Shadow Creature template and the race behind it.

[CopperElfCleric]

So a NPC is being developed to guide my Star elf through the Plane of Shadow. The NPC is a Sun elf with the Shadow Creature template. Does this make the NPC a shadow elf? Not that silly Shadar-Kai stuff, but a true shadow elf? The template makes the creature (sun elf) much darker in appearance, spookier and distorted in appearance. So i ask you all... Do we consider the sun elf and call the sun elf a shadow creature as the template suggests, or do we consider the sun elf a shadow elf, like a shadow mastiff or shadow lion?

[Maat Mons]

I'd say they're a shadow sun elf, and should take levels in Ninja followed by levels in Shadow Sun Ninja.

[CopperElfCleric]

The NPC is already a CR 21. Duskblade 15/ Scout 5. Sorry. The +1 coming from the shadow creature template. So you agree this NPC should be called a Shadow Sun elf, and not a Shadow Creature as the template suggests?

[Crake]

The NPC is already a CR 21. Duskblade 15/ Scout 5.

I think Maat was just joking about the shadow sun ninja part

As for what to call it, you're the DM, you can call it whatever you want, it's entirely up to you. The same creature can also have many different names, so its not impossible to be called both.

I would consider the origins of the character. Are they the descendant of a shadow creature and a sun elf? If so, they would probably identify as both a shadow creature, and a sun elf, hence "Shadow sun elf", but if they have lived on the shadow plane all their lives, and are descended from a long line of shadow creature elves, then they probably don't really have any identification with the sun part of their elf heritage.

There's also not a HUGE difference between elves, high, grey, sun, moon, star, the only real immediate difference is the typical color of some of their features, but a pale sun elf with dark hair might easily be mistaken for a moon elf, and a high elf with silver hair might be mistaken for a grey elf.

Anyway, end of the day, its up to you, you're the DM.

[CopperElfCleric]

I think Maat was just joking about the shadow sun ninja part

As for what to call it, you're the DM, you can call it whatever you want, it's entirely up to you. The same creature can also have many different names, so its not impossible to be called both.

I would consider the origins of the character. Are they the descendant of a shadow creature and a sun elf? If so, they would probably identify as both a shadow creature, and a sun elf, hence "Shadow sun elf", but if they have lived on the shadow plane all their lives, and are descended from a long line of shadow creature elves, then they probably don't really have any identification with the sun part of their elf heritage.

There's also not a HUGE difference between elves, high, grey, sun, moon, star, the only real immediate difference is the typical color of some of their features, but a pale sun elf with dark hair might easily be mistaken for a moon elf, and a high elf with silver hair might be mistaken for a grey elf.

Anyway, end of the day, its up to you, you're the DM.

Yes... About 2,000 years in the plane of shadow caused his family as slaves to the Shadovar to evolve into the Shadow Creature template... So inherited indeed. Lineage is sun elf, but that past is only spoken in whispers to the NPC. He is fully a Shadow Creature as per the template. So would he be considered a Shadow elf? Or retain the moniker of shadow creature when I stat him out? Hence... Do I say... Piven Starym CN Shadow elf.... Or Piven Starym CN Shadow creature?

[loky1109]

What do you mean "considered"? For what purpose?
Calling? You could call him as you want, but RAW correct is Piven Starym CN Shadow Sun Elf.
Some mechanical effects? He still is Sun Elf, while being Shadow. If some effect needs strict "shadow" in creature race - this doesn't work.
Shadow Elf != Shadow Sun Elf. As I know there are no "Shadow Elves" in 3.5 first party.

[Maat Mons]

I believe it's just a question of how specific you want to be.

For a simple analogy, suppose you were writing up a character sheet for A. Square, the character from flatland. A. Square is, appropriately enough, a square. He is also a rectangle, a parallelogram, a quadrilateral, a polygon, a regular polygon, and a shape. All of those are perfectly accurate descriptions.

Piven Starym is a creature, a living creature, a humanoid, an elf, a sun elf, a shadow creature, a shadow elf, a shadow sun elf, a shadow humanoid, a shadow creature, a living humanoid, a living elf, a living sun elf, a living shadow creature, and a bunch of other things. All of those are perfectly accurate descriptions.

For A. Square, I'd just write that he's a square, since it can be inferred from that information that he is also a rectangle, parallelogram, quadrilateral, et c..

For Piven Starym, I wouldn't bother writing creature, humanoid, or living on his character sheet, since most people would assume that just from the fact that it says elf. I would include shadow and sun, since those are useful pieces of additional information. So I'd write shadow sun elf. Anything else seems either needlessly wordy, or needlessly vague.

[CopperElfCleric]

Ok. Thank you all so very much. Going with Shadow Sun elf. I appreciate all the help.