Forged in Fire - Designing an "Epic" Weapon

[Shockwave]

Afternoon all

Today I was hoping that I can get your expertise in building an Epic weapon. Why can't I do it? Well I can, but I don't know all the sources for various effects and from the various entries in the Iron Chef threads you lot know FAR more than I do.

What am I looking for? A Weapon for a Noble (wo)man.

Requirements

• Needs to be a Rapier
  No more than a +3 Base Enhancement
  Must have benefit against users of Arcane energy (Example, but not limited to Magebane)
  Augmentation Crystal (Bonus if Synergises with "theme")
  Wand Chamber (Bonus if Synergises with "Theme")
  NOT Profane or Divine
  
  (Optional) Effect Triggering on Critical
  (Optional) Made of Glass Steel
  (Optional) Limited to +1 Enhancement Effects

Additional, this is not a weapon that will be built from the ground up in 1 sitting. So, it would need to be effective at +5, +7 and +10

Sources, Any 3.5 1st party source, Any 1e PF source and Dragon Mag. Other source not prohibited but not preferred.

If you fancy writing a small history for it, go for it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A magic item is considered to be an epic item if it has one or more bonuses over the non-epic maximum, or if the market price of the magical effects exceeds 200,000 gp. The latter only requires the appropriate epic item creation feat and caster level 21+ to create, but is otherwise treated as a non-epic item. The former increases the base market price of the magical effects by 10x.

Kaorti Resin (no price given, material) makes it an exotic weapon but it deals x4 damage on a critical hit.

Skillful (+2, CA, optional) makes it so the current wielder is proficient, and their BAB improves to at least 3/4 of their levels or HD with that weapon.

Magebane (+1, MIC) enhancement improves by +2 and deals +2d6 damage against targets able to cast arcane spells or use invocations. (CA version is better, but this is the most recent one.)

Thundering (+1, DMG) adds +3d8 sonic damage on a critical hit, and forces the target of a crit to make a DC 14 Fort save vs being permanently deafened.

Sudden Stunning (2,000 gp, DMG2) swift action after making a successful attack, stun the target for 1d4+1 rounds unless it makes a Reflex save that scales with the wielder's level and Cha mod. Usable Cha mod times/day.

Displacement (100,000 gp, OA) wielder benefits from the Displacement spell whenever the weapon is held.

Greater Revelation Crystal (5,000 gp, MIC, separate item) reveals invisible creatures and negates concealment/miss chance on targets struck.

With the minimum +3 enhancement, that's exactly 200,000 gp plus 5k for the crystal. So it doesn't even take an epic character to make this. If you don't need Skillful, you can make it a +5 weapon at that same price.

Add on Spellblade (PGtF) several times at 6,000 gp each to make the wielder immune to a specific targeted spell for each one, but doesn't work on area effects. So for example you could select Maze, or Greater Dispel Magic, but not Fireball. It would only protect from the Greater Dispel Magic if it's targeted, not if it's cast as an area effect. However, this is best put on a +1 gauntlet or a +1 armor spikes instead of the primary weapon.

[Maat Mons]

I guess you could consider Oerthblood (Dragon 351, p45) and Pure Ore (Dragon 347, p47). Some of the Artisan Craftsman qualities from Dragon 358 (p39-43) might be worth considering. Dwarvencraft (Races of Stone, p159) is an option. If you’re going with a rapier, I assume your combat style is Dex-based. In that case, Agile is a must.



Edit: Are you using Pathfinder rules with 3.5 elements ported over, or 3.5 rules with Pathfinder elements ported over? If Pathfinder is the base, I think you might not need to abide by a 200,000 gp limit, but I could be wrong. If the limit applies, here’s one possible setup.

Rapier
+1 Enhancement Bonus
Agile: +1; use Dex instead of Str on damage rolls
Anchoring, Greater: +80,000 gp; creature struck is affected by Dimensional Anchor for 10 minutes; Dragon 308, p. 110
Dispelling: +2; 3/day target struck is subject to Greater Dispel; Magic Item Compendium, p. 33
Everbright: +2,000 gp; weapon is immune to rust; Magic Item Compendium, p. 34
Speed: +3; extra attack with full attack

I had been hoping to fit in Illusion Bane (MIC, p36) and Keen, but I guess you’ll need Goggles of True Seeing and the Improved Critical. You can also fit in Dueling, but that could just as easily go on your off hand dagger.

[Biggus]

There are several abilities which trigger on a crit in the MIC:

IMO the best +1 ability is Weakening, it gives -4 Str penalty with no save.

Of the others, Cursespewing (+3) is very nasty, it gives several penalties with no save. There's also Enervating (+2) which gives a negative level, again with no save.

The ones which do allow saves all have fixed DCs and so are only any use for a few levels before most opponents can succeed on the save most of the time.


Other MIC abilities potentially useful against casters:

Illusion Bane (+1) ignores miss chances from illusions, plus a 1/day destroy illusion ability

Impedance (+2) forces enemies to make a caster level check to cast

Revealing (+1) and Blindsighted (+2) are useful against invisible opponents

Binding (+1) prevents teleport and planar travel


Weapon crystals:

I'm pretty sure the ones in the MIC are all that were ever published. The only one specifically of use against magic-users is the Revelation Crystal Biffoniacus_Furiou mentioned, but the Greater Truedeath Crystal and Greater Demolition Crystal allow you to crit undead and constructs respectively so might be worth considering (there's nothing to stop you having one of each and swapping them).


If you really want to go Epic, you might want to consider letting the Dread ability (+7, ELH) apply to Magebane. It's similar to Bane but much more powerful.

Sudden Stunning (2,000 gp, DMG2) swift action after making a successful attack, stun the target for 1d4+1 rounds unless it makes a Reflex save that scales with the wielder's level and Cha mod. Usable Cha mod times/day.

It's worth noting that many people consider this ability brokenly good, especially for the very low price. The MIC ability Stunning Surge (+1, same ability but only lasts 1 round) is probably intended to be an update to it, although it's not explicitly stated to be so anywhere as far as I know.

[Saintheart]

There are several abilities which trigger on a crit in the MIC:

IMO the best +1 ability is Weakening, it gives -4 Str penalty with no save.

For more insult to injury Enfeebling from BOED: 1d6+2 Str damage to the target, also on a critical hit. An Enfeebling, Weakening weapon effectively nerfs a target's Str by minimum 7, maximum 12 since penalties and damage stack.


And while we're on critical hits, consider making the weapon out of Abyssal Bloodiron (Planar Handbook?) and make it a Pitspawned (DMG 2) template weapon. Total of +6 to confirm critical hits.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This has the best weapon I've found to date. Granted, a good portion of it is due to the acorn embedded in it, but the weapon itself is still better than any other one I've ever seen in the d20 system. The acorn is just platinum icing on a golden cake.

And none of that disallows the other suggestions made in this thread.

[Maat Mons]

A Rapier is often used with a dagger in the off hand. Here are some suggestions for that dagger.

Dagger, Dueling
+1 Enhancement Bonus
Burning: +2; as Flaming, but also +2 untyped bonus to initiative; only works if weapon is in hand when initiative is rolled; Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 266
Dueling: +14,000 gp; +4 Enhancement bonus to initiative; only works if weapon is in hand when initiative is rolled
Eager: +1; +2 untyped bonus to initiative; presumably also only works if weapon is in hand when initiative is rolled; Magic Item Compendium, p. 34
Everbright: +2,000 gp; weapon is immune to rust; Magic Item Compendium, p. 34
Guardian: +1; decrease weapon’s enhancement bonus to gain bonus on saves
Lucky: +1; 1/day reroll failed attack roll; Magic Item Compendium, p. 38
Training: +1; wielder gains bonus Combat feat
Warning: +1; +5 Insight bonus to initiative; only works if weapon is in hand when initiative is rolled; Magic Item Compendium, p. 46

[RNightstalker]

Afternoon all

Today I was hoping that I can get your expertise in building an Epic weapon. Why can't I do it? Well I can, but I don't know all the sources for various effects and from the various entries in the Iron Chef threads you lot know FAR more than I do.

What am I looking for? A Weapon for a Noble (wo)man.

Requirements

• Needs to be a Rapier
  No more than a +3 Base Enhancement
  Must have benefit against users of Arcane energy (Example, but not limited to Magebane)
  Augmentation Crystal (Bonus if Synergises with "theme")
  Wand Chamber (Bonus if Synergises with "Theme")
  NOT Profane or Divine
  
  (Optional) Effect Triggering on Critical
  (Optional) Made of Glass Steel
  (Optional) Limited to +1 Enhancement Effects

Additional, this is not a weapon that will be built from the ground up in 1 sitting. So, it would need to be effective at +5, +7 and +10

Sources, Any 3.5 1st party source, Any 1e PF source and Dragon Mag. Other source not prohibited but not preferred.

If you fancy writing a small history for it, go for it.

What kind of build is this for? Will it contain Improved Critical: Rapier? Knowing those could send us in a different direction, but what I have so far:

First thing that comes to mind is to start with the Rogue Blade as a base: 12,320gp for +1 and blink for 6 rounds 2x/day. Miss chances trump AC most if not all of the time.
Other enhancements that come to mind:
Dispelling-+1, (greater)-+1-let's go ahead and debuff the arcane caster 3x/day
Illusionbane-+1-already mentioned
Magebane-+1-should qualify as a prereq for fiercebane-+1-extra damage on critical
Doomwarding-38500 flat-7 charges to use as a free action for additional attack or rerolls
Spellblade-6000 flat to diffuse or redirect a single spell for that signature arcane thesis spell
Stygian-+1-swift action to bestow a negative level on a hit, combines well with enervating (+2)-extra negative level on crit
Aptitude-+1-if going for lightning mace cheese
Eager-+1 and Warning-+1--total of +7 untyped bonus to initative...going first determines a lot in turn based games
Deadly Precision-+1-if going on a SA build
Wounding-+2- -1 to con on a regular hit

Having it build to include a wand chamber shouldn't be a problem for most DM's. (eternal wand of wraithstrike or dolorous blow depending on the build, also enervation if you really want to stack those negative levels). See if the DM will let you add the broken down Ring Sword and Ioun Blade properties from A&EG. An extra 4k each upon original crafting, but a secured ioun stone and extra ring slot are quite nice.

I don't think speed (+3) is worth the price especially as there are plenty of cheap options (Skirmisher Boots, Bracers of Quick Strike, Bracers of Blinding Strike, all for 5k or less come to mind) to provide an extra attack here and there or a few rounds of haste as well(boots of speed 12k, 20k cheaper than the cheapest +1 speed weapon).

Btw, when you say "epic" how epic are we eventually going?

[Buufreak]

Would this premise potentially serve as a forum build competition? Would people be interested in such a thing?

[Shockwave]

First, thank you everyone that replied.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

A magic item is considered to be an epic item if it has one or more bonuses over the non-epic maximum, or if the market price of the magical effects exceeds 200,000 gp. The latter only requires the appropriate epic item creation feat and caster level 21+ to create, but is otherwise treated as a non-epic item.

I'm probably mis-reading this, but a "+10 " weapon is 200k, so a single magical enhancement over that (Spellblade? for 6k) makes require the Epic creation feat no?

Kaorti Resin (no price given, material) makes it an exotic weapon but it deals x4 damage on a critical hit.

I've looked in to this, and it bothers me. It's a resin that you coat the item in rather than an actual material to build a weapon from, it can only be found with demons/ devils (I forget which) and it has no cost to it. Mechanically I dislike it, and fluff wise I dislike it.

Skillfull is an interesting option as it would add an effective +7 to the BAB, so extra attacks, if needed.


Maat Mons

I guess you could consider Oerthblood (Dragon 351, p45)

I really like this, thanks for advising it, slap on Trobriand's Glassee for the Glass Steel effect and it hits the visuals.

Edit: Are you using Pathfinder rules with 3.5 elements ported over, or 3.5 rules with Pathfinder elements ported over? If Pathfinder is the base, I think you might not need to abide by a 200,000 gp limit, but I could be wrong. If the limit applies, here’s one possible setup.

This is a bit of a weird one, When I said, I was referring to enhancements like Agile that you mentioned. But in truth, the game doesn't use Xp in crafting and crafting DC's so, it's very much like Pathfinder base

Agile: +1; use Dex instead of Str on damage rolls
Anchoring, Greater: +80,000 gp; creature struck is affected by Dimensional Anchor for 10 minutes; Dragon 308, p. 110

Agile is a spot on call, so thank you for that. Anchoring, the wielder is significantly more likely to need immunity to Dimensional Anchor, than cast/ need it.

Biggus

There are several abilities which trigger on a crit in the MIC:

IMO the best +1 ability is Weakening, it gives -4 Str penalty with no save.

Of the others, Cursespewing (+3) is very nasty, it gives several penalties with no save. There's also Enervating (+2) which gives a negative level, again with no save.

The ones which do allow saves all have fixed DCs and so are only any use for a few levels before most opponents can succeed on the save most of the time.

I had looked at weakening and thought it good, as well as Cursespewing but the +3 put me off.

I had also found that the Fixed DC effects lacking, for the very reason you mentioned. Hitting DC 15 can be very easy after 6 or so levels.

RNightstalker

What kind of build is this for?

Epic Level (30 total Levels) Aristocrat, with MULTI casting levels (3/16/19 if memory serves)
It is not a weapon that will see lots of combat, but if it does, it should be the type of weapon that you would expect on a belt of such a person. So, Improved Critical will not be a feat possessed by it's owner.

[Biggus]

Biffoniacus_Furiou

I'm probably mis-reading this, but a "+10 " weapon is 200k, so a single magical enhancement over that (Spellblade? for 6k) makes require the Epic creation feat no?

You are correct:

In general, an item, with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item [...] Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or Weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items

However, there are a handful of items (most notably the Staff of Power from the DMG) which have market price over 200,000GP but don't list an epic feat as a prerequisite.

[RNightstalker]

Epic Level (30 total Levels) Aristocrat, with MULTI casting levels (3/16/19 if memory serves)
It is not a weapon that will see lots of combat, but if it does, it should be the type of weapon that you would expect on a belt of such a person. So, Improved Critical will not be a feat possessed by it's owner.

Shattermantle-+1-each hit lowers a creatures SR by 2 until the next turn...multiple hits in a round stack.
Keen-+1-Watch out for enhancements that say they don't stack with other things that affect criticals...30% crit chance is nothing to sneeze at.
Vanishing-8k flat-1/day swift action to effectively dimension door up to 60' away after a melee hit.

[Maat Mons]

I don’t think a 30th level NPC can have an epic weapon. Page 317 of the Epic Level Handbook says a 30th level NPC should have 570,000 gp worth of gear. Page 130 of the Epic Level Handbook says a weapon with a total effective enhancement bonus of +11 costs 2,420,000 gp, or a weapon with a +6 enhancment bonus and no special abilities costs 720,000 gp. Even if we take a 200,000 gp weapon and add a 2,000 gp flat-costed special ability to it, the x10 multiplier rule is invoked, and the weapon winds up costing 2,020,000 gp.

I guess that’s probably why you put “epic” in quotation marks, but it’s news to me.

The Skillful enhancement seems very compelling for a 30th level character, since it would give you a base attack bonus of +22. Though, if you’re going to have the Skillful enchantment on it, you could just as well have it be an Elven Thinblade. If he’s not going to have Improved Critical, I think that puts Keen back on the table. If he’d going to be lacking combat feats in general, I’d also consider Training keyed to the Weapon Finesse feat, which would mean anyone wielding the weapon would gain Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, provided they meet the prerequisite (base attack bonus +1). Alternately, a Feycraft Elven Lightblade allows anyone to use Dex to hit with it, even if they lack Weapon Finesse.

If the character has his own spellcasting, Spellstoring and its variants seem pretty tempting. Dispelling Burst allows you to cast a prepared Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic as a swift action whenever you confirm a critical hit. Plus, you add the weapon’s enhancement bonus to the dispel check, and if you’re using the Pathfinder versions of the spells, there’s no cap on the caster level you can add to the check.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you have a weapon that can shapeshift, and you can shift it into a building (or you have a steel building shaped like a sword that is enhanced with the sizing property), you can use the Landlord feat (Stronghold Builder's Guide) to apply money to upgrading it. Nothing in the rules says how it needs to be improved, so use that to enhance it as a weapon. It grants a free 800,000 gp, and it matches 1-to-1 any further amounts of money you add to it beyond that. So spend 200,000 gp, gain a total of 1,000,000 gp out of the feat (in addition to the 200k you spent). If you use your own crafting feats (including ones like the Create Device feat and cost reduction feats) you could fairly easily break the epic level cost by 30th level. Even easier if you enhance an arrow as a morphing/sizing weapon for that sweet 98% discount.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've looked in to this, and it bothers me. It's a resin that you coat the item in rather than an actual material to build a weapon from, it can only be found with demons/ devils (I forget which) and it has no cost to it. Mechanically I dislike it, and fluff wise I dislike it.

Kaorti are in the Fiend Folio, they're evil outsiders of the Far Realm, not from any lower plane. Originally they were mortal wizards who sought to explore another dimension, and were twisted by the chaos of the Far Realm into humanoid-shaped monsters.

The resin itself is a material that items can be made from. Consider the movie Aliens, the alien nest was constructed of some kind of resinous material that the creatures had secreted. This is pretty much the same thing, the kaorti make their armor and weapons from a hard resin they're able to excrete and mold until it's hardened. They also cover the interior of their material plane lairs in the same material. It's basically like making a sword from hardened epoxy.

The resin will deteriorate over time unless a kaorti is maintaining it by adding new layers of resin to replace those that have worn away and fill in any cracks that form. However, if it's a magic item it needs no such upkeep. As long as you can start with a +1 weapon, you can say it was recovered from a kaorti. The Fiend Folio has the Ribbon Dagger valued at 50 gp in the monster entry, which is the same material. A dagger is normally 2 gp, so x25 base price would seem fair, putting a Kaorti Resin Rapier at 500 gp.

[ShurikVch]

"Planescape: The Exiled Factions" article (Dragon #315) includes the Spireshard weapon ability: creature wounded by it must make DC 19 Will save or be unable to cast spells or use SLA for 1d4 rounds; unfortunately, Spireshard was priced as +3

Truesilver (Ghostwalk with 3.5 update) - count as Alchemical Silver; can be used to Crit and/or Sneak Attack Ghosts - Ghostwalk Ghosts; can be added to existing weapon; +0 (non-magical); +1,000 gp

Prismatic Burst (Magic Item Compendium) - on a successful Crit, produces Prismatic Spray (save DC 20); works even on creatures which are immune to Crits; +30,000 gp

Slow Burst (Magic Item Compendium) - on a successful Crit, Slows the enemy for 3 rounds (Will DC 14 negates); works even on creatures which are immune to Crits; +5,000 gp

Also, it may be kinda cheesy, but making the weapon into Intelligent Item turn it into Construct - and, thus, a creature; then apply to it Paragon Creature template - for 3/day CL 15 Greater Dispel Magic