Grrl Power VIII: Hotter Than What's In Sydney's Lunchbox

[lord_khaine]

I just think the wording was confused and its not max mana as in a mana pool increase they were talking about.
Comic #1193 author comment said Tom had a mana pool that was about 50% larger than Dabblers.
Because he spend more time developing it. While Dabbler spend a lot of attention on tech stuff.

[Traab]

I guess I was just a bit confused by how OP succubi actually are. In no other game system I know can you convert other peoples waste/spare mana into your new max mana. This is actually super broken and would imply that succubi just naturally grow huge mana pools from a young age. I mean, if her master wouldn't tax her, Parfait would overtake her master, an established archfiend, who is also fed by Dabbler, within two years.
Probably Dave didn't think about these consequences and wrote whatever sounds cool.

Since it only applies to horny energy id imagine its a little less op than you think. Well, depending on circumstances. :p Id imagine a sexual scenario would be like the super brawl thing with vehemence, in that yes the succubus is burning energy, but they are absorbing at least as much from the events going on around them, so their "endurance" for lack of a better term, would be much higher.

[lord_khaine]

Since it only applies to horny energy id imagine its a little less op than you think. Well, depending on circumstances. :p Id imagine a sexual scenario would be like the super brawl thing with vehemence, in that yes the succubus is burning energy, but they are absorbing at least as much from the events going on around them, so their "endurance" for lack of a better term, would be much higher.

I think you misunderstood Rydiro there.
The complain was over if it was possible to increase the actual size of the mana pool this way, i think.
Hence suddenly having 100 times as much mana. And not on being able to refill quickly.

[Rydiro]

I think you misunderstood Rydiro there.
The complain was over if it was possible to increase the actual size of the mana pool this way, i think.
Hence suddenly having 100 times as much mana. And not on being able to refill quickly.

Rereading comic #1203, it still sounds like they want to steal peoples mana capacity permanently. Dabbler even clarifies that she doesn't mean just mana. Like stealing a kidney. "But its still okay, as long as you have a positive number of kidneys." Better I just ignore that.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm. yeah true. Dabbler does stress its Capacity she is talking about.
That is honestly one of the more dumb things in the comic for a long while.
At least from a world building perspective. Possibly even dumber than HenchWench.

It needs a lot of mitigating factors to stop, that it dont make sense, Dabbler dont have a mana pool in the thousands at her age.
When she can take a point just by sleeping with someone.

And while not as bad as a kidney, its still quite bad.

[Traab]

I reread the comic in question and yeah I think its badly worded. It seems to be sort of like one of those life drain spells in D&D that gives you temporary hp in that the target of the spell loses those hp NOW but regains them over time. If succubi actually permanently stole max mana capacity from people there would have been a holy war ages ago to eradicate the entire species. No spellcaster would be willing to let them continue to exist no matter how hypnotic their cleavage. Im guessing what they do is a temporary max mana debuff that goes away after a day or two so long as they dont drain all of it (hence staying in the positive) so it causes no long term issues to anyone. At best it might suck to be the local battlemage the night before the final fight starts getting your pipes cleaned only to learn it was a succubi and you are down to 80% max mana till the day after tomorrow.

[lord_khaine]

But then it would be temporary capacity. So yeah he is right. As explained this is a bit of a thing.
That was possibly not completely though through.

At best it might suck to be the local battlemage the night before the final fight starts getting your pipes cleaned only to learn it was a succubi and you are down to 80% max mana till the day after tomorrow.

Its absolutely a best case scenario that you overlook a hostile subbucus. But are still able to wake up, let alone move, the next morning.

There are ways to explain why all succubi dont basically have infinite mana pools.
Perhaps there are diminishing returns on this, to the point where its more effective to train regularly.
Perhaps you need to drain increasingly stronger people the more mana you got, to see any effect.

But no. This is one of the details its likely better to just ignore.

[Rydiro]

If succubi actually permanently stole max mana capacity from people there would have been a holy war ages ago to eradicate the entire species. No spellcaster would be willing to let them continue to exist no matter how hypnotic their cleavage.

The evidence that succubi really are sex pests to everyone but their masters is just piling up.

[lord_khaine]

Well to be fair. By that line of reasoning. Every pet is a pest.
As they take resources you could have used.

Actually by that reasoning.
Everyone else is a pest.

[Rydiro]

Well to be fair. By that line of reasoning. Every pet is a pest.
As they take resources you could have used.

Actually by that reasoning.
Everyone else is a pest.

They mostly don't steal from you and make you sick for a few days. And then roam towards their next host. You usually know the costs and risks for keeping pets.

As for other people... Most of them work and contribute to the the economy and society. Resulting in an overall net gain for available resources.

[lord_khaine]

I mean other peoples pets. They take resources you could potentially have used as well.

While for other people. Yes this also applies to the majority of succubi we have seen.
Dabbler is a troubleshooter. She shoots trouble before it has a chance to deduct from society.
Decorette runs a very popular night club. Supposedly those places are popular. So it adds to society.

[Traab]

Before I start, I know its doubtful he thought this deep into it, but I wonder if being able to increase their capacity is an evolved succubi survival trait? Remember their biggest weakness. Without a master they basically have a hole in their mana pool, which when drained fully leads to death. If your pool is a bucket, thats gonna drain really fast. If your pool is olympic, that same hole is going to take awhile to drain down. So they constantly work to increase their potential mana pool so as to create a buffer of survival time should they lose a master for some reason. Thus giving them more time to find a replacement.

Further deep diving into the potential ramifications, someone who has a great lakes sized pool may have that massive capacity, but its doubtful their master can supply the energy needed to fill it quickly. Meaning said super succubi might be able to cast a TON of magic. But then after exhausting their supply, it could take a very long time to replenish. At least, i think dabbler said the master supplies mana as well as plugging the hole, I may be wrong. She may have also been meaning the regular treasure type O infusions the master is responsible for providing her is what keeps her mana full. But that could still be a problem for refilling the tanks if they can hold way more than normal.

[lord_khaine]

He absolutely didnt think much if anything about the ripple effects of this xD

Though.. hmm.. it sounds like an exceptionally complex ability to evolve out of such low pressure.
If anything. I would think it more likely that would result in succubi less likely to gank their master.
Or who either had naturally big pools. Or suffered from less drain.

Though Succubi regenerate mana naturally. We have been told that.
Its an emergency feature they can draw on their masters pool if allowed.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Perhaps it's not an evolved ability? They're basically an external storage pool that grows larger when filled up, with a backlink to their master. They were originally designed slaves, could that be a feature that remained from back then?

[lord_khaine]

I do think the most plausible explanation, if we dont ignore this for being sorta insane.
Is that it an accidental ability that just come from a combination of being a tantric vampire and a mana user.
The tantric part kinda creates a brief bridge between souls.
And that allows the succubus to shave off a few bits of vestigial soul that didnt become an actual mana manipulation ability.

[Traab]

Sydney taking care of business in her place of business.

[Rydiro]

Sydney taking care of business in her place of business.

Maybe a little RomCom plot is a good distraction. Lets see if Parfait gets leashed by her angel-boy.

[Nettlekid]

Man, Dave really loves these scenarios of "I'm describing something that violates consent! But it's actually okay because it's cultural and the violation of consent is itself consensual. Except haha, here's a little gag to imply that the nonconsensual content *isn't* consensual. Lawl, tiddies!"

[Keltest]

Man, Dave really loves these scenarios of "I'm describing something that violates consent! But it's actually okay because it's cultural and the violation of consent is itself consensual. Except haha, here's a little gag to imply that the nonconsensual content *isn't* consensual. Lawl, tiddies!"

That definitely was not my read. It was straight up nonconsentual to me, full stop, with the abuse that implies. Theyre just young, so its petty abuse rather than something really horrific.

[Rater202]

I'm just gonna point out that "the inbuilt operant conditioning of a succubus's maliciously designed nervous system is powerful enough that a newly bound succubus literally can't say no to their master for about twenty years" was established right before Parfait lost control of her aura

I believe I pointed out that it was highly problematic either here or in another thread where I discussed this stuff.

I'm just going to repeat that until confirmed otherwise that I think succubi bonds are a much bigger deal than Dabbler implied and that she's and the other succubi are rationalizing hard when they say it's okay.

I'm fully expecting that the succubus matriarch council are gonna turn out to be antagonists later, and the fact that someone from Parfait's friend group feels entitled to have been her master and feels like Thom 'stole' her from him, coupled with this latest example of petty abuse that doesn't line up with what Dabbler said a Succubi's first master is supposed to do way back when she was established to b a slave sort of implies that thos strict guidelines and disprotitonately enforced contract she mentioned aren't as strictly regulated as implied.

[Traab]

Oh my dear god, she is wearing his old lettermans jacket and finds it cringe but isnt in enough control of herself yet as a newbie succubus to say no. What unearthly horror are we witnessing here? You know what I see here? Obiwan and anakin. Wait, hear me out. By that I mean, we have someone who is not experienced enough to have a succubus trying to do their duty anyways and probably doing a terrible job at it. The guy is clearly not mature enough to handle it properly and is getting greedy. I fully expect a comeuppance to happen soon. Again. Since sydney already casually stopped him cold.

You know, honestly? If he wasnt confirmed to be an idiot, I could see that being an effective training technique. Order them to do something they really dont want to do, but doesnt harm them in any way, until they have the strength of will to go "No, this isnt married with children, you didnt graduate from polk high, and im not wearing the faded memory of a time when you mattered!" A constant pressure on them to push back against their masters order will likely help them develop the resistance faster than giving random orders till they can say no. A more normal one would be "Wear this loose all encompassing burqa 24/7. Nobody will get to see your body, you cant show it off to anyone. And until you show you have what it takes to refuse, thats your new uniform."

[lord_khaine]

Oh my dear god, she is wearing his old lettermans jacket and finds it cringe but isnt in enough control of herself yet as a newbie succubus to say no. What unearthly horror are we witnessing here?

Yeah this pretty much sums up my reaction to the absurd over reaction as well.
Just better xD

You know, honestly? If he wasnt confirmed to be an idiot, I could see that being an effective training technique

Except. We dont have any actual confirmation he is an idiot. We dont have his grades or anything.
We directly got a comic text explaining that posturing and intimidation is how demons usually behave.

Demons are all about establishing dominance, which means the beginning of every commercial on Demon TV starts with “YOU PAY ATTENTION TO ME YOU LITTLE PUSTULE! IF YOU COME INTO MY STORE AND I FIND OUT YOU THOUGHT A COMMERCIAL WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR A BATHROOM BREAK I WILL KICK YOUR ASS! YOU WILL BE TESTED!”

Most people would be put off by that, but a lot of demons would think “I like the cut of his jib.” or “He’s no nonsense.” but also “I could take him.”

What I’m saying is Loki-horns-battle-axe-hammer guy here is trying to establish that he’s a serious guy. Sometimes you gain the upper hand, sometimes you get arm-barred by a neon-blue space noodle. It’s all part of the demon social contract.

It could for all we know so far be an established way of training succubi resistance. Give then something unsexy to wear.

Though honestly shocking how sheltered people are acting. Like seriously. Someone is made to wear a unsexy jacket, thats obviously really important to the owner,
and cant refuse? Thats should not even be CLOSE to register as a thing, compared to all the unhealthy stuff that take place in actual unhealthy relationships.

I'm just going to repeat that until confirmed otherwise that I think succubi bonds are a much bigger deal than Dabbler implied and that she's and the other succubi are rationalizing hard when they say it's okay.

And im going to repeat you are going to be proven wrong repeatedly on this.
As we have had closest thing to Word of God state its not a big thing.
We know succubi is free to pick their master. We know they are free to switch their master. We even know there are magic items to temporarily prevent the problems of being without a master.
We even got repeated Words of God statements, that the council of Matriarchs are extremely powerful and inflict disproportionate punishments on abusers.
Its seriously as if you have chosen that this is wrong based on a feeling. And now tries to twist everything else into supporting that point of view.

[Traab]

Yeah this pretty much sums up my reaction to the absurd over reaction as well.
Just better xD



Except. We dont have any actual confirmation he is an idiot. We dont have his grades or anything.
We directly got a comic text explaining that posturing and intimidation is how demons usually behave.



It could for all we know so far be an established way of training succubi resistance. Give then something unsexy to wear.

Though honestly shocking how sheltered people are acting. Like seriously. Someone is made to wear a unsexy jacket, thats obviously really important to the owner,
and cant refuse? Thats should not even be CLOSE to register as a thing, compared to all the unhealthy stuff that take place in actual unhealthy relationships.



And im going to repeat you are going to be proven wrong repeatedly on this.
As we have had closest thing to Word of God state its not a big thing.
We know succubi is free to pick their master. We know they are free to switch their master. We even know there are magic items to temporarily prevent the problems of being without a master.
We even got repeated Words of God statements, that the council of Matriarchs are extremely powerful and inflict disproportionate punishments on abusers.
Its seriously as if you have chosen that this is wrong based on a feeling. And now tries to twist everything else into supporting that point of view.

Ah I dont often read the full author notes so I likely missed that thing. I was thinking the dude was an idiot because of a combination the the letterman jacket thing (which is universally a sad thing to wear post graduation) and his whole strange plan to demand parfait from the secundus dominus anthraxian hell lord of misrule or whatever tom is. Also, I just realized i misunderstood something. I thought brelix was after parfait to create his own succu-harem, but its apparently aster that he claims parfait should be going to. Im not sure if that makes him dumber or not as he is acting kinda goonish here. Maybe its a thing where the dudes each want their own succubus and parfait was "supposed" to be with aster like lulu with brel. You know schoolyard chums and all that.

[Rater202]

We know succubi is free to pick their master. We know they are free to switch their master. We even know there are magic items to temporarily prevent the problems of being without a master.

We know that Dabbler said that, but the last few pages have people acting like people are entitled to a specific succubus.

The author rant below a recent page even explicitly said that Tom cut in line to get Parfait.

We even got repeated Words of God statements, that the council of Matriarchs are extremely powerful and inflicts disproportionate punishments on abusers.

And yet this guy i literally abusing his slave's inability to say know to make her wear his letterman jacket, which might not sound like a big deal but, you know, any violation of consent is a big deal. Inherently.

If he's comfortable enough to risk it then either those punishments arnet disproportionate enough, the screening tests that Dabbler mentioned narne't strict enough, or the Succubus Matriarchs aren't as on the ball at what counts as abuse as Dabbler implied.

[TeChameleon]

The difficulty here is that, as written, consent gets reeeeeeeeal murky when succubi are involved, for both sides of the equation. It feels like there's either a buildup to a strong, surprisingly subtle and nuanced commentary on sexuality, cultural expectations, and consent... or, as seems increasingly, depressingly likely, Dave is hamfistedly ramming his fetishes into the story and expecting everybody else to be happy and horned up about it too, rather than giving the slightest thought to the implications.

I've felt for a long time that anything and everything succubus-related is the worst thing about this comic, and really wish it would be quietly dropped and never mentioned again.

[Rydiro]

I've felt for a long time that anything and everything succubus-related is the worst thing about this comic, and really wish it would be quietly dropped and never mentioned again.

At least, Max is reasonably written. Her attempts at reigning in the succubi have been justified so far.
Sydney on the other hand, just goes along with all this dubious stuff.

Edit: I don't see Parfait using Dabblers memory-wipe spell. Probably just a continuity hole.

[Traab]

At least, Max is reasonably written. Her attempts at reigning in the succubi have been justified so far.
Sydney on the other hand, just goes along with all this dubious stuff.

Edit: I don't see Parfait using Dabblers memory-wipe spell. Probably just a continuity hole.

She may have used it before kore stumbled out there which explains why he even tried.

[lord_khaine]

We know that Dabbler said that, but the last few pages have people acting like people are entitled to a specific succubus.

The author rant below a recent page even explicitly said that Tom cut in line to get Parfait.

Entitled people. Clearly that shows the ENTIRE system is fundamentally flawed and should be replaced.
And certainly not like our own culture is basically swimming in them.

And yet this guy i literally abusing his slave's inability to say know to make her wear his letterman jacket, which might not sound like a big deal but, you know, any violation of consent is a big deal. Inherently.

If he's comfortable enough to risk it then either those punishments arnet disproportionate enough, the screening tests that Dabbler mentioned narne't strict enough, or the Succubus Matriarchs aren't as on the ball at what counts as abuse as Dabbler implied.

Possibly i was not sarcastic enough to show it earlier. But i do think its an extremely sheltered point of view, that making someone wear a jacket in clashing colors are a big deal.
And as such. Violations of consent happens ALL THE TIME. I didnt consent to 9 years of school as a kid. But i had to do so anyway. I dont consent to taxes. But i have to pay them anyway.

So far the actual subbucus abuse we have seen, is someone wearing a jacket. Oh noes.
The master abuse we have seen is Thot being stabbed in the leg by a soul stealer sword.
That does seem to indicate the matriarchs are actually on the ball.

Especially considering demon society is feudal and hierarchic. Meaning basically everyone is beholden to someone.
In a way that could make them end up forced to wear a yellow/green jacket. Being highly desired and having a powerful cabal looking over them?
The Succubi likely have it better than anyone else in demon society.

And hence i also find it a little peculiar to think Dabbler of everyone can be wrong on this stuff.
She is about 300 years old, to smart to be measured on the human scale, and having traveled the entire galaxy, exploring different cultures.
Anyone waiting for her to be proven wrong is likely in for a very long wait. Unless Deus is involved. Else i think its safe to assume what she says is Word of God.

or, as seems increasingly, depressingly likely, Dave is hamfistedly ramming his fetishes into the story and expecting everybody else to be happy and horned up about it too, rather than giving the slightest thought to the implications.

Eh. Problem is. Everything can be a fetish. So its impossible to say when its rammed in or not. Well except for the thing about fit girls.
The author obviously likes a bit of muscle tone. While as for implications. Problem there is people see what they want to see.
So they are impossible to control.

[TeChameleon]

Eh. Problem is. Everything can be a fetish. So its impossible to say when its rammed in or not. Well except for the thing about fit girls. The author obviously likes a bit of muscle tone.

While as for implications. Problem there is people see what they want to see.
So they are impossible to control.

... everything can be a fetish, aye.

But I'd say that when you're talking about an all-female species of biologically-obligate bisexual sex addicts whose very existence revolves around sex, and their 'culture' is rife with (frankly weird and kind of poorly thought out) randomly-swapping dom/sub over-, under-, and everything-in-between-tones... the probability of it being a fetish goes up somewhat.

[Traab]

... everything can be a fetish, aye.

But I'd say that when you're talking about an all-female species of biologically-obligate bisexual sex addicts whose very existence revolves around sex, and their 'culture' is rife with (frankly weird and kind of poorly thought out) randomly-swapping dom/sub over-, under-, and everything-in-between-tones... the probability of it being a fetish goes up somewhat.

I mean, we are literally talking about sex demons here, he didnt invent the concept. What he did was put his own sci fi/fantasy mashup spin on things. We also got a bit of a deep dive on were beings and how they work, its just, pixel (I think thats the werejaguar) isnt a main cast member nor is werehare so we dont interact with them enough to get a lot more info from the source. Heck, we even covered a bit of vampires and how their power works based on age and age of sire for new vamps. In between talks on nuclear vessels. It honestly feels more like his best shot at thinking of a way to have succubi that arent either terrifying monsters who enslave empires to fuel their needs or poor abused victims who have no choice in what they do or how they live. He gave them a new backstory to explain their origins and issues, then came up with a fairly rational way to handle it without it being terrible. Its not perfect, but then neither is life in general. I just think some of you guys have decided its terrible therefore have to twist everything to its most negative possible interpretation in order to go "SEE?!?!?! ITS AWFUL AND GROSS AND HE SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR WRITING THIS!"