What monsters were cooler in the older editions?

[stenver]

I've been diving into original lores and discovered they are fascinating. I'm definitely bringing this stuff to my 5e games.

Examples include rust monsters, who destroy armor/metal with a single touch, but ultimately, it comes down to blood, which causes the rust. You could actually harvest the blood and weaponize it.

Or Rakshasha, who are immune to most damages, but a single blessed bolt will kill it. I find that way more interesting than vulnerability to piercing from good characters, especially considering most 5e players don't bother assigning an alignment anymore anyway and forcing them to do it would be a big hint.

What else was cooler in the older editions?

[Tanarii]

Almost all humanoids are cooler when they were unambiguously Team Bad Guy. They can even be fun as PCs that way. c.f. Orcs of Thar from BECMI.

But in particular Kobolds were cooler when they were dog-faced people with scales and not dragon-people.

[Psyren]

I think Spell Resistance was scarier back when it was simply the ability to no sell magical attacks entirely rather than being a boost to the save. It was annoying to deal with as a spellcaster - well, it was until Orbs were made into instantaneous conjurations - but it made some monsters truly worrisome to run into.

[Telok]

Golems were way cooler AD&D. They were flat out immune to magic outside of a few specific spells. Casters got pretty creative in using the scenery and spells that affected the environment (literally affected the environment, web, grease, and such didn't cut it) when golems showed up. And honestly even the warriors didn't want to face-tank them because they hit reasonably well. Because they were ordered around you could win the encounter if you figured out the orders and hijacked them, or took out their master. If you could snipe & run until a clay or flesh golem went berserk you could get them to chase other creatures while you hid.

I always thought demons were better when they were typed and the ones in the MM were explicitly just examples of posibilities. There was a random generator in the DMG too. The whole soul-gem thing was pretty flavorful as well (or was that bit for devils? been a long time since I looked).

AD&D terrasque was better. Not so much for the stats (tho those were really nasty for AD&D) but simply because it wasn't a joke monster you could snipe or kite to death with low or mid level characters. People will argue about it, but the fact they need argue details & specific interpretations to instead of it being generally accepted the critter is a major death machine is the big strike against the later versions.

[Mordar]

Though I only have feel to base this on, I think the trap monsters and dungeon ecology monsters were more entertaining/engaging in the AD&D era. Things like:

• Trapper
• Shrieker
• Piercer
• Cloaker
• Roper
• Otyugh and Neo-Otyugh
• Gelatinous Cubes
• Slimes and Puddings

In my experience the aesthetics of the dungeon crawl have been replaced by higher-minded adventures that build on a homogenous ecology rather than a more "organic but gamelike" dungeon ecology. The critters above are, I think, part and parcel of that loss. Obviously YMMV. Confident all of these existed in 3e, but not sure about 4e or 5e, so I'm mostly old-manning here.

- M

[KorvinStarmast]

Almost all humanoids are cooler when they were unambiguously Team Bad Guy. They can even be fun as PCs that way. c.f. Orcs of Thar from BECMI.

But in particular Kobolds were cooler when they were dog-faced people with scales and not dragon-people.

+1

AD&D terrasque was better.

Yes.

Though I only have feel to base this on, I think the trap monsters and dungeon ecology monsters were more entertaining/engaging in the AD&D era. Things like:

• Trapper
• Shrieker
• Piercer
• Cloaker
• Roper
• Otyugh and Neo-Otyugh
• Gelatinous Cubes
• Slimes and Puddings

In my experience the aesthetics of the dungeon crawl have been replaced by higher-minded adventures that build on a homogenous ecology rather than a more "organic but gamelike" dungeon ecology. The critters above are, I think, part and parcel of that loss. Obviously YMMV. Confident all of these existed in 3e, but not sure about 4e or 5e, so I'm mostly old-manning here.

- M

Green slime exists in 5e, but it's a trap in the DMG. All of those oozes and trappers made dungeons scarier.

[Leon]

Everything. Because if it still exists it got watered down a lot.

[SimonMoon6]

Water Weird If you didn't have "purify water" (a spell nobody would have chosen), then you couldn't beat it.

Vampires and anything else that drained levels. Because you actually lost levels. You didn't just get a generic "-1 to do stuff". Your levels were gone. All that experience was gone. Yeah, you could still use restoration to get those levels back, but without clerics, you were toast. So, these undead were like really scary. PCs generally aren't scared of any monsters, but anything that can take their levels away permanently? That's different. PCs would actively try to avoid fighting these monsters, which doesn't happen with any other monsters.

Rot Grub Oh, you can't cast "cure disease"? I guess you're dead.

[Yora]

Compared to 5th edition, everything that used to have spell-like abilities but no longer doesn't.

Aboleths and mariliths are the two where I spotted it first, but there are so many. When all they can do is make melee attacks, then what's the point of even including them? It's all the other things they can do that makes it interesting to descend into their lairs.

[Telok]

Compared to 5th edition, everything that used to have spell-like abilities but no longer doesn't.

Aboleths and mariliths are the two where I spotted it first, but there are so many. When all they can do is make melee attacks, then what's the point of even including them? It's all the other things they can do that makes it interesting to descend into their lairs.

Wait... 5e aboleths just make attacks? The illusion mazes, mind controlled monsters, and people turned into horror minions by the mucus aren't a thing any more?

Wow, checked and you're right. They kinda sort-of still have the mucus stuff (although weaker) but the rest are seriously gimped or just outright missing. Its a beat stick with a disease and some weak-to-middling mind control. Maybe scary if you meet it in the desert, but the disease is just a minor nuisance otherwise. That version of mind control breaks really easily.

[thorr-kan]

All of them.

Anything I used for 3E and use for 5E is informed by the encyclopedic depth of lore for 2E. Though I'm not above poaching something from later if it catches my eye.

[ngilop]

All of them.

Anything I used for 3E and use for 5E is informed by the encyclopedic depth of lore for 2E. Though I'm not above poaching something from later if it catches my eye.

Yeah... this

and also this..

But in particular Kobolds were cooler when they were dog-faced people with scales and not dragon-people.

what 3rd did to kobolds for some reason angered me so much more than what they did to any other humanoid.

really anything that was actually neat in 1st and 2nd (and to a lesser degreee 3rd) was tiers betters than the later editions.

[icefractal]

*put on flame-proof armor*
YMMV obviously, but I prefer draconic kobolds. There's an interesting contrast in them being generally weak foes who need to use traps and tricks to survive, while being visibly related to the strongest (flavor-wise, if not always mechanically) creatures around. Where-as dog kobolds overlap a lot more with goblins, IMO.


Definitely agree with this though:

Compared to 5th edition, everything that used to have spell-like abilities but no longer doesn't.

A lot of 5E monsters are just ... lacking. They're not much different than fighting an extra-tough Ogre. Which feels like a waste - with 5E's looser math/balance, it should be fertile ground for strange and unique monster abilities. Ironically, it ends up being the more rigid 4E that does way better in that regard (in terms of WotC-published stuff anyway, plenty of wacky 5E homebrew around).

[thorr-kan]

what 3rd did to kobolds for some reason angered me so much more than what they did to any other humanoid.

Strangely, I like the draconic kobolds. This scratch a reptilian itch that lizard men never did for me.

I also like the yippy little dog-men. I am large; meesa contain multitudes. (Back in the jar, Jar-Jar.)

Minotaurs. Dragonlance's League of Minotaurs on the continent of Taladas are cooler in 2E. The enduk of Mystara are winged minotaurs. That's epically cool right there. The yak-men of Zakhara a e-VUL body snatchers from the Roof of the World. Terrifyingly effective foes.

[Catullus64]

especially considering most 5e players don't bother assigning an alignment anymore anyway

Citation needed?

What else was cooler in the older editions?

With the caveat that this comes from limited play experience in BECMI & AD&D, I'm going to contend that your basic low-level Undead (Zombies and Skeletons) were much more threatening, and thus cooler. Not because they've changed, but because the game changed around them. In those editions, Morale checks were still an explicit part of the rules; a significant portion of encounters ended with routing the enemies rather than killing them all. In that context, a creature that never checks Morale, and is immune to a lot of spell effects to boot, is pretty tough when fought in numbers. Not only did this make The Restless Dead actually scary, but it also made the Cleric's ability to turn the undead feel really, really useful.

[KaussH]

I agree with the "All of them". There is an air of "The monsters must be fair" that was not really a thing. Level drain, insta death poison, liches whom could toss harm and time stop, ect. Even some of the lesser effects are looked down on now. Anything that can knock you out of the fight, mind control you for longer than a moment, ect... A lot of the monsters are just Damage dealers, and thats a little boring.

[Irongron]

Firbolgs. Actually one of the few creatures I thought better in 4e.

Also imps, purely because I love the illustration in the original fiend folio.

[Xuc Xac]

Dragons.

Back when alignment was limited to Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic and there was a Reaction Chart for the attitude of monsters, you couldn't know what to expect just by looking at what color a dragon was.

[Pauly]

Tengus.
Flight and invisibility at will plus some other cool abilities. They were truly terrifying especially in the hands of a DM with any tactical nous.

In 5E the get featherfall, no invisibility and some watered down abilities

[Witty Username]

Bookworms, by existing.

[Trafalgar]

Goblins

In B/X, goblins had 90' Infravision which was 30' better than any PC. It makes for some interesting ambush encounters.

[Prime32]

IIRC oldschool Ghosts had an aura which accelerated aging, causing PCs who fought one without appropriate prep/tactics to rapidly grow feeble and die regardless of stats (and yes, dying of old age prevents all forms of resurrection). If you didn't have a cleric or at least an elf, you were screwed. Even if you survived, you remained old until you found a cleric to undo it.

3e mongrelfolk was a weird take on the original mongrelman, changing their origin from "patchwork children of a cannibal-shapeshifter with unstable DNA, born with random patches of fur and hooves and lobster claws" to "tall goblin-men with lopsided ears born from miscegenation" and then trying to backpedal by showing them as everyman types. I think 5e reverted it.

[JellyPooga]

Strangely, I like the draconic kobolds. This scratch a reptilian itch that lizard men never did for me.

I liked the distinction/range in 3.5 that (I think) Monster Manual 3 introduced with the Poisondusk and Blackscale(?) Lizardfolk, though I'd have liked to have seen more still (reptiles are and should be a diverse bunch!). Until then, I was also disappointed at the lack of diversity in the lizardfolk/reptilian offerings. Kobolds becoming draconic made them stand apart as inherently magical, as opposed to their rougher/tougher, but more mundane lizardfolk cousins, which I liked.

I was never really a fan of the old-school dog-face kobolds because they seemed too much like "just another goblin" (small, weak, cowardly mook squad) rather than their own distinct race. I applauded 3.5ed for giving them something to differentiate them from other small-folk.

[Beelzebub1111]

I like poisons better in 3rd edtion. mostly becasue they harm you like real life poisons and presented a threat beyond just your hit points. when all damage can be healed with a good nights sleep, an asp lurking in a dark corner doesn't pack the same punch or level of terror that it could.

Older editions than that, I kind of hate how psionics and all things related got downgraded from "weird not-magic effects by alien creatures" To "spells with a different resource system" to "Literally just spells" as the editions went on. Nothing really makes it feel like its own thing.

[SimonMoon6]

I didn't like how poisons were almost completely inconsequential in 3rd edition. Poisons had to be really over the top to even be worth using. Out of the dozens of poisons in the game, how many actually saw play?

On the other hand, I'm not suggesting a return to 1st edition's poisons which were all "save or die", sometimes with a bonus to your save. Like even a mere giant centipede could kill a character of any level with a single bite, if they rolled a 1 on their save vs poison.

[Mordar]

I didn't like how poisons were almost completely inconsequential in 3rd edition. Poisons had to be really over the top to even be worth using. Out of the dozens of poisons in the game, how many actually saw play?

On the other hand, I'm not suggesting a return to 1st edition's poisons which were all "save or die", sometimes with a bonus to your save. Like even a mere giant centipede could kill a character of any level with a single bite, if they rolled a 1 on their save vs poison.

But...they weren't all save or die. Just the ones from monsters.

And, well...that was kind of the point. It is a darn deadly place out there!

- M

[Beelzebub1111]

I didn't like how poisons were almost completely inconsequential in 3rd edition. Poisons had to be really over the top to even be worth using. Out of the dozens of poisons in the game, how many actually saw play?

On the other hand, I'm not suggesting a return to 1st edition's poisons which were all "save or die", sometimes with a bonus to your save. Like even a mere giant centipede could kill a character of any level with a single bite, if they rolled a 1 on their save vs poison.

I was thinking more in terms of how it felt to be poisoned as a player. Ability damage wasn't character ending like it was in older editions but it was still enough to give you pause. you might not use anything besides con or unconsciousness poisons as a player, but fighting a giant spider was a threat to your day when it's "Guys, I don't feel so good" and a minute later you can barely lift your weapons. Again, reflective of poisons and venoms in the real world. Unlike earlier and later editions where it was "instantly liquify your organs" or "Ouch, okay put a bandaid on it, I'm good". It was tense and threatening at low levels but something still worth preparing against at high levels without being immediately life ending.

[Catullus64]

IIRC oldschool Ghosts had an aura which accelerated aging, causing PCs who fought one without appropriate prep/tactics to rapidly grow feeble and die regardless of stats (and yes, dying of old age prevents all forms of resurrection). If you didn't have a cleric or at least an elf, you were screwed. Even if you survived, you remained old until you found a cleric to undo it.

Lord help the person who got carelessly buffed with Haste while fighting ghosts.

[Metastachydium]

I didn't like how poisons were almost completely inconsequential in 3rd edition. Poisons had to be really over the top to even be worth using. Out of the dozens of poisons in the game, how many actually saw play?

Well, poison as a player option is quite lackluster. Poison as a monster ability, on the other hand… Well, it does, by neccessity, see use, since it's usually delivered by something the monster in question uses to attack anyhow and its scaling with HD and CON can make it worthwhile against the right opponents.

[Yora]

Poison is one of those effects that has more of an impact after a fight than during it. On hit, it's usually just a minor debuff. It takes one more minute to deal addititonal damage, which might even be the main damage. And then its effect can trouble the target for every fight for several days.

99% of the time, players will fight a monster only once and there won't be any longer lasting effects that will matter to the game.

The best use of poisons for players would be when hunting enemies that try to get away from them. Being poisoned will hamper their ability to stay ahead of their pursuers.