Weaker Vampire

[J.Gellert]

For the next few sessions, I am going to need a "toned-down" version of the Vampire, something that can be applied more easily to NPCs, and more importantly, something that will even work on the players.

I am considering a bunch of changes to the template, with the main goal to decrease the ECL to something more manageable. So, I guess I'm asking what's the ECL of a vampire with these changes...

1. No slam attack, and also no negative levels. I got rid of that a long time ago anyway, figured that if it was so every vampire in every campaign setting would probably train as a monk.

2. No alternate forms.

3. No gaseous form.

4. Reduced to 0 HPs means the vampire is actually destroyed.

5. Abilities: Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +4

6. No weakness to Garlic.

7. No Dominate. (At will? So why isn't everyone within a mile of where vampires live under mental control already?). Gain Suggestion (at caster level = character level / 2, minimum 5) instead.

Waiting for thoughts.

[Kizara]

Have a look at the half-vampire, in Libris Motris (I believe) should give you an easy baseline to start from.

As for dominate at will, its a bit of an issue but if you read the spell its based on there's a duration, and also as a DM you should give a limit to how much the vampire can have dominated at any one time. Such as 3 + 1/2 HD + cha mod.

[Soups]

It s a good thing you got rid of the slam attack. that is a +4 L.A. right there. The thing is, i think you just made the vampire template a +3. There are "fundamental"things about vampires...

1. usually allergic to garlic. It doesn't have to kill em like it possibly could do in Blade. nut maybe make it similar to the sancuary spell. they can enter, but are too sick to do anything.

2. hate light. You didn't change anything.

3. they do tend to have an alternate form. I think it is flavorful. Maybe you can fix it so when they change shape, thier hp doesn't reset.

4. They get strong and sexy. You did a good job. i never saw why they got wiser or smarter.

5. They have the power to dominate. I think it should still apply. just limit it to 3/day. I always thought you could only dominate 1 person at a time, anyway. maybe i need to read that spell again.

You did a good job at making it go down in L.A., but some flavor seems to be missing, but it is no big deal.

[Suzuro]

I'd have to agree with Soups that these are good ideas, but it takes some of the fluff away from the 'vampire' idea.


-Suzuro

[J.Gellert]

That's alright. The garlic thing will be explained to players as superstition of the peasantry when they try to use against the real thing, and while doing away with the shapechange may seem inappropriate, I've been giving certain vampire NPCs the Swarm-shifter template on top. I am opposed to dominate, as it is a rather powerful effect ("Now, kill your allies"). I think suggestion is more subtle and fitting.

ECL +3 sounds like what I was hoping to get, which is great.

I'll also have a look at the half-vampire, I had completely forgotten about that.

[Gralamin]

Take a look at this

[Mewtarthio]

7. No Dominate. (At will? So why isn't everyone within a mile of where vampires live under mental control already?). Gain Suggestion (at caster level = character level / 2, minimum 5) instead.

To be honset, I think suggestion fits better when you look at all the rest of vampire lore. In DnD, you're most likely to see a vampire just completely override someone's free will and have them start stabbing their comrades, even though most vampires are presented as master manipulators (at most, they'll order someone to present themselves unresisting for a snack). Dracula never took complete control of anyone; he just gave them a few irresistable commands. Can you imagine how ridiculously boring that story would have been if he'd had the ability to dominate people?

[J.Gellert]

Can you imagine how ridiculously boring that story would have been if he'd had the ability to dominate people?

I can, that's why I'm changing it

Gralamin, that's helpful. I like what he's doing with the powers, modelled after the Ghost's, I presume. I am not sure I like how the ECL is estimated in regards to them. Maybe additional powers could be a chain of vampire-feats that do not alter the ECL. In any case, thanks for the link.

[Talic]

Perhaps start with Suggestion 3x/day, and the ability to summon creatures, as per the MM entry. Take the stat suggestion shown above, and add the following:

Feat options:

Compelling Gaze
Prerequisites: Vampire, at least 8 class levels.
Benefit: Vampire gains Dominate, as the spell, once per day. The vampire can have a maximum number of creatures Dominated at any one time equal to his charisma modifier. In addition, the vampire gets +2 to the DC of his Suggestion power.

Mist that Hungers
Prerequisites: Vampire
Benefit: Vampire gains Gaseous Form, as the spell, usable at will, as a full round action.

Night's Protection
Prerequisites: Vampire, Mist that Hungers, at least 8 class levels.
Benefit: Once per day, when the vampire is reduced to 0 HP, the vampire automatically assumes Gaseous form, as the entry in the MM, instead of being destroyed.

Caller in the Darkness
Prerequisites: Vampire, at least 8 class levels.
Benefit: The vampire gains the ability to assume one of a few alternate forms, as outlined in the MM.

[Keld Denar]

1. No slam attack, and also no negative levels. I got rid of that a long time ago anyway, figured that if it was so every vampire in every campaign setting would probably train as a monk.

Just so you know, a "slam" is different from a simple touch. A vampire doesn't just walk around tapping folks on the shoulder and delivering negative levels. A slam is a form of natural attack, similar to a claw or a bite. It's abilites can not be conveyed through a flurry, since slam is not a monk weapon. It can be tacked on top of a flurry, at usual multiattack penalties for attacking with weapons and natural attacks. A vampire wizard can't deliver touch spells with a slam any more than a human wizard could deliver a touch spell with a dagger(unless he has a channel spell ability like a spellsword or duskblade). Similarly, a vampire monk can't drain negative levels with a flurry, since "unarmed strikes" are not "slams"

This is the reason why every vampire and their mother is not a monk. The mechanical tie isn't as strong as you think it is. Still, getting rid of slam is the best option, especially at lower levels. Nothing says "reroll your character" like 2 rounds of attacks by a vampire on a level 4 or less character.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I have no fondness for D&D's inbuilt vampires and have made a score of personal versions over the years. I have three variant vampire templates on my harddrive but they're all rather powerful.

A weaker version of the gaze attack would be one that paralysed anyone the vampire focused his gaze on, for only as long as the target remained looking into the vampires eyes or merely had a charm person effect that lasted a few minutes. The dominate with a glance thing is far more powerful than anything non-D&D vampires can do.

[Tyrmatt]

An idea that occurs is to have the PC's face the average vampire in a boarded up house in daylight. The more boards they shatter, the more sunlight comes in and his power level comes down. If they've got the juice, blow the roof open and they get a free pass to dustsville. I may have stolen that from a videogame boss...

[Craig1f]

To this day, I haven't been able to figure out what the heck a slam attack is. What does it mean?

[Starbuck_II]

To this day, I haven't been able to figure out what the heck a slam attack is. What does it mean?

A Powerful hit with any body part:
A Fist, a headbutt, a knee, a foot, or other thing like bodyslam.

All count as slam.

[Keld Denar]

To this day, I haven't been able to figure out what the heck a slam attack is. What does it mean?

A slam is a generic bludgeoning attack made by many monsters, including most undead and elementals. Its generic in the same way that a claw attack is the generic slashing attack possessed by many animals. It is a form of natural attack and carries all of the benefits and penalties therein. It can be used to make 2ndary attacks with approriate penalties the same way a character can combine iterative attacks with a weapon and a bite attack, for example. Slams never receive iterative attacks. A creature with a slam attack makes exactly the number of slams listed in its discription on a full attack regardless of BAB or advancement.

Hope this helps.

[kjones]

IIRC, the Goodman Games module "Into the Wilds" presented a goblin vampire that, due to various restrictions (granted, some were environmental, namely he lived in a little cave and there was an ass-ton of goblin liquor nearby) was an appropriate challenge for a 1st level party. A lot of their changes were similar to yours. PM me for details.

[Mr. Friendly]

Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

A vampire Monk or Fighter (or anything, really) could take a secondary attack with their slam and still get their full, normal attack routine.

Why more vampires aren't monks:

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.

Also, the reason D&D vampires get Dominate is that the literature ranges in degrees from absolute mind control to simple post-hypnotic suggestion. So it was pretty much a coin toss and they went with the stronger.

[Craig1f]

A slam is a generic bludgeoning attack made by many monsters, including most undead and elementals. Its generic in the same way that a claw attack is the generic slashing attack possessed by many animals. It is a form of natural attack and carries all of the benefits and penalties therein. It can be used to make 2ndary attacks with approriate penalties the same way a character can combine iterative attacks with a weapon and a bite attack, for example. Slams never receive iterative attacks. A creature with a slam attack makes exactly the number of slams listed in its discription on a full attack regardless of BAB or advancement.

Hope this helps.

I guess this is just what I mean. It's still so "undefined". So, it can be like a punch I guess, but they want to distinguish it from an "unarmed attack" so they call it something different.

[Talic]

I guess this is just what I mean. It's still so "undefined". So, it can be like a punch I guess, but they want to distinguish it from an "unarmed attack" so they call it something different.

It can be a backhand, so long as you convey it powerfully. It's a specific type of unarmed attack. Just as the entry: Longsword +15/+10 can mean thrusts, slices, or anything else you can really do with a longsword for the 1d8+str damage. How you hit is all in the description, not the name of the attack.

Having lesser critters fly across a room, and collapse against the wall, dead before they hit... That's an excellent way to convey a slam attack. So is a hammerfist punch that barely misses and splinters the wood on the door. Slams convey POWER (which is why they get 1.5 strength, same as a 2 handed weapon). Treat them kinda like the James T. Kirk double-fisted hammer punch (patent pending).