MitD XIX: The Potted Plant Is Starting To Look Reasonable

[DreadedHaggard]

Long time reader and lurker, made this account after getting lost in the rabbit hole of this thread . Here to add my vote for the Protean.

[Tubercular Ox]

Then I assume you object to every creature suggested so far, including yours?

We're still negotiating where the bar is.

The monster quite explicitly doesn't fully understand what he is or what he's capable of.

The monster is his own individual with his own personality which is clearly unconventional for his ilk.

Yes, if you apply the Therblewurkersaurus template, the modified Protean fits every scene. But it's not printed anywhere, so I'm not sure why new readers will jump to that conclusion instead of, "Rich changed his mind."

That said, a +53 Diplomacy does match up pretty cleanly with his "Trenchant Political Analysis", and it'd be neat if the joke clue was an actual clue.

Yes! I love this.

I suspect a more common reaction would be to not question it. The thing about a Protean that's shared with all the candidates is that it's not a super well known monster, to a casual reader who hasn't been pouring over the 'what is the MITD' theory game they probably will not notice or care. Especially when you aren't scouring the book for hints and are just enjoying the story.

Sure, but the uncommon reaction is still going to flush people into this thread. Look at the people who keep coming back with the same arguments after 7-8 years of trying. They're uncommon, and all of their complaints are of the form, "If Rich wanted a Protean, why didn't he do X instead?"

None of their complaints are going to be cleared by the reveal, it's just going to be revealed that he did want it but still didn't do X. Except every once in a while there's going to be a new guy who isn't going to accept, "We went over this before you arrived," as an excuse.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Long time reader and lurker, made this account after getting lost in the rabbit hole of this thread .

My condolences/apologies/appreciation. All three, really. Same to all other lurkers.

Here to add my vote for the Protean.

One tiny nitpick: it's a guess entry, not a vote. This ain't some kind of grand experiment where MitD depends on who we like. Which would be a terrible way to write a story, anyway, as countless examples have demonstrated. While I won't claim it's the worst possible writing advice ever (I'm sure I could come up with even worse, but why would I want to?), "listened to what the fans want" is commonly associated with some of the worst disasters in storytelling.

But you knew that, and I knew that, and thus this is just a nitpick.

GW

[Errorname]

Yes, if you apply the Therblewurkersaurus template, the modified Protean fits every scene. But it's not printed anywhere, so I'm not sure why new readers will jump to that conclusion instead of, "Rich changed his mind."

It is not unreasonable to assume that Order of the Stick, a story which is at least partially about unpacking the problems with the traditional D&D approach to monsters, is willing to give a monster a personality that doesn't perfectly match what's described in it's statbook.

Sure, but the uncommon reaction is still going to flush people into this thread. Look at the people who keep coming back with the same arguments after 7-8 years of trying. They're uncommon, and all of their complaints are of the form, "If Rich wanted a Protean, why didn't he do X instead?". None of their complaints are going to be cleared by the reveal, it's just going to be revealed that he did want it but still didn't do X.

Would people still argue with the same intensity once the matter is settled? I kind of doubt it honestly. While you're right that the Protean isn't a strong match for the hunter scene, it's also not strongly contradicted by it. It would be strange to see a creature that looked like the Protean speak at all, let alone common, it'd be an unexpected sight, it probably doesn't smell great, none of it is unreasonable to say about a Protean despite not being the cleanest match for the description.

You're latching onto the imperfect match because you're arguing against the Protean, but I doubt post-reveal readers will be examining the scene as closely. The focus will likely be on the monster as a character and his place in the story, rather than trying to identify as many diagnostic traits as possible.

[Peelee]

We're still negotiating where the bar is.

It sounds like the bar is "if other monsters aren't perfect fits then they're bad but if my monster isn't a perfect fit then it's not a problem".

Or maybe "if this specific monster isn't a perfect fit then it's bad but if any other monster isn't a perfect fit then it's not a problem".

Either way it's a bad argument. All our nothing buddy.

My condolences/apologies/appreciation. All three, really. Same to all other lurkers.

I vote for MitD XX: Lurkers, I'm So Sorry.

[Emberlily]

I think an important thing to remember in general is that Order of the Stick is not about the identity of the monster's species. it's not even remotely about it. it's not about the monster, either. he's an important character, sure, but he's firmly secondary. and even within his own narrative, what he is, physically is not what his story is about; he's a full character with a role and a personality and an arc. it's just one part of it, but even tho it's by far one that leave the most room for discussion and "games" of the guessing/deduction/debate kind (see, again, 19 threads!), the guessing game aspect is subordinate to all of the ways the monster is important to the story.

(this, btw, is what sold me personally on the protean; it's the only one I've so far seen a way where What It Is can be satisfyingly tied into its character/narrative aspects without relying on esoteric D&D monster trivia, which the comic has long since moved away from relying on for more than small jokes. but I don't expect anyone here has fully predicted the monster's story so it could also very well be something different and I get ppl not being sold on the protean themselves. but when it happens I sincerely doubt it won't be something that ties things in without relying on obscure minutia, whatever the answer turns out to be)

if nothing else, remember that the comic will one day end and What The Monster Is will be open for anyone to know even before they start reading the comic for the first time. and the monster is almost certainly being written with the intent to be just as interesting even with the guessing game mystery element entirely gone

[brian 333]

It is not unreasonable to assume that Order of the Stick, a story which is at least partially about unpacking the problems with the traditional D&D approach to monsters, is willing to give a monster a personality that doesn't perfectly match what's described in it's statbook.



Would people still argue with the same intensity once the matter is settled? I kind of doubt it honestly. While you're right that the Protean isn't a strong match for the hunter scene, it's also not strongly contradicted by it. It would be strange to see a creature that looked like the Protean speak at all, let alone common, it'd be an unexpected sight, it probably doesn't smell great, none of it is unreasonable to say about a Protean despite not being the cleanest match for the description.

You're latching onto the imperfect match because you're arguing against the Protean, but I doubt post-reveal readers will be examining the scene as closely. The focus will likely be on the monster as a character and his place in the story, rather than trying to identify as many diagnostic traits as possible.

I think post-reveal readers will comb through every page of the comic and every forum post having anything remotely to do with MitD, both to say, "I told you so," and to prove that the author did whatever their pet theory claims he did. There will be another ten years of MitD threads after the reveal discussing everything from "Why you were wrong," to "This is how it shoulda been done!"

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think post-reveal readers will comb through every page of the comic and every forum post having anything remotely to do with MitD, both to say, "I told you so," and to prove that the author did whatever their pet theory claims he did. There will be another ten years of MitD threads after the reveal discussing everything from "Why you were wrong," to "This is how it shoulda been done!"

While I do not doubt that there will be people who will decide to discuss the reveal (especially the all-important "how did he do X", because I long ago gave up the hope that the revealed creature will have the holy trinity of strength, wish and earthquake), I don't think it'll take that long to hash out. It'll happen, of course, just as the Miko, Bandana and Hilgya debates happened (although MitD, lacking a crucial characteristic shared by those three, probably won't be as bad).

But I do want to point out that "forum members" are not interchangeable with "readers". Most readers don't feel the need to be in the forum, don't care about rules minutia, and probably will greet the reveal of some species of monster they can't name, and never cared enough to try and name, with a "huh, ok" and will keep enjoying the story. "Readers who care what MitD's species is" is a minority within a minority, and "readers who care enough about MitD to try to piece together the clues" are a minority within that.

Grey Wolf

[halfeye]

Ok, fair enough. So, what's a monster that MitD has been written in such a way that there are no hints against it being that species?

A Boojum: as a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible, which fits the scene in SoD at the circus where the MitD is being fed in low light and isn't visible at all. As a Boojum it's also dangerous and presumably strong. There are undoubtedly a thousand other monsters from the history of literature which are now forgotten that fit, but being forgotten is a big downside.

That we're on thread #19 of this should suggest really, really strongly that there's no such monster, and I say this as someone who's not particularly a fan of the Protean as a candidate. You're basically setting an impossible standard (within the confines of the guessing game) and kind of insulting the Giant's storytelling.

If the Giant has made hints against the species that the MitD actually is, that would be a demerit to his storytelling. Which is my main reason for believing that the MitD is not a protean.

I think it's important that Rich said, and I'm quoting directly with my own emphasis, "Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is, either."

He could have said "everything before strip #100 falls under standard behavior for what it is." He could have said "nothing before strip #100 is unusual or unexpected for what it is." He didn't, and I think he chose that phrase deliberately.

A Protean in magical darkness only having two eyes consistently visible does not contradict the truth of the species. It may not be what many of you expect to happen, but there's a difference between "unexpected from a species" and "contradicts the truth of the species."

I disagree that a protean only having two statically placed eyes does not contradict the truth of it's being a protean. It is not the case that the MitD only had static eyes before comic #100, he's had them in every comic since then too, which is a pretty big hint that the MitD is not the particular type of protean whose flesh continually boiis.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A Boojum: as a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible, which fits the scene in SoD at the circus where the MitD is being fed in low light and isn't visible at all. As a Boojum it's also dangerous and presumably strong. There are undoubtedly a thousand other monsters from the history of literature which are now forgotten that fit, but being forgotten is a big downside.

1) An invisible creature does not fit the circus scene, where the public clearly can see MitD.
b) "a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible" is headcanon.
iii) "being forgotten" is not a downside. Nothing requires MitD's species to be well known.

I disagree that a protean only having two statically placed eyes does not contradict the truth of it's being a protean. It is not the case that the MitD only had static eyes before comic #100, he's had them in every comic since then too, which is a pretty big hint that the MitD is not the particular type of protean whose flesh continually boiis.

So you, and several others, have said before. But beyond your feelings about it, the reality is that no, a protean is not required to constantly shift its eyes. It has in fact a mechanism by which it can keep them steady. Static eyes does not contradict the protean, no matter how much you don't like it. And like I have said, it is frankly boring to have to hear it over and over and over like this was some grand new revelation instead of an objection that has been noted for literally over a decade.

GW

[InvisibleBison]

A Boojum: as a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible, which fits the scene in SoD at the circus where the MitD is being fed in low light and isn't visible at all. As a Boojum it's also dangerous and presumably strong. There are undoubtedly a thousand other monsters from the history of literature which are now forgotten that fit, but being forgotten is a big downside.

I suppose you could argue that "clear proof MitD is not a boojum" is not the same thing as "a hint against MitD being a boojum", but I don't think doing so strengthens the case for the boojum.

I disagree that a protean only having two statically placed eyes does not contradict the truth of it's being a protean.

Well, then, you're just wrong.

[Tubercular Ox]

It sounds like the bar is "if other monsters aren't perfect fits then they're bad but if my monster isn't a perfect fit then it's not a problem".

Or maybe "if this specific monster isn't a perfect fit then it's bad but if any other monster isn't a perfect fit then it's not a problem".

Either way it's a bad argument. All our nothing buddy.

What about, "Any monster that can fit the story with no more than five red herrings in any one scene is at least as good as the Protean" ?

[Peelee]

What about, "Any monster that can fit the story with no more than five red herrings in any one scene is at least as good as the Protean" ?

I'm not arguing for or against any creature. I've tried to stop that some time ago since I don't feel it's productive for me. I have my guess listed, other people have theirs, we'll see when we see. So I don't care about what is "as good as the Protean", which is already a poor metric since it's value varies person to person.

I was sayign that your assertion of "if people argue about it afterwards then it's bad writing" is a remarkably bad argument to make since it can apply just as easily to every proposed monster since there are zero perfect fits and everything has issues.

[Kish]

I think there is no logical problem with: "Any monster that can fit the story with no more than five red herrings in any one scene in the eyes of Tubercular Ox is at least as good as the Protean in the eyes of Tubercular Ox."

One who does not share the premise will obviously object to being forcefed the conclusion.

[OvisCaedo]

"Being a person" is not in any way equivalent to "being a creature with a bunch of templates for its abilities". One of the major themes of the comic is that even monsters are individuals. You're not going to look at ANY statblock to declare resolutely what someone's personality is.

Literally any creature the MitD could be would have been easily capable of breaking out of the cage. He is enormously strong even without any specific ability. He chose not to, because of who he is as a person. And, in general, he is explicitly unaware of the extent of his own capabilities. Which also does a lot to explain "Well if he's X why didn't he use Y" for the majority of monsters.

[GreyTraveller]

I don't think Rich would write the Monster in the Dark so ambiguously that it would continue to generate arguments after the reveal.

I have every confidence that even after the reveal, this thread will continue on, with people discussing which pieces of evidence from the comic really make it seem like it should have been something else, continuing to suggest possibilities that are surely a better fit than whatever Rich show us he's been thinking all this time, and probably even why it was bad writing on Rich's part to have scene X play out as it did. (Plus plenty of gloating that they had it right, of course, assuming that at least some folks here have made the right guess). While the conversation may eventually fall off over time, I guarantee that the initial response will not be for everyone to unanimously agree that it was obvious in retrospect, and quickly come to accept the answer.

[Tubercular Ox]

I love how we went from "The Protean is the best we're going to get" to "Standards are bad and you shouldn't judge the Protean on them" as soon as I mentioned the standard there would have to be for the Protean to stay in the running.

I have every confidence that even after the reveal, this thread will continue on, with people discussing which pieces of evidence from the comic really make it seem like it should have been something else, continuing to suggest possibilities that are surely a better fit than whatever Rich show us he's been thinking all this time, and probably even why it was bad writing on Rich's part to have scene X play out as it did. (Plus plenty of gloating that they had it right, of course, assuming that at least some folks here have made the right guess). While the conversation may eventually fall off over time, I guarantee that the initial response will not be for everyone to unanimously agree that it was obvious in retrospect, and quickly come to accept the answer.

Maybe, but are all candidates flawed equally? I mean, no offense to Peelee's suggestion, but Wile E. Coyote would have a very different post-reveal environment from a Protean.

[halfeye]

1) An invisible creature does not fit the circus scene, where the public clearly can see MitD.
b) "a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible" is headcanon.

Clearly, in the circus performance scene the MitD is applying his will to be seen. He says being seen by so many is tiring, which suggests it is putting in an effort to be seen.

iii) "being forgotten" is not a downside. Nothing requires MitD's species to be well known.

Your second sentence is technically correct, however equally nothing requires it to be obscure, and I suggest that being known to readers of the comic would be an advantage.

... it is frankly boring to have to hear it over and over and over like this was some grand new revelation instead of an objection that has been noted for literally over a decade.

GW

It has been noted and ignored for that long yes, it's the ignoration with the implication that it has been forgotten which causes it to be repromulgated.

Well, then, you're just wrong.

In your and some other's opinions, yes. We shall eventually see.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think it's been discussed several times in the past, but how would people feel if this whole time the MITD's face has been purely symbolic/artistic/for the reader's sake and not its literal face? i.e. the reveal happens and when the MITD steps out of the darkness its true face is nothing like the 2 yellow eyes we've grown accustomed to. Whether that means no eyes, 1 eye, 3 or more eyes, red eyes, constant shapechanging, compound eyes, eyes that are way bigger than what we saw in the darkness, eyestalks that are placed completely inconsistently with what we've seen, or anything else.

Personally, I would have little issue with this. We have already accepted various instances of "artistic liberties that aren't what are 'really' occurring in-universe," such as Durkon's memories being in third-person (even though we know OOTS characters perceive the world in first person) or Nale's stubble making it obvious to the reader which twin is which. Heck, I imagine the MITD's eyebrows are another example that we pretty much all accept as only being drawn to communicate the MITD's emotions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also worth noting that the MITD's eyes have never even been referenced in dialogue. The closest we've come to the MITD's eyes being acknowledged by the writing is when they glow for the escape scene, but even that could've been a visual way of telling the audience "Yes, this was 100% the MITD's doing. Don't bother theorizing about how V and O-Chul were possibly saved by a third party."

I imagine some would feel that Rich cheated if this turns out the case, and I can't really fault people for feeling that way even if I myself would accept it.

[Peelee]

I love how we went from "The Protean is the best we're going to get" to "Standards are bad and you shouldn't judge the Protean on them" as soon as I mentioned the standard there would have to be for the Protean to stay in the running.

A.)I don't recall anyone ever saying "The Protean is the best we're going to get". And, at the very least, I've never said that, and I'm the one knocking your "standards" suggestion.
2.) I have never objected to applying "standards" the the Protean. I have objected to your desire to hold one "standard" for the Protean and not hold any other creature to that same "standard". If you disagree, then again, i assume you object to every other creature suggested, including your own?

Maybe, but are all candidates flawed equally? I mean, no offense to Peelee's suggestion, but Wile E. Coyote would have a very different post-reveal environment from a Protean.

To amend one small bit of what i said above, obviously Wile E. Coyote is the best we're going to get.

[Tubercular Ox]

2.) I have never objected to applying "standards" the the Protean. I have objected to your desire to hold one "standard" for the Protean and not hold any other creature to that same "standard". If you disagree, then again, i assume you object to every other creature suggested, including your own?

I don't know what standard the Protean holds itself to, just that, whatever it is, it excludes fitting every scene. So is the standard that a monster is allowed one scene it doesn't have to fit?

Oh, wait, two scenes:

Spoiler: Mind Control Scene

Show

You sure are one ugly sumbitch, aren’t you?
(Fits a Protean, although I find this line odd since we’ve already established that it’s strangely beautiful.)

What do you do that really terrifies people?

Let’s see… I eat a lot?
(Not a Protean -- there’s no mention of eating on its statblock.)

Ok, then, when the heroes show up, you eat them!

And if Redcloak ever betrays me, you will devour him whole and spit out the gold amulet he wears.
(Not a Protean. Proteans have 39 SR and a +32 Will save, there is a 1% chance Xykon could land that spell on the first try, and I don’t know why Rich would let him do that when even a single failed casting, blamed on freaking spell resistance, would do so much for the Protean’s believability)
(And still not a Protean because Proteans don’t devour things whole.)

To amend one small bit of what i said above, obviously Wile E. Coyote is the best we're going to get.

I have to admit, there would probably be an impressive silence after it was revealed.

[Emberlily]

I feel like this could be an important distinction to make

Spoiler: quoting from Ox's first spoilered portion

Show

"I don’t know why Rich would let him do that when even a single failed casting, blamed on freaking spell resistance, would do so much for the Protean’s believability)"

I know a good reason why: because it would severely bog down the narrative pacing deep in the heart of the emotional climax of that entire book (a book which, if I recall correctly the author's statements, was until recently his favorite one because of how it was just a solid story). telling a good story as a whole always comes ahead of scoring points for the monster guessing game, and the author has openly said he doesn't sweat the odds of a D&D roll so long as something is possible and tells a good story

[Tubercular Ox]

I feel like this could be an important distinction to make

Spoiler: quoting from Ox's first spoilered portion

Show

"I don’t know why Rich would let him do that when even a single failed casting, blamed on freaking spell resistance, would do so much for the Protean’s believability)"

I know a good reason why: because it would severely bog down the narrative pacing deep in the heart of the emotional climax of that entire book (a book which, if I recall correctly the author's statements, was until recently his favorite one because of how it was just a solid story). telling a good story as a whole always comes ahead of scoring points for the monster guessing game, and the author has openly said he doesn't sweat the odds of a D&D roll so long as something is possible and tells a good story

That's fair! But it means a 1 in 100 chance working out is a part of the standard for any monster that wants to compete with the Protean.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It has been noted and ignored for that long yes, it's the ignoration with the implication that it has been forgotten which causes it to be repromulgated.

It has been in the OP since thread three, last edited 2011-01-16. It is not "ignored". But that, it seems, according to you, is "ignoration", whatever the hell that means. So by all means, do tell, what precisely do you suggest that this thread should do beyond noting it clearly in the initial post in the entry for protean as one of its cons? What would it take for you to consider it sufficiently not "ignoration", halfeye? Should I force everyone in this thread to quote that entry before they are allowed to say anything else? Force everyone to add it to their signatures? Quiz participants randomly to make sure they have read the damn entry?

Hagunemnon (Protean)
Pros:

• Great strength (53)
• teleportation (plane shift) abilities
• Access to Planar Travel through convenient partial shapeshift into Umbral Blot, which includes greater teleport
• adequate size
• his shapeshifting sounds disturbing, but has 34 CHA.
• Has no languages, thus being surprising it can talk.
• Its psionic ability to detect thoughts would explain his knowledge of the ritual, probably having heard RC's thoughts on the subject.

Cons:

• Plane shift doesn't fit well with the escape as shown (see 1b: The Escape), and while greater teleport fits slightly better, it requires a timely shapeshift into the exact appropriate creature.
• it's powers are psionic-based (see 2b Psionics).
• It's constant shapeshifting has not been reflected in a change of MitD (mouth and eyes stay roughly the same)

(emphasis mine)


These, btw, are not rhetorical questions. What, precisely, should it be done that is not already being done, halfeye?

Because to the best of my knowledge I am already doing everything that needs to be doing. And you are just annoyed that we don't consider it as crucial a con as you want us to, but since you have nothing other than your firm belief, that no-one else is required to share, all you have left is boring me with constant repetition that I do... what, exactly?

ETA: erased on reflection of Keltest's comment below

A Boojum: as a snark it's invisible when it's not applying it's will to be visible, which fits the scene in SoD at the circus

Clearly, in the circus performance scene the MitD is applying his will to be seen.

Preserved without comment.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

I don't know what standard the Protean holds itself to

It doesn't. It's a block of text. It can't hold itself to any standards. You can, and you cam choose whatever standard you want. But if you want others to agree with you then you have to prepare for the possibility people may not and may criticize your standard.

That's fair! But it means a 1 in 100 chance working out is a part of the standard for any monster that wants to compete with the Protean.

Dude, there's no competition here. It's not a game of "whatever most people think will determine what it is". The only prize is bragging rights. Hell, I'd be slightly happier if it turns out to be Wile E. Coyote because I'd be the only one to get to say "BOOYAH!"

This is also a reason why I've tried to stop advocating or arguing against creatures. Because it does not matter at all to me what other people guess. It only matters to me what I guess. Others may feel differently, others may want to justify their guess as much as possible or convince as many people as they can. But that doesn't make it a competition. There's no competing here except in your own mind. If you have it be a competition foe yourself, then cool, you do you, but don't expect others to be obligated to answer your own questions about how to make other monsters compete. Even if others decide to help, it might not be what you want.

[Errorname]

I love how we went from "The Protean is the best we're going to get" to "Standards are bad and you shouldn't judge the Protean on them" as soon as I mentioned the standard there would have to be for the Protean to stay in the running.

I think I've been pretty clear that while I think the Protean is the best we've got, the case for it is far from airtight and it's entirely possible we haven't found the actual answer yet. So I don't think "this is the leading candidate" and "these are some minor bits where it doesn't fit neatly"

[GreyTraveller]

Maybe, but are all candidates flawed equally? I mean, no offense to Peelee's suggestion, but Wile E. Coyote would have a very different post-reveal environment from a Protean.

Well, of course not, but there are many views on which candidates have more flaws, or worse flaws, or whatever. That's why there are so many different guesses in the first place. I think we're pretty safe that it's not Wile E. Coyote, but I'd say that Snorlax is still a reasonable possibility, for example. Regardless, I really do think that we'll continue to see people saying that another monster would have been a better fit, even after Rich tells us what he thinks the best fit is.

[Keltest]

Preserved without comment.

Grey Wolf

I believe you are confusing Halfeye talking about a different scene at the circus with The Circus Scene that we use as a Big Scene for the FBS category. Unless I am radically misremembering, the MITD does not get fed while on stage.

In particular, you flat out cut out the second half of the sentence in the first quote which very specifically says what Halfeye is talking about.

[Gurgeh]

...I'd say that Snorlax is still a reasonable possibility, for example.

Okay, I'm morbidly curious: how could this possibly work unless the reveal is a one-page gag that gets the MitD being permanently disappeared by Mr Jones and Mr Rodriguez?
EDIT: please disregard, thread rules clearly don't allow this.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I believe you are confusing Halfeye talking about a different scene at the circus with The Circus Scene that we use as a Big Scene for the FBS category. Unless I am radically misremembering, the MITD does not get fed while on stage.

Ah, then it's the old argument that because the darkness "bends inwards" near the floorboards in that particular scene, it must mean MitD is invisible inside the shadows (rather than, say, "he's leaning forward so the feet are still firmly in the shadows " or the most likely "it's not a clue"). Yeah, I should have remembered that halfeye still bring that one up every so often. Fair enough, striken through.

GW