The Drow War (Epic 3.5)

[paradox26]

okay let me get it straight, you said 2x the cost, so I am strictly dealing with Enhancement for this not specials like shock

+5 50,000 gp * normally this is where ENH ends and +6 normally is epic silliness x10 normally

+6 72,000 gp * x2 144,000
+7 98,000 gp *x2 196,000
+8 128,000 gp *x2 256,000
+9 162,000 gp *x2 324,000
+10 200,000 gp *x2 400,000
+11 242,000 gp *x2 484,000

and for anything further the dmg has Weapon bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared × 2,000 gp

Now let us deal with the Specials like Shock, are the specials figured just as normal meaning if I want that +10 ENH and Shock a bonus +1 I need to pay the +11 price

OR am I paying the +10 price and then only 2,000 for the +1 bonus special ?

Yes, that would be the case. And as for special abilities, you add the bonus to the enhancement bonus and then calculate the amount, you don't calculate them separately.

Spoiler

Show

Honest idea is to have a high CL to have buffs more resistant to dispelling and be able to enable the party.

Build stubb:

Wizard 5 (with abyssal specialist, aligned spellcaster (chaos), and spontaneous divination) / knight of the weave 1 / ultimate magus 10 / escalation mage 5

Using theurgic specialist feat to stack CL on specialist spells (i.e. chaos spells). The chaos spells CL would be 20 (wizard) + 28 (knight of the weave) + 3 (ultimate magus) -> 51

Not using the abyssal specialist + aligned spellcaster would mean that that high CL is only for one school of magic (a more specialized thing)

Scrapping the theurgic specialist entirely would also reduce the high CL to 23 which would be almost french vanilla.

What the build has over an out of the box wizard is a high CL and metamagic cost mitigation as the knight of the weave slots can be used to pay for metamagic and the escalation mage abilities imitate metamagic effects with a CL check (which the high CL makes easier to succeed at).

That would definitely be high OP. I will limit caster levels to character levels, so no 51 caster level.

My take on low OP is a straight druid with no metamagic, no divine metamagic (he's a wild reaper variant) and most of his feats spent on combat maneuvres. No stats have even reached 30. Also a pet bear rather than a venomfire boosted Fleskraker

That is more what I am thinking of, though I have allowed more than one class to be taken. As far as stats, I am thinking of main attribute to be up about 40 or 50 max, but less is better, if it comes down to it. I don't mind metamagic, but I am not a fan of DMM.

As I stated before, I'm bad at optimizing on my own, and have little ability to predict how OP something will be. As it is, going into Psychic Weapon Master is far from the most optimized thing a PsyWar can do, but at the same time I do have high crit damage, and get equally high temp HP every time I do so, and I will likely be getting crits on a consistent basis.

But I think high crit damage is preferable to the many, many ways a fully optimized Wizard has of simply ending a fight. I still have to, you know, engage with the mechanics of combat.



...Good thing I didn't take it, though it is on my list of wanted feats.

I'm not sure I'm actually allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find with a Google search. As I recall, it makes regaining psionic focus a move action instead of a full-round action, so it's very valuable to those who expend them. I myself technically have two foci to spend, so it's less urgent for me, but it'd still be pretty good.

I suspect it'd mostly be bonkers for those who want to move action: regain focus, standard action: cast power, and swift action: cast quickened power. Which I could technically do, but my powers are pretty much all buffs, and I only took Quickened Power so I'd be able to get more buffs up when I don't have prep time. None of my powers are capable of ending a fight, and they only quicken it by making me better at what I was already doing.

Psychic meditation and psionic meditation are apparently two different things, from what I could find online. Psionic meditation is what you meant, I think, and that feat is fine.

Working on buying equipment. Fortunately, this time it's easy - I ported over almost all my equipment from the last time I used this build (well, something similar) and... I still have 348,032 gold left. I hate buying items at high levels.

What else do I even spend it on? Do I just shell out the money for Tomes/Manuals so I don't have to worry about spending the gold anymore? Maybe I just do more research and find more things to buy...

Couple questions: One, I'd really like some Celestial Armor, but it's normally just a +3, I think. Can I spend additional gold to "upgrade" it to a +5 or higher? A +5 is, I believe, 38,400 gold, but I could probably add some special abilities to it, didn't think of that last time.

Second, you said that stacking magical effects is +50% of the lesser cost. Is that for all effects, or does that not apply to simple number increases like the MIC seems to recommend?

Yes, I have allowed people to refit items by reverse engineering them, so you can upgrade the Celestial Armour.
The +50% is for all effects, but there is no custom items from scratch.

So, I'm thinking about combining Focused Specialist ACF and the Changeling Wizard racial levels to make a character heavily specialized in Transmutation and Illusion spells. Would it be ok? Tentative build would be Changeling Wizard 5/Master Specialist 10/Recaster5/Archmage1

Obvioulsy powerful, since it's a wizard, but none of the usual cheesy things in my mind

That sounds fine.

intresting umm

Would you allow a Tibbit

Fabulous Cats

thinking of a Psion 11 / thrallherd 10 as my build

I prefer humanoid characters, so no tibbit, I am afraid.

Also, in answer to the question I was asked previously, there are no EPic Destinies.
Also, please not, I don't want leadership type effects. I want a party of heroes, not a parade full of servants.

[Zarthrax]

...I didn't post that.

[paradox26]

Sorry, Zarthrax. I edited a lengthy post and must have messed it up.

[Zarthrax]

Sorry, Zarthrax. I edited a lengthy post and must have messed it up.

No worries. As long as I get my question answered, anyway....lol

[Feathersnow]

So- this cap on caster level. That nerfs one of the features of Noctumancer. It isn't a major difference, because the other features are more relevant. But, in the unlikely event that I counterspell a spell and would otherwise have therefore been entitled to a temporary boost in CL and would simultaneously have a penalty to CL, such as, for example because I want to counterspell a spell with a Mystery, would the penalty be countered by the (nerfed) buff?

[samduke]

I don't mind metamagic, but I am not a fan of DMM.

well for what it is worth I have painfully avoided the feat all together

[namo]

DMM is really only a problem when paired with large number of Nightsticks (for cheap turn attempts).
If one is limited to 1 Nightstick, one can DMM Quicken about 3 spells per day, or make a couple of spells Persistent (the most powerful use), which is very strong but not quite broken. But of course it might still be above the target power level of this game.
(Btw, this has no impact on my PC who doesn't use divine spells, I'm just discussing here.)

well for what it is worth I have painfully avoided the feat all together

By the way, samduke, your sheet seems to reference a Metamagic Rod of Persistent Spell, but no such item exists (even if it did, it would probably eat up all your wealth...).

[samduke]

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Complete
Samduke	Ivory	Silverbrow Human	Cleric 6/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/ Divine Disciple 5/ Contemplative 6	Complete
DrK	Kurnos	Wood Elf	(wild reaper) Druid 21	~ 80% complete
Feathersnow	Elsien Peasebloosom	Gray Elf	Spellthief7/SC3->Noctumancer 11	Complete
Aegis013	Jorrik Worldshield	Dream Dwarf	Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Deepwarden 2/Crusader +9	Complete
Darius	Daruis	Star Elf	Bard 5 / Stormsinger 5/ Marshall 1/ Sublime Chord 10	Finishing Touches
Talivan	Enzio	Human	Rogue 13 / Warblade 3 / Invisible Blade 5	WIP
watupwithdat	Cardan Tirdis	Snow Elf	Warblade X/Champion of Corellon Larethian 2?/Eternal Blade 10	WIP
Dusk Raven	Calliopi Rayza	Human	Human Paragon 3/Psychic Warrior 8/Psychic Weapon Master 10	Needs Equipment, More Detailed Backstory
Archmage1	Coman	Human	Barbarian 11/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10	Missing Backstory
Da'Shain	Greath Shamea	Whisper Gnome	Factotum 19/Swordsage 2	95% (finish equipment/some description)
-	-	-	-	-

table update

[Darius Vibrtrar]

Spoiler: Backstory

Show

Darius was just a Bard, singing about the stars, love, and adventure. But that was before the drow made war on the surface again. They attacked the forest his parents had lived in for centuries, They brought fire, and burnt it to the ground. Darius would seek out those of power before joining the war, the Storm singers, those who could sing to the skys to bring down arcane power on thier foes. Once he could sing down lightning he would join the war effort, learning to share his charismatic voice with his allies around him. He would sing and sing until his throat was raw and his vocal chords wanted to rip and snap. He continues in the war effort against the drow, looking to take revenge for what was taken.

[Athaleon]

Still working on my character. More or less settled on the Dwarf Wizard-Runesmith, not 100% on the other classes in the mix. Should be a straightforward support/utility caster with a little melee capability. Will try to stick to thematic Dwarfy-Earthy spells as much as I can.

When is the deadline for character submission? If it was posted earlier in the thread I must have skimmed right over it.

[Dusk Raven]

Psychic meditation and psionic meditation are apparently two different things, from what I could find online. Psionic meditation is what you meant, I think, and that feat is fine.

Oh? Interesting. Well, I have no idea what the other feat does, then.

Meanwhile, working on the finishing touches for my sheet. Took another look at my powers, and a lot of my buffs actually have augments to let me cast them as a swift action, or they have generous durations, so I decided to swap out Quicken Power for Greater Combat Reflexes. I've got 15 AoOs, might as well have a way to use all of them.

Also still working on equipment. The most optimal thing to do is get a Manual to boost my Strength, getting it to 29 when combined with enhancements. I haven't because... well, my gal doesn't seem like she'd be that strong, but also because I'm not sure what the "baseline" for our applicant pool is. One of the things I don't like about high-level 3.5 is that numbers just seem all over the place. Closest I have to a baseline for a martial character is Coman, as his to-hit isn't too much higher than mine... at least when he's not raging.

I did discover the "Belt of Magnificence" which boosts all stats by 6. Now, do I really need a +6 to INT and CHA? No, but it was cheaper than what I did have. Less +50% from combining items, after all.

[boj0]

Actually, I think I'm going to end up passing, the forums have had so many problems lately that I dread trying to load pages or check threads.

[Feathersnow]

Meanwhile, working on the finishing touches for my sheet.
I did discover the "Belt of Magnificence" which boosts all stats by 6. Now, do I really need a +6 to INT and CHA? No, but it was cheaper than what I did have. Less +50% from combining items, after all.

Good catch. You saved me 20k and buffed my Str!

[kinem]

I’m updating a Spirit Shaman for this.

[samduke]

By the way, samduke, your sheet seems to reference a Metamagic Rod of Persistent Spell, but no such item exists (even if it did, it would probably eat up all your wealth...).

1st please stick to your character
2nd my numbers are exactly correct

[Dusk Raven]

Good catch. You saved me 20k and buffed my Str!

Pleased to help!

In the meantime, a question for paradox: the Human Paragon class advances spellcasting from any class. Given it's non-specific nature, I've been assuming that it would also advance psionic manifesting, but... I ought to ask about that. That will change my build if it doesn't.

Speaking of builds... it's a shame there aren't more PsyWar-based prestige classes. As it is, I don't have a lot of options if I want to advance my manifester level further.

[paradox26]

So- this cap on caster level. That nerfs one of the features of Noctumancer. It isn't a major difference, because the other features are more relevant. But, in the unlikely event that I counterspell a spell and would otherwise have therefore been entitled to a temporary boost in CL and would simultaneously have a penalty to CL, such as, for example because I want to counterspell a spell with a Mystery, would the penalty be countered by the (nerfed) buff?

I will say that the penalty would be countered.

Still working on my character. More or less settled on the Dwarf Wizard-Runesmith, not 100% on the other classes in the mix. Should be a straightforward support/utility caster with a little melee capability. Will try to stick to thematic Dwarfy-Earthy spells as much as I can.

When is the deadline for character submission? If it was posted earlier in the thread I must have skimmed right over it.

I haven't yet set a due date, because I am having so many problems with the forums lately. Just get it done when you can. I will be very lenient with regards to due dates.

Actually, I think I'm going to end up passing, the forums have had so many problems lately that I dread trying to load pages or check threads.

You aren't wrong at all, and I totally understand.

Pleased to help!

In the meantime, a question for paradox: the Human Paragon class advances spellcasting from any class. Given it's non-specific nature, I've been assuming that it would also advance psionic manifesting, but... I ought to ask about that. That will change my build if it doesn't.

Speaking of builds... it's a shame there aren't more PsyWar-based prestige classes. As it is, I don't have a lot of options if I want to advance my manifester level further.

I will allow it to boost psionic manifestation.


Zarthrax, did I overlook a question of yours? If so, can I please get you to ask it again, so I don't miss it? Thanks, mate.

[watupwithdat]

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Complete
Samduke	Ivory	Silverbrow Human	Cleric 6/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/ Divine Disciple 5/ Contemplative 6	Complete
DrK	Kurnos	Wood Elf	(wild reaper) Druid 21	~ 80% complete
Feathersnow	Elsien Peasebloosom	Gray Elf	Spellthief7/SC3->Noctumancer 11	Complete
Aegis013	Jorrik Worldshield	Dream Dwarf	Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Deepwarden 2/Crusader +9	Complete
Darius	Daruis	Star Elf	Bard 5 / Stormsinger 5/ Marshall 1/ Sublime Chord 10	Finishing Touches
Talivan	Enzio	Human	Rogue 13 / Warblade 3 / Invisible Blade 5	WIP
watupwithdat	Cardan Tirdis	Snow Elf	Warblade 7/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon Larethian 2/Eternal Blade 10	70%
Dusk Raven	Calliopi Rayza	Human	Human Paragon 3/Psychic Warrior 8/Psychic Weapon Master 10	Needs Equipment, More Detailed Backstory
Archmage1	Coman	Human	Barbarian 11/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10	Missing Backstory
Da'Shain	Greath Shamea	Whisper Gnome	Factotum 19/Swordsage 2	95% (finish equipment/some description)
-	-	-	-	-

Less +50% from combining items, after all.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you don't increase the lesser cost when adding stat items like belt of strength etc per MIC rules. So +6 strength is just +36000.

[Aegis013]

I did discover the "Belt of Magnificence" which boosts all stats by 6. Now, do I really need a +6 to INT and CHA? No, but it was cheaper than what I did have. Less +50% from combining items, after all.

According to the rules on MiC pg 233-234 adding common effects to magic items of the appropriate slot type doesn't carry the 50% gp cost adjustment. (e.g. +2/4/6 enhancement to attribute, +1-5 resistance to saves, etc). So the Belt of Magnificence +6 which costs 200k costs more than just 4 items of +6 enhancement bonus which can added to other items for just 144k.

If you're merging items that aren't just common effects, like a Bracer of Archery with a Strongarm Bracer, the 50% increased cost adjustment would apply.

If I'm incorrect, I'm sure paradox26 will let us know.

Edit: Swordsage'd by watupwithdat.

[Dusk Raven]

I actually asked about that earlier and paradox said all items get the +50% cost, as I recall.

[Zarthrax]

That's fine. Second question, then. There are numerous ways to have spells count as the opposite source (arcane as divine, divine as arcane), especially from Dragon Magazine. Are those ways allowed for counting as casting the opposite source for PrC requirements?

@paradox26- reposted.

[niw18]

That's ok I can think of something else

[samduke]

According to the rules on MiC pg 233-234 adding common effects to magic items of the appropriate slot type doesn't carry the 50% gp cost adjustment. (e.g. +2/4/6 enhancement to attribute, +1-5 resistance to saves, etc). So the Belt of Magnificence +6 which costs 200k costs more than just 4 items of +6 enhancement bonus which can added to other items for just 144k.

If you're merging items that aren't just common effects, like a Bracer of Archery with a Strongarm Bracer, the 50% increased cost adjustment would apply.

If I'm incorrect, I'm sure paradox26 will let us know.

Edit: Swordsage'd by watupwithdat.

I actually asked about that earlier and paradox said all items get the +50% cost, as I recall.

As per Paradox26

if you have a magic item in a slot then all OTHER items in that slot of the same value or less cost 50% more

so if we have a bracers of armor +8, 64K + strongarm bracers 6K the strong arm actually cost 9K but the AC are still only 64K

[Archmage1]

And that's Coman completed! If I've made any mistakes around his items or his feats, please, let me know.

He is an old school barbarian hero, from a time long since gone, with an epic reputation and very little else to show for it.

[QUOTE=watupwithdat;25961556]

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Complete
Samduke	Ivory	Silverbrow Human	Cleric 6/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/ Divine Disciple 5/ Contemplative 6	Complete
DrK	Kurnos	Wood Elf	(wild reaper) Druid 21	~ 80% complete
Feathersnow	Elsien Peasebloosom	Gray Elf	Spellthief7/SC3->Noctumancer 11	Complete
Aegis013	Jorrik Worldshield	Dream Dwarf	Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Deepwarden 2/Crusader +9	Complete
Darius	Daruis	Star Elf	Bard 5 / Stormsinger 5/ Marshall 1/ Sublime Chord 10	Finishing Touches
Talivan	Enzio	Human	Rogue 13 / Warblade 3 / Invisible Blade 5	WIP
watupwithdat	Cardan Tirdis	Snow Elf	Warblade 7/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon Larethian 2/Eternal Blade 10	70%
Dusk Raven	Calliopi Rayza	Human	Human Paragon 3/Psychic Warrior 8/Psychic Weapon Master 10	Needs Equipment, More Detailed Backstory
Archmage1	Coman	Human	Barbarian 10/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Warblade 1	Complete
Da'Shain	Greath Shamea	Whisper Gnome	Factotum 19/Swordsage 2	95% (finish equipment/some description)
-	-	-	-	-

[Talivan]

Fixing my sheet link

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Complete
Samduke	Ivory	Silverbrow Human	Cleric 6/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/ Divine Disciple 5/ Contemplative 6	Complete
DrK	Kurnos	Wood Elf	(wild reaper) Druid 21	~ 80% complete
Feathersnow	Elsien Peasebloosom	Gray Elf	Spellthief7/SC3->Noctumancer 11	Complete
Aegis013	Jorrik Worldshield	Dream Dwarf	Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Deepwarden 2/Crusader +9	Complete
Darius	Daruis	Star Elf	Bard 5 / Stormsinger 5/ Marshall 1/ Sublime Chord 10	Finishing Touches
Talivan	Enzio	Human	Rogue 13 / Warblade 3 / Invisible Blade 5	WIP
watupwithdat	Cardan Tirdis	Snow Elf	Warblade 7/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon Larethian 2/Eternal Blade 10	70%
Dusk Raven	Calliopi Rayza	Human	Human Paragon 3/Psychic Warrior 8/Psychic Weapon Master 10	Needs Equipment, More Detailed Backstory
Archmage1	Coman	Human	Barbarian 10/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Warblade 1	Complete
Da'Shain	Greath Shamea	Whisper Gnome	Factotum 19/Swordsage 2	95% (finish equipment/some description)
-	-	-	-	-

[Dusk Raven]

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Complete
Samduke	Ivory	Silverbrow Human	Cleric 6/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/ Divine Disciple 5/ Contemplative 6	Complete
DrK	Kurnos	Wood Elf	(wild reaper) Druid 21	~ 80% complete
Feathersnow	Elsien Peasebloosom	Gray Elf	Spellthief7/SC3->Noctumancer 11	Complete
Aegis013	Jorrik Worldshield	Dream Dwarf	Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Deepwarden 2/Crusader +9	Complete
Darius	Daruis	Star Elf	Bard 5 / Stormsinger 5/ Marshall 1/ Sublime Chord 10	Finishing Touches
Talivan	Enzio	Human	Rogue 13 / Warblade 3 / Invisible Blade 5	WIP
watupwithdat	Cardan Tirdis	Snow Elf	Warblade 7/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon Larethian 2/Eternal Blade 10	70%
Dusk Raven	Calliopi Rayza	Human	Human Paragon 3/Psychic Warrior 8/Psychic Weapon Master 10	Mechanically Complete
Archmage1	Coman	Human	Barbarian 10/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10/Warblade 1	Complete
Da'Shain	Greath Shamea	Whisper Gnome	Factotum 19/Swordsage 2	95% (finish equipment/some description)
-	-	-	-	-

Not really an update, but I have picked out my magical equipment. There's still a few mundane stuff I'd like to buy, but it's mostly just the accoutrements a noble ought to have, nothing that will have much mechanical bearing. Although I may trade out the Ring of Evasion - while I have a decent Reflex save, I also have a power that lets me say, "I'll just be taking the minimum possible damage from that spell, thanks." Ring of Evasion means I don't have to use it as much, of course, but pure damage isn't something I'm really concerned about. It just remains to be seen whether I spend the rest of my money on something like an Amulet of Natural Armor, or just bank it (having someone with a decent gold reserve might be nice, and it might as well be the former noble). Either way, though, if paradox were to say in five minutes, "All right, enough work on your sheets, characters are about to be picked," I'd be able to say, "I'm ready."

[Aegis013]

Dusk Raven & samduke, looks like y'all are right. It appears I had missed this.

Second, you said that stacking magical effects is +50% of the lesser cost. Is that for all effects, or does that not apply to simple number increases like the MIC seems to recommend?

...
The +50% is for all effects, but there is no custom items from scratch.

Paradox26, will you confirm the common effects (MiC pg 233-234) are subject to the 50% cost increase for this game?

I don't mind if that's the case, I would simply appreciate clarification before I re-calculate Jorrik's WBL expenditure and retool his numbers given how involved an epic inventory can be.

[samduke]

Dusk Raven & samduke, looks like y'all are right. It appears I had missed this.



Paradox26, will you confirm the common effects (MiC pg 233-234) are subject to the 50% cost increase for this game?

I don't mind if that's the case, I would simply appreciate clarification before I re-calculate Jorrik's WBL expenditure and retool his numbers given how involved an epic inventory can be.

Think his wording was weird.

No matter the item in any slot the most expensive is at cost, all others even if the same price in thst same slot are 50% more expensive

Armor, shiels weapons are also slots and tend to be very expensive

What is or are the effects your asking about, that would help


Edited

[watupwithdat]

Think his wording was weird.

No matter the item in any slot the most expensive is at cost, all others even if the same price in thst same slot are 50% more expensive

Armor, shiels weapons are also slots and tend to be very expensive

What is or are the effects your asking about, that would help


Edited

It's referencing "Adding Common Item Effects to Existing Items" from page 233 of MIC, which states that you don't pay the +50% tax when adding common item effects (like stats, ac and saves) to existing items.

That rule has been normalized for a long time, so the confusion stems from it sounding like this game isn't following that standardized rule. As the presumption is that you only do the +50% lesser item tax when adding magic items to another (common item effects not included) it probably means that plenty of players would need to redo their equipment to account for the added cost of adding for example +6 Charisma to their Cloak of Resistance +5 (which would normally be 36000 + 25000; but 36000 + 25000 + 12500 without the MIC rule).

[niw18]

I decide to make an elan

psion 11/ FLAYERSPAWN PSYCHIC prc 10