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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Skald Rage Powers (Paizo in Review)

    Preamble: The guys I was running for wanted to run a pathfinder game now that I was done with the campaign (completed the campaign. Twice. With internet randos. Woo). Didn't want spheres. "It's too powerful," they said... as they then used gestalt. And open to literally all races and classes, as long as they are first party. Well, whatever. These guys are pretty sweet for randos, so I'll stick it out for them.

    So I was considering playing Oracle // Skald. Then I looked at the cleric spell list, going to first level spell choices.... And kept going... and going... and going. Literally 104 first level spells on the cleric spell list. And probably 90% of them are crap. I was going to do a "In Review" deal with the first level spells... and then realized the number. That would take me multiple chapters for just one spell level. And I'd have to pick through that garbage every single time I rested for spells.

    So...No. Screw that. I don't care about the power. That's obnoxious. (Yeah, 104 spells at level 1 is so much less powerful than maybe 4 or 6 spells at level 1, if you fully invest in gaining access. Spheres is OP.)
    Instead, I'm just going to be summoning creatures in. But I do have to pick from the rage powers for skald. And there's probably a dozen other guides already made about it. I don't care. I am sick, and I haven't done these reviews in far too long.

    Post Review Analysis: I was half way through when I noticed I started 3 hours earlier, and am both bored and tired. Just assume that everything not explicitly mentioned is trash, or don't work. Half of what's not trash is still boring.
    Well, good news, 90% of the not-trash stuff is found in the top half of the list. That's awesome.
    This wasn't even viscerally unpleasant to review. It was just boring.

    Spoiler: Ratings
    Show
    (1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
    (1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves.
    (2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
    (3) Meh: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.

    (4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
    (5) Never: There’s no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
    (6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.

    <Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
    [Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign you’re playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.

    Special Ratings:
    (C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
    (?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or it’s far too ambiguous.
    (F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
    (D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.


    (Everything is rated based on its use for a Skald in particular

    Good for What Ails You (1): Drink like your life depends on it. And you can overcome even being blinded. Your eyes can be burned out of their socket, and if you make the save, you can see again. All thanks to the magic of booze. Works in AMF.
    You only suppress one condition per drink though. And drinking takes a... move... action? Unsure. Hard to find the rules. Even so, many of the conditions you can attempt to suppress are so bad that any martial ought to be willing to give up a move action to attempt to remove it.

    Spoiler: Ancester Totems (1.5)
    Show
    Overall: Scales better and faster than Inspire Competence, and doesn't prevent you from buffing yourself like Competence does. Immediately makes up for 70% of the downside of not being a bard.

    Lesser: +2 to a single ragable skill (selected when you rage).
    Base: +4, but for any skill, and make it rageable
    Greater: +6, and once/rage, spend a round to reroll


    Reckless Abandon (1.5): -1 to AC for +1 to attack. Both +1/4 level. Best in low lethality campaigns to just hit more often without really risking death.

    Spoiler: Superstition (1.5)
    Show
    (Including all that require Superstition to function)
    Superstition (1.5): +2 (+1/4 lvl) to all saves against all spells, supernatural, and spell-likes. Just make sure to buff before raging. Invest in giving your healer some means of overcoming will saves...especially since your bonus to will saves scales... yeesh. Oof. Yeah. You're going to want healing potions, or some passive / triggered healing buffs.
    Barbarian Sudden Death Syndrome may be harder to avoid when your entire party is like this. But, hey, for the chance of getting half value from cure spells, you are substantially less likely to need them.

    Disruptive [1]: Exclusively useful if your DM makes ready use of spellcasters. But if they do, it can become incredibly unreasonable (and thus actually good)... if your DM then also says that it stacks. There's a lot of RAW saying that it could. Doesn't stop the DM saying that it doesn't.

    Ghost Rager <1>: "I ain't 'fraid of no ghost." (Full damage to incorporeal, for your full party.)

    Eater of Magic (2): 1/rage (per ally?), reroll a failed save, and on success, gain temp hp. Doesn't prevent BSDS, because you can only reroll on a fail, which means you can't reroll a successful save against an allied heal.


    Spoiler: Elemental Rage (1.5)
    Show
    Fits the pattern of a totem. But doesn't say totem. Potentially doesn't take your totem slot.
    Lesser: Swift action to add +1d6 elemental to *all* melee attacks for the round. (Martials in Paizo don't use swift action nearly like SoM does).
    Base: Another 1d6 elemental (but passively). Different element. Basically adding a greatsword to every attack.
    Greater: Elemental crit. Who cares.
    -------
    Elemental Blood
    Lesser: 3/day (per ally?), swift action to get another 1d6 to all melee attacks for the round.
    base: Resist 10. Eh.
    Greater: nice movement, based on chosen elemental. Like burrow or fly. Fly. It cost 3 powers, but it's otherwise no additional cost while being used, for your entire team.
    By level 10, however, you probably have a better source of flight.


    Spoiler: Natural Attack Powers (2)
    Show
    Overall: Skald is good at improving combat. Adding natural attacks makes your team better at combat. (Marginally, if they aren't already Nat Attk focused. But it even affects familiars and animal companions and spirits and anything else that's a class feature with legs.)
    Spoiler: Beast Totem (1.5)
    Show
    Overall: If you want natural attacks, this is the totem to go. Pounce is just so good. Giving everyone pounce is even better.
    Lesser: 2 claw attacks. Primary. Most natural attackers already have them. But not all. I don't think you can use them with occupied hands either.
    Base: 1 + 1/4 lvl natural armor. Untyped bonus. Makes everyone more durable.
    Greater: Pounce, and boost claw attack damage.


    Abyssal Blood (2): See Beast totem's claws. But takes a Blood slot, rather than totem. And can make you big. No pounce though.
    Draconic Blood (2): As Abyssal, but rather than enlarge, gain breath attack.

    Animal Fury (2): Adds one primary bite. Arguably doesn't work if you don't have a second head, if you already have bite, which most things kinda do, if they are natural attackers. Its rules probably just reiterate how using natural attacks with normal weapons work. It works with hands already full. (At a -5 to hit, but still.)
    (All) Linnorm Death Curse (3): +1 damage. But to all melee attacks. For all your allies. Low value, but maybe you really ran out of rage powers.

    Bloody Bite (4): Bleed damage on bite. Eh. Bleed doesn't stack. Better when there are fewer attackers to empower. But you're worse when there are fewer attackers to empower. Much more so than this is better.

    Spoiler: Atavism Totem <5>
    Show
    Overall: No synergy whatsoever, and is a lesser option than above, while locking you out of any other totems.
    Lesser: See Animal Fury. But explicitly don't gain a second bite attack.
    Base: Everyone gets to roleplay a half orc.
    Greater: Your team can trample. If you make them very big.


    Feasting Bite (4): On crit confirm, regain half damage dealt with bite. Requires Bloody Bite.

    Animal Fury, Greater (5): Literally +1 expected damage, on just your bite.
    Brawler (5): If your team were unarmed build, they'd have this already. If they aren't, then this isn't useful.
    Brawler, Greater (5): Explicitly confirming the intent that, yes, you can two-weapon fight with unarmed. Has niche usability for... a team of unarmed fighters? You might have different troubles if that is what you have. Plus you need Brawler. For your unarmed fighters.


    Clear Mind (2): Reroll will save as immediate action. Might need to stop and restart inspire rage if you need to use it, but when you do, it tends to be good.

    No Escape [2]: Assuming you are in a campaign where enemies escaping is a bad thing (like with a dungeon crawl, or any sort of crime-based game), you can ensure that they can't withdraw to do so, or else provoke your entire team

    Spoiler: Intimidation Rage Powers
    Show
    Intimidating Glare (1): Move action demoralize for 1d4 rather than 1 base round of shaken. And you give this to everyone. If your team wants to demoralize, this is the way to do it.
    Boasting Taunt (2): Key word: "Also". So, even if your teammate only barely make the intimidate, the shaken lasts until they attack them. But even if they immediately do, they still face the base duration.


    Deathless Frenzy (2): Letting literally everyone on your team not drop dead until their next turn is great. Not only because of the Barbarian Sudden Death Syndrome, but because even the healer gets this ability.

    Spoiler: Movement Rage Powers <?>
    Show
    Bestial Climber <1>: In a dungeon crawl, this could be one of the best traversal tools you have, for the incredibly low cost of the number of rage rounds it takes you guys to walk across the walls around the pit. Requires Raging Climber though. And that really kinda sucks. That eats up 6-levels-worth of rage powers.

    Bestial Leaper [1]: Spring Attack, but for your entire party. If your party could use something like this, it's cool. Requires Raging Leaper, which really sucks.

    Bestial Swimmer <2>: I mean, when you're needing to traverse water... you can normally climb around it instead. Sometimes you can climb the side of it, if you need to go under. And even with the situational tag, it's just so incredibly situational it can't get any higher than a 2.

    Spoiler: Dragon Totem (3)
    Show
    Overall: It's really quite reasonable. Bonus to perception (while raging), up to +3, and resistance (to one element), up to 8 by level 10. But you're really here for the flight. Problem being? Everything other than flight is really rather mid, and takes up a totem slot. I'll be honest, I'd rather take Bestial Climber in 7/8 cases I could think of, simply for the opportunity cost. (And cost in rounds. But that should be minor by level 10).


    Raging Climber / Leaper / Swimmer: +level to those skill checks. Strictly used for qualifying for Bestial versions.



    Spoiler: Celestial Totem(4)
    Show
    Overall: Lesser power grants great bonus healing that keeps even the lowest level stuff relevant, for your entire team. But nothing synergizes with that, and has very limited targeting.
    Lesser: +1 per level to all healing done. Great.
    Base: Shine like daylight... out to 5 feet, like the anti-evil invisibility purge? Wow that's kinda garbage.
    Greater: Ooo, spell resist... against evil spells. But also +2 to saves from evil creatures. Kinda... basic. But decidedly good, for the majority of campaigns.


    Come and Get Me (4): Even worse for Skald than for Barbarians, because most enemies don't actually have that many AoOs. But can ensure that every AoO possible does get triggered for retaliation, which really opens the battlefield (which is the point - it's just not brilliant).

    Flesh Wound (4): 1/rage, fort save to convert a single attack's damage, half way, to non lethal. Wow that's a lot of effort, for way too little pay off.

    Spoiler: Energy Resistance (4)
    Show
    Energy Resistance (5): One type resistance = 1/2 level. That's hot garbage.
    Greater Energy Resistance (2): Half damage of one type. That's pretty good.

    (And everything else that requires Energy Resistance. Is even worse! Holy hell. How. )


    Spoiler: Cult Totem (4)
    Show
    Overall: Lesser is... a downgrade over having nothing. But getting to AoO, simply for the opponent striking another ally is pretty good (if everyone gets a unique instance of the ability, which they should). Then letting literally everyone on your team not drop dead until their next turn is also great. Not only because of the Barbarian instant death syndrome, but because even the healer gets this ability.
    ...and immediately afterwards, Deathless Frenzy. Well, that's better (2 levels later), and doesn't take your totem slot, nor 2 additional powers.

    Lesser: +damage rather than +hit on flank. Damage is flat bonus. Hit is percentile. This is bad. Ask if you can choose to not use this power.
    Base: AoO if opponent in reach hits an ally. Triggers once per enemy (per "barbarian," if not, ignore this entire totem).
    Greater: Healer stays alive. Makes sure skald stays alive. Which makes sure no one suddenly dies from having too little Con.


    Fierce Fortitude (5): Garbage
    Chaos Totem (5)Overall: Just kinda garbage
    Fiend Totem (5): Also Garbage.

    Armor Ripper (5): Bonus to sunder. With exclusively natural attacks. It would still be down here even without that second part.
    Body Bludgeon (5): First, you have to pin an opponent. Then you get to finally use them as weapon. But they were pinned, and thus really no longer a threat, so rather than getting to count them twice, since you hurt both the creature and the target... you're only effectively hurting one person who would otherwise be a threat. And you are probably a grapple build, so it's less good than... yeah, this is just a bad ability. Use a great sword.
    Surprise Accuracy /Deadly Accuracy (5): 1/rage. +1 (+1/4 lvl) to hit. God that is hot ****ing garbage. Even if it's 1/rage/barbarian. DA is for strictly crit confirms.

    Spoiler: Daemon Totem (6)
    Show
    Overall: You are here, strictly for the base totem, where suddenly everyone gets to .. oh. On crit. Well, no. Screw this.


    Breathtaker (?): Could be cool, if you've got an ally who can reliably force enemies to need to hold their breath, as now your entire team gets to knock the wind out of them. This is really mean for a group of mermen... but you'd probably be in an aquatic campaign, which would then make this basically worthless. But a lot of cloud kill, maybe? You've got an acolyte of nurgle on your team?

    Crippling Blow / Powerful Blow (?): Crippling blow lets your team stat-kill, rather than HP-kill. (Or try to.) While literally sacrificing only the tiniest bit of damage.
    Problem being that stat-killing is a degenerate strategy. But at least now you're getting your entire team in on it. And with everyone doing it, it's actually pretty effective. Which makes it even more degenerate. But at least your team is in on it.

    Auspicious Mark (NA): Literally can't be used by skald. Even if it could, you wouldn't want to. It's really rather painfully bad.
    Battle Roar (NA): Can't be used.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2024-02-24 at 02:52 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Skald Rage Powers (Paizo in Review)

    I find the formatting hard to read because some things are in spoiler tags, some in double spoiler
    tags, and some are not.

    Note that drinking is a standard action (except in highly specific builds), so GFWAY is not so great.

    I haven't found the spirit totem in your list but have found it very effective.

    To complicate things further, there are Skald archetypes that can hand out weapon special abilites, or rogue talents, or teamwork feats. Some of those make for very effective combos, too.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Skald Rage Powers (Paizo in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I find the formatting hard to read because some things are in spoiler tags, some in double spoiler
    tags, and some are not.

    Note that drinking is a standard action (except in highly specific builds), so GFWAY is not so great.

    I haven't found the spirit totem in your list but have found it very effective.

    To complicate things further, there are Skald archetypes that can hand out weapon special abilites, or rogue talents, or teamwork feats. Some of those make for very effective combos, too.
    Fair enough. Mostly spoiler-ed to group related talents. Especially those that required other talents in the spoiled section. Since if you'd be interested in the section, you might want to know more about that set of talents, rather than searching up and down looking for natural attack-granters....which granted, were fewer than expected.
    I could change it to quote areas.

    Good point about drinking. I thought that was for specifically potions, and there were different rules for alcohol. I could have been mistaken.

    As far as Spirit Totem (L), it grants a single slam attack... which might not actually count as the barbarian's slam attack. And it's attack is based on BAB + Cha. There are two readings: 1 (the most reasonable), "the barbarian" is the individual receiving the rage song benefits, which means those in melee get to make use of it... and those sorts of characters tend to be less-than-cha-focused, so you may be adding 1d4 -1 damage, or an average of 1.5 damage. You'd be better off with a death curse that adds +1 dmg per melee attack. And those are hardly great.
    The other reading is that "the barbarian" is the skald... which lets him get cha bonus benefits... but only around you, which again, doesn't seem reasonable.
    And that's before getting into the potential reading that it's the spirits' attacks, not the barbarians'. This would leave it free from most natural/melee attack benefits that it might normally benefit from. I oppose this reading, as it is needlessly punitive, and argue that it's just fluff. But that doesn't mean that it's an invalid reading, as it does repeatedly say "the slam" and "the spirit" rather than "the barbarian gains," or anything to that nature.

    20% miss chance against those not-adjacent is kinda cool. Works against spells.

    Greater, meanwhile, takes until level 10, gives a +1 average damage to the slam (per person), and adds 4.5 DPR (per person) in a 5-ft radius. While then reiterating that it's the spirits making the slam attack 15 feet away.
    That is remarkably underwhelming, and uninteresting.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skald Rage Powers (Paizo in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    As far as Spirit Totem (L), it grants a single slam attack... which might not actually count as the barbarian's slam attack.
    The Skald explicitly mentions "If the rage power’s effects depend on the skald’s ability modifier (such as lesser spirit totem), affected allies use the skald’s ability modifier instead of their own for the purposes of this effect."

    So yeah, all your allies and yourself get a free attack at the Skald's charisma modifier. Ok, at high levels that's still going to miss a lot, but at low-to-mid level it is very good DPR, in addition to bypassing DR, darkness, and most other common defenses.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Skald Rage Powers (Paizo in Review)

    Spirit Totem works well with Summons - specifically the summon spells that get you multiple creatures, because each will carry a slam attack using your statistics.

    Now, those summons will be very squishy, but you can actually abuse that by taking one of the Linnorn Death Curses.
    The various 4th-level Curses that give elemental vulnerability can be nicely used as setup to exploit, Tarn shuts down enemy healing, and Tor inflicts permanent stagger which is pretty much a save or die you inflict if the enemy knocks out one of your summons.

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