Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[Anonymouswizard]

I believe Larian has said that they might be willing to do something for levels 13 and up, but because character capabilities grow so much they didn't. I suspect that'll be either an Epilogue DLC more directly facing the Dead Three or BG4 with your chosen avatar teaming up with an all new party.

As to classes, subclasses, and races it'll be either one or two with some story content or a set of big themed packs. I wouldn't be shocked if we also get some new or reworked subclasses in a theoretical Definitive Edition, the Fighter is crying out for a third decent option and I'd love to see Larian tackle the Cavalier.

[Bunny Commando]

Eh, that doesn't bother me. As long as the story and gameplay I'm getting is fun, what does it matter if I'm leveling up or not? I hardly noticed the lack of it after I hit the level cap in my first run anyway.

Doesn't matter to you, but leveling up gives most players a clear sense of progression and a good sense of progression is quite important for most games to be successful. And I would bet that to Larian a successful game is quite important.

I believe Larian has said that they might be willing to do something for levels 13 and up, but because character capabilities grow so much they didn't. I suspect that'll be either an Epilogue DLC more directly facing the Dead Three or BG4 with your chosen avatar teaming up with an all new party.

IIRC, Larian stopped at level 12 because they believed they could not properly implement higher-level abilities (it was in a Panel from Hell). And they have at the moment no plans for a DLC, just talks about post-launch content.
So I find rather doubtful they would release a DLC where characters might face gods, would feel really out of scope for the kind of game BG3 is.

[Psyren]

Doesn't matter to you, but leveling up gives most players a clear sense of progression and a good sense of progression is quite important for most games to be successful. And I would bet that to Larian a successful game is quite important.

This logic seems a bit specious. Do games stop being successful once you hit level cap? Progression doesn't have to be vertical.

I agree with you that we're probably not going to be fighting gods/archdevils/etc anytime soon, though.

As to classes, subclasses, and races it'll be either one or two with some story content or a set of big themed packs. I wouldn't be shocked if we also get some new or reworked subclasses in a theoretical Definitive Edition, the Fighter is crying out for a third decent option and I'd love to see Larian tackle the Cavalier.

I wouldn't mind Champion if we got the OneD&D version from the most recent playtest.

[Jophiel]

I mean, I wouldn't do that either, but that's because I never replay a game just to do some different option. I replay a game because it's good and I want to play it again. If I have different options I want to use when I do, that's just a bonus.

Sure, I don't think we actually disagree. But I don't expect any new races/classes to be coming along soon and so, by the time if/when they did, I'll probably be done playing BG3 for the time being. Maybe I'll come back to it at some point like I have some other games (I can always start a new game of Dragon Age Origins or Stalker:SoC or some other titles) but it'll be after a lengthy palette cleanser and not just because they added a new class or race. Which also means I have no immediate need to buy any new races/classes until I'm ready to play again on my own terms or maybe see it on a deep sale discount. After all, if it'll take me a year before I start Game #8, I can wait a year before buying the new race/class.

On the other hand, if there was actual new content for me to explore, stories to experience, etc then that's much more compelling than "Do the same thing you've done seven times now, but with a few new Genasi dialogue options". Not saying that I expect it to happen, just how I'd react to it.

[Bunny Commando]

Do games stop being successful once you hit level cap?

Depends. BG3 reaches its level cap relatively early in Act 3, which means that for most of the game you still have a clear sense of progression (your character becomes stronger and gets increasingly powerful abilities) and I believe Larian did a good job, still a decent chunk of the game to enjoy your high-level powers; a BG3 where your character peaks in terms of power in Act 1 or early-to-mid Act 2 would've been a very different game and I doubt it would've sold as much as it had.

[Anonymouswizard]

Don't you love it when you start a fight only to realise your artillery forgot to follow you from the other side of the map? I don't want to know why Gale was even doing in Isobel's room.

Anyway, finally got back to having Halsin recruited, so once I've decided he's allowed to wear clothes again it's off to finish this Act 2 quest before continuing with the main storyline. The current party is Dark Urge, Hot stuff, Bear Dad, and Prayer Girl, with Prayer Girl probably being dropped for Hero Lad once her Act 2 quest is done (at least for a bit).

Spoiler: Act 2

Show

I've rescued the gnomes and Tiefling siblings, but can't find a way to get to Mizora's target or the Duke, I'm presuming that's unlocked once I've finished the Temple of Shar?

[Psyren]

Depends. BG3 reaches its level cap relatively early in Act 3, which means that for most of the game you still have a clear sense of progression (your character becomes stronger and gets increasingly powerful abilities) and I believe Larian did a good job, still a decent chunk of the game to enjoy your high-level powers; a BG3 where your character peaks in terms of power in Act 1 or early-to-mid Act 2 would've been a very different game and I doubt it would've sold as much as it had.

I don't recall anyone saying we should reach level cap in Act 1 or early-to-mid Act 2.

Anyway, finally got back to having Halsin recruited, so once I've decided he's allowed to wear clothes again it's off to finish this Act 2 quest before continuing with the main storyline.

LOL

(Just hide his armor - and give him a harness!)

Spoiler: Act 2

Show

I've rescued the gnomes and Tiefling siblings, but can't find a way to get to Mizora's target or the Duke, I'm presuming that's unlocked once I've finished the Temple of Shar?

Both are in the very final area, so no need to worry. Finish up the temple etc.

[Jophiel]

Spoiler: Act 2

Show

I've rescued the gnomes and Tiefling siblings, but can't find a way to get to Mizora's target or the Duke, I'm presuming that's unlocked once I've finished the Temple of Shar?

Yes, neither is accessible right now.

[Anonymouswizard]

LOL

(Just hide his armor - and give him a harness!)

Oh he's in his casual outfit right now. Or casual lack of outfit really, maybe I should buy him some trousers...

Still surprised he was wearing underwear, I half expected him to claim that Sylvanis had forbidden if

Both are in the very final area, so no need to worry. Finish up the temple etc.

That's good to know!

[Cikomyr2]

Don't you love it when you start a fight only to realise your artillery forgot to follow you from the other side of the map? I don't want to know why Gale was even doing in Isobel's room.

It happens to me very often. Sometimes on purpose. As long as your artillery is not engaged in combat they can move freely around the map while the combat is stuck in place.

I use this very often, its great for ambushes.

[Eldan]

Happens to me every time I need to climb or jump over an obstacle. Someone in the party always decides to stay behind.

[Cikomyr2]

Yhea, but its not like it completely f*** you over either. The one thing about being caught as a split party is that usually in a real time environment your distant gang would not be able to join back in time.

Bg3 doesnt have that problem. Always check who is not in initiative.

[Eldan]

Nah, I quite often zoom in pretty far or look ahead to where I'm walking, so I've had several situations where I only realized that two party members are standing on a cliff 500 meters back when combat started. So they spend the first two rounds catching up.

[Errorname]

Ugh, this game is just generous enough with the saves that I let my guard down, and then whoops I need to redo like 15 minutes worth of gameplay.

[Anonymouswizard]

It happens to me very often. Sometimes on purpose. As long as your artillery is not engaged in combat they can move freely around the map while the combat is stuck in place.

I use this very often, its great for ambushes.

It almost always leaves the character rounds from the combat once they finally roll initiative. Plus in this specific fight I kind of wanted my casters centrally placed so they could hit waves coming from either side.

It, as well as IIRC stealthed characters not rolling initiative until they break it, is very useful when it's intentional, and annoying when it's just the game didn't decide to have a character follow. I will occasionally break group mode to start combat with a better position (or switch out of a conversation to set my party up for a conflict).

[LibraryOgre]

I would bet against that. That would involve both adding a lot of class-specific dialogue and a lot more new mechanics than a race or subclass.

In a way, that's a problem that a lot of newer games have... the specificity of choices, combined with everything being voice-acted, means that adding something like that is a far bigger endeavor than it was in games with more limited voice acting.

If I wanted to add Warforged and Artificers to the Infinity Engine games, I'd have to change the text of a few conversations, maybe... moreso with Warforged than with Artificers, since you might occasionally want people to comment on you being a robot. But that's just text, maybe with a few triggers in conversation trees (IF [charname] is warforged, THEN use conversation 1b). If I want to add a full NPC, I need a VA to do a few lines; an intro, some chatter if they're companions, that's about it.

Not arguing against the new version, by any means, just that it's a hurdle that makes some aspects of modding, either official or unofficial, more difficult.

[Bunny Commando]

I don't recall anyone saying we should reach level cap in Act 1 or early-to-mid Act 2.

Then I do not understand what you're trying to say. I say that a game like BG3 needs a clear sense of progression (so, leveling up) for most of the game to be as engaging as it is for many players and that a lack of it would've led to lower sales.
I do not see Larian ever increasing the level cap given their own statements and I do not see Larian releasing a story-driven DLC where characters do not progress vertically (again, leveling up) since I believe that a D&D game needs that kind of progression in order to be successful; it's certainly not the only thing it needs to be successful, but I would say it is quite important.

[Cikomyr2]

It almost always leaves the character rounds from the combat once they finally roll initiative..

Unless the people outside of combat approach the combat stealthily and takes care not to cross fields of visions?

I genuinely NEVER had any issue about PCs being far from battle, because the game was designed for relax leisure gaming where you can always have the people far away catch up as slowly and meticulously as needed.

Not sure what the issue here is.

[Psyren]

Then I do not understand what you're trying to say. I say that a game like BG3 needs a clear sense of progression (so, leveling up) for most of the game to be as engaging as it is for many players and that a lack of it would've led to lower sales.
I do not see Larian ever increasing the level cap given their own statements and I do not see Larian releasing a story-driven DLC where characters do not progress vertically (again, leveling up) since I believe that a D&D game needs that kind of progression in order to be successful; it's certainly not the only thing it needs to be successful, but I would say it is quite important.

I'm saying that you're conflating "sense of progression" with "more levels." You can in fact have the former without the latter.

Ugh, this game is just generous enough with the saves that I let my guard down, and then whoops I need to redo like 15 minutes worth of gameplay.

I've honestly been in the habit of saving before every conversation, every combat, and every few steps since my Black Isle days - never mind Bioware, Owlcat, and Larian.

In a way, that's a problem that a lot of newer games have... the specificity of choices, combined with everything being voice-acted, means that adding something like that is a far bigger endeavor than it was in games with more limited voice acting.

If I wanted to add Warforged and Artificers to the Infinity Engine games, I'd have to change the text of a few conversations, maybe... moreso with Warforged than with Artificers, since you might occasionally want people to comment on you being a robot. But that's just text, maybe with a few triggers in conversation trees (IF [charname] is warforged, THEN use conversation 1b). If I want to add a full NPC, I need a VA to do a few lines; an intro, some chatter if they're companions, that's about it.

Not arguing against the new version, by any means, just that it's a hurdle that makes some aspects of modding, either official or unofficial, more difficult.

Not that I'm advocating for official Artificers or anything, but I don't think Artificers are so different from Wizards in modern D&D that they couldn't just take their conversation tags. 5e Artificers don't have to be tinkers/engineers/machinists, flavor-wise they can just be "wizards who source their magic from objects."

[BRC]

The main reason I don't see Artificers working especially well in this game, at least not without a substantial rework from their 5e presentation, is that one of their core mechanics is "can make 2-3 magic items" and the game already gives you a ton of magic items far more powerful than what a low to mid level artificer can build anyway, and a lot of the fiddly utility magic items don't really translate well to the game.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm saying that you're conflating "sense of progression" with "more levels." You can in fact have the former without the latter.

I'm playing BG1EE, and I have to say... you hit the XP limit pretty early in that game. I've got two chapters left and I'm flirting with it.

[Psyren]

The main reason I don't see Artificers working especially well in this game, at least not without a substantial rework from their 5e presentation, is that one of their core mechanics is "can make 2-3 magic items" and the game already gives you a ton of magic items far more powerful than what a low to mid level artificer can build anyway, and a lot of the fiddly utility magic items don't really translate well to the game.

This game does give you a ton of items - but everybody has a ton more slots as well. I think it would come down to what infusions and replications are available.

[BRC]

This game does give you a ton of items - but everybody has a ton more slots as well. I think it would come down to what infusions and replications are available.

It's not that you wouldn't have room, so much as that, going by the standards in Tashas, your Class Feature items would pretty quickly get lost in the mix. Artificer infusions already kind of suck from the "Core class feature that feels cool and powerful to use" standpoint, giving you yet more access to something that's already very common wouldn't really feel like a worthwhile impact.

Like, it could certainly be done well. Larian redesigned several classes for the better. But "Can build magic items" would be hard to build in a way that feels cool I think.

What might actually work as a simple take is if Artificers got extra generic Magic Item Slots to equip utility items (Boots, Rings, Hats, Gloves, Capes, Amulets) into so you can be even better at being a magic item christmas tree.

[Psyren]

I don't think extra slots are needed. Yes, items are common, but thanks to Sturgeon's Law - the majority are jank.

Here's some simple things I think a BG3 artificer could do to stand out:

1) The ability to add properties (even generic ones) to existing items. For example, if you've ever debated between wearing your Deathstalker Mantle or a Cloak of Protection, now you wouldn't have to - an Artificer Durge could add the benefits of the latter to the former. Essentially, you'd be able to infuse any item, not just nonmagical ones.

2) The ability to recharge "per rest" items. Want to use that Haste Ring again without burning a precious short rest? The BG3 Artificer could do that, either x/day or with a spell slot.

3) Extra proficiencies - since tool proficiencies are no longer a thing, let the Artificer get the skillmonkey stuff like Sleight of Hand and Deception, plus the ability to gain Expertise in those. Now we have a skillmonkey on par with the Rogue, but who can do healing and crowd control stuff in exchange for slightly lower single-target damage and mobility potential.

[Anonymouswizard]

One DLC I'd love to see, and could conceivably be coming is more character creation options. Particularly faces, but also hairstyles and scars. I'd also like new body types, particularly men who aren't incredibly buff, but I can see the need to redo every clothing item as prohibitive.

[Errorname]

I've made my peace with the fact that there's probably not going to be any big DLC for this game. This being said I'm still really hoping for the standalone expansion / same engine sequel approach. Like all the systems and a ton of assets are already made, you could absolutely do a New Vegas sort of thing with a relatively quick turnaround. I want this game to be the dawn of a second infinity engine era, honestly

[Psyren]

I've made my peace with the fact that there's probably not going to be any big DLC for this game. This being said I'm still really hoping for the standalone expansion / same engine sequel approach. Like all the systems and a ton of assets are already made, you could absolutely do a New Vegas sort of thing with a relatively quick turnaround. I want this game to be the dawn of a second infinity engine era, honestly

This! Or at the very least they could work on giving us campaign/DM tools, so we can get to work converting all kinds of other D&D video games to this engine and edition. I was just watching Let's Plays/Retrospectives of the old school gold box run from SSI that spanned settings like Dark Sun and Ravenloft

[Zevox]

I've made my peace with the fact that there's probably not going to be any big DLC for this game. This being said I'm still really hoping for the standalone expansion / same engine sequel approach. Like all the systems and a ton of assets are already made, you could absolutely do a New Vegas sort of thing with a relatively quick turnaround. I want this game to be the dawn of a second infinity engine era, honestly

A same-engine sequel seems like a given to me. A game as successful as BG3 doesn't just not get a sequel, they're surely already at least planning what they want to do for that. And unless I'm quite misinformed, most developers don't want to just change engines willy-nilly. Unless they've got a good reason to think they're better off switching to another, odds are they stick with the same one.

[warty goblin]

Unless they do something very different (which is possible given these are the unhinged maniacs who gave us Dragon Commander) whatever they do next is going to be in some recognizable evolution of their current engine. It's what they used for both Original Sin games, and is pretty much head and shoulders above any other RPG toolset in terms of delivering a physically interactive world.

[Keltest]

If nothing else, we could easily see the next Neverwinter Nights game, or something else set in any D&D setting, as another game, or a downloadable campaign to be played in the BG3 client.