Paragon Template for only ECL 5

[Mr. Friendly]

So I was looking at the Paragon Template and it dawned on me that since the Paragon template doesn't change the creatures type, a normal animal could be a paragon and still be a normal animal (as far as type is concerned anyway)... 'so what?' right? What if you were to then mix that Paragon Template into the Lycanthrope Template? As far as I can tell, they interact more or less fine.

The only real hitch is that the description of Animal traits says:

—Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).

However, that can be mitigated by the line that is just before it:

An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

I am sure that RAI the paragon animal should not be an animal, RAW on the other hand....

So, onto the cheese!

Now, there are of course some obvious but muddy questions, such as whether or not the various Paragon abilities are applicable in animal form only, or if they work in all forms. Things like the Paragon +20 luck bonus to damage... it does say it applies to all attacks... SR, DR/Epic and so on...

I would say most of the abilities work in all forms, the exception being the SLAs which could only be used in Animal form, since the lycanthrope rules specify that special attacks stay compartmentalized to the forms. Special qualities however and the undefined special luck and insight bonuses are fair game.

Even if it were that all paragon powers are limited to animal form... what an animal form it is!

[vegetalss4]

if you want to break the geme this way. why stop there. be a were-whatever (i this spesific istance whatever means that i does not matter what animal) paragon xnigh infinitive

[Mr. Friendly]

if you want to break the geme this way. why stop there. be a were-whatever (i this spesific istance whatever means that i does not matter what animal) paragon xnigh infinitive

Because that applying the same template an infinite number of times thing is just stupid. It requires no imagination at all and is beyond stupid. I tend to view templates as being like everything else in D&D - the same one doesn't stack. (with the exception of the evolved undead template, which is meant to be applied multiple times)

[RTGoodman]

The biggest problem that I see right from the start is that the Paragon template (at least as far as I can find it in the SRD) doesn't have a listed LA. You could take that to mean that it's LA +0, but I'd be more inclined to say that it's LA -- (that is, it can't be used for PCs) - especially since it's an epic template, and epic implies ECL 21 or higher. I'm don't know much about 3.0 (never played it), but did it even have the LA system? If not, that's why there's not one.

As far as stacking with Lycanthrope, that seems like it'd be fine. It's still an Animal, so RAW it works. Of course, it's going to be a huge CR and huge LA (if you assume that Paragon should have a LA of anything other than --).

[Armads]

The biggest problem that I see right from the start is that the Paragon template (at least as far as I can find it in the SRD) doesn't have a listed LA. You could take that to mean that it's LA +0, but I'd be more inclined to say that it's LA -- (that is, it can't be used for PCs) - especially since it's an epic template, and epic implies ECL 21 or higher. I'm don't know much about 3.0 (never played it), but did it even have the LA system? If not, that's why there's not one.

As far as stacking with Lycanthrope, that seems like it'd be fine. It's still an Animal, so RAW it works. Of course, it's going to be a huge CR and huge LA (if you assume that Paragon should have a LA of anything other than --).

The Lycanthrope template has a fixed LA of +2. This trick works, and has been documented on the CharOp boards, but will most probably be banned by all DMs.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Unfortunately, you can't change shape (via polymorph, change shape, alternate form, wild shape etc) into a creature with a template.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...#alternateForm