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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    I find it even less likely that Rich is going to have a reveal of "Redcloak did not make bad choices in Start of Darkness,
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    his brother was killed by a mind-controlling overgarment
    ."
    Last edited by Kish; 2023-11-30 at 09:15 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I find it unlikely that Dvalin was born a movie snack.
    I'm not as certain. I've been described as a "snacc" so far be it from me to assume a dwarf can't also be.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Provengreil View Post
    Thor's note that no one sponsored TDO strongly implies someone in the Northern Pantheon sponsored Dvalin, since he votes with them and has a yellow quiddity. As for this world, well, his oath references his time as a mortal and the council of clans, neither of which would be terribly relevant if he'd ascended in a previous world. I guess he could remake some form of the clans every time(he might even have to now that I think on it, given how mortal belief shapes the gods), but occams razor says he's from this world.

    EDIT: strip showing this stuff is found here https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html
    I'm not convinced. He might always do clans of dwarves (or the nearest possible equivalent) in every world created, just as Fenrir always does monsters.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    I don't think Dvalin having ascended in a previous world is a reasonable theory, because it creates some serious issues with what the gods told the original dwarves at the beginning of the world. These dwarves presumably knew that they were the first and that the world had just been created, so there's no way for them to be led to believe Dvalin's kingship and ascension had happened in the past. And it's also not possible for the gods to tell them that it had happened in a previous world. So unless Dvalin pretended to be a mortal for a while, which is wildly incompatible with what we are both told and shown of his character, I don't see how people could believe what we are shown to believe about Dvalin if he did in fact ascend in a previous world.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    I'm not convinced. He might always do clans of dwarves (or the nearest possible equivalent) in every world created, just as Fenrir always does monsters.
    The way Dvalin says it really makes it seem like he ascended in this world's tenure, that the current Dwarven council was his council when he was mortal.

    There's also just the implication that ascended gods usually don't make it through the interregnum period between worlds that well.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Alternately:

    Chilli-Cheese Fries ascended after the Great Theatre Snack Food Ragnarok after going down fighting the Milk Dudes and their legions of Goobers and Raisinettes. For his epic sacrifice on behalf of the Non-Traditional Alliance he was rewarded by granting him permanent outsider status.

    Over many incarnations he proved his ability to generate more sustenance than he consumed, so the Northern Pantheon kept using him in the first generation of their new world. He has been, variously, Ray, demigod of cartiligeous bottom feeders in the coral reef world, Duke, demigod of diesel truck drivers in the endless highway world, and Trash, demigod of guitar solos in the headbanger world.

    When Thor sobered up he realized that the dwarves would need a strong leader, so he mind-wiped his trusty minion and reincarnated him as Dvalin, the perfect dwarf-king.
    Last edited by brian 333; 2023-12-01 at 09:44 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    If the idea is that the snarl is already free and wants to eat the gods - why doesn't it?
    Good question! Thank you for bringing in this fact!

    So TDO is not The Snarl, but it's probable that The Snarl created him.

    The Snarl "disassembled" many worlds and were able to create it's own.
    It also """disassembled""" many gods and probably created it's own.

    This way TDO doesn't really need to be perfectly the same color of The Snarl.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm not as certain. I've been described as a "snacc" so far be it from me to assume a dwarf can't also be.
    The level of worship to be a god is much higher than what is presumably required to be a demigod, otherwise the demigods would be full gods instead. Therefore, if TDO doesn't have enough worship to survive into the next creation, it's a high likelihood the demigods don't either and new ones come into being with each world.

    Therefore the odds of Dvalin being from a previous world are extremely low, compared to having become a demigod in THIS world's tenure.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    The level of worship to be a god is much higher than what is presumably required to be a demigod, otherwise the demigods would be full gods instead. Therefore, if TDO doesn't have enough worship to survive into the next creation, it's a high likelihood the demigods don't either and new ones come into being with each world.

    Therefore the odds of Dvalin being from a previous world are extremely low, compared to having become a demigod in THIS world's tenure.
    Well, what is the difference between a god and a demigod, in D&D? If that's version dependent, we know that the deities and demigods in Stickworld pre-exist the changeover to 3.5 seen in the first strip, and if Ian Starshine really was a first-edition thief, the deities and demigods presumably were first-ed too. (Did the properties of the Ds & DGs update when the world's D&D edition changed? Can any of that version stuff be taken seriously, given that the earliest strips have been deemed not-entirely-canonical? How does this connect with the premises that the gods created Stickworld, but that Gygax and Arneson meta-created the system?)

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    In 2e and 3.x, a demigod is simply the lowest rank of deity. They have all the traits of lesser deities or intermediate ones or greater ones. The difference lies in having a smaller and/or more regional worshipper base and usually a very limited, specialized or unimportant portfolio. Some of their abilities regarding sensing stuff in their portfolio or building divine realms are lesser, but the difference isn't greater than the one between intermediate and greater deity.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Dvalin is a demigod and is ostensibly the first of the Dwarven kings. He is as obsessed with honor as the rest of his kin, in a world where being the most honorable possible being is a matter of afterlife or Hel for dwarves, and this is a unique circumstance for this world owing to their bet.

    Also: Hel is weakened enough that her NOT making it to the next world is a real possibility. Which suggests that it's very much NOT an easy thing to survive from the end of one world to another. It's unlikely that he's from the previous world, because if he were it'd be most likely he'd have died in the interim.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    Dvalin is a demigod and is ostensibly the first of the Dwarven kings. He is as obsessed with honor as the rest of his kin, in a world where being the most honorable possible being is a matter of afterlife or Hel for dwarves, and this is a unique circumstance for this world owing to their bet.

    Also: Hel is weakened enough that her NOT making it to the next world is a real possibility. Which suggests that it's very much NOT an easy thing to survive from the end of one world to another. It's unlikely that he's from the previous world, because if he were it'd be most likely he'd have died in the interim.
    Unless sponsor deities feed him over the interregnum.

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    The level of worship to be a god is much higher than what is presumably required to be a demigod, otherwise the demigods would be full gods instead.
    I do not think that remotely follows.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Unless sponsor deities feed him over the interregnum.
    Plausible, but unsupported.

    I, for one, would go the other way and say most demigods are likely from this world, and will not make it to the next(Not that they are told of this). Mostly due to not having enough nourishment of some type.
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm also reasonably certain Thrym was a mortal who ascended in the current world. Hel explaining how things were different in the last world and Thrym thinking Hel always looked the same make a lot more sense if that's the case.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    I appreciate that Belkar and Elan are on the exact same wavelength here. These two are people who can appreciate good food.


    I'm not too familiar with the classifications, but since Thor mentioned outsiders going crazy when they find out the world is a remade one, I wonder if the Modron would go a little haywire upon seeing the threads? I'd be curious to see how a being of absolute Law would react to a structured creation unraveling regardless, so here's hoping the contract doesn't end before they explore the "true" path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    The damaged panel frames are really cool, and it's interesting how Elan is fascinated by the Threads in perhaps a similar way to how Laurin was captivated by the Snarl before it struck back in 945.
    Huh. That's fascinating, actually. We're now three for three on the the threads of creation entrancing beings who look at it. Four for four if you count Soon's wife in the crayon exposition. The difference is that all the other times, it was the Snarl. This time, it's not necessarily connected to the Snarl directly, even if this is the material it's made of.

    If it was just the Snarl, I woulda proposed something about how this is the effect of a 3-quiddity creatures seeing a 4-quiddity creation.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychronia View Post
    I appreciate that Belkar and Elan are on the exact same wavelength here.
    That might be due to them being a pair of immature jackanapes
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-12-02 at 12:13 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    That might be due to them being a pair of immature jackanapes
    There's a lot of early characterization that looks wrong in hindsight, but I love that it's still easy to guess who drew which parts of that.

  19. - Top - End - #199
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychronia View Post
    Huh. That's fascinating, actually. We're now three for three on the the threads of creation entrancing beings who look at it. Four for four if you count Soon's wife in the crayon exposition.
    Who in our world would not be fascinated if they could see atoms with the naked eye?

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Devil

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    I did. They are nothing special. Pretty boring actually. Totally not worth not sleeping for five days and nights just to gain that ability.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingMist View Post
    Who in our world would not be fascinated if they could see atoms with the naked eye?
    ...That's a fair point. I'm reminded of that one All Star Superman scene.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Redcloak is able, but he chooses not to. At least, that's what he said to Durkon. He is giving TDO some space, or whatever.
    Instead of blackmailing the gods with the threat of opening a rift in their domain, actually opening a rift, and maye even multiple of them, in those divine domains and killing the gods. Wrong quotation.
    Last edited by Precure; 2023-12-05 at 11:46 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Precure View Post
    Instead of blackmailing the gods with the threat of opening a rift in their domain, actually opening a rift, and maye even multiple of them, in those divine domains and killing the gods.
    I'm sorry, but could you please connect the dots for me? I am not sure how this applies to my comment about Redcloak and his ability to Commune with TDO. My point is that he can but chooses not to. He said as much to Durkon. I'm not sure how the reply relates to that.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    I'm sorry, but could you please connect the dots for me? I am not sure how this applies to my comment about Redcloak and his ability to Commune with TDO.
    I'm not sure. I was quoting someone else, not you.

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    What would be victory, then? After all, the gods would also destroy the planet if The Plan comes to fruition. If the idea is that the snarl is already free and wants to eat the gods - why doesn't it? If it wants cooperation - why is TDO dodging instead of talking?
    Instead of blackmailing the gods with the threat of opening a rift in their domain, actually opening a rift, and maye even multiple of them, in those divine domains and killing the gods.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1291 - The Discussion Thread

    Good personell managment. So challenging.
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