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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Frankly, I think I would be comfortable removing the ANB from the BFS list on the timing criteria. It was already wild and largely baseless speculation that squeezed it in there, and now an attempt at verifying it has come up in the negative. Even if we can't be sure its actually the author, the lack of any evidence at all in the positive after a deliberate attempt to hunt some down says to me that we should probably default to treating it like every other monster with a timing issue.

    Or to put it another way, it was basically decided to ignore the problem because people liked the candidate. Im perfectly fine with us deciding to just stop ignoring the problem, whether because the proposed explanation is even less plausible now or just because we dont feel like ignoring it anymore.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2024-02-16 at 10:33 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #662
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    HalflingWizardGirl

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    I can send some pictures of people I talked to to find Kamelion's Reddit account, though I suppose that can't conclusively prove it. Would it help if I showed that the account in question is from 2016, so I couldn't have made it for the sole purpose of this post?

  3. - Top - End - #663
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    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by Elanfanforlife View Post
    I can send some pictures of people I talked to to find Kamelion's Reddit account, though I suppose that can't conclusively prove it. Would it help if I showed that the account in question is from 2016, so I couldn't have made it for the sole purpose of this post?
    I cannot imagine you could provide bulletproof evidence, not just from accounts on the internet, and especially with the original post being gone. But you've already got Keltest's vote to back you up, and like I said, I won't fight you on this, so assuming no-one objects, I'd be ok on doing the reclassification on those two positive votes.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2024-02-16 at 11:19 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #664
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by Elanfanforlife View Post
    I have some news; Kamelion finally responded, and it turns out that he did not send the Athasian Nightmare Beast to anyone before he wrote it up, which he did on the 1st of July 2005. This means that the ANB should be removed from the FBS. The screenshot is attached here.
    https://ibb.co/nCLNNN9
    Wow, great job! That's really fun.

    Hmm. I'm torn on pulling the ANB from the FBS. On the one hand, I believe Kamelion didn't send Rich a preview copy, and I guess its possible he's not the real Kamelion but I feel that's overzealous. On the other hand, that doesn't mean Rich didn't get a copy *somehow*. I guess I'd lean towards keeping ANB on with the Con that "it is possible Rich *couldn't* have seen the ANB before creating MitB" but I could go either way.

    Oh, wait. I see, July 1st of 2005 is obviously way too late, that won't work.

    Except, ugh, I think he's wrong about having written it on 7/1/2005. I mean, he posted his draft of the ANB on 6/30/2005 (5:15 pm, server time. Its at the top of the post). He probably wrote it, fiddled with it for a while, posted it for feedback, and then maybe did an edit and saved an updated version on 7/1/2005 which is the date he saw when he checked?

    I certainly wouldn't remember the exact (or even vague) date of something I wrote ~20 years ago. Heh, just remembered that, backing my statement up, 20-25 years ago I had a phase where I did some writing and had a number of articles published in trade publications. Today, I couldn't even tell you how many of them there were, let alone the specific *year* for any of them, much less the month or day.

    Or maybe the server time is different from his time zone, so maybe it was 7/1 when he posted it (for him) which was the same day he wrote it, but it was only 6/30 server time? Seems unlikely, but its possible.

    Which means that he *probably* wrote it after strip #100, because while the 7/1 date probably isn't correct, he probably also didn't spend literal months working on it. Unless he did? Because whether it was a matter of hours or months depends on a zillion things, none of which we know.

    Note: I've now gone from: "Just list it as a 'Con'" to "Oh, yeah, we should pull it" back to "Eh, maybe it is just a 'Con'? I dunno.'" plus I've edited this like 10 times. Unsure if I'll vote.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2024-02-16 at 04:16 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #665
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    Tubercular Ox's Avatar

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Which means that he *probably* wrote it after strip #100, because while the 7/1 date probably isn't correct, he probably also didn't spend literal months working on it.
    If you don't think it's all a scam cooked up by Elanfanforlife, go with this one. "I wrote up the ANB and posted it on the old WotC boards right away," is a weird way to remember 10 months of playtesting.
    Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2024-02-16 at 06:07 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #666
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    I'm also voting in favour of removing the ANB. We don't have to apply court of law standards here; the evidence presented is strong enough that it's gone from "really unlikely but possible if you squint" to "yeah, this didn't happen".

  7. - Top - End - #667
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Record me as another positive vote, I have no problem removing the ANB on this evidence.
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  8. - Top - End - #668
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    I trust the source. Remove the ANB.

  9. - Top - End - #669
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Also voting to remove the ANB on the grounds of Elanfanforlife’s investigative work and discovery.
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  10. - Top - End - #670
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    If you don't think it's all a scam cooked up by Elanfanforlife, go with this one. "I wrote up the ANB and posted it on the old WotC boards right away," is a weird way to remember 10 months of playtesting.
    Eh, I doubt he'd have spent any time at all, let alone months, playtesting a single monster entry. More than likely, they said "Write up a bunch of monsters, we need them by X date" with X date being alarmingly soon (days, or maybe a few weeks if he was lucky, certainly not months), because that's how deadlines usually go.

    But, publication dates can be inconsistent, so he could have been asked to work on them but right after getting started they might have followed up with "Oh, wait, hang onto them for a while. We're shelving that for a bit to focus on project Y instead and we need you to work on stuff for that instead." Resulting in the half-done monsters sitting for months until the original project is back to being the priority. That totally happens as well, and 20 years later his memory of the details and timelines of those projects probably don't even count as a "blur" anymore.

    So, yeah, its probable ANB didn't exist at all when Strip 100 was written, and I'm not going to argue in favor of keeping it. But I have enough doubt that I'm not going to vote to dump it.
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