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2024-02-13, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Compared to 4E, a lot of 5E monster designs and encounter balance is less than ideal. Based on what I have heard from the design team, they are improving both of these aspects for the new non-edition.
At least this non-new-edition will have different fairly stat blocks and vibes compared to the differences between the 3.0 to 3.5 Monster Manuals.
I think most people would have been fine with a staggered release over three months. A staggered release over 5 months is a very different prospect. I do not believe it is weird to ask why the release is occurring over such a long period of time.
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2024-02-13, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Well, there was a highly disruptive global pandemic since 2014 too. I think a 2 month extension between the first release and the last one is reasonable.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-13, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Last edited by Unoriginal; 2024-02-13 at 03:57 PM.
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2024-02-13, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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2024-02-13, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Last edited by Oramac; 2024-02-13 at 05:12 PM.
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2024-02-13, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2024-02-13, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2024
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2024-02-13, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2024
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Did anyone else notice a lack of a new starter set in the release schedule?
- Descent into the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth – March 2024
- Vecna: Eve of Ruin – May 21, 2024
- The Making of Original Dungeons and Dragons: 1970-1976 – June 18, 2024
- Quests from the Infinite Staircase – July 16, 2024
- 2024 Player’s Handbook – September 17, 2024
- 2024 Dungeon Master’s Guide – November 12, 2024
- 2024 Monster Manual – February 18, 2025
Spoiler: Side Discussion about CR, different edtions, etcIt depends on what you are going for. As someone who played & DMed a lot of 3E and PF1E, the fact that not every combat was resolved in the first round of "Rocket Tag" was a bit of a selling point.
Regardless of the combat numbers being absolutely correct or not, I was more thinking of the way monsters were designed in 4E to be interesting game pieces. The average monster in D&D lasts just a few rounds in combat. Having them make bold & impactful moves on the battlefield is - to me & my wargaming nature - more fun than a lot of 3E and 5E monsters whose abilities amount to "roll xd20, end turn."
This is why I am a fan of third party monsters, from places like Kobold Press and MCDM. Your interest & mileage will, of course, vary.
One thing I did love about 4E CR. It was simple and correct in a way that 3E's and 5E's design simply is not. This is one reason why I am pretty excited for the new non-edition. Perkins and Crawford have talked about how the CR system is a lot better now. Also, their monster design in the Monsters of the Multiverse book is noticeably more interesting & fun (at least for how I approach the game (your mileage may vary)).
I am not sure that their inability to finish the book is necessarily the core reason (we have no real idea, so let's do some conjecturing...). December is largely a lost cause for releasing new things. You want your products out in November, when people start buying for the holidays. So December is off the menu. January can be a tricky month. If we look at Magic's Standard sets, they used to release a set in the middle of January but now release them in mid-February instead. I wonder if they have data that shows February is a better buying month than January? This trend largely continues for D&D, this trend holds true, with the only new product released in January being the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Expansion Gift Set (which was the first printing of the Monsters of the Multiverse book). However, this was a mistake as the bundle was supposed to have shipped in early December.
Looking at 5's books, only two have actually dropped in December - the DMG and the mega ultimate flop that was Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen (whose notably terrible sales actually helped kill the Dragonlance TV show).
So in December and January are off the menu, then February is the earliest you can do, unless you release the book much earlier in the fall.
Part of me also kind of feels like the team arbitrarily tying the rules revamp to the 50th anniversary is tying their hands some. If the product is truly not ready, then they should all be delayed until they are ready to go. Sadly, corporate executives would disagree with meLast edited by DragonEyeSeeker; 2024-02-13 at 07:48 PM.
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2024-02-13, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
When the revised PB drops and with WOTC's inevitable bungling with the classes, Would discussion about combining class features from it, Tasha, and the 2014 one for each class belong in this forum or in the Homebrew section of the forums with appropriate title tag/marker?
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2024-02-13, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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2024-02-13, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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2024-02-14, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
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2024-02-14, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-14, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2022
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
[/QUOTE=Psyren;25963533]We only allow hate around here, didn't you get the memo/QUOTE]
We all know that eventually a three book, combo package will be available. It is not that unreasonable for a consumer to want the revised design kit all at once, and not separated by months of time.
The staggered release schedule might benefit WotC, but that does not automatically mean that is also the best means to showcase the product and satisfy the fan base.
For myself, it probably means waiting until all the books are released before purchasing, and frankly if I am going to wait 6 months to buy the books, then I might as well wait a year, and buy lightly worn used books for a fraction of the price, because some of the revised books will be available for used books prices by then. Of course, if I am waiting 5 months or a year to buy, perhaps I just skip the purchase, all together.Last edited by Blatant Beast; 2024-02-14 at 10:58 AM.
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2024-02-14, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
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2024-02-14, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Well the MM won't be ready until 2025, so to get them all at once would mean they'd all have to wait until 2025. The staggered release schedule benefits me, because it means I won't have to wait until 2025 for the PHB. The "fan base" is not a monolith.
Okay? That's your prerogative, and always was. Is this supposed to convince me a staggered release is somehow bad?Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-14, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Well, it takes time to finish a book. And they're revising three, for crying out loud. I'm sure they don't want to release them unfinished, or rather, unpolished (again), any more than we do. It's been too common lately. Just look at how several highly anticipated games turned out at the time of release (Starfield, Cyberpunk 2077, or, you know, 2014 PHB, DMG, or MM); playable, to be fair, but flawed. As the OneD&D undertaking proves.
Besides, you know the saying "The Rome wasn't built in a day", right? Chill, give them all the time they need to get it right. It's not like we're in a hurry. If they can manage the PHB revision within the game's 50th anniversary year, that's good enough.Last edited by Arkhios; 2024-02-14 at 01:42 PM.
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2024-02-14, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2024-02-14 at 02:03 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-02-14, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2024-02-14, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
They probably will release with errors and need errata. The Pathfinder 2e Remaster needed errata on day one of release too.
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2024-02-14, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2024
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
I cannot imagine WotC releasing a book without the need for errata and FAQs. The game is too complex for there not to be, honestly.
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2024-02-14, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2023
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
What a colossal screw up to not have everything released in 2024. Guess that might be why they won't call if D&D 5e:2024 or whatever.
I feel like the less needed book is the DMG as the 5e DMG should suffice... Well, honestly, just wing it before reading that but still, the point stands. They should have released the PHB and the MM closer together and then let pre-fab adventures bridge the gap.
A fix to this would be to release the monster manual in parts (based on monster groups or whatever) and sell them as paperbacks. Could even make them look like an adventurer's book (Ranger or Druid?) that has badly drawn (on purpose) art. Like a Ranger was running away from a beast and was drawing it when they got to a sage spot. They're shaky so the owlbear looks a bit more like a owlblob with a human face.
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2024-02-14, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-02-15, 03:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2023
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2024-02-15, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Errata is standard issue for minor errors, such as missing or erroneous details and mistakes in editing etc. That's normal. People make mistakes. It's basically same as patching a videogame's bugs, not an entire overhaul nor equivalent to a new expansion or edition of a game.
So, yeah. Even I don't expect it to be entirely free of errors like that, as in not needing an errata or two, but I am expecting to see a bit more thoroughly edited and more polished products than in 2014. As far as I recall, that was the whole point of this project. 2024 marking D&D's 50th Anniversary only gave them a good excuse to do it now.
The content itself is another issue, whether it is what we wanted or not. The final quality of the content is the point here. We may agree or disagree with their decisions, but that's not the point.Last edited by Arkhios; 2024-02-15 at 04:01 AM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2024-02-15, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
What I don't get is why they aren't releasing the DMG first. Sure it won't sell nearly as the same volume as the PHB but hopefully they learned *something* from 5e and aren't planning to ad hoc it after they have already started kicking out material.
Theoretically the DMG would showcase the actual system design changes that would be in the PHB/MM and proved (coherent) support for actually running the system.
That is needed *before* people picking apart the player facing content because once they are intrenched you are having to unteach before you do anything else.what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
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2024-02-15, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
I get releasing the PHB first, but I agree that the DMG should be much sooner after that. Or, ideally, release the PHB and DMG at the same time, then wait 3 ish months for the MM. That way both DMs and players have what they truly NEED to play the game, since the PHB has some monsters in it already, and the DMG has the DM stuff. Then the MM later just adds more options for the DM.
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2024-02-15, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2023
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
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2024-02-15, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2024-02-15, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Having done this several times now, the staggered release was never ideal. From a publishing and profit point of view, I understand why its necessary, but every single time it creates confusion and growing pains.
For people buying the books. I highly recommend holding off for a year as that first printing invariably changes as errata and inconsistencies in the core books are ironed out.