Good alligned god for a Necromancer?

[Yakmala]

Was chatting with a friend about a game they are participating in where each character has to worship a good aligned god of their choice. But this particular player wants to play as a Necromancer.

Are there any good aligned gods of death that would be accepting of "benevolent necromancy"? This is in the Forgotten Realms setting and the deity in question can come from any edition of the FR lore.

[Seekergeek]

I’d start here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/w...note-OG-p165-8

Baelnorn were good-aligned elven liches whose transformation was sometimes a blessing from the seldarine.

[Psyren]

Would your player settle for Neutral? Necromancy and "Good" don't mix particularly well in the Realms.

[Unoriginal]

Was chatting with a friend about a game they are participating in where each character has to worship a good aligned god of their choice. But this particular player wants to play as a Necromancer.

Are there any good aligned gods of death that would be accepting of "benevolent necromancy"? This is in the Forgotten Realms setting and the deity in question can come from any edition of the FR lore.

Define "benevolent necromancy", please.


There is no problem with being a good-aligned Necromancer so long as you don't create permanent undead. I don't think any god would have a problem with someone casting Enervation or Eyebite.

[RogueJK]

First, there are no good-aligned gods of the dead in Forgotten Realms. The current god of death, Kelemvor, is Lawful Neutral and anti-undead. His associate and former god of the dead, Jergal, is also Lawful Neutral but at least is a bit more open to allowing certain undead for certain purposes.

So setting that aside, it's going to be tough to find an outright necromancy-friendly good-aligned deity in general in the Forgotten Realms.

The closest you could find would likely be Mystra, the Neutral Good Goddess of Magic. While not supportive of the full-blown "raise a horde of undead to wreak havok and take over the world" type of necromancy, she almost certainly wouldn't mind if her faithful utilized some necromantic magic for the right purposes.

But the gods directly associated with necromancy and undead in the Forgotten Realms, Velsharoon and Myrkul, are both Neutral Evil.

[Witty Username]

I believe this is Greyhawk, so ask the DM, but I would recommend looking up The Evening Glory. Chaotic Neutral but that doesn't mean much in 5e.
The short version is she is a goddess of immortality, undeath and eternal love. Necromancy is a tool in her faith to aid in preserving yourself, your loved ones and your relationships.

[Mastikator]

Segojan Earthcaller is the gnome god of earth and the dead. Sort of a burial god I guess. Neutral good.

Osiris. Worshipped in the eastern part of Faerun. God of death and the dead, judges the dead in the afterlife. Lawful good.

Sehanine Moonbow. Elven goddess of (amongst other things) death, dreams, the moon. Chaotic good.

-

There is plenty of benevolent necromancy to go around. Spare the Dying, Chill Touch (especially effective against undead), Gentle Repose, Speak with Dead, Life Transference.
Necromancy is often associated with the creation of the undead, but I think it's putting the cart before the horse. Evil people are drawn to necromancy as a means of creating undead minions, so necromancy is saturated with evil necromancers, but it doesn't make necromancy evil. Evil is how you use the school.

[JLandan]

I once played a good aligned Dread Necromancer follower of Osiris. He was of Egyptian origin, but Faerun has the same god from the same pantheon.

You can get all the info here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Osiris

His modus operandi was that as the Pharoah's executioner, he had the authority to call upon those he had punished to fight for justice in physical or spiritual form, and in return, lighten the burden of their souls. For this character, creating or summoning undead was not evil, but actually to the benefit of the dead.

[Psyren]

Despite their thematic ties to death, I don't think Segojan and Sehanine would actually go as far as to sponsor necromancers. You might be able to argue something with Osiris though.

[Unoriginal]

I once played a good aligned Dread Necromancer follower of Osiris. He was of Egyptian origin, but Faerun has the same god from the same pantheon.

You can get all the info here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Osiris

His modus operandi was that as the Pharoah's executioner, he had the authority to call upon those he had punished to fight for justice in physical or spiritual form, and in return, lighten the burden of their souls. For this character, creating or summoning undead was not evil, but actually to the benefit of the dead.

This wouldn't work with the default 5e lore, so if OP wants to use the idea they should check with their DM first.

[Irongron]

I most commonly see this with Jergalite paladins in the 'Order of the Pallid Mask', though as mentioned above Jergal is not good.

I think the really tricky part for good aligned undead users is how to justify creating, controlling otherwise utilizing what (canonically) are evil aligned creatures, or tortured souls. With god of destiny like Jergal it is easily possible to argue 'It was ever their fate to be so', while a more militant faith like Hoar lends itself to the 'This suffering is their punishment'.

Beyond the above examples I don't really see a way to play such in a campaign without a lot of awkward conversations each time the party shows up to aid a village in distress.

Possibly if the campaign was playing out in the planescape where such weirdness is commonplace...

[Zevox]

First, there are no good-aligned gods of the dead in Forgotten Realms. The current god of death, Kelemvor, is Lawful Neutral and anti-undead. His associate and former god of the dead, Jergal, is also Lawful Neutral but at least is a bit more open to allowing certain undead for certain purposes.

So setting that aside, it's going to be tough to find an outright necromancy-friendly good-aligned deity in general in the Forgotten Realms.

The closest you could find would likely be Mystra, the Neutral Good Goddess of Magic. While not supportive of the full-blown "raise a horde of undead to wreak havok and take over the world" type of necromancy, she almost certainly wouldn't mind if her faithful utilized some necromantic magic for the right purposes.

But the gods directly associated with necromancy and undead in the Forgotten Realms, Velsharoon and Myrkul, are both Neutral Evil.

This, basically. For a specifically good-aligned god that works for a Necromancer, Mystra is pretty much the pick from the Faerûnian pantheon. But even then you may run into trouble depending on the patrons of the other party members, as most other good-aligned deities tend to be strongly anti-undead, particularly Lathander and nature deities like Chauntea or Mielikki.

There's a few others who might be indifferent enough to the undead to be able to work depending on how you handle it, like Tymora, but that's going to be a bit of a stretch. Outside of the Faerûnian Pantheon, you could maybe find some that are a stretch like that, but there's still no obvious candidates. Osiris is a no-go: Faiths & Pantheons explicitly mentions him being friendly with Kelemvor because "they have similar ideas about death and the undead." And Kelemvor is strongly anti-undead.

[Unoriginal]

This, basically. For a specifically good-aligned god that works for a Necromancer, Mystra is pretty much the pick from the Faerûnian pantheon. But even then you may run into trouble depending on the patrons of the other party members, as most other good-aligned deities tend to be strongly anti-undead, particularly Lathander and nature deities like Chauntea or Mielikki.

There's a few others who might be indifferent enough to the undead to be able to work depending on how you handle it, like Tymora, but that's going to be a bit of a stretch. Outside of the Faerûnian Pantheon, you could maybe find some that are a stretch like that, but there's still no obvious candidates. Osiris is a no-go: Faiths & Pantheons explicitly mentions him being friendly with Kelemvor because "they have similar ideas about death and the undead." And Kelemvor is strongly anti-undead.

You don't have to create undead to be a Necromancer or use necromancy, though.

[RogueJK]

True. But the fact that 3/5 of the Necromancer's subclass abilities either directly involve or specifically reference Undead is a bit of a clue.

That's like saying that technically, you could be a Bladesinger who never uses Bladesong... After all, only 3/4 of your subclass abilities involve it.

[Psyren]

You don't have to create undead to be a Necromancer or use necromancy, though.

True. But the fact that 3/5 of the Necromancer's subclass abilities either directly involve or specifically reference Undead is a bit of a clue.

That's like saying that technically, you could be a Bladesinger who never uses Bladesong... After all, only 3/4 of your subclass abilities involve it.

OP should probably clarify what their player is looking to be/do when they say "necromancer."

[Zevox]

You don't have to create undead to be a Necromancer or use necromancy, though.

You don't have to, but the game gives you little reason to be a Necromancer who doesn't, so it's a pretty safe bet this player intends to. Besides which, if he doesn't, then there's no dilemma here - other necromantic spells wouldn't raise the same objections from various goodly gods that the ones that create the undead do. So it's kind of implicit in asking the question to begin with.

[Blatant Beast]

Mystra, The Lady of Mysteries, has been presented as Neutral Good, in some of her incarnations.

People, also can have objections or differing views on liturgical or practices of dogma compared to religious hierarchy.

A adherent to the tenets of Kelevmor, could decide, that fighting fire with fire, is needed, and acceptable deviation from dogma.

[Rukelnikov]

Mystra, The Lady of Mysteries, has been presented as Neutral Good, in some of her incarnations.

People, also can have objections or differing views on liturgical or practices of dogma compared to religious hierarchy.

A adherent to the tenets of Kelevmor, could decide, that fighting fire with fire, is needed, and acceptable deviation from dogma.

The adherent maybe, but what's relevant is what will Kelemvor think of that.

[Unoriginal]

Mystra, The Lady of Mysteries, has been presented as Neutral Good, in some of her incarnations.

People, also can have objections or differing views on liturgical or practices of dogma compared to religious hierarchy.

A adherent to the tenets of Kelevmor, could decide, that fighting fire with fire, is needed, and acceptable deviation from dogma.

And Kevelmor would tell them they're wrong and will be dealt with accordingly.

Arguing with a god can be done, but trying to make them do a 180 on the thing they oppose the most is hopeless. And in the Forgotten Realms, the gods have strong incentives to stop people from misrepresenting their faith.

[Blatant Beast]

5e Gods are not as involved in the day to day as in the past.
The DM is empowered to have Divine Intervention take place and inform the PC of the error of their ways…seems a cool character arc.

This, of course, is a matter between the player and the DM, and not really the purview of folks on the internet declaring they are ‘playing wrong’.

‘Official’ Lore is a springboard; lore changes to meet the needs of a particular game…a particular game is not obligated to change to meet the dictates of one’s so called ‘official’ lore.

If you as a DM decide, good ole Kel comes down and give the Necromancer an atomic wedgie, that is your call…but my game is not bound by such a decision.

[Witty Username]

A adherent to the tenets of Kelevmor, could decide, that fighting fire with fire, is needed, and acceptable deviation from dogma.

That is kinda what Jergal's remaining clergy is for. Where Jergal doesn't personally see undeath as a problem for the sacntity of dead because undeath is ultimately as temporary as life. So they will use undead for purpose.

--
Aiming at Necromancer as wizard subclass, so animating the dead is likely.
First thoughts,
Magic Deities,
Mystra, Azuth, Deneir and such. Most, especially Mystra is open to advancing the understanding of magic for its own sake.

Deneir is spicy because of the deity's focus on recording for preservation. Necromancy could be seen as a way of assisting that goal.

The big concerns are nature deities, since necromancy is seen as an unnatural source.

Sune may be an interesting call if you see Necromancy as an attempt to preserve the beauty of things (have embalming suppies and whatnot for that one).

[Psyren]

If you as a DM decide, good ole Kel comes down and give the Necromancer an atomic wedgie, that is your call…but my game is not bound by such a decision.

And no one says yours has to be - but the OP is asking about default FR lore. And default FR lore is that good gods and the form of necromancy their player (likely) wants to pursue are incompatible.

Again though - we won't know for sure unless the OP clarifies that they have in mind with that label.

That is kinda what Jergal's remaining clergy is for. Where Jergal doesn't personally see undeath as a problem for the sacntity of dead because undeath is ultimately as temporary as life. So they will use undead for purpose.

And that's a valid point of view too, but Jergal isn't Good. Which is why I opened by asking if there was dogmatic flexibility in the request.

[Zevox]

A adherent to the tenets of Kelevmor, could decide, that fighting fire with fire, is needed, and acceptable deviation from dogma.

A Necromancer could delude themselves into thinking they were a follower of Kelemvor while doing that, perhaps. Any interaction with his actual church would have the members of said church telling them they're very wrong, but if they can ignore that they can remain deluded. They'd be in for a nasty surprise when they get to the afterlife and get judged False, though.

A Cleric trying to do the same thing would result in them losing their powers awfully fast. Kelemvor's teachings on that matter are quite unambiguous, and no god in the Realms is going to keep granting power to someone who so clearly turns against them.

Also, kind of not relevant to the topic of the thread, since Kelemvor is not good, but Lawful Neutral.

[Unoriginal]

5e Gods are not as involved in the day to day as in the past.

They cannot come down in the flesh and declare X or Y anymore, sure, but they are involved still.

Also, spending how many years of your life spreading dogma about a god you claim to worship, when the god would disprove of it... well let's just say it isn't going to be a fun afterlife.

This, of course, is a matter between the player and the DM, and not really the purview of folks on the internet declaring they are ‘playing wrong’.

‘Official’ Lore is a springboard; lore changes to meet the needs of a particular game…a particular game is not obligated to change to meet the dictates of one’s so called ‘official’ lore.

Fair, but in that case the only answer to OP's inquiry is "ask your DM", and any other answer is irrelevant.

[Witty Username]

And that's a valid point of view too, but Jergal isn't Good. Which is why I opened by asking if there was dogmatic flexibility in the request.

I mean, neither is Kelevmor. It was a response to the specific point, not anything more than that.

Added more to my last post as I was thinking.

I stand by Mystra and Deneir as reasonable options.

[Psyren]

I think the prevailing viewpoint on Kelemvor is that he'd be a bad choice for this even independently of alignment concerns.

[Hail Tempus]

It's kind of a weird requirement, because people in Faerun, other than clerics of a given deity, don't typically worship just one god. They'll make offerings or prayers to a relevant god when they want something (good luck in gambling, calm seas on a journey etc.), but most people aren't strictly tied to one god in their devotion. And there's no requirement that a person's alignment match the alignment of the god whose aid they're seeking or who they're trying to mollify. Umberlee is evil, for example, but there's no issue with a good-aligned sea captain making an offering to her before a journey.

[Zevox]

It's kind of a weird requirement, because people in Faerun, other than clerics of a given deity, don't typically worship just one god. They'll make offerings or prayers to a relevant god when they want something (good luck in gambling, calm seas on a journey etc.), but most people aren't strictly tied to one god in their devotion. And there's no requirement that a person's alignment match the alignment of the god whose aid they're seeking or who they're trying to mollify. Umberlee is evil, for example, but there's no issue with a good-aligned sea captain making an offering to her before a journey.

While all of that is true, it's also true that the people of Faerûn typically select a single deity to be their patron. This doesn't equate to them worshiping solely that god - regardless of patron it'll still be common to offer prayers to other deities at appropriate times - but that god is the one whose teachings most resonate with them, and that they aim to follow. This is also what the setting's afterlife is structured around: when someone dies, it's their patron deity and how faithfully they followed their teachings that determines what happens to their soul. Either they were a sufficiently faithful follower and their soul can be claimed by their deity; they betrayed their patron's teachings enough to be judged False and are punished by Kelemvor; or they took no patron and are judged Faithless and plastered into the infamous Wall.

(Though the Wall is now of questionable canonicity since reference to it was removed in later printings of the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. But no clarification has ever been provided on if that means it was actually removed from the setting, or what would now be done with the Faithless if it has.)

[Hail Tempus]

While all of that is true, it's also true that the people of Faerûn typically select a single deity to be their patron. This doesn't equate to them worshiping solely that god - regardless of patron it'll still be common to offer prayers to other deities at appropriate times - but that god is the one whose teachings most resonate with them, and that they aim to follow. This is also what the setting's afterlife is structured around: when someone dies, it's their patron deity and how faithfully they followed their teachings that determines what happens to their soul. Either they were a sufficiently faithful follower and their soul can be claimed by their deity; they betrayed their patron's teachings enough to be judged False and are punished by Kelemvor; or they took no patron and are judged Faithless and plastered into the infamous Wall.

(Though the Wall is now of questionable canonicity since reference to it was removed in later printings of the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. But not clarification has ever been provided on if that means it was actually removed from the setting, or what would now be done with the Faithless if it has.)

Yeah, so I guess there's nothing really requiring someone to worship a god of the same alignment, so a necromancer (who is likely to at least be non-good, if not outright evil) could theoretically pick a good god as their patron. But it's really going to be a tough fit with most of them. The type of person who doesn't have any moral issues with defiling the bodies of the dead is not the type of person who is going to look up to Selune as their patron.

[Psyren]

Yeah, so I guess there's nothing really requiring someone to worship a god of the same alignment, so a necromancer (who is likely to at least be non-good, if not outright evil) could theoretically pick a good god as their patron. But it's really going to be a tough fit with most of them. The type of person who doesn't have any moral issues with defiling the bodies of the dead is not the type of person who is going to look up to Selune as their patron.

It'll probably be tough to follow their teachings while remaining more than one step away from their alignment or doing things they find deplorable though. Saying "Kelemvor is my patron!" and routinely animating undead is unlikely to work out well for that individual in the long-term.