

    ((Credit goes to Durendal for the historical names and the rondels.))
    Last edited by Conners; 2007-12-10 at 12:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    The thing is it gets too overly complicated. It is much easier to get a "pre-built" set from the PHB and be done with it. That's what most people would do with this system anyway. It is much easier to have many different armors to choose from and be done with it. If you want to take it from a realistic point of view, you can't mix and match most of those pieces as you like, leather and metal don't always go together and a suit of armor was more or less standardized so there was no mixing and matching.

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Very complicated but also very intresting, I look forward to seeing more

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    I've thought about something like this, but it was no where near this thought out. Just to uncomplicate the system a little bit, I would:

    Change helmet name to half-helm
    Drop collar and make it part of full helm instead
    Shoulder pad, chest piece, and back piece as one item (since the shoulder covers the top of the shoulder)
    Arm includes some of the shoulder, since it would cover the side of the shoulder and it would be 1 per side
    Gauntlet one per side
    Go with half leg and full leg (includes pelvis)
    And leave boot
    Take out the other weird stuff
    Last edited by Tyrolin; 2007-12-09 at 01:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    The thing is it gets too overly complicated. It is much easier to get a "pre-built" set from the PHB and be done with it. That's what most people would do with this system anyway. It is much easier to have many different armors to choose from and be done with it. If you want to take it from a realistic point of view, you can't mix and match most of those pieces as you like, leather and metal don't always go together and a suit of armor was more or less standardized so there was no mixing and matching.
    Meh, I'm mostly doing it because I'm bored and trying to work out a way to customize armour... With realism, sometimes it might just be steel armour with leather boots and gloves (or vice-versa).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeril View Post
    Very complicated but also very intresting, I look forward to seeing more
    Thank !

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrolin View Post
    I've thought about something like this, but it was no where near this thought out. Just to uncomplicate the system a little bit, I would:

    Change helmet name to half-helm
    Drop collar and make it part of full helm instead
    Shoulder pad, chest piece, and back piece as one item (since the shoulder covers the top of the shoulder)
    Arm includes some of the shoulder, since it would cover the side of the shoulder and it would be 1 per side
    Gauntlet one per side
    Go with half leg and full leg (includes pelvis)
    And leave boot
    Take out the other weird stuff
    [Listens interestedly.]

    You have a point there.
    Hmm..... I'm not so sure...
    The shoulder pads should be separate methinks, though the chest and back pieces could be combined...
    Not quite sure what you're getting at....
    Sorry, I'm too tired to understand what you mean about that right now...
    Wouldn't that just minimize customization...? People may want normal pants, a chain shirt, and a steel pelvis...
    Boots are kind of important for some situations (like caltrops).
    Mask is for the steel masks samurai wore to protect their faces, Kneepad is interesting and decorative, Leg-Pads are also to make samurai-style armour (or Saiyan style armour ). I don't think I could remove them, sorry...

    Thanks very much for your help, guys! I'll edit the first post when it isn't 4:30AM ......
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Well, if you want to go through with it don't let my comment dampen your spirit. So in that spirit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrolin View Post
    I've thought about something like this, but it was no where near this thought out. Just to uncomplicate the system a little bit, I would:

    Change helmet name to half-helm
    Drop collar and make it part of full helm instead
    Shoulder pad, chest piece, and back piece as one item (since the shoulder covers the top of the shoulder)
    Arm includes some of the shoulder, since it would cover the side of the shoulder and it would be 1 per side
    Gauntlet one per side
    Go with half leg and full leg (includes pelvis)
    And leave boot
    Take out the other weird stuff
    I would agree with this set up better. The chest and back are really all one piece as are the shoulders and arm and the legs and pelvis. Though realize that some torso pieces lacked back armor to prevent running

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    One thing you may want to consider is using more realistic/historically accurate names for each piece of armor. A mask could also be a visor, and if you include either of these two pieces with a helmet I wouldn't bother with something called a full helmet (its redundent). A collar is bevor or a gorget. Shoulder pads are called pauldrons. A chest piece is a breastplate or a cuirass. The pieces of arm armor should be divided into upper arm (rerebrace) and lower arm (vambrace or bracers). Pelvic armor is really a fauld and it covers from the waist to the hips. Cuisses or tassets protected the thighs while poleyns protect the knees. Greaves cover the entire lower leg, and a sabaton is a metal armor that protects the feet. Also, a helmet made of mail is a coif. Another interesting idea would be to include rondels, circular metal plates used to specifically guard joints (the weakest part of a suit of full plate).
    Now that isn' to say that you couldn't call leather feet protectors boots, I'm just suggesting better sounding descriptors rather than "leg pads." Good luck with this, it may be complicated, but I think it adds a new level of customibility to a game where every mid level fighter has the same full plate armor.
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    Well, if you want to go through with it don't let my comment dampen your spirit. So in that spirit:

    I would agree with this set up better. The chest and back are really all one piece as are the shoulders and arm and the legs and pelvis. Though realize that some torso pieces lacked back armor to prevent running
    Don't worry, you won't . I'm just glad people are interested.

    Yes, but what if they want leather legging and a steel pelvis...? As I say, it's to allow better customization . Yeah, that's another reason I did the back and front as two separate pices .

    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    One thing you may want to consider is using more realistic/historically accurate names for each piece of armor. A mask could also be a visor, and if you include either of these two pieces with a helmet I wouldn't bother with something called a full helmet (its redundent). A collar is bevor or a gorget. Shoulder pads are called pauldrons. A chest piece is a breastplate or a cuirass. The pieces of arm armor should be divided into upper arm (rerebrace) and lower arm (vambrace or bracers). Pelvic armor is really a fauld and it covers from the waist to the hips. Cuisses or tassets protected the thighs while poleyns protect the knees. Greaves cover the entire lower leg, and a sabaton is a metal armor that protects the feet. Also, a helmet made of mail is a coif. Another interesting idea would be to include rondels, circular metal plates used to specifically guard joints (the weakest part of a suit of full plate).
    Now that isn' to say that you couldn't call leather feet protectors boots, I'm just suggesting better sounding descriptors rather than "leg pads." Good luck with this, it may be complicated, but I think it adds a new level of customibility to a game where every mid level fighter has the same full plate armor.
    WOW, THANKS ! I was really worried about the fact my namesfor equipment were so... unofficial. I'll get to work on replacing the names wit the ones you've given me, thanks heaps .
    Edit: One note on mask however, is that I originally intended it to me the metal masks samurai used to guard their faces. I'll make it mask/visor .
    Last edited by Conners; 2007-12-10 at 12:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Wouldn't bone be lighter?

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chancellor View Post
    Wouldn't bone be lighter?
    As I said, those were rough examples for material. Bone armour would probably have to be pretty thick to be any good, though....
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    whoah, D&D combat is allreadt too complex at time without implementing fractional AC. Helmets arn't useless, they come with certain sets of armor, and those sets of armor would be less effective without them. It's fair to give a -1 AC penalty to someone not wearing their armors helmet if it has one, and if it doesn't a helmet wouldn't change things enough to grant an extra AC.
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    whoah, D&D combat is allreadt too complex at time without implementing fractional AC. Helmets arn't useless, they come with certain sets of armor, and those sets of armor would be less effective without them. It's fair to give a -1 AC penalty to someone not wearing their armors helmet if it has one, and if it doesn't a helmet wouldn't change things enough to grant an extra AC.
    It doesn't really have anything to do with combat directly, it just works out your AC. Basically, it's a method to work out how effective and encumbering your armour is after customizing it. After you do that, just write down the AC, Check Penalty, and Max Dex of the armour and you're all done, no complications to fighting. The only direct effect it can have on combat is if you have silver armour and are fighting a werewolf, or something along those lines...
    With your idea for helmets, it seems like a very easy way to get an extra +1 to AC... Fighters, bards, rogues and wizards would all be wearing helmets faster than you can say "overpowered player characters".....
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    This Reminds me of the Ulimate Eqipment Guide's Samuri Armor...the problems i've faced with that is Enhancement bonuses. I had AC from level one at 25...with no max dex..and touch at 10..but when the enhancement hit..it got stupid..i belive I decided it rule one enhacement per full suit of armor and that armor is bound together at that point...loose a peice and the magic wears off...made an intresting quest for the next campaign..to retrive the armor bits..

    Anyway..how would you deal with Magicing up this system?


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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    This Reminds me of the Ulimate Eqipment Guide's Samuri Armor...the problems i've faced with that is Enhancement bonuses. I had AC from level one at 25...with no max dex..and touch at 10..but when the enhancement hit..it got stupid..i belive I decided it rule one enhacement per full suit of armor and that armor is bound together at that point...loose a peice and the magic wears off...made an intresting quest for the next campaign..to retrive the armor bits..

    Anyway..how would you deal with Magicing up this system?
    Hmmm..... Certain armour won't have it's magical protection property unless you wear the full set, as with your system. Most types, however, will just be less effective. +3 Full-Plate gives you the "+3" because of the combined effect of all the pieces. Just wearing half of them weakens the magic to around +1 or +2. If it were something like armour of Complete Fire Resistance, then the parts of you covered with that armour would be immune to fire, lessening the damage total for attacks that hit the whole of you. Well, those are a couple of ideas anyway...
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    soo you'd have it give a .something enhancment bonus..sounds neat..but complex..must hear more...


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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    Hmmmmm, looks good. Needs tables. Should final AC be rounded up or down?
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    Default Re: Armour System. Helmets no longer useless.

    It does seem a bit overly complicated. Get your hands on a 2nd Ed Complete Guide to Fighters, and it has a table for combining bits of other types of armour.

    I'm also all for making helmets worthwhile - I remember a game (I think it was Chivalry and Sorcery...?) where wearing helms reduced damage from critical hits... (or was that Mordeheim... idk)

    In my games I handle helmets like this: If you're not wearing one, called shots at your head are against your unarmoured AC.

    So someone with full platemail with no helm (great big anime blue hair standing up like superman's fortress of solitude) gets called shotted in the head.

    -4 to hit for called shot, full plate allows a max dex check of +1, so you would generally only need a 15 to hit them (minus magical deflection stuff, etc). Take that you emo anime bastard!

    ..and if they argue "but I have no armour on my head so i should get my full dex bonus".... well, I have IRL worn full plate mail. It doesn't mean jack. You lose mobility everywhere. Not wearing a helm is just stupid.

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