Domino Quartz's Delightfully Quaint Random Banter Thread #248

[Anonymouswizard]

Bold of someone who pronounces "Lieutenant" with an F to comment on spelling things correctly.

You're right, I pronounce it correctly


While I'm generally fine bring average height it did cause issues when crowds would let my ex pass but didn't notice me.

[Peelee]

You're right, I pronounce it correctly

Hmmm.

The reason why people from the commonwealth say "lef-tenant" can probably be attributed to the U being misread as a V during the middle ages, which in turn developed into and F sound.

You pronounce it the way you do because the Brits couldn't even read their own language, according to themselves.

[Anonymouswizard]

Hmmm.

I said I pronounce it 'correctly'. I don't know why you lot all started doing this weird thing where it sounds like someone renting a lavatory.

[Rynjin]

I'm just surprised nobody harped on the fact that it's "spelled". Spelt is a type of grain. =p

[halfeye]

I'm just surprised nobody harped on the fact that it's "spelled". Spelt is a type of grain. =p

It is a grain now, but that's new. Spelt is also correct for spelling.

[Rynjin]

It is a grain now, but that's new. Spelt is also correct for spelling.

Spelt is correct in the UK, but as far as I'm aware would get rejected by any US editor. Just one of those linguistic drifts that...I don't really know WHY it drifted. I could probably look it up, but eh.

[Peelee]

I said I pronounce it 'correctly'. I don't know why you lot all started doing this weird thing where it sounds like someone renting a lavatory.

You don't though. You pronounce "lef-tenant". You pronounce "correctly" correctly.

[Anonymouswizard]

Spelt is correct in the UK, but as far as I'm aware would get rejected by any US editor. Just one of those linguistic drifts that...I don't really know WHY it drifted. I could probably look it up, but eh.

Tbf a lot of the time 'what is correct in the UK' is both. The one exception is chips: if they're thick and served with vinegar referring to them as 'fries' is cause for a mobbing.

You don't though. You pronounce "lef-tenant". You pronounce "correctly" correctly.

I have a very specific accent that comes from one street in the home counties, causes plenty of confusion. It's why I pronounce 'trans woman' as 'bloody gorgeous'.

[Peelee]

I have a very specific accent that comes from one street in the home counties

Yes, I'm familiar with how being British works.

[Rater202]

I have a very specific accent that comes from one street in the home counties, causes plenty of confusion. It's why I pronounce 'trans woman' as 'bloody gorgeous'.

Yes, I'm familiar with how being British works.

If I recall, that was a joke in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

[TaiLiu]

Spelt is correct in the UK, but as far as I'm aware would get rejected by any US editor. Just one of those linguistic drifts that... I don't really know WHY it drifted. I could probably look it up, but eh.

I think the British spellings are a lot of fun. Spelt, whilst, amidst, amongst, betwixt ... Maybe there are others, but the wiki page about this doesn't mention them.

Looking it up gives me info about an "unetymological t," whatever that means. This paper about rare affixes in English mentions the t suffix, but I didn't find it useful.

@Metastachydium, do you have any special insight about this? :O

[Anonymouswizard]

If I recall, that was a joke in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

Yes, but while exaggerated it's basically true. I don't know how Americans deal with only having four accents for an entire continent (which, as everybody knows, are 'generic', 'southern drawl', 'Californian', and 'French Canadian's).

[Rater202]

You ever get asked to cite something that's common knowledge and then when you go looking for it there's no actual one place that has all the information and a number of promising links end up not having any citations?

[Peelee]

Yes, but while exaggerated it's basically true. I don't know how Americans deal with only having four accents for an entire continent (which, as everybody knows, are 'generic', 'southern drawl', 'Californian', and 'French Canadian's).

Note to self, A-Wiz has never heard Americans speak.

For reals, you're ignoring New York Common, New York Jewish, Midwestern Donchyano, Mid-Atlantic (which needs to make a comeback), Poor Bostonian, Rich Bostonian (see Major Charles Emerson Winchester III), etc etc. You're taking Californian as a single entity instead of Valley Girl and Surfer, and worst of all, you're conflating all Southern. Here's a quick and dirty primer on Southern drawls.

Oh, and French Canadian isn't an American accent. It's a Canadian accent. And i think even the Canadians might bristle at that. Shoulda gone with Cajun accent.

[Anonymouswizard]

Note to self, A-Wiz has never heard Americans speak.

For reals, you're ignoring New York Common, New York Jewish, Midwestern Donchyano, Mid-Atlantic (which needs to make a comeback), Poor Bostonian, Rich Bostonian (see Major Charles Emerson Winchester III), etc etc. You're taking Californian as a single entity instead of Valley Girl and Surfer, and worst of all, you're conflating all Southern. Here's a quick and dirty primer on Southern drawls.

Fine, it averages out to like one per state, still depressingly homogeneous.

Oh, and French Canadian isn't an American accent. It's a Canadian accent. And i think even the Canadians might bristle at that. Shoulda gone with Cajun accent.

*double checks map* no, definitely on the continent.

[DavidSh]

...
*double checks map* no, definitely on the continent.

In that case, you are missing the multiplicity of Mexican accents.

[Keltest]

Fine, it averages out to like one per state, still depressingly homogeneous.

We have like five just in Pennsylvania.

[HalfTangible]

Fine, it averages out to like one per state, still depressingly homogeneous.

How is 50 separate accents homogeneous?

[Peelee]

*double checks map* no, definitely on the continent.

In addition to what everyone else said, people from Canada call themselves Canadians. People from the US call themselves Americans. People from Mexico call themselves Mexican (or the Spanish equivalent). Heck, Puerto Rico is a US territory and people from there call themselves Puerto Ricans.

If you want to ignore what people call themselves and label them much more generically, you certainly can, but it's also a stance i wouldn't expect from some people.

[Anonymouswizard]

How is 50 separate accents homogeneous?

You're trying to spread a county's worth of accents across a country!

In addition to what everyone else said, people from Canada call themselves Canadians. People from the US call themselves Americans. People from Mexico call themselves Mexican (or the Spanish equivalent). Heck, Puerto Rico is a US territory and people from there call themselves Puerto Ricans.

If you want to ignore what people call themselves and label them much more generically, you certainly can, but it's also a stance i wouldn't expect from some people.

I mean this all stems from me making a joke about how American accents are less varied, of course in this instance I'm going to be overly generic if I feel the resulting joke is better!

Although it would really help if we had a separate term for 'citizens of the USA', instead of reusing the name for those who live on the continent

[Keltest]

You're trying to spread a county's worth of accents across a country!



I mean this all stems from me making a joke about how American accents are less varied, of course in this instance I'm going to be overly generic if I feel the resulting joke is better!

Although it would really help if we had a separate term for 'citizens of the USA', instead of reusing the name for those who live on the continent

There are two continents named America. Why would you not be distinguishing them anyway?

[Anonymouswizard]

There are two continents named America. Why would you not be distinguishing them anyway?

To be serious for a moment, it depends where you are in the world and even in places that consider them separate sometimes they get lumped together as 'the Americas'.

ETA: actually I was originally taught that the Americas were three continents...

[Peelee]

You're trying to spread a county's worth of accents across a country!



I mean this all stems from me making a joke about how American accents are less varied, of course in this instance I'm going to be overly generic if I feel the resulting joke is better!

Although it would really help if we had a separate term for 'citizens of the USA', instead of reusing the name for those who live on the continent

We do! It's "American". If you're told, "there's an American in the next room" would you expect someone from Panama?

[Jasdoif]

Although it would really help if we had a separate term for 'citizens of the USA', instead of reusing the name for those who live on the continent

Side effect of the utilitarian name, I'm afraid. "They're states. They're united. They're in America" doesn't leave a whole lot of leeway for developing demonyms.

Though come to think of it, I have heard "North Americans" used to refer to people across the continent.

[Bartmanhomer]

I will never go to Times Square to see the big ball drop on New Year's Eve ever again because there are no bathrooms at Times Square and I'm a veteran to see the big ball drop since 2006! 😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫😫

[Metastachydium]

I recall saying "they don't make full-body swimsuits for men anymore"

They kinda do, if wetsuits count.

I think the British spellings are a lot of fun. Spelt, whilst, amidst, amongst, betwixt ... Maybe there are others, but the wiki page about this doesn't mention them.

Looking it up gives me info about an "unetymological t," whatever that means. This paper about rare affixes in English mentions the t suffix, but I didn't find it useful.

@Metastachydium, do you have any special insight about this? :O

The history of the English language is not really my strict sense domain, but I can elaborate on the current consensus regarding these, I believe. You can't find this type of -t among standard suffixes and it is described as "unetymological" because it is understood not to be your classic derivational or inflectional affix, but rather an excrescent, an epenthetical sound that carries neither semantical nor morphological value and is believed to have entered the composition of these words for (at this point and as far as I can tell) obscure phonetical reasons. I'm inclined to suspect it might have spread further by analogy, but I cannot prove that offhandedly and I'm too lazy to look into possible modern examples.

Now, do mind that this is only the case for the adverbs. Irregular verb forms such as spelt have an entirely different origin. There, the -t is simply an archaic form of the Germanic dental tense/aspect marker and as such a proper inflectional suffix, which is much older than whatever altered the pronounciation of the adverbs (Old English versus Late Middle/Early Modern).

[tyckspoon]

They kinda do, if wetsuits count.

The history of the English language is not really my strict sense domain, but I can elaborate on the current consensus regarding these, I believe. You can't find this type of -t among standard suffixes and it is described as "unetymological" because it is understood not to be your classic derivational or inflectional affix, but rather an excrescent, an epenthetical sound that carries neither semantical nor morphological value and is believed to have entered the composition of these words for (at this point and as far as I can tell) obscure phonetical reasons. I'm inclined to suspect it might have spread further by analogy, but I cannot prove that offhandedly and I'm too lazy to look into possible modern examples.

That sounds like a lot of field-specific jargon for 'It's just there, we don't really know why' with a bit of 'people liked how it looked/sounded on one word so they started using it on other words with similar constructions.'

[Rater202]

I have seen enough posts showing a kids tests or homework with correct answers marked as incorrect with explanations that prove that whoever graded them doesn't know what the **** they're doing that if I became all-powerful I feel one of the first things I'f so is create a fae like entity whose sole purpose is to show up, smack someone who gives an unfair grade across the face with a mackerel, explain why they're wrong, and then keep smacking them until they admit that they're a dumbass and fix the grades.

[Batcathat]

I have seen enough posts showing a kids tests or homework with correct answers marked as incorrect with explanations that prove that whoever graded them doesn't know what the **** they're doing that if I became all-powerful I feel one of the first things I'f so is create a fae like entity whose sole purpose is to show up, smack someone who gives an unfair grade across the face with a mackerel, explain why they're wrong, and then keep smacking them until they admit that they're a dumbass and fix the grades.

Would you consider expanding that to teachers who answer any question at all with some version of "That's just the way it is", "It just works like that" or similar?

[Rynjin]

Would you consider expanding that to teachers who answer any question at all with some version of "That's just the way it is", "It just works like that" or similar?

Two smacks for that one. I actually had a coworker try this **** at my last job. She didn't last long.