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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    ou don't get to tell me my assumptions are wrong when you yourself are insisting on an interpretation that ignores facts.

    For Example: Scott did not learn about Vulcan from Sinister.

    Mister Sinister mistakenly said "Brothers" when he meant "Brother" and played it off as a slip of the tongue... Because when that comic was written, the plan was to reveal that Gambit was a long lost Third Summers brother.

    That storyline was dropped, however, and Gambit was given a different backstory, so in context, that line becomes an actual, ordinary slip of the tongue that means nothing.

    Unless you have some other source that proves that Sinister knew about Vulcan somehow before Vulcan was born, let alone "always wanted Vulcan he just used Scott because he was what he could get" that isn't reliant on a gross, broad interpretation of unrelated plot points that you are misrepresenting I think this side tangent is done.
    On the topic at hand, I'm reminded of the exitance of Yet Another Superman Analog in the Marvel Universe.

    Etan Edwards, code name virtue, birth name Virtue, was the son of a Skrull scientist who, upon realizing that Galactus was about to eat his planet, used Super Srkull tech to make his infant son as powerful as posisble and program hi innate shapeshifting to desquise him as a human and then sent him to Earth to hide out until he came of age.

    He landed in a farm in Iowa and was raised to be a good, honest, decent person by his adoptive parents.

    So like, in addition to all of the Superman Analogs with similar powers there is in fact an analog with an almost identical backstroy.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No, "they're Gods" was the explanation for how they're tapping external energy.

    They, like Mutants, are using external energy.

    Explcitly. When Hercules(differant species of God but bear with me) lost his powers, he eventually got them back with the help of a scintist who studies superpowers and who coined the term "god source" to refer to these extradimensional powers.

    Also, I was a bit more specific than that.
    I understand what you're saying here, but to me, there's no functional difference between "i am able to generate infinite energy" and "i am able to use infinite energy that is generated five feet away from me".
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I understand what you're saying here, but to me, there's no functional difference between "i am able to generate infinite energy" and "i am able to use infinite energy that is generated five feet away from me".
    Again, you're assuming that the extradimensional energy source is "infinite" when it is merely unverifiably vast. "Functionally infinite" and "seemingly more than they can possibly be taking in" are not the same as "actually infinite" and "actually moe than they're taking in."

    Especially when talking about whether or not something is violating thermodynamics.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    snippy snip.
    Your stance has been : scott is super awesome special and is the only one who can do this thing of making infinite energy and/or break laws of physics.

    It was rebutted. You then proceeded to double down. It was refuted. {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by truemane; 2023-11-30 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Scrubbed

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    I feel like there are three different topics all going on here at once:

    1. Scott Summers is a walking violation of the laws of thermodynamics, unique in the marvel universe, and historically important for that fact. Rater is consistently making good points on this topic, and I can respect the lore discussions.
    2. Other mutants exist who could reduce Cyclops to a red smear or worse. In the context of a vs. thread, being historically important, unique, and a violation of physical law are not trump cards. Unless extradimensional energy beams are somehow anti-Superman tech (which I think this whole subtopic came up to dispute that claim), Cyclops vs. Superman is not a hard call to make.
    3. Metatextually, while other mutants might be said to tap into an energy source that obeys thermodynamics, in practice that source will never run dry because nobody wants to turn the spigot off on multiple popular and profitable comic lines. On top of that, even for characters and technologies claimed to be nonpowered, "physical laws" often have a fair amount of give to them. So while there's a narrative value to cosmic force being finite while punch dimension is infinite, there's also a good Doylist case to be made that most supers can be seen as having perpetual potential.
    3 is basically where I'm at. Yes, everything Rater has said has been written to be true. (Or presumably. Rater has much more knowledge about Marvel than I, and I'll assume he is correct in his statements).

    But just because what he said is canon, doesn't mean that; it makes all that much sense, it is a core aspect of canon, and it had to be written that way.

    Scott being an 'ordinary' but strong mutant wouldn't change anything, not if the writers didn't want it to. Other explanations, some of which are flat out superior to the infinite punch dimension explanation, could lead to the exact same results because that explanation is not a core concept of Scott Summers or the X-Men franchise. And again, it's not a great idea to begin with.

    Like if you took a person, taught them about the whole Sinister thing and time travel and all of those plot twists, I doubt most of them would go 'oh, this was because Scott actually has portals to a different dimension of infinite energy and violates thermodynamics.' They'd come up with a different explanation on why Scott is special, including that he is special because his kid is Cable and the whole thing is a bit of a time loop where Cable coming back from the future guarantees his birth as then Sinister ensures that Cable is born to fight Apocalypse, but he only knows to do that because Cable came back from the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    2: Ice Man is only Omega-Level. Beyond Omga is a very nebulous term but the only mutants referred to as Beyond Omega are Vulcan, X-Man, Power House, Mercurter, and one reality warper who's name escapes me. You know, people who if they said they were Captial G Gods, you would believe them. Bobby's a strong son of a bitch but he's nowhere near that tier.
    Sure. But the bigger point is that Bobby's parents are just folks. Ordinary people. A pair of homo sapiens. They aren't anything special.

    And Bobby is an Omega level mutant. He is incredibly powerful and his strength is so great that you can't even compare it to an ordinary person. If he isn't in the top 10 of most powerful mutants, than he's probably in the top 25.

    So if he can result from two plain as porridge humans, why can't Cable arise from a theoretically normal mutant Cyclops and Jean Grey? The difference between them and Cable is a lot less than the difference between Bobby and his parents.
    Last edited by Forum Explorer; 2023-11-29 at 10:27 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    The thing about Rater202 argument about the punch dimension is Reed Richard’s has already made the same argument for all mutants

    With some undisclosed dimension is what powers all mutant powers. This was in that Krakoa X-Men / Fantastic Four crossover with a silly name *looks it up* X-MEN/FANTASTIC FOUR: 4X

    So yeah Scott is not special if Reed’s analysis is correct (I really do not care if it’s correct or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godpower
    Wiki

    The Godpower particle is a theory originally formulated by Dr. Rachna Koul, a specialist in the field of imperiumology (the science of superpowers). She asserted that superhumans are "each connected to one or more interdimensional sources of energy". The particle allows a powered being to deal with the conservation of energy.[1]

    Doctor Doom discovered the particle during his own research and decided to call it the "Von Doom Particle".[2]


    [1] X-Men / Fantastic Four (Vol. 2) #1
    [2] X-Men / Fantastic Four (Vol. 2) #3

    —————

    REED RICHARDS (Journal)
    Entry 66109

    Ever since the accident that gave us our extra abilities, I've been trying to reconcile the high energy expenditure of each of our power sets with our seemingly unchanged individual energy intake. The most basic laws of physics make this seem impossible. At first I suspected we were absorbing energy from the air, possibly low-level radiation, but the numbers never added up.

    Then I came across the work of Dr. Rachna Koul, who specialized in imperiumology, the science of super-powers. She posited that superhumans are each connected to one or more intradimensional sources of energy, which she dubbed "Godpower." A solid theory, though I'm still unable to find that conduit in my studies of the Fantastic Four's power sets.

    Franklin's diminishing powers would appear to lend credence to the Godpower theory, as he seems to be running out of the energy needed to use his powers. If we were to believe there is a Godpower source, then it's possible that Franklin's connection to that source is broken. Whether or not it can be repaired depends on first proving its existence somehow.

    —————

    Reed Richards: This is an audacious piece of work, victor exploding the body's mitochondria to open a channel?
    Beast: It appears that alongside the fuel fuel of adenosine triphosphate, Franklin's body is creating a secondary type of energy.
    Doom: That's not unique to Franklin it's true of all of you with "powers. Mutant, superhuman...anyone who expends more power than they can seemingly generate has this energy type flowing through them, I call them Von Doom Particles.
    Beast: Of course you do. And If these schematics are any Indication, you don't think they're being generated by us, but rather.
    Doom: Traveling through conduits within the mitochondria, One would presume from another dimension, an unlimited power source.
    Reed Richard’s: The scientist Dr. Rachna Koυ has already been working on finding that source... which she calls "godpower.
    Doom: Von Doom Particles
    Doom: Once Doom is able to, travel to this dimension. It will be claimed as Latveria's.
    Xavier: Victor
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2023-11-30 at 01:43 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    You have drastically misunderstood the "Godpower" theory.

    That is uh... What I am referring to when I'm talking about extradimensional power sources.

    That isn't exactly new information, the in-universe, this is just the first time a human had published their findings.

    The thing is... Cyclops is well established to be an exception to that trend.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Full stop. Cycs does NOT use the punch dimension. It was clarified in the 1986 The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition that the crap about him having it in 83 is WRONG. That whole argument hinging on him making portals was tossed when they fixed that.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    Full stop. Cycs does NOT use the punch dimension. It was clarified in the 1986 The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition that the crap about him having it in 83 is WRONG. That whole argument hinging on him making portals was tossed when they fixed that.
    And that retcon was subsequently ignored by pretty much every writer so no, it wasn't.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    And that retcon was subsequently ignored by pretty much every writer so no, it wasn't.
    When he fought Dormmamu, it wasn't ignored. When he absorbed Storm's lightning, it wasn't ignored. When he got the Phoenix Force, it wasn't ignored. When he was infiltrated by tiny sentinels that made it to where he once again couldn't control his powers till Beast purged him, it wasn't ignored. In the current run, it ISN'T ignored.

    Sunspot makes more sense for the solar battery theory anyway since that's literally what he does.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    ... and just to stir the pot a little, since Cyclops has absolutely nothing to do with the original intent of this thread, are we going to ignore that Ultimate Cyclops (when amped on the Banshee drug) basically was Superman?
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    You have drastically misunderstood the "Godpower" theory.
    ..… How so?
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    ... and just to stir the pot a little, since Cyclops has absolutely nothing to do with the original intent of this thread, are we going to ignore that Ultimate Cyclops (when amped on the Banshee drug) basically was Superman?
    No one counts the Ultimate Universe. The only thing good to come out of it was Miles Morales.

    Unless they're trying to ****-talk the mutants, then they bring up the kid whose power was that he passively obliterated people in a wide area around him o prove that fearing mutants is irrational while completely ignoring

    Though on that note, I've seen people make an argument that, while this probably wasn't the intention, the original five X-Men are collectively a Superman Analog.

    Cyclopes: Optic Blasts analog to heat vision and super geometry analogs onto some of Clark's instinctive knowledge moments.

    Ice Man: Cryokenisis, especially as depicted early on, pretty cleanly analogs to Clark's arctic breath.

    Angel: Flight, surprisingly durable, inexplicably in a state of perfect athletic fitness.

    Beast: Superhuman strength and agility as well as being generally smart as hell.

    Jean: Psychic power analog to much of the miscellanies bull**** that Clark pulled out of his ass in the silver age.

    Which interestingly enough adds Xraven, who is a genetic chimera composed of all of the above+Kraven the Hunter (and technically Carnage) to the list of Marvel's superman counterparts.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2023-11-30 at 11:26 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Again, you're assuming that the extradimensional energy source is "infinite" when it is merely unverifiably vast. "Functionally infinite" and "seemingly more than they can possibly be taking in" are not the same as "actually infinite" and "actually moe than they're taking in."

    Especially when talking about whether or not something is violating thermodynamics.
    "functionally infinite" is not "actually infinite", sure. But it's still functionally infinite. There's no practical difference, there's only academic difference.

    Also superheroes violate all kinds of physics, i don't know why thermodynamics is so special.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2023-11-30 at 11:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Is Santa Claus still considered a Mutant? He could probably procure some kryptonite to someone that has been sufficiently good for the year.
    "Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    Is Santa Claus still considered a Mutant? He could probably procure some kryptonite to someone that has been sufficiently good for the year.
    The last mention of him in-universe(last Year's Dark Web storyline) had him referred to as a mutant, yes.

    However, in between that storyline and the Holiday Special that first established him as a mutant, he's also been depicted as a conglomeration of stories of various gods, folkloric figures, and saints that then came to life and Doctor Doom has speculated that he may be a former Sorcerer Supreme.

    Honestly, given how the magic side of Marvel tends to do things all three are probably true simultaneously.

    Santa's elves are pretty consistently depicted as Light elves from Alfheim, however.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    Is Santa Claus still considered a Mutant? He could probably procure some kryptonite to someone that has been sufficiently good for the year.
    Yes, Santa Claus was the "most powerful mutant ever registered" by Cerebro (as of 1991)
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No one counts the Ultimate Universe. The only thing good to come out of it was Miles Morales.

    Unless they're trying to ****-talk the mutants, then they bring up the kid whose power was that he passively obliterated people in a wide area around him o prove that fearing mutants is irrational while completely ignoring

    Though on that note, I've seen people make an argument that, while this probably wasn't the intention, the original five X-Men are collectively a Superman Analog.

    Cyclopes: Optic Blasts analog to heat vision and super geometry analogs onto some of Clark's instinctive knowledge moments.

    Ice Man: Cryokenisis, especially as depicted early on, pretty cleanly analogs to Clark's arctic breath.

    Angel: Flight, surprisingly durable, inexplicably in a state of perfect athletic fitness.

    Beast: Superhuman strength and agility as well as being generally smart as hell.

    Jean: Psychic power analog to much of the miscellanies bull**** that Clark pulled out of his ass in the silver age.

    Which interestingly enough adds Xraven, who is a genetic chimera composed of all of the above+Kraven the Hunter (and technically Carnage) to the list of Marvel's superman counterparts.
    I thought Jean was the stand in for that tactile field he had that prevented massive objects from collapsing on themselves when he picked them up? I didn’t think about his… eccentric abilities

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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    And that retcon was subsequently ignored by pretty much every writer so no, it wasn't.
    This is an amusing response, given that your entire "cyclops is the lone exception to the laws of thermodynamics" argument is dependent on a single limited series from the 90s that is LIKEWISE ignored by every writer since.

    Also amusing because you are arguing "for" the punch dimension which invalidates the "cyclops violated the laws of thermodynamics" argument wholesale. If the energy is simply transferring from dimension B to dimension A, its not breaking any laws of thermodynamics. And don't try to sell the bull**** of "he requires massive energy to hold those portals open" as if that's something special. The marvel universe is chock full of permanent and easy to open interdimensional portals that require no obvious exertion to keep open. Just the darkforce dimension alone has a dozen I could name (cloak, shroud, blackout, etc) There's overwhelming precedence to "keeping interdimensional portals open is no big deal" despite the ham-handed attempt by the writer in the 90s to find SOME reason for Scott to be important.

    Hell, in the 2000s, in a Dr Strange story, it was suggested that the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak come from the same dimension. And good ol' Doc Strange rips that portal open willy nilly whenever he feels like it. I bet you don't cite that well-forgotten and best-forgotten gem.

    So if you REALLY want to sell the "cyclops violates the laws of thermodynamics" you should be OPPOSING the punch dimension theory, not supporting it.

    You don't get to arbitrate what one-off representation of characters count and which don't. You aren't the writer of Death Battle. You certainly undermine yourself when you do given the nature of your position. I realize how deeply this mid 90s miniseries has affected you and your formative beliefs, but its really really really unimportant in the grand scheme of the Marvel Universe.

    Also: Just to be clear and get this is one post: -YOU- are the one misinterpreting the 'god power' theory. Because it clashes with your own pet theories. And this is coming from someone who finds those "unified theories of where powers come from" to be trite and unfun and ignore them wholesale.
    Last edited by Wintermoot; 2023-12-01 at 09:35 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    I thought Jean was the stand in for that tactile field he had that prevented massive objects from collapsing on themselves when he picked them up? I didn’t think about his… eccentric abilities
    That wasn't a thing in the silver age.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoot View Post
    This is an amusing response, given that your entire "cyclops is the lone exception to the laws of thermodynamics" argument is dependent on a single limited series from the 90s that is LIKEWISE ignored by every writer since.

    Also amusing because you are arguing "for" the punch dimension which invalidates the "cyclops violated the laws of thermodynamics" argument wholesale. If the energy is simply transferring from dimension B to dimension A, its not breaking any laws of thermodynamics. And don't try to sell the bull**** of "he requires massive energy to hold those portals open" as if that's something special. The marvel universe is chock full of permanent and easy to open interdimensional portals that require no obvious exertion to keep open. Just the darkforce dimension alone has a dozen I could name (cloak, shroud, blackout, etc) There's overwhelming precedence to "keeping interdimensional portals open is no big deal" despite the ham-handed attempt by the writer in the 90s to find SOME reason for Scott to be important.

    Hell, in the 2000s, in a Dr Strange story, it was suggested that the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak come from the same dimension. And good ol' Doc Strange rips that portal open willy nilly whenever he feels like it. I bet you don't cite that well-forgotten and best-forgotten gem.

    So if you REALLY want to sell the "cyclops violates the laws of thermodynamics" you should be OPPOSING the punch dimension theory, not supporting it.

    You don't get to arbitrate what one-off representation of characters count and which don't. You aren't the writer of Death Battle. You certainly undermine yourself when you do given the nature of your position. I realize how deeply this mid 90s miniseries has affected you and your formative beliefs, but its really really really unimportant in the grand scheme of the Marvel Universe.

    Also: Just to be clear and get this is one post: -YOU- are the one misinterpreting the 'god power' theory. Because it clashes with your own pet theories. And this is coming from someone who finds those "unified theories of where powers come from" to be trite and unfun and ignore them wholesale.
    1: You're showing a lack of understanding of the punch dimension theory, which is weird because I ahve in fact explained that already.

    It's not the energy from the Punch Dimension that maks him break thermodynamics, though it is part of what makes him a poteitally infinite source of energy

    But what make him a violation of Thermodynamics, however, is fact that it is stated quite explcitly that Scott makes his own "mutant energy" from ambient sunlight, rather than get it from an extradimensional source like every other mutant, and more importantly that Sott is generating more energy that he's taking in.

    It is in fact a plot point that the energy needed to maintain those portals to the Punch Dimension is significantly greater than what Scott should be getting from ambient sunlight, meaning that Scott's process fo generating mutant energy has to be impossibly efficient with how he metabolizes what he takes in, to the point of generating countless times more than he takes in.

    Doctor Strange casting the Crimson Bands of Cytorrek doesn't invalidate that, because as a Sorcerer all of Doctor Strange's powers, excluding his telepathy, are fueled by manipulation of ambient cosmic energy or invoking an external being to provide said energy with it being a recurring plot point that Sorcerers are limited by the energy they have access to and that magic doesn't just come from nowhere but must have some cost.

    Everyone else is drawing the exact amount of energy they need from a Godpower source. Scott makes his own and breaks thermodynamics over his knee.

    In this specific case, the Crimson Bands accessing that dimension is irrelevant because the spell works by directly invoking Cytorrek and asking him for some of his power. That's literally how the spell works. There was a storyline where Cytorrek called in Strange's tab. Don't cite that "The bands come from the red Punch dimension" theory but leave out the rest of how the Bands work.

    As for Godpower... explain to me how my statement "superhumans are drawing the energy needed to fuel their powers from ane extradimensional source, except for the one guy who is explcitly an exception to that trend" is a drastic misunderstanding of "the prevailing theory in-universe is that most superhumans fuel their powrs by drawing energy from an extradimensional source."
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That wasn't a thing in the silver age.
    fair enough.


    punch dimension
    is currently not a thing.

    But what make him a violation of Thermodynamics, however, is fact that it is stated quite explcitly that Scott makes his own "mutant energy" from ambient sunlight, rather than get it from an extradimensional source like every other mutant, and more importantly that Sott is generating more energy that he's taking in.
    which is also wrong as it was explained decades ago that Sunspot literally does this. The only reason current Sunspot doesn’t is not because that has changed, but because his abilities was juiced to the point that when using them he ages prematurely. But his whole deal is to take in sunlight to do everything from fly to super strength to emit beams.


    Edit: I forgot he died shortly after getting the M-pox. He was rezzed and no longer has that weakness of aging prematurely anymore
    Last edited by HolyDraconus; 2023-12-01 at 11:29 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    The Mod Ogre: Let us take the discussion of Cyclops to another thread.
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    I repeat, before the fall

    Who is Clark Kent going to bond with to have a sense of place in this world? He is always a stranger in a strange land, a godsuperman walks among us … in this marvel garden.

    But he always befriends people and is not a stranger to all. Thus who is the heart framework in this story? For Clark is not his feats but one person in a much larger system of community.
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I repeat, before the fall

    Who is Clark Kent going to bond with to have a sense of place in this world? He is always a stranger in a strange land, a godsuperman walks among us … in this marvel garden.

    But he always befriends people and is not a stranger to all. Thus who is the heart framework in this story? For Clark is not his feats but one person in a much larger system of community.
    Bob and Linda.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I repeat, before the fall

    Who is Clark Kent going to bond with to have a sense of place in this world? He is always a stranger in a strange land, a godsuperman walks among us … in this marvel garden.

    But he always befriends people and is not a stranger to all. Thus who is the heart framework in this story? For Clark is not his feats but one person in a much larger system of community.
    .... wouldn't he end up with Jim or Sam Wilson? Sam pretty much has the same moral compass as Big Blue, while Jim has been Hulk's heart for some time.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    .... wouldn't he end up with Jim or Sam Wilson? Sam pretty much has the same moral compass as Big Blue, while Jim has been Hulk's heart for some time.
    Why would it need to be anyone known or important? My "bob amd Linda" crack was my way of saying Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen aren't superheroes with powers, they were just coworkers, who Clark befriended. Dude's most famous relationships are with just normal people. Being in the Marvel universe wouldn't necessarily change that.
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Who the hell is Jim?

    Do you mean Rick Jones?

    @Peelee: It doesn't detract from your point, but I feel compelled to point out that it was sort of a running gag in the silver age that Jimmy Olsen would keep getting random superpowers for a while and then lose them again. He was a member of the Legion of Superheroes briefly, even.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2023-12-05 at 11:44 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why would it need to be anyone known or important? My "bob amd Linda" crack was my way of saying Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen aren't superheroes with powers, they were just coworkers, who Clark befriended. Dude's most famous relationships are with just normal people. Being in the Marvel universe wouldn't necessarily change that.
    lol but its Big Blue! He HAS to pair up with some relatively known entities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Who the hell is Jim?

    Do you mean Rick Jones?
    James "Jim" Wilson. A pal of the Hulk from back in the day. Eventually learned enough to fight a bit better than the average goon as well as some passing familiarity with military equipment, but ultimately a "rando".

    Edit: I think on one universe Jim is Sam's nephew.
    Last edited by HolyDraconus; 2023-12-05 at 11:50 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Okay, took me a second. I don't think The Falcon's nephew is a Rando.

    Additionally, bearing his original appearance and one other storyline, most of his appearances were rather sporadic up until he died of AIDs.

    I don't think a character who ultimately appeared in less than fifty of the thousands of comics that Hulk has been in could be called "Hulk's heart" or would be thought of as such when you bring it up.

    My literal first thought when you clarified who you were talking about was "wait, was he the one who died of AIDS?" I had to double check what other appearances he's had and it's more than I thought but still not particularly significant in the grand scheme of things.

    If I had to pick an established character for Cark to hang out with, it'd probably be Rick Jones simply because Rick Jones is Marvel's answer to Jimmy Olsen.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Could Superman *thrive* in the Marvel Universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why would it need to be anyone known or important? My "bob amd Linda" crack was my way of saying Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen aren't superheroes with powers, they were just coworkers, who Clark befriended. Dude's most famous relationships are with just normal people. Being in the Marvel universe wouldn't necessarily change that.
    no no no 🙃 Clark Kent and Maddie Pryor
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