Will somebody arrive mid-fight to seize The Gate?

[Grendelkin]

Sweet, curious Veldrina was on the Mechane. She only needs to say the right/wrong thing once, and the Creeds would have a clue.

[Peelee]

Sweet, curious Veldrina was on the Mechane. She only needs to say the right/wrong thing once, and the Creeds would have a clue.

Fair. However, that still leaves the fact that the Gods moot has comms blackout while it's going on, Dvalin has been known to delay for large swaths of time, and the Mechane was only present at the site for an hour. Even if the other elemental creeds found a length of time incommunicado suspicious enough to investigate, found the location kf the secret Godsmoot, decided to invade the sanctity of tbe Godsmoot, were able to finagle information out kf people who are bound to secrecy, and tracked down the Mechane.... This would be weeks of investigating and traveling all over. Meanwhile everything is happening now.

[Grendelkin]

They could commune with the elements to track the Mechane, if not directly, than by mentions of a zeppelin ship headed in the right direction.
Or they could go directly to Firmament, and from there track down Kraagor's Gate as a strange area 'where the land is silent, as though hushed before a great peril'.

As for knowing where the Godsmoot is being held - who says the Creed of Stone hid that from those more closely allied to them than the Churches? They could be in constant contact, or just waiting for the Creed of Stone to report whether they'd made any progress towards equal representation. In that case, a day's silence really would be cause for alarm.

[Kardwill]

Let's play ^^

* The "secret godsmoot" itself was known to a bunch of people. Demigods' clergy that didn't even bother to make the trip anymore, transportations, escorts. The ushers/keepers were selected from a creed, indicating a will to at least involve them in an organisation capacity, if not a political one. Not-Durkon expected to "find informations" about it simply by asking random questions to random clergymen in a random gnome city. And Grontor was willing to let unrelated people wait outside the main door, so security was not very high. The idea that the other Creeds, which were in the same political agenda than old Grontor, got the memo from him doesn't sound that far fetched.

* The ushers/door security were vamped, at least one of them was torn to shred. Any "friendly cleric neighbor" knocking at the main door would quickly find cause for concern, and the only people able to respond to someone calling and tell them what happened (or that the moot was still in session) were the people initially in the council room. Probably the bodyguards, since the clerics can't exit the council grounds.

* Not sure the bodyguards feel bound to their oath of secrecy (or anything gods-related) right now. Especially the guards of priests whose god voted yes. And Veldrina is a walking, breathing and talking security breach


So the main factor would be : When do the other creeds come knocking when they don't get Gontor's call about their political proposal? (and neither he, nor any member of the cult they might know, answers to Sendings)

If it's a week, the trail is cold and gone. If it's less than a day, they might be able to catch up the Mechane around Firmament (or contact members of the Creeds in Firmament. Although it's likely that dwarves were mostly drawn to the Creed of Stone, whose local chapter has just been exterminated - A fair number of the vamped clerics were dwarves)

[Grendelkin]

I'd like to think there are at least a very few members of the Creed of the Winds in Firmament. The dwarves believe the sky is where Thor lives. Sooner or later, wouldn't you get someone who gets caught up in the mysteries of the realm, instead of its occupant?

[Tzardok]

I'm completely blindsided by the idea that there's supposed to be an alliance of element worshippers that are in continous contact in the first place.

[KorvinStarmast]

That's the tricky one. The simplest way to do it would be to track down the Mechane. A bunch of high level air clerics might be able to do it, but on the other hand, the ship is probably protected against divination, since Julio has dangerous foes.

Near the end of BRitF or the very beginning of UD that was stated on screen: the installation of Scrying bafflers.

As for knowing where the Godsmoot is being held - who says the Creed of Stone hid that from those more closely allied to them than the Churches? They could be in constant contact, or just waiting for the Creed of Stone to report whether they'd made any progress towards equal representation. In that case, a day's silence really would be cause for alarm.

Might be. It might be common knowledge among the elemental faith communities that the godsmoots are known to take a long time ...

[Grendelkin]

I'm completely blindsided by the idea that there's supposed to be an alliance of element worshippers that are in continous contact in the first place.

I know the elemental faiths are usually presented as being opposed to one another, but if you think about it... why? The elements work in opposition, but are all part of the whole, and each augments at least one of the others.
If the clerics of the elements don't have to follow the orders of a jerkass deity, and can really plot their own course, then why wouldn't they team up against the theists who keep denying them equal standing? And who else would they turn to for help and support, if not each other?

[Tzardok]

What befuddles me more is: how do we know that there are any other elemental cults like that creed in the first place? How do we know the Creed of Stone is in any way important and not just one cult of Earth amongst many? How do we know that there are exactly four elemental creeds (don't forget, this is the world that has Titanium elementals), that these four creeds are allied and that these creeds are powerful and influential enough to play any role? Did I miss something in the comic?

[Peelee]

They could commune with the elements to track the Mechane, if not directly, than by mentions of a zeppelin ship headed in the right direction.

We've seen two Hugh level clerics openly talk about how Commune basically doesn't work unless the god takes a deep, personal interest in you, and not even necessarily then. Divination in general are not simple and easy hacks in Stickworld.

Or they could go directly to Firmament, and from there track down Kraagor's Gate as a strange area 'where the land is silent, as though hushed before a great peril'.

Except it's not that. There's a bug ear village right on top of it. So either this finds nothing, or it finds a different thing entirely.

The big issue here and s you arr making assumptions and then assumptions based on those assumptions, and assuming that ij that case, it would absolutely happen immediately. It's a house of cards.

Let's play ^^

* The "secret godsmoot" itself was known to a bunch of people. Demigods' clergy that didn't even bother to make the trip anymore, transportations, escorts. The ushers/keepers were selected from a creed, indicating a will to at least involve them in an organisation capacity, if not a political one. Not-Durkon expected to "find informations" about it simply by asking random questions to random clergymen in a random gnome city. And Grontor was willing to let unrelated people wait outside the main door, so security was not very high. The idea that the other Creeds, which were in the same political agenda than old Grontor, got the memo from him doesn't sound that far fetched.

* The ushers/door security were vamped, at least one of them was torn to shred. Any "friendly cleric neighbor" knocking at the main door would quickly find cause for concern, and the only people able to respond to someone calling and tell them what happened (or that the moot was still in session) were the people initially in the council room. Probably the bodyguards, since the clerics can't exit the council grounds.

* Not sure the bodyguards feel bound to their oath of secrecy (or anything gods-related) right now. Especially the guards of priests whose god voted yes. And Veldrina is a walking, breathing and talking security breach


So the main factor would be : When do the other creeds come knocking when they don't get Gontor's call about their political proposal? (and neither he, nor any member of the cult they might know, answers to Sendings)

If it's a week, the trail is cold and gone. If it's less than a day, they might be able to catch up the Mechane around Firmament (or contact members of the Creeds in Firmament. Although it's likely that dwarves were mostly drawn to the Creed of Stone, whose local chapter has just been exterminated - A fair number of the vamped clerics were dwarves)

Ok i started reading and this seems pretty fun to combat with you. Downside is i just got to thr gym and been doing a few walking lapses so far but need to get more into it so I'll respond much more detailed later!

[Kardwill]

I'm completely blindsided by the idea that there's supposed to be an alliance of element worshippers that are in continous contact in the first place.

Oh, we're totally making them up for the "find the most unlikely faction racing for the gate" contest ;)

But we know, from what Grontor was trying to tell not-Durkon, that there are several non-theistic religions around, that they are not happy with the current situation, and that some of them were lobbying for their inclusion in the godsmoot. And Grontor, a dwarf, was eager to cooperate with freakin' Hel, another "underdog", to get a foot in the door, so cooperation between creeds/orders/philosophies/whatever to have some strength through number sounds like something the Creed of Stone would have tried to establish.

[gbaji]

They could commune with the elements to track the Mechane, if not directly, than by mentions of a zeppelin ship headed in the right direction.
Or they could go directly to Firmament, and from there track down Kraagor's Gate as a strange area 'where the land is silent, as though hushed before a great peril'.

If they could somehow commune with their elements with that level of specificity, couldn't they just commune to detect the presense of the gate and final dungeon within the stone of the Hollow in the first place?

Dunno. Put me down as finding this "extremely far fetched".

As for knowing where the Godsmoot is being held - who says the Creed of Stone hid that from those more closely allied to them than the Churches? They could be in constant contact, or just waiting for the Creed of Stone to report whether they'd made any progress towards equal representation. In that case, a day's silence really would be cause for alarm.

I guess my second objection is: why? What storytelling purpose does adding this extra force into the mix serve? If the only answer is "well, it would be cool to have them show up again", but there's no actual purpose that they serve/provide or resolution that they aid in bringing about, then they are just "kitchen sink" writing and should be avoided.

I mean. If that's what we're doing, then put me down for Solt Lorkyurg's death to have created an outcry and an entire army of gnomes will arrive seeking vengence on Belkar. I mean, it *could* happen, right? And the Angry Gnome Posse (AGP) could certainly have traveled to the north and talked to their bretherin in Tinkertown and learned about where Belkar and his allies were headed in their airship, and gnomes can be any class they want, so they could have nearly unlmited resources and capabilities, in theory. I envision the most epic leveled powerful gnomes the world can bring to bear, just showing up. Any moment now. Just... wait for it...

[Tubercular Ox]

Okay, but the opening of this thread was, "Which group is least likely to appear?" And we already had the guesses that ignored the spirit of the question in favor of as much goofiness as possible. So we're homing in here on the limit of plausibility. Why act like this just because we're coming at it from the unlikely side?

[Peelee]

Okay, but the opening of this thread was, "Which group is least likely to appear?" And we already had the guesses that ignored the spirit of the question in favor of as much goofiness as possible. So we're homing in here on the limit of plausibility. Why act like this just because we're coming at it from the unlikely side?

Well that's easy: because I forgot that was asked.

I withdraw all of my questions/objections.

[KorvinStarmast]

We've seen two Hugh level clerics openly talk about...

Fun with typos: was Hugh a high level cleric? Hugh who?

There's a bug ear village right on top of it.

A village full of bug ears would be half full of bugs, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, fun with typos.

[Kardwill]

Okay, but the opening of this thread was, "Which group is least likely to appear?" And we already had the guesses that ignored the spirit of the question in favor of as much goofiness as possible. So we're homing in here on the limit of plausibility. Why act like this just because we're coming at it from the unlikely side?

Yeah, if the question was "which group will actually appear to seize the gate", there's not much room for debate : We all know the IFCC is on it (and my money would be on some unholy travesty of the Linear Guild - say, at least Sabine bringing back Nale in some form or another - as their frontline troops, but that's far more speculative)

[brian 333]

Yeah, if the question was "which group will actually appear to seize the gate", there's not much room for debate : We all know the IFCC is on it (and my money would be on some unholy travesty of the Linear Guild - say, at least Sabine bringing back Nale in some form or another - as their frontline troops, but that's far more speculative)

Nale ain't coming back. In any form.

Except in a prequel about Tarquin's rise to power.

[Kardwill]

Nale ain't coming back. In any form.

I said it was pretty risky, but I'm ready to take that bet anyway ^^

The IFCC said that it was time to "get their followers' hads dirty" with a direct action. I'm betting that we'll see familiar faces, and not complete strangers. Sabine and Qarr, of course, but Nale feels right for that too. That would allow a closure to that part of Elan's story.

So yeah, I think Nale and "the vessel" are connected.

But I could be totally wrong. And I'm perfectly fine with that : Rich is a far better writer than me. The story would be pretty boring if I could reliably predict his story beats.

[Tubercular Ox]

Sabine is furious about losing Nale. She's spent significant vacation time doing what must surely be absolutely nothing of value to the plot, while also picking up a vessel. Redcloak has access to True Resurrection, and Roy made a big deal about how hard to find high level casters are back when Durkon died.

The pieces are there, more so than some other things in this thread.

Personally I think Thog is going to be the vessel, but I've flip-flopped on that over time so we'll see.

[Peelee]

Redcloak has access to True Resurrection

Does he?

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

[Tubercular Ox]

Does he?

Yes, he does, as your quote shows when you look at the context.

[Peelee]

Yes, he does, as your quote shows when you look at the context.

I don't know why I'm surprised that the author literally says "i treat this spell as not available to everyone" and you insist it is available to Redcloak anyway. And yet, i am.

Optimism, thy name is Peelee.

[Kardwill]

Yeah, Laurin implied that it wouldbe impossible to raise Nale when she disintegrated him. I really doubt we'll see Original Flavour Nale again.

His damned soul has been freshly delivered to the Lower Planes, though. And Sabine might be angry/desperate/in love enough to do something stupid to "rescue" him.

[Tubercular Ox]

I don't know why I'm surprised that the author literally says "i treat this spell as not available to everyone" and you insist Redcloak has access to it anyway. And yet, i am.

See? You can ignore the context of a quote and articulate a point without asking passive aggressive questions that force the other guy to invent your argument for you.

I still hate this behavior because it's still low-level abusive. It's not funny and it's not clever. It's just mean.

[Peelee]

See? You can ignore the context of a quote and articulate a point without asking passive aggressive questions that force the other guy to invent your argument for you.

I still hate this behavior because it's still low-level abusive. It's not funny and it's not clever. It's just mean.

This is not abusive, and claiming it is lessens the impact of actual abuse. This wasn't meant to be funny or clever. This was meant to underscore that you ignore and disagree with the author when they comment directly on their own work and openly say in no uncertain terms how they treat certain aspects.

Please, illuminate me to the context that shows the author actually means the exact opposite of what he said.

For me, I'll give you some context in favor of my point (boding mine):

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

Spoiler

Show

There you go. Context. Which I deliberately included in the part i quoted.

[gbaji]

Well that's easy: because I forgot that was asked.

I kinda forgot as well. Having covered that base already though, I still go with the Angry Gnome Posse then.

[Tubercular Ox]

This is not abusive, and claiming it is lessens the impact of actual abuse. This wasn't meant to be funny or clever. This was meant to underscore that you ignore and disagree with the author when they comment directly on their own work and openly say in no uncertain terms how they treat certain aspects.

It failed. All I saw was yet another conversational turn that ends up with people struggling to entertain you at the expense of actually understanding each other, like when Grendelkin got stuck in a loop of inventing stories for you when you could've shortcut to the bigger questions that could've ended the loop.

[Peelee]

It failed. All I saw was yet another attempt to steer the conversation towards people struggling to entertain you at the expense of actually understanding each other, like when you stuck Grendelkin in a loop of inventing stories for you when you could've shortcut to the bigger questions that could've ended the loop.

Then that's on you.

Also, why are you making accusations that i demand you invent my argument or that other people are inventing stories on my behalf (which is incredibly uncharitable and borderline conspiracy theory)? My argument is literally "the author said this". At least one other person seems to agree. I even emphasized context. Meanwhile, you only said "not in context" and refused to elaborate. When I asked you what the context is that shows the author means the exact opposite of what he said, you just complained. If there's anyone "perpetuating a loop", it's you, because you're just griping about the responses instead of showing the context you think proves your case.

[Tubercular Ox]

My argument is literally "the author said this".

No it wasn't! You literally said, "Does he?" You made it homework for me to figure out what you were on about. I had to construct both your side of the argument and my side of the argument if I wanted to continue the conversation. And the first thing you do after that is to try and duck the whole thing by telling people I guessed wrong about what you meant, which is definitely one of the darker advantages of arguing like this in the first place.

[Peelee]

No it wasn't! You literally said, "Does he?" You made it homework for me to figure out what you were on about. I had to construct both your side of the argument and my side of the argument if I wanted to continue the conversation. And the first thing you do after that is to try and duck the whole thing by telling people I guessed wrong about what you meant, which is definitely one of the darker advantages of arguing like this in the first place.

I said "does he" followed with a quote where the author said "I prefer to simply treat [ True Resurrection] as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why."


You should not have needed to guess about what i meant. There should not have been any mystery or ambiguity. This was completely, 100% surface level what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

If you had to construct my side of the argument.... Again, dude, that's on you. In fact, I'll invite criticism here. If anyone at all was confused at what i meant here, please, feel free to add your voices.

Also, Ox, i note that i asked context is that you claim makes the author mean the opposite of what he said, and you still complain about me instead of giving said context. For someone who takes issue with having to guess and assume what the other person means, you're certainly not doing your argument any favors here.