What Are You Playing: 9 Years since the Last Dragon Age

[LibraryOgre]

On a completely different topic, as I mentioned earlier I've started playing Dragon Age 2 again and I have to say that for all its gameplay flaws... playing a force mage is so much fun. I don't think tossing groups of enemies in all directions across the battlefield will ever get old.

It was one of the draws of Force Unleashed on the Wii... combining the kinesthetics of the Wii controls with Force powers was addictive.

[warty goblin]

The thing with the original BG is that the intent was you'd pick-up 5 NPCs that complemented your character and pretty much just stick with them throughout the game unless one of them permenantly died/got fed-up with you, or you found someone later who you liked/fit the role better (hence why quite a lot of them have conflicts with each other). The 'recruit a pool of people you can swap in and out of the party' design wasn't a really a common thing yet.

Honestly this is still pretty much how I play RPGs.

[Cespenar]

Though BG1 also didn't flesh out its companions to become the setpieces that they became in the later games, so you have to consider it with that too.

Also playing Chants of Sennaar, which I'd suggest to anyone with a tendency towards linguistic puzzles. It's like Heaven's Vault but shorter.

[Anonymouswizard]

It was one of the draws of Force Unleashed on the Wii... combining the kinesthetics of the Wii controls with Force powers was addictive.

I still stand by the Wii as the superior version, it has one level I'm sad to see gone but I like having to revisit the Jedi Temple multiple times and the lightsaber duelling actually works (whereas in the next gen version it quickly devolved into 'and they blocked all my attacks again'). It's a shame because as much as I'm meh on Jedi Souls I'd have loved it's combat with Force Unleashed's level design (I am not a fan of open worlds at the best of times).


As to BG1, there's a reason I'm not too broken up about the Beamdog launcher not working properly on any of my PCs. First game I played, but it's missing a lot of what I'd expect from a CRPG these days

[LibraryOgre]

I still stand by the Wii as the superior version, it has one level I'm sad to see gone but I like having to revisit the Jedi Temple multiple times and the lightsaber duelling actually works (whereas in the next gen version it quickly devolved into 'and they blocked all my attacks again'). It's a shame because as much as I'm meh on Jedi Souls I'd have loved it's combat with Force Unleashed's level design (I am not a fan of open worlds at the best of times).


As to BG1, there's a reason I'm not too broken up about the Beamdog launcher not working properly on any of my PCs. First game I played, but it's missing a lot of what I'd expect from a CRPG these days

Stuff missing that you've become accustomed to in modern games is so often the nostalgia crusher for me. Why am I playing Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw? Because playing Privateer was too much work.

[Psyren]

I'm really, really holding out hope that Larian does a 5e+Divinity conversion of BG1 and BG2 some day. Or at least gets around to releasing DM tools so that somebody else can. Complete with running the voice acting and cutscenes through AI enhancement, or possibly converting the cutscenes to in-engine.

[Rynjin]

They'd need to re-record all the lines anyway, since they'd need to add a ton of NEW voiced dialogue to any remake.

[warty goblin]

Man, I hope whatever Larian does next is anything but remaking archeologically old games. They're too good, and too innovative, to squander years of their time on nostalgia bait.

Now if they really want to turn my crank, I'm holding out for Dragon Commander 2.

[Rynjin]

Man, I hope whatever Larian does next is anything but remaking archeologically old games. They're too good, and too innovative, to squander years of their time on nostalgia bait.

Now if they really want to turn my crank, I'm holding out for Dragon Commander 2.

Honestly Larian are huge enough at this point to spin off a "B team" like FromSoft did for Dark Souls 2 and use projects like that to onboard new employees. I agree projects like that should never take the place of a "real" release, but side projects like that are great for a growing company if they can afford it.

[Mx.Silver]

I'm really, really holding out hope that Larian does a 5e+Divinity conversion of BG1 and BG2 some day. Or at least gets around to releasing DM tools so that somebody else can. Complete with running the voice acting and cutscenes through AI enhancement, or possibly converting the cutscenes to in-engine.

Leaving aside the sheer amount of work this would require (edition war-ing it into 5th ed. alone would require a heavy redesign of the entire game's combat encounters to keep things reasonably smooth¹), this honestly seems a bit pointless. Not liking BG1 is fine. It's a niche game from when CRPGs were a much more niche genre than they are nowadays (heck, they're from when PC games as a whole were considerably more niche): it's probably not going to gel with what the modern mainstream audience for the genre wants because it's not that kind of game and if you turned it into one it'd basically not be Baldur's Gate anymore, so I'm not sure who'd be getting much out of it? You'd probably be happier with a BG4.

Besides, it's not like BG3 has that much to do with the preceding games in the first place

I think another problem with the NPCs of the original Baldur's Gate was that they were very spread out, so quite a few weren't available until pretty late into the game. On one hand, it makes sense that not like fifteen potential adventurers just hang out in the first town you get to, but it also means that despite playing the game fairly regularly since it came out there are some NPCs I've basically never used since they show up so late (and I don't really like making big changes to my party after a while, though that's admittedly a me problem).

Again, part of it is 'insurance' in case other companions have been permanently killed (the older Fire Emblem games also do this). But yeah, I don't think I've done a run where I finished the game with NPCs from the actual Baldur's Gate sections (although I have done so with all the Cloakwood ones, aside from Eldoth because, y'know, it's Eldoth).


¹a couple of notable things about 2nd ed. are that wearing helmets gives resistence to being critically hit and that spellcasting is disruptable by landing hits on the caster while they're casting. These are highly relevant to BG1 because it's a low-level game, so having options to mitigate bad crits and wizard alpha strikes are very important.

[LibraryOgre]

¹a couple of notable things about 2nd ed. are that wearing helmets gives resistence to being critically hit and that spellcasting is disruptable by landing hits on the caster while they're casting. These are highly relevant to BG1 because it's a low-level game, so having options to mitigate bad crits and wizard alpha strikes are very important.

Tabletop 2e didn't even include wearing helmets giving you resistance to criticals; 1e had a rule that, if you didn't wear a helmet, then 1 in 6 shots would be to your unarmored head, but 2e didn't in the core.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm pretty sure the assassin who ambushes you outside the Friendly Arm Inn is meant to teach you how to exploit the casting time system. Of course due to how it's presented preteen me just learnt 'mages should not melee', but the fight can easily be decided by if he gets a single spell off or not.

I also hate that fight because three quarters of the time I won he'd kill a party member, most often Imoen.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm pretty sure the assassin who ambushes you outside the Friendly Arm Inn is meant to teach you how to exploit the casting time system. Of course due to how it's presented preteen me just learnt 'mages should not melee', but the fight can easily be decided by if he gets a single spell off or not.

I also hate that fight because three quarters of the time I won he'd kill a party member, most often Imoen.

Dynaheir is the only smart mage, having her first proficiency slot in Sling. And traveling with a slab of erratic beef.

[Cygnia]

Just finished beating Iratus: Lord of the Dead with a stress team on the hardest difficulty.

[Resileaf]

The thing with the original BG is that the intent was you'd pick-up 5 NPCs that complemented your character and pretty much just stick with them throughout the game unless one of them permenantly died/got fed-up with you, or you found someone later who you liked/fit the role better (hence why quite a lot of them have conflicts with each other). The 'recruit a pool of people you can swap in and out of the party' design wasn't a really a common thing yet.

Back when game devs didn't know you'd be quick saving and quick loading every single thing you did.

[GloatingSwine]

I'm pretty sure the assassin who ambushes you outside the Friendly Arm Inn is meant to teach you how to exploit the casting time system. Of course due to how it's presented preteen me just learnt 'mages should not melee', but the fight can easily be decided by if he gets a single spell off or not.

I also hate that fight because three quarters of the time I won he'd kill a party member, most often Imoen.

Yeah, that fight is basically "did you use the wand of magic missile Imoen had to cancel his Mirror Image cast? If yes you win, if not he casts fear and you load your save."

(Though BG2 brought the bull**** back in ToB with Imprison, a no-save instant kill that hits you with a game over if CHARNAME was the target)

[Batcathat]

(Though BG2 brought the bull**** back in ToB with Imprison, a no-save instant kill that hits you with a game over if CHARNAME was the target)

You don't even have to wait until ToB for that particular bit of fun, considering a certain demilich with a fondness for spamming Imprisonment (excellent taste in jewlery though).

[Mx.Silver]

Back when game devs didn't know you'd be quick saving and quick loading every single thing you did.

No, they did. You just can't save during combat (and having counter-options means you don't need to reload quite as often).

As an side: if anything, I'd say 'not expecting the player to be saving a lot' is more likely to be a trait of modern games. Back in the 90s/2000s it was very much expected that you'd be manually saving frequently and in multiple slots (Fallout 1's manual explicitly tells the player that it has multiple save slots for a reason, iirc).

Dynaheir is the only smart mage, having her first proficiency slot in Sling. And traveling with a slab of erratic beef.

Yeah. Xzar and Xan can at least use throwing daggers, which admittedly aren't good but are at least ranged weapons. Edwin though is another matter, as is Neera in the Enhanced Edition (which you'd think shouldn't have been the case, and yet...)

Yeah, that fight is basically "did you use the wand of magic missile Imoen had to cancel his Mirror Image cast? If yes you win, if not he casts fear and you load your save."

Well, unless you get lucky and the patrolling guards aggro towards him and finish him off before he can snipe Charname, although that's not really a tactic you can rely on.
Or you could just skip the Friendly Arm Inn entirely and just head south, picking-up some different characters on the way, but that's a bit of a cop-out.


I do sometimes wonder if there's an alternate universe out there were different party comps were more popular and we ended-up with, idk, Xan as the series long comic-relief mascot NPC instead of minsc.

[Batcathat]

(Fallout 1's manual explicitly tells the player that it has multiple save slots for a reason, iirc).

I'm suddenly filled with decades old self-loathing, thinking about the time I had almost finished Fallout 1 for the first time (I was right outside the military base) and my only save file somehow got corrupted beyond help.

It certainly taught me that particular lesson better than any manual, at least.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah. Xzar and Xan can at least use throwing daggers, which admittedly aren't good but are at least ranged weapons. Edwin though is another matter, as is Neera in the Enhanced Edition (which you'd think shouldn't have been the case, and yet...)

The EE characters were mostly designed to be in line with the original unoptimised NPCs, so they have any number of mechanically unoptimal/incorrect choices. Like In Rasaad's case every single number and word on his character sheet.

I do sometimes wonder if there's an alternate universe out there were different party comps were more popular and we ended-up with, idk, Xan as the series long comic-relief mascot NPC instead of minsc.

TBH the "canon party" is the way it is because they're all on the critical path except Dynahier and they don't have any trouble with each other. And since the game pretty much shoos you towards being good Xzar and Montaron are probably not going to stick around forever. (Montaron is on the better end of NPC stat spreads).

[WritersBlock]

Tried playing Deus Ex with that GMDX mod and, I was not a fan. I mean, while it did add some qol enhancements and perks to go with your skill's (which was cool) It also adds some artificial difficulty(not cool), but the massive dealbreaker is that it removes the "what a shame" cutscene.

So yeah, I just use DeusExe and dx10 and its better.

[LibraryOgre]

I wound up using EE keeper to switch some things around. Since I'm having Khalid as an archer and my main is two-handed, Minsc got specialization in the Long Sword, which he now backs up with a warhammer in the off hand. Lowkey tempted to make him a barbarian, instead of a ranger, but then he can't be "Full plate and packing steel", so probably won't.

May also go in and fiddle with Imoen's thief skill percentages; once she hits 6th level thief, she's dualling into mage, and Minsc and Dynahier are taking an extended rest at the Friendly Arm... I want to get Coran and Yeslick while in the Cloakwood, and with me and Jaheira, we've got a good front line until Yeslick comes on board. But I also want Branwen with me, so who knows how I'll wind up.

[Resileaf]

I played BG1 not that long ago too. Went for a party made of most of the good-aligned characters, so Imoen, Ajantis, Kivan, Dynaheir and Minsc, with my character being a fighter focused on two-handed swords.

The most difficult part of this playthrough was the lack of a healer. I probably should have chosen Yeslick over Ajantis for a more well-rounded party.

[NeoVid]

Cassette Beasts has passed the total playtime I've ever put into Pokemon in all these years, and for the first time in my lifetime of gaming, I've come up with a game-breaking win button combo. I'm seriously considering putting together a video guide about it, since when I accidentally stumbled across the combo, the results left me sitting there slackjawed for a minute before laughing maniacally.

Of course, since I've never attempted to record, edit or post any game footage in my lifetime of gaming, that presents its own issue.

[Psyren]

Leaving aside the sheer amount of work this would require (edition war-ing it into 5th ed. alone would require a heavy redesign of the entire game's combat encounters to keep things reasonably smooth¹), this honestly seems a bit pointless. Not liking BG1 is fine. It's a niche game from when CRPGs were a much more niche genre than they are nowadays (heck, they're from when PC games as a whole were considerably more niche): it's probably not going to gel with what the modern mainstream audience for the genre wants because it's not that kind of game and if you turned it into one it'd basically not be Baldur's Gate anymore, so I'm not sure who'd be getting much out of it? You'd probably be happier with a BG4.

Besides, it's not like BG3 has that much to do with the preceding games in the first place


¹a couple of notable things about 2nd ed. are that wearing helmets gives resistence to being critically hit and that spellcasting is disruptable by landing hits on the caster while they're casting. These are highly relevant to BG1 because it's a low-level game, so having options to mitigate bad crits and wizard alpha strikes are very important.

I disagree on all counts.

1) The hardest part of the conversion has already been done. Every monster in BG1 and BG2 has been converted to 5e already, or has a close enough equivalent. Recreating the encounters would not be much work, and the ones that couldn't be for whatever reason could be easily replaced.

2) The sheer number of people that BG3 brought into the franchise means a guaranteed audience. Like, if a quarter of the people who bought BG3 were interested in a conversion of the prior two games, that would still be a smash hit in CRPG terms.

3) Some of the most expensive parts of the development, like voice acting, modeling, and cutscenes, already exist. At most they could be touched up with AI.

4) The 2e specific stuff like helmets reducing crit chance and casting being easy to interrupt are tangential to the experience and can be outright ignored. The core narrative is not so wedded to 2e rules that it can't be recreated outside them.

[GloatingSwine]

I disagree on all counts.

1) The hardest part of the conversion has already been done. Every monster in BG1 and BG2 has been converted to 5e already, or has a close enough equivalent. Recreating the encounters would not be much work, and the ones that couldn't be for whatever reason could be easily replaced.

Your version of "not much work" is not the same as any game developer's.

Making BG1 in the Divinity 4.0 engine would be just as much work as making BG3 was. Making all those art assets, making models, animating them, making sure those animations interact with environments and props correctly is years of work.

People really just don't understand how much meticulous labour it takes to make a modern videogame.

[Rynjin]

Yeah, all that was a weird take. Encounter design is one of the easiest parts of the game dev process; or at least the fastest.

And they can't just import ****ty bitcrunched 90s audio and run it through an upscaler lmao, it will sound like garbage.

[Mechalich]

Your version of "not much work" is not the same as any game developer's.

Making BG1 in the Divinity 4.0 engine would be just as much work as making BG3 was. Making all those art assets, making models, animating them, making sure those animations interact with environments and props correctly is years of work.

People really just don't understand how much meticulous labour it takes to make a modern videogame.

Right. Converting BG1 to the Divinity 4.0 would involve roughly the same amount of technical work as making a hypothetical BG4 in the Divinity 4.0 engine. All that would be spared is the writing component.

Besides, the nostalgia market for BGI and BGII is well-served by the existence of the Enhanced Editions of both games, which contain many quality of life improvements and enhancements and can be purchased for pocket change.

Making BGIV, something that will almost certainly happen now, is the priority project (though I assume BGIII will involve a 1-2 year long DLC production cycle to really bring in the money).

[GloatingSwine]

The best example to understand how showing things in a videogame is exactly the opposite of doing them in real life is that in real life if you want a big explosion it's really dangerous and difficult.

In a videogame you can have as big an explosion as you want, but if you ask a character to push their hair back out of their eyes your animator runs away and joins the circus.

[warty goblin]

As someone who never played a BG before 3, I have zero interest in remakes of the first two. I like Larian as a developer because they do weird and interesting and new stuff, none of which is really applicable to a remake of a quarter century old game. I also really like their writing, they absolutely nail a tone of taking their fantasy nonsense seriously while being 100% aware that it is fantasy nonsense that really works for me. I don't like Bioware's writing as a rule, I find it overly serious, and way too much a fan of its own characters, who often come off as very YA in the worst way.

I really cannot see any way that them spending two years or more remaking ancient stuff isn't just a complete waste of talent in every department. They can do better, and honestly I think the genre as a whole is better off if it keeps moving on.