Biggest surprise when you read the book...

[Gnoman]

There's two big issues with most reproductions of the Vesper you see today. One is that virtually all use 80 proof vodka and gin because that's the default - Fleming's version would have been 100 proof. The other, more important, issue is that Kina Lillit hasn't been made since 1986, and the Lillit Blanc usually used as a substitute has a dramatically different flavor profile. Experiments trying to factor that in have produced tolerable results by some reports.

That said, the primary reason the Vesper in that form (as opposed to a simple Vodka Martini) never appears again is the Fleming copied thenrecipe from a friend and hadn't tried it before including it in the novel. When he did, he disliked it immensely.

[Saph]

There's two big issues with most reproductions of the Vesper you see today. One is that virtually all use 80 proof vodka and gin because that's the default - Fleming's version would have been 100 proof. The other, more important, issue is that Kina Lillit hasn't been made since 1986, and the Lillit Blanc usually used as a substitute has a dramatically different flavor profile. Experiments trying to factor that in have produced tolerable results by some reports.

That said, the primary reason the Vesper in that form (as opposed to a simple Vodka Martini) never appears again is the Fleming copied thenrecipe from a friend and hadn't tried it before including it in the novel. When he did, he disliked it immensely.

I always thought that it kind of works with the storyline. When Bond gives the drink that name he has a massive crush on Vesper and so is doing stuff like naming things after her. After he gets burned, he never says her name ever again.

[Bohandas]

The novel 2001: A Space Odyssey actually has a coherent and well written ending; not just 20 minutes of kaleidoscopes like the movie had

[runeghost]

Yeah, I read that book 3 years ago, and it was quite a shock. I like to read late 19th century adventure books (Conan Doyle, Burrough), but Dracula is surprisingly modern, both in its writing and in its characters. Especially Mina. I mean, while the boys are running around in circle with stakes, guns and holy wafers, she quietly shatters Dracula's entire conspiray with a typewriter ^^

I was soooo mad when Van Helsing decided (repeatedly) to protect endanger her and put her out of the loop. Because "a woman shouldn't worry her pretty head with such worrying matters"

I mean, what the hell, old fool? She was your best vampire hunter, the backbone of the entire team, she lost her best friend to Dracula, and she was already on the vampire's grocery list. How in hell would keeping her in the dark protect her from the monster? Were you afraid whe might upstage you? (because, let's be honest, she totally did)

And yes, Renfield was a surprise too, in his "horribly creepy, but actually tries to protect people" way.
Or Dracula itself. I thought the "tragic romantic figure" stuff cam from the book, but no. Bram Stoker's Dracula is a complete, brutal monster, through and through. It was actually refreshing to see the original vampire go against that cliché.

Dracula is one of the few stories where I did read the book only after seeing the film... and the one part that just leaps out at me is:How on earth did our brave heroes ever think they killed Dracula?

The novel shows us, and Van Helsing tells us within the novel about Dracula's powers and vulnerabilities. (I went ahead and grabbed the ebook copy to check a few parts of my recollection).

Having established that in order to be slain, a vampire must be decapitated, preferably after having been a wooden stake driven through its heart. And that Dracula can turn to mist or dust, but only at sunset, sunrise, or when in his home, or his earth-filled coffin, here is the original defeat of Dracula:

The defeat of Dracula

The sun was almost down on the mountain tops, and the shadows of the whole group fell upon the snow. I saw the Count lying within the box upon the earth, some of which the rude falling from the cart had scattered over him. He was deathly pale, just like a waxen image, and the red eyes glared with the horrible vindictive look which I knew so well.

As I looked, the eyes saw the sinking sun, and the look of hate in them turned to triumph.

But, on the instant, came the sweep and flash of Jonathan’s great knife. I shrieked as I saw it shear through the throat. Whilst at the same moment Mr. Morris’s bowie knife plunged into the heart.

It was like a miracle, but before our very eyes, and almost in the drawing of a breath, the whole body crumbled into dust and passed from our sight.

I shall be glad as long as I live that even in that moment of final dissolution, there was in the face a look of peace, such as I never could have imagined might have rested there.

The Castle of Dracula now stood out against the red sky, and every stone of its broken battlements was articulated against the light of the setting sun.

Yeah. They "kill" Dracula by cutting his throat and stabbing him with Bowie knife, at sunset, while in his coffin full of earth, on his own home turf. And they're convinced they killed him because he looks like he thinks he won, and then he turns into dust, which is something they know he can do. Now, he definitely leaves the Harkers and the rest alone from that point on, but I think the novel as written makes a strong case that he was just done with the whole "Go to England and F-around" project. Maybe if they brought Mina along for the final confrontation she could have pointed out their mistake and Dracula could have been tracked down and slain for real.

[Peelee]

I'm flat-out amazed anybody saw anything of worth at all in The Boys comic. I hate the text as much as I love the show.

[Rynjin]

I'm not sure how many people know Howl's Moving Castle was based on a novel, but it was. It also had sequels, and the movie basically just covers some of the events of the first book. The two are actually so different from each other I didn't really connect them to each other at first; my school library had the first novel and I don't think I ever read the rest.

A lot of what Howl does offscreen in the movie (participating in the War) is included in (IMO pretty boring) detail in the novel, which is probably the biggest structural change. Howl is much more of a character than a plot device in the novel(s) and Sophie is IMO more...likable? In part because she's not just so damn nice all the time, she feels more like an actual person who has her own wants and desires.

It put me in a weird situation once I was reminded of this and re-read the first novel because while I still love the movie, it's significantly less...nuanced in a lot of ways than the novel. It has very big "feels" but removes a lot of the things that make each character themselves, and most of the plot as well.

I don't think Sophie's sisters even show up in the movie, or if they do they play a significantly downplayed role because I don't really remember them.

[Metastachydium]

Yeah. They "kill" Dracula by cutting his throat and stabbing him with Bowie knife, at sunset, while in his coffin full of earth, on his own home turf. And they're convinced they killed him because he looks like he thinks he won,

No, that's before they slice and dice him. What sells it is the look of uncharacteristic inner peace after.

and then he turns into dust, which is something they know he can do.

Yes, he can technically do that, but they also know for a fact that vampires old enough will crumble to dust when properly disposed of. It is part of the original plans for the Varna encounter and it happens to the three female ones when they are inert and cannot possibly do it to escape.

Maybe if they brought Mina along for the final confrontation she could have pointed out their mistake and Dracula could have been tracked down and slain for real.

They did bring her along. She's narrating the sequence you quoted. She was watching from farther away with Van Helsing. She's also the reason why they know Dracula was killed and needs no further tracking down. She was on the verge of transformation the night before, and her condition is immediately reversed when Dracula is dealt with.

[LaZodiac]

I'm flat-out amazed anybody saw anything of worth at all in The Boys comic. I hate the text as much as I love the show.

I've found this to be consistently true of basically all of his work. Wow that's a really ****ty bit of source material for an otherwise kind of alright to good adaptation.

[Cikomyr2]

Wait, it was a GIANT SQUID that destroyed New York? And only New York was destroyed?

Pfffft i thought the movie ending made more sense, at least for that.

[Eldan]

I've found this to be consistently true of basically all of his work. Wow that's a really ****ty bit of source material for an otherwise kind of alright to good adaptation.

I thought his run on Hellblazer was alright.

[LaZodiac]

Wait, it was a GIANT SQUID that destroyed New York? And only New York was destroyed?

Pfffft i thought the movie ending made more sense, at least for that.

There was a period of time where people thought the squid (meant to be read as a big alien from space by the people in universe) was a better ending overall.

Which honestly I kinda flip-flop on. The point of Veidt's entire goal is to create an outside force to unite humanity together- alien from beyond the stars or Dr Manhatten gone rogue, ultimately this is a plan that has a clear shelf life and wouldn't even work in the first place.

[Cikomyr2]

There was a period of time where people thought the squid (meant to be read as a big alien from space by the people in universe) was a better ending overall.

Which honestly I kinda flip-flop on. The point of Veidt's entire goal is to create an outside force to unite humanity together- alien from beyond the stars or Dr Manhatten gone rogue, ultimately this is a plan that has a clear shelf life and wouldn't even work in the first place.

Its just that the alien/squid was so much 'out of left field', with no stated agenda, no forewarning. It just.. plopped into new york, and people are expected to drop everything and try to defend against this invasion which isn't even determined to be a hostile act. Like, maybe it was an alien traveller who accidentally crossed dimension and crash-landed in New york.

There is no indication of any intelligence that justify believing it's an active enemy.

Dr Manhattan blowing up cities at least has the world believing the Big Blue Guy is tired of our **** and went rogue. Especially with the recent patterns of irrational, emotional behaviors that were shown. I can see everyone in the world swallowing the idea that the Superman went rogue.

[Bohandas]

I mean, what should have happened - regardless of whether a fake alien or fake rogue manhattan was used - is for it to turn out that Dr.Manhattan already defused all the world's nukes, which seems to me to be something in his power to do

[GloatingSwine]

I mean, what should have happened - regardless of whether a fake alien or fake rogue manhattan was used - is for it to turn out that Dr.Manhattan already defused all the world's nukes, which seems to me to be something in his power to do

Why would he do that?

Dr. Manhattan is completely disconnected from the fate of humanity, that's how Adrian manages to drive him off, if the nukes launched and everyone died well that's just some entropy happening.

And that would be what happened in response to the movie's ending, because there's a global nuclear crisis ongoing that has the president arriving at NORAD fully ready to order a launch.

If the soviets thought Dr. Manhattan was attacking they would launch everything immediately, as in within minutes of the first attack, because that's how nuclear MAD response works. Everything goes out as soon as the first instant sunrise happens, there's no time for anyone to say "wasn't us".

[Metastachydium]

Its just that the alien/squid was so much 'out of left field', with no stated agenda, no forewarning. It just.. plopped into new york, and people are expected to drop everything and try to defend against this invasion which isn't even determined to be a hostile act. Like, maybe it was an alien traveller who accidentally crossed dimension and crash-landed in New york.

There is no indication of any intelligence that justify believing it's an active enemy.

I'm pretty sure the horrifying mental assault it gave people that could be felt from miles away helped convince everyone it's fluffy and harmless. Also, people having no idea where it came from, how it did it and how likely it is that it can happen again is a plus. Nukes are scary, but they are known quantities. Governments know what they do, roughly how many of them are out there and what is the most likely outcome of their use.

I mean, what should have happened - regardless of whether a fake alien or fake rogue manhattan was used - is for it to turn out that Dr.Manhattan already defused all the world's nukes, which seems to me to be something in his power to do

Why would he do that?

Dr. Manhattan is completely disconnected from the fate of humanity, that's how Adrian manages to drive him off,

…and his non-reaction to Blake killing the pregnant woman is there for the exact purpose of making that much eminently clear. He also explcitly doesn't have a free will or practices it in a manner radically different from other sapients. From his perspective, he is either supposed to choose defusing all nukes or he isn't.

Dr Manhattan blowing up cities at least has the world believing the Big Blue Guy is tired of our **** and went rogue. Especially with the recent patterns of irrational, emotional behaviors that were shown. I can see everyone in the world swallowing the idea that the Superman went rogue.

if the nukes launched and everyone died well that's just some entropy happening.

And that would be what happened in response to the movie's ending, because there's a global nuclear crisis ongoing that has the president arriving at NORAD fully ready to order a launch.

If the soviets thought Dr. Manhattan was attacking they would launch everything immediately, as in within minutes of the first attack, because that's how nuclear MAD response works. Everything goes out as soon as the first instant sunrise happens, there's no time for anyone to say "wasn't us".

Precisely.

Further, Veidt attacking a major American population center indiscriminately is important because of Rorschach. That he has been an apologist of the Hiroshima Bombing since his teenage years, and how Veidt's plan is basically that, except perpetrated against the US which clashes with his patriotic fervour is a key element of what leads to his emotional meltdown.

[Batcathat]

In regards to the ending of Watchmen, I think the comic ending makes more sense in-universe (as has already been noted, an alien attack is probably more likely to unite everyone than an attack by an American superhuman) while the movie ending makes more narrative sense, since the comic ending – despite some foreshadowing – comes very unexpected and goes against some assumptions in the story (like Dr Manhattan being the only one with actual super powers. Which I don't know is ever actually stated, but it's definitely the impression I got as a reader).

[Cikomyr2]

In regards to the ending of Watchmen, I think the comic ending makes more sense in-universe (as has already been noted, an alien attack is probably more likely to unite everyone than an attack by an American superhuman) while the movie ending makes more narrative sense, since the comic ending – despite some foreshadowing – comes very unexpected and goes against some assumptions in the story (like Dr Manhattan being the only one with actual super powers. Which I don't know is ever actually stated, but it's definitely the impression I got as a reader).

You are right. Dr Manhattan is the sole individual with superpowers.

The idea someone would have the ability to teleport something above new york, have it send a psychic scream, is basically the realm of fantasy science, which wasnt established.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm flat-out amazed anybody saw anything of worth at all in The Boys comic. I hate the text as much as I love the show.

This is a pretty solid example. While even the show from time to time indulges in edginess for the sake of edginess, the comic has almost nothing else. To the point that I find it nigh unreadable, and am shocked anyone decided to adapt it, let alone successfully.

I mean, what should have happened - regardless of whether a fake alien or fake rogue manhattan was used - is for it to turn out that Dr.Manhattan already defused all the world's nukes, which seems to me to be something in his power to do

That's a hard no. Both graphic novel and movie make it clear that Manhattan cannot stop all the nukes. Presumably he *can* stop some, but if he begin disabling them, that'd be an attack, the rest launch, and that's that.

I do agree that the "victory via a ruse" is never going to work out in the long term, but the story supports that interpretation enough that I'm not bothered by it, and don't consider it a plot hole.

You are right. Dr Manhattan is the sole individual with superpowers.

The idea someone would have the ability to teleport something above new york, have it send a psychic scream, is basically the realm of fantasy science, which wasnt established.

It isn't established in the movie. It is established slightly in the comics. They talk about the island where the work is being done, the sort of people being brought there, etc. It's still wild, granted, but not wholly unexplained.

[Cikomyr2]

It isn't established in the movie. It is established slightly in the comics. They talk about the island where the work is being done, the sort of people being brought there, etc. It's still wild, granted, but not wholly unexplained.

Nananana i dont accept that. I accept the notion that there were scientists hidden somewhere doing something. But these scientists came up with magical science results (like TELEPORTATION) that we just plain never seen in the story prior.

This isnt like some scientists in an island managed to come up with a Fusion Reactor today (hard to accept but believable), but if some scientists in an island managed to design an organic plane that can mentally interface with its pilot. They had a few science breakthrough that came completely out of left field.

[GloatingSwine]

Nananana i dont accept that. I accept the notion that there were scientists hidden somewhere doing something. But these scientists came up with magical science results (like TELEPORTATION) that we just plain never seen in the story prior.

This isnt like some scientists in an island managed to come up with a Fusion Reactor today (hard to accept but believable), but if some scientists in an island managed to design an organic plane that can mentally interface with its pilot. They had a few science breakthrough that came completely out of left field.

But we know that there were scientists doing science magic in the universe of Watchmen, because that's how Dr. Manhattan was created. Jon Osterman got accidentally disintegrated by removal of his "intrinsic field".

[Rodin]

But we know that there were scientists doing science magic in the universe of Watchmen, because that's how Dr. Manhattan was created. Jon Osterman got accidentally disintegrated by removal of his "intrinsic field".

And despite the Cold War setting, Watchmen is explicitly sci-fi due to the existence of Dr. Manhattan. The most clear example of this is car technology, which had advanced by at least 40 years and were all electric (and introduced in 1962!). It's implied that there's quite a bit of tech about due to Doc giving a big push through his research, including genetic engineering which is established by the existence of Bubastis, a genetically engineered lynx created at least 10 years prior to the creation of the squid monster.

Dr. Manhattan can teleport. He is telepathic. Genetic engineering exists. Why is it so hard to believe that the Watchmen version of Reed Richards (Adrian Viedt, the "world's smartest man") would be able to use his vast wealth and intellect along with a much higher tech base over the course of 20 years to at least partially replicate these feats?

[Bohandas]

That's a hard no. Both graphic novel and movie make it clear that Manhattan cannot stop all the nukes. Presumably he *can* stop some, but if he begin disabling them, that'd be an attack, the rest launch, and that's that.

The way I remember the movie, which I admittedly haven't seen in well over a decade, was that this was in the context of trying to stop an attack in progress. Sabotage didn't seem to have been considered.

[Khedrac]

I'm not sure how many people know Howl's Moving Castle was based on a novel, but it was. It also had sequels, and the movie basically just covers some of the events of the first book. The two are actually so different from each other I didn't really connect them to each other at first; my school library had the first novel and I don't think I ever read the rest.

That would be why I don't particularly like the film - I knew the novel first.

A lot of what Howl does offscreen in the movie (participating in the War) is included in (IMO pretty boring) detail in the novel, which is probably the biggest structural change. Howl is much more of a character than a plot device in the novel(s) and Sophie is IMO more...likable? In part because she's not just so damn nice all the time, she feels more like an actual person who has her own wants and desires.

It put me in a weird situation once I was reminded of this and re-read the first novel because while I still love the movie, it's significantly less...nuanced in a lot of ways than the novel. It has very big "feels" but removes a lot of the things that make each character themselves, and most of the plot as well.

I don't think Sophie's sisters even show up in the movie, or if they do they play a significantly downplayed role because I don't really remember them.

I recommend reading the rest of the Diana Wynne Jones novels set in the same world, they are all very different, and while Castle in the Air probably does deserve to be thought of as a sequel, Howl and Sophie are not the main protagonist in it and they are more minor characters in The House of Many Ways.

With the exception of the Chrestomanci (Charmed Life etc.) series DWJ rarely did conventional sequels, something that could be frustrating as a fan, but probably helped strengthen her work.

[Wookieetank]

The way I remember the movie, which I admittedly haven't seen in well over a decade, was that this was in the context of trying to stop an attack in progress. Sabotage didn't seem to have been considered.

Dr. Manhattan also being able to replicate himself would also help in the Sabotage side of things. If all the nukes are disabled at once, who's going to have any to launch?

[Cikomyr2]

Dr. Manhattan also being able to replicate himself would also help in the Sabotage side of things. If all the nukes are disabled at once, who's going to have any to launch?

He isnt able to "replicate" himself; he merely can incarnate multiple avatars of himself. But its sort of implied he is.. dividing his attention while doing so.

Also, we know Jon is not omniscient. He doesnt know everything, he just learns things in a nonlinear fashion. So Jon wouldn't know the locations of all the nukes.

Also, the Soviets built a much larger arsenal of nukes explicitly to prevent Dr Manhattan from disabling them easily.

Finally, Jon cannot disarm the nukes because he knows he wont disarm the nukes. I know it sounds like tautology, but its the logic framework Jon operates under.

[Tyndmyr]

Nananana i dont accept that. I accept the notion that there were scientists hidden somewhere doing something. But these scientists came up with magical science results (like TELEPORTATION) that we just plain never seen in the story prior.

This isnt like some scientists in an island managed to come up with a Fusion Reactor today (hard to accept but believable), but if some scientists in an island managed to design an organic plane that can mentally interface with its pilot. They had a few science breakthrough that came completely out of left field.

Manhattan most definitely teleports both people and things all the time.

This is therefore obviously a universe where teleportation is possible. You are not previously explained that Veidt specifically can replicate this with technology, but an obviously extremely rich genius replicating powers with tech isn't that weird for comics.

[Rynjin]

Manhattan most definitely teleports both people and things all the time.

This is therefore obviously a universe where teleportation is possible. You are not previously explained that Veidt specifically can replicate this with technology, but an obviously extremely rich genius replicating powers with tech isn't that weird for comics.

But it is weird for a comic whose primary conceit is "this one freak accident created a single unique godlike being, and mere mortals are pulled in his wake and exist only at his whim".

Other people having superpowers kind of undercuts everything else in the series.

One of said mortals using tools that all mortals have access to to outwit said godlike being is significantly better storytelling than one of said mortals pulling superpowers straight out of his ass at the end.

[Rodin]

That would be why I don't particularly like the film - I knew the novel first.

I recommend reading the rest of the Diana Wynne Jones novels set in the same world, they are all very different, and while Castle in the Air probably does deserve to be thought of as a sequel, Howl and Sophie are not the main protagonist in it and they are more minor characters in The House of Many Ways.

With the exception of the Chrestomanci (Charmed Life etc.) series DWJ rarely did conventional sequels, something that could be frustrating as a fan, but probably helped strengthen her work.

My favorite DWJ book is Time City, a really fun YA book set in a city at the end of time which basically acts like the Time Variance Authority from Loki.

Manhattan most definitely teleports both people and things all the time.

This is therefore obviously a universe where teleportation is possible. You are not previously explained that Veidt specifically can replicate this with technology, but an obviously extremely rich genius replicating powers with tech isn't that weird for comics.

Veidt does specify in his villain monologue that he failed to come up with a functional teleporter, but the defective one is fine for purpose if you actually want the teleportation subject to telefrag what it hits and explode messily on arrival.

We aren't shown the fine details of what he's working on for a very simple reason - the rest of the world isn't supposed to know he's able to do this stuff, and spoiling the reader also spoils the twist. It's not that the story fails to introduce teleportation via technology as a possibility, but rather the story deliberately hiding that possibility as part of Veidt's plan.

I've always rather liked the timeframe of Veidt's plan. He starts thinking about it a full 20 years before pulling it off, and buys the private island where he builds the creature 15 years in advance. The heroes aren't alerted to his plan by figuring out what Veidt is doing, they're alerted by the cover-up after he's already pretty much done.

[truemane]

This is an old reference, but the single biggest surprise I've ever gotten when reading a book after a movie was in Shoeless Joe (the novel that was adapted into Field of Dreams).

In the movie, one of the plot points is the main character finds a writer who had once been prolific, but had gotten cynical and disengaged with age. And his spirit is redeemed by the power of baseball and he goes to some kind of baseball heaven at the end. In the movie, this is a fictional writer named Terrence Mann.

In the book, the writer is J.D. Salinger (!). And in the book, J.D.Salinger goes on a road trip with the main character and, at the end, goes to baseball heaven as well.

It just seemed such a strange choice to use a real person in a such a way. And apparently they were going to keep that for the film adaptation, except that Salinger threatened to sue.

[Peelee]

This is an old reference, but the single biggest surprise I've ever gotten when reading a book after a movie was in Shoeless Joe (the novel that was adapted into Field of Dreams).

In the movie, one of the plot points is the main character finds a writer who had once been prolific, but had gotten cynical and disengaged with age. And his spirit is redeemed by the power of baseball and he goes to some kind of baseball heaven at the end. In the movie, this is a fictional writer named Terrence Mann.

In the book, the writer is J.D. Salinger (!). And in the book, J.D.Salinger goes on a road trip with the main character and, at the end, goes to baseball heaven as well.

It just seemed such a strange choice to use a real person in a such a way. And apparently they were going to keep that for the film adaptation, except that Salinger threatened to sue.

Until the last four words, I was thinking "well if anyone wouldn't speak up about it, he's not a bad bet".