Melee Sorcerer Gish without multiclassing

[Psyren]

If you had to build a gishy sorcerer without multiclassing or dipping, how would you make it? What would you do to make them tough and martial enough to stand around in melee, and which feats and spells would you aim for, and when? Are there any magic items particularly suited to this concept?

Pretty much every other fullcaster has a subclass specifically designed for melee, but Sorcerer seems to have a design gap here, unless I'm missing something.

To add a tiny bit of spice, assume no racial armor proficiencies are allowed either (e.g. no Mountain Dwarf or MToF Githyanki.) You can still get armor and shield proficiencies via feats as normal. Natural armor races e.g. Tortle or Lizardfolk are both fine. Bonus points if you can somehow get multiple attacks per round (a bonus action attack counts for this even if it's limited in use like War Cleric's). Lastly, both the 5e and UA Sorcerer are fine as well.

[KorvinStarmast]

If you had to build a gishy sorcerer without multiclassing or dipping, how would you make it? What would you do to make them tough and martial enough to stand around in melee, and which feats and spells would you aim for, and when?

Are there any magic items particularly suited to this concept?

Pretty much every other fullcaster has a subclass specifically designed for melee, but Sorcerer seems to have a design gap here, unless I'm missing something.

To add a tiny bit of spice, assume no racial armor proficiencies are allowed either (e.g. no Mountain Dwarf or MToF Githyanki.) You can still get armor and shield proficiencies via feats as normal. Natural armor races e.g. Tortle or Lizardfolk are both fine. Bonus points if you can somehow get multiple attacks per round (a bonus action attack counts for this even if it's limited in use like War Cleric's). Lastly, both the 5e and UA Sorcerer are fine as well.

Since you are using UA I can't really play, since so much if it is clunky, but, here's what I'd suggest to start at level 1.
vHuman
Draconic Origin, Dex 16 to start. (This also gives one HP boost per level)
Mobile feat (I'll discuss that in a second).
Obvious Spells:
Cantrips
Booming Blade
Green Flame blade
Ray of Frost or Fire bolt
(something utility)
1 Level:
Shield
Color Spray: disable opponents, break up groups.
Thinking ahead:

2d level:
Web
Magic Weapon
Mirror Image
Suggestion: get them to fight someone else
3d level: Hypnotic Pattern.
Fear

Mobile feat lets you hit and run with Booming blade. Being a gish does not necessarily mean being a tank. Early on you need to hit and run, as well as trigger booming blade.
Green flame blade lets you do damage to multiple opponents
Shield lets you be a little more tanky.

INT- dump stat.

(Not sure what I'd do with CON, but I'd probably start at 14).
Weapon: dagger
Tempting Feat later: Weapons Master (get stuff like rapier and scimitar and short sword proficiencies).

Max Dexterity? That boosts to hit, dmg, boosts AC, and it's a save you'll need anyway.

Probably need 10-12 in WIS.

That's a roughed-out way to start.

Are there any magic items particularly suited to this concept?

Wand of web
That sword that adds AC to you: Defender
Dancing Sword
Bracers of Defense (+2 AC)
Ring of protection
Cloak of Displacement.

Most of the above require attunement, so pick three. Note that my level 12 Warlock still uses her wand of web.

[Amnestic]

I know it's not optimal and that draconic's health+AC is almost certainly better, but Wild Magic to get Tides of Chaos-advantage on scagtrip attacks would be "viable", especially if you're using slots on Shield/Absorb Elements often to proc surges that'd then give you ToC again.

I'd probably be looking at Quicken as my primary metamagic to slot in some 'normal' spells too.

So far as I know Tasha's Otherworldly Guise (6th) is the only sorcerer spell that'd net them extra attack, and with a 1 minute (concentration) duration and a 6th level slot requirement it's pretty pricey. Tenser's Transformation is Wizard only, because of course it is.

[RSP]

Playing one now and it works. Straight Drow Clockwork Soul Sorc. Dex>Con>Cha. Mage Armor + Dex for viable AC. Particularly early on, just view other 1st level slots as AE or Shield.

If you’re interested in melee, with any caster - and particularly Sorc, it’s about dedicating to the playstyle. Plan on using your slots for Shield, AE, and Shadow Blade* (note: I know others see it as an issue, but to me and my DM, a SB counts as having a value of at least 1 sp).

Drow gives Rapier and Hand Crossbow for non-SB combats. Either way, you’re doing either GFB or BB.

You’ll get AoA and Aid through CS spells. Basic thought is upcast Aid for HP durability (and help out 2 party mates), and, once hitting 6th level, you can use AoA upcasted with Bastion of Law for great use of extra durability and retribution damage on hits.

So, for my current Sorc, currently level 9, he has 20 Dex, 16 Con. 65 HPs bumps up to 85 (5th level Aid) which is equal to a 9th level fighter with 16 Con. BoL lasts until used or a LR, so start the day with 5d8 of damage absorption.

When you get a tough encounter, throw on AoA upcasted, for 20 tHP and 20 damage dealt on each hit, while absorbing the damage dealt.

Basically your combat spells are SB (can upcast to 3rd level for 3d8 damage), Shield, AE, AoA and Aid. Everything else is personal preference.

You get Advantage on your attack when in dim/darkness, which helps.

At some point, Quicken helps when really wanting that second attack (or for getting AoA up while still getting BB or GFB out). Extended can help with all day Aid and Mage Armor casting, or using left over slots prior to a LR.

In tier 2 your melee damage is okay, while you’re probably at least as durable as a fighter and the AoA really adds up. A different way of getting to a competent melee character, durable more than damage, but quite fun.

[KorvinStarmast]

A few other add ons to what I started:

Spell, 2d level: Misty Step
Spell: 3d level, Slow. (-2 AC to enemy, enemy only gets one attack, not multiples).
Spell, 4th level: Freedom of Movement
Spell; Steel Wind Strike - oops, sorry, only Ranger and Wizard

Feat: Warcaster at 4 or 8. Keep concentration spells up. (Like web) better.

Again, this is gish, not Tank Mage.

[Salmon343]

I'm going to assume that by UA Sorcerer you mean the 2024 5e (or One D&D) Sorc - otherwise Stone Sorcerer UA works pretty well out of the box.

Gishing as a pure sorcerer is very achievable! I've never done it, but extrapolating my Sorcerer gish builds it'd work quite well.

The main things to overcome are low HP, and a lack of native access to Extra Attack. A subtle thing to consider is effectiveness - I find that if I'm a better spellcaster I tend to just cast spells instead of gish, even if I'm built for it. But that depends on the player.
___
To account for low HP I tend to bolster defences and saves. Frankly, I tend to prefer greater defensive abilities than HP anyway. Both the Sorcerer gishes I made had a couple of levels in a martial class - Fighter for one, and Paladin for the other - so I got armour from there. But I don't think that's necessary. (I actually did it for different things - Action Surge on a Time Based Gish (with an adapted Clockwork Soul), and Divine Smite on a Stellar Themed Gish (with an adapted Aberrant Mind). As you won't be getting Extra Attack, the benefits of dexterity far outweighs the slightly higher damage base of strength. You can go for a Dex based gish with Mage Armour. On the saves front, I tend to stick Resilient Con or Resilient Wis on just about anything. We already get Con proficiency by turning up, so we can bump up those Wis saves. Then it's a matter of defensive magics. Shield is your bread and butter. Absorb Elements is great, and the primary reason why I wouldn't regret lacking proficiency in Dex saves. There's also Silvery Barbs, which is weaker defensively than Shield, but more flexible - and good for a crit.
___
Now, how do we deal damage? Well we lack Extra Attack - but we have Metamagic. Quickened Spell and the Blade cantrips are your friend here. (Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. The modified True Strike in One D&D.) A Quickened Blade cantrip means you can cast it twice in one turn. Or a spell and a cantrip. Or the dodge action and a cantrip or spell. You can see we've got flexibility here - you can mix and match your spells, offensive bread and butter, and a defensive playstyle. It's important to moderate your Sorcery Points, but you can convert spells into them. This is an option I always thought was weak until I actually played it out.

We can do some quick maths to demonstrate that it's not as bad an option as it looks: (Going with Quickened Spell used on a Cantrip, so that we're burning no more resources than the 2 Sorcery Points gained from converting the slot.)
- Taking Scorching Ray as an example, and assuming the same bonus to hit for melee Blade cantrip and Scorching Ray. (For simplicity.) With the same accuracy, we can cancel it out and essentially ignore it, at least for averages calculations.
- Scorching Ray deals 6d6 damage, an average of 21. With a Rapier, at level 5 Green-Flame Blade deals 1d8 (rapier) + 1d8 (cantrip) + dex (assume 4) = 13. Much less. But if you can trigger the cantrips rider, you deal an extra 1d8 + cha (assume 3) = 7.5 damage, for a total of 20.5. Broadly comparable, sometimes better depending on the situation. (Like advantage on a single roll from Silvery Barbs...)
- At level 11 (now assume 4 cha and 4 dex) this gets even better for Green-Flame Blade. We have (1d8+2d8+4) = 17.5 base damage, and (2d8+4) = 13 rider damage for a much higher total of 30.5. So at least on the damage front, the conversion isn't always a bad choice.

___
Looking at these together, we've got the makings of a gish.
- Dex based so that we can leverage magic for our defenses, using Blade cantrips for our resourceless damage, burning Sorcery Points and Lower Level slots to multiply our damage output.
- And we haven't even gotten into specific spells yet - Haste, Spirit Shroud, Greater Invisibility, Tasha's Otherworldly Guide - these are all great concentration spells to have active as a gish. Single target (but not self) options like Haste and Greater Invisibility can also be twinned - a Sorcerer gish is unique in that they can leverage their buffs for gishing and buffing other frontliners. (Just don't lose concentration on that twinned haste!)
- The benefits of a gish over a full spellcaster is that by having a strong resourceless attack routine (of cantrips, bolstered by a concentration spell that only needs to be cast once), you spend a lot fewer slots. So you've got much greater longevity, or higher nova potential if you instead burn all of this potential on casting and cantripping with Quickened Spell.

We've not even gone into subclasses here. I picked Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul because I'm a strong believer in bonus spells for Sorcerers (and my DM was quite generous with adapting the bonus lists to fit my character theme), but you could easily go Divine Soul to pick up some healing. All of the subclasses give you something you could leverage, honestly.

[Unoriginal]

For a Melee Sorcerer, Lightning Lure is worthwhile.

As others have noted, Draconic Sorcerer puts the class's HPs basically on par with a d8 HD class.

For the AC, having the draconic scales help, but racial armor proficiency (or 1rst level feat to replicate it) is better. Especially if it's coupled with racial weapon proficiency for a weapon that's good when two-handed (Githyanki and Dwarf are two examples).

I strongly recommand Quickened Metamagic, as it lets you do two melee attacks per turn: one with a Quickened spell, one with a regular attack action.

[Yspoch]

You could try the "Stone Sorcery" UA. I always wanted to try one.

You get:
* proficiency with shields, simple and martial weapons.
* smite spells
* +1 max hp per level
* 13+CON AC (as an action)
* reaction teleport&attack when your bonded party member is attacked (6th level).

You can fine-tune the gish-aspect quite well, either completely dump Charisma and max out DEX/CON or invest a bit into CHA if you also want to use attack spells.

You can choose any race/species.

Depending on house rules you may have to restrict combat spells to those with only verbal components.

Details are in the Unearthed Arcana: Sorcerer containing Favored Soul, Phoenix Sorcery, Sea Sorcery and Stone Sorcery.

Have fun!

[Sorinth]

In terms of tactics I would probably focus on Booming Blade + some sort of push or prone effect. Quicken spells as needed, in particular I think Flaming Sphere could be interesting here. If the enemy moves they take the BB damage if they stay put they take the flaming sphere damage, it also can help isolate an enemy from it's allies by adding that obstacle in the path.

Mountain Dwarf/Githyanki/Tortle all have a strong case in terms of races thanks to the AC.

In terms of subclass I think Clockwork Soul is your best bet. It can give you access to Armor of Agathys which would be quite useful and Bastion of Law is also pretty good and since you'll be mostly using BB you can afford to turn your higher level slots into sorcery points to recast BoL whenever it runs out/low.

But to your overall point yes it's a bit sad/strange that they don't have a melee focused subclass.

[Psyren]

Since you are using UA I can't really play

Actually, I said both 2014 5e and UA are fine build whichever you're more comfortable with.

Draconic for the constant AC boost seems useful, though I'm concerned you're saving a spell on Mage Armor but giving up a lot more spells known from one of the more prolific subclasses like Clockwork or Lunar.

What metamagic would you go with? Would it be worth quickening Booming Blade twice? What would you concentrate on most of the time - maybe Stoneskin? Haste?

I know it's not optimal and that draconic's health+AC is almost certainly better, but Wild Magic to get Tides of Chaos-advantage on scagtrip attacks would be "viable", especially if you're using slots on Shield/Absorb Elements often to proc surges that'd then give you ToC again.

I'd probably be looking at Quicken as my primary metamagic to slot in some 'normal' spells too.

So far as I know Tasha's Otherworldly Guise (6th) is the only sorcerer spell that'd net them extra attack, and with a 1 minute (concentration) duration and a 6th level slot requirement it's pretty pricey. Tenser's Transformation is Wizard only, because of course it is.

Ooo, I forgot Otherworldly Guise, thanks! This is the kind of thing I was hoping for when I made this thread!

I don't remember the Wild Magic table off the top of my head, is there anything there that might be particularly useful in melee if it comes up? (Fireballing your feet would be potent if you're surrounded, but also terrible...)

Playing one now and it works. Straight Drow Clockwork Soul Sorc.

*snip*

You know, I had forgotten Drow as an easy route into XBE, so thanks for that.

I'm going to assume that by UA Sorcerer you mean the 2024 5e (or One D&D) Sorc - otherwise Stone Sorcerer UA works pretty well out of the box.

I did but I'm happy to look at that too - got a link?

And Divine Soul -> Spirit Shroud is another great idea I hadn't considered!

[Amnestic]

I don't remember the Wild Magic table off the top of my head, is there anything there that might be particularly useful in melee if it comes up? (Fireballing your feet would be potent if you're surrounded, but also terrible...)

Not really. Some of them are decent enough (resistance to all damage, mirror image on self, bonus AC, all action spells are now bonus actions) but none that really specifically benefit melee over ranged.

I guess if you make sure to have a Piercing weapon then the "you and all creatures in 30ft gain vulnerability to piercing damage" is kind of a melee boost? But it also boosts crossbows so...

[KorvinStarmast]

Draconic for the constant AC boost seems useful, though I'm concerned you're saving a spell on Mage Armor but giving up a lot more spells known from one of the more prolific subclasses like Clockwork or Lunar.

If you make your armor class low enough your PC will get hit a lot and die.

What metamagic would you go with?

Depends on what I'm up against. Quickened and heightened strike me as useful: the latter due to wanting saves to be failed on stuff like Hold Monster later on.

What would you concentrate on most of the time - maybe Stoneskin? Haste?

Not interested in a one trick pony. Conc would be for slow, or haste, or web: depends on what enemy presents itself. Against a crowd of mooks Stone Skin is fine as a spell in Tier 2, but you need to survive to tier 2.

Another feat I'd want to consider for this build is Alert.
You can't be surprised
You go first/sooner more often.

If your goal with this build is "go toe to toe and tank it" the PC will likely die early. (Depends on the party it is in - in a six person party the action economy helps out a bit...). Being able to hit and move is a key part of making the PC able to fight in melee until the 2d and 3rd level spells come on line.

If you restrain someone in a web, you get advantage on the attack. (ZBut one example of how to leverage spells with melee attacks).

The tortle isn't standard anything, but it does start with a favorable AC..and no feat.

Another good idea is custom lineage, get the feat from that, and make sure that Rapier/martial weapon proficiency is chosen. Still go with draconic sorcerer, still boosts AC and HP.

[Psyren]

Not really. Some of them are decent enough (resistance to all damage, mirror image on self, bonus AC, all action spells are now bonus actions) but none that really specifically benefit melee over ranged.

I guess if you make sure to have a Piercing weapon then the "you and all creatures in 30ft gain vulnerability to piercing damage" is kind of a melee boost? But it also boosts crossbows so...

I only remembered one of those, so thanks

If you make your armor class low enough your PC will get hit a lot and die.

Yeah I get that; I was just wondering if Mage Armor is really any worse than Draconic's bonus since they both last for the whole adventuring day. Early on the 1st-level slot you save is useful, but at later levels you probably won't notice. (The extra HP are nice to have - but Clockwork gets an absorption ward and Armor of Agathys...)

Not interested in a one trick pony. Conc would be for slow, or haste, or web: depends on what enemy presents itself. Against a crowd of mooks Stone Skin is fine as a spell in Tier 2, but you need to survive to tier 2.

Haste/Slow make a lot of sense to me. Web feels like you would be more controller than gish but I could see it working too.

[RSP]

You know, I had forgotten Drow as an easy route into XBE, so thanks for that.

And don’t sleep on Erupting Earth either: it’s not as big an area as Fireball, but upcasts better and that non-Concentration area of diff terrain is very helpful in dictating enemy movement.

[Salmon343]

I did but I'm happy to look at that too - got a link?

And Divine Soul -> Spirit Shroud is another great idea I hadn't considered!

The article itself seems to have been removed from Wizards' servers, but they've still got the pdf link up: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/d...rUA020617s.pdf (this will link to a download)

Or you can find it in a less sketchy way via a direct Google search for Stone Sorcerer - the pdf link is one of the first few to pop up.

Divine Soul gives you a lot of nifty options. I've never used it as I'm too greedy - I build to a theme, and can never get enough spells as a Sorcerer to fit that theme and also be effective. (Hence Clockwork and Aberrant singing to me.) But if you're more flexible, the blending of the Cleric and Sorcerer spell lists give you a lot, and being able to apply metamagic to Cleric spells is amazing before even considering the gish potential.

Twinned Regenerate, Twinned Heal (we can see here why Twinned is being nerfed in the 2024 rulebooks), and from a gish perspective we can consider the evergreen Bless spell. Building a gish like this would net you a great Red Mage character (to steal Final Fantasy terminology). You've got great healing, damaging spells, buffs, and weapon attacks.

[Damon_Tor]

If you had to build a gishy sorcerer without multiclassing or dipping, how would you make it? What would you do to make them tough and martial enough to stand around in melee, and which feats and spells would you aim for, and when? Are there any magic items particularly suited to this concept?

Pretty much every other fullcaster has a subclass specifically designed for melee, but Sorcerer seems to have a design gap here, unless I'm missing something.

To add a tiny bit of spice, assume no racial armor proficiencies are allowed either (e.g. no Mountain Dwarf or MToF Githyanki.) You can still get armor and shield proficiencies via feats as normal. Natural armor races e.g. Tortle or Lizardfolk are both fine. Bonus points if you can somehow get multiple attacks per round (a bonus action attack counts for this even if it's limited in use like War Cleric's). Lastly, both the 5e and UA Sorcerer are fine as well.

I've actually played one.

He was based around the spell Shadow Blade, and using the twin and/or quicken metamagic to use booming blade 2-3 times per turn*. Very high damage potential, but is definitely a skirmisher, not a tank.

He was dex primary, and with draconic ancestry (effectively permanent mage armor) and the shield spell his AC was solid enough. He had the mobile feat: he would NOT stay in melee when avoidable, preferring to dart in, hit with his shadow blade then move back. My party had a very strong frontline which was important. Booming blade's punishment damage helped with this skirmishing as well.

If you can get the thaumaturgy cantrip (via feats or racial options) it works really nicely with shadow blade by dimming a ton of light sources with a single action or bonus action, for easy advantage in a lot of different scenarios.

If I were to build it again today with the new options at our disposal I would probably make him a clockwork sorcerer instead for Bastion of Law and access to more varied abjuration spells like Armor of Agathys.



*I made this character before booming blade's material component had a minimum value added to it, but most DMs would still rule that it works: RAI tables should note that Crawford confirmed that the change was not intended to impact shadow blade, and reminded us (for RAW tables) that the rules say if an object doesn't have a listed value, that means the value is determined by the DM, NOT that the value is zero. There are other threads on this topic so we don't need to go into it here.

[Witty Username]

The root of sorcerer as gish is pretty straightforward:
- Weapon cantrips
- mage armor and shield for defenses
- dex investment for AC

The big issue is between spell support and feature, sorcerer is probably the last place gish, since sorcerer doesn't really have any.

[Monster Manuel]

Not really. Some of them are decent enough (resistance to all damage, mirror image on self, bonus AC, all action spells are now bonus actions) but none that really specifically benefit melee over range.

I disagree, slightly. Yeah, few of the good results on the surge table directly benefit melee, that's true. BUT...many of the bad results are better when surrounded by enemies, rather than allies. Grease or Confusion or Fireball centered on the caster is bad because it hits you, but it helps if you impact the bad guys. Random lightning or necrotic blasts that hit people around you are not exactly making you a better gish, but with a gishy build that can mix it up in melee you are in a better place to use those surges to better effect.

I had a mad-bomber style tortle sorcerer that tried this tactic...never had a chance to play him for long as the game never got off the ground, but in theory, he was great...

[RSP]

The root of sorcerer as gish is pretty straightforward:
- Weapon cantrips
- mage armor and shield for defenses
- dex investment for AC

The big issue is between spell support and feature, sorcerer is probably the last place gish, since sorcerer doesn't really have any.

Depends what you want in your Gish: Bladesingers are fantastic, but the CS does it maybe as good, just in a different way.

It is tough to do a straight blasting Gish Sorc. But a melee tank plus some support, control, AoE spells, and utility is very doable.

My Sorc is our group’s “tank” and also ups the HP of the Monk and Rogue by 20. He can manage the battlefield a little through Erupting Earth (with some AoE thrown in), support with Faerie Fire, control a bit with Levitate, help with Counterspell or Dispel Magic.

He hasn’t used Animate Objects or Wall of Force, but there’s good options, depending on what you want to go with.

The big draw for CS is the AoA/BoL combo, which is fantastic when it works. At 9 I also picked up Fire Shield (mostly for the resistances), but haven’t had the chance to double that up with AoA yet.

[Kane0]

If you had to build a gishy sorcerer without multiclassing or dipping, how would you make it? What would you do to make them tough and martial enough to stand around in melee, and which feats and spells would you aim for, and when? Are there any magic items particularly suited to this concept?

Pretty much every other fullcaster has a subclass specifically designed for melee, but Sorcerer seems to have a design gap here, unless I'm missing something.

To add a tiny bit of spice, assume no racial armor proficiencies are allowed either (e.g. no Mountain Dwarf or MToF Githyanki.) You can still get armor and shield proficiencies via feats as normal. Natural armor races e.g. Tortle or Lizardfolk are both fine. Bonus points if you can somehow get multiple attacks per round (a bonus action attack counts for this even if it's limited in use like War Cleric's). Lastly, both the 5e and UA Sorcerer are fine as well.

Hm. Bit of a tall order but lets give it a try.

Race: Earth Genasi
Background: Rakdos Cultist
Class: Sorcerer
Lineage: UA Pyromancy (alternatively Draconic)
Stats: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 15
Metamagic: Empower, Twin
ASIs: Fey-Touched (+1 Cha, Bless), +2 Cha

Key spells:
C: None in particular (pick something that isn't fire and works in both melee and at range, like Mind Sliver, Frostbite or Acid Splash)
1st: Absorb Elements/Burning Hands, Mage Armor, Hellish Rebuke
2nd: Aganazzar's Scorcher, Tasha's Mind Whip, Mirror Image/BlindnessDeafness
3rd: Ashardalon's Stride, Fireball
4th: Fire Shield, Polymorph

Gameplan:
So this guy is obviously a pyromaniac, and the Int score should clue you in on how he goes about it. He walks up nice and close and burns things where he can watch in fine detail. He uses save or proximity based spells and effects, so he doesn't care about ranged nor weapon attacks (though there's no reason he can't pick up green-flame blade with a dagger, it's on-brand). He will probably be eating some attacks so bonus action Blade Ward and an above average Con score will help mitigate the incoming damage somewhat, while also keeping his reaction free to use on Hellish Rebuke which also triggers Heart of Fire for a neat little synergy on thorns tactics (if you live long enough you can swap to fire shield and Pyromancer's Fury). This guy will be at his best cycling in for an injured teammate halfway through combat rather than rushing in straight away, try to keep at the edges like a skirmisher to get sneaky angles on AoEs and flaming strides, though Fireball is your classic opening shot (and again if you live long enough you can just fireball your own position while surrounded). Empower eekees out some more efficiency from your big-dice spells and Twin can be used to double up on your buffs/debuffs for those times you need to fight smarter and not harder, but you might just want to burn those sorc points on more Hellish Rebukes if you feel like you can take the hits.

In a situation where there are fire resistant immune enemies he still has a non-fire cantrip, Bless and Polymorph as uses for concentration as well as some debuffs like Blindness/Deafness or Tasha's Mind Whip to remain useful. But don't you dare ask for any utility spells from this guy, he's a pre-Tasha's bloodline and has no spells known for luxuries like that.

This is the kind of character that would really appreciate sources of THP and AC from allies. Expect to hear him begging for an Aid spell on most days, and may actually take Inspiring Leader over that extra Charisma in the mid levels if nobody else is handing out THP.

[DracoKnight]

Might I point you to the Stone Sorcerer, if you’re using UA content???? It’s a little out-dated and needs some polish, but it also gives you basically everything you could want from a Sorcerer Gish and is a semi-decent update of the 4e Sword Mage to 5e.

EDIT: I responded before I finished reading and found other people suggesting this sorcerer. I’ll take that as confirmation I was right to recommend it, rather than being sad I wasn’t first to recommend it.

https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/d...rUA020617s.pdf

[Mastikator]

I'd get mountain dwarf for the medium armor.
My sorcerer origins would probably be divine, aberrant or clockwork.
I'd pick up CC and melee spells, I wouldn't use actual weapons.

Since I HAVE to be melee I think vampiric touch would finally be justified.

I'd like to pick up warcaster with this character, so that I can make concentration saves with advantage and replace my opportunity attacks with melee spells like shocking grasp (or hold person, for the memes)

[Psyren]

For the AC, having the draconic scales help, but racial armor proficiency (or 1rst level feat to replicate it) is better. Especially if it's coupled with racial weapon proficiency for a weapon that's good when two-handed (Githyanki and Dwarf are two examples).

Mountain Dwarf/Githyanki/Tortle all have a strong case in terms of races thanks to the AC.

I'd get mountain dwarf for the medium armor.

Gentle reminder that I covered these in the OP

Divine Soul gives you a lot of nifty options. I've never used it as I'm too greedy - I build to a theme, and can never get enough spells as a Sorcerer to fit that theme and also be effective. (Hence Clockwork and Aberrant singing to me.) But if you're more flexible, the blending of the Cleric and Sorcerer spell lists give you a lot, and being able to apply metamagic to Cleric spells is amazing before even considering the gish potential.

Twinned Regenerate, Twinned Heal (we can see here why Twinned is being nerfed in the 2024 rulebooks), and from a gish perspective we can consider the evergreen Bless spell. Building a gish like this would net you a great Red Mage character (to steal Final Fantasy terminology). You've got great healing, damaging spells, buffs, and weapon attacks.

Divine Soul is a great callout. Are there any cleric spells that are particularly suited to gishing, like Tenser's Transformation is for wizards and Otherworldly Guise are for sorcerer?

(Pity they can't grab Druid spells, I'd go for Guardian of Nature so fast...)

[Salmon343]

Divine Soul is a great callout. Are there any cleric spells that are particularly suited to gishing, like Tenser's Transformation is for wizards and Otherworldly Guise are for sorcerer?

(Pity they can't grab Druid spells, I'd go for Guardian of Nature so fast...)

Guardian of Nature would be great! What could've been...

On the Cleric list, the stuff that sticks out to me are:
(1) Bless - A great buff spells, for saves and attack rolls on multiple creatures. A worthy use of concentration.
(1) Shield of Faith - If you plan on doing some early level dodge tanking, this is a great concentration buff to have up. Bonus points for being twinnable.
(2) Aid - A friend of mine playing a cleric opened my eyes to how great a buff spell this is. They also opened my eyes to the trick of extending it at the end of the day, if you have a spare high level slot and Extended Spell metamagic.
(3) Spirit Guardians - Great if you're facing a ton of enemies. Great for a cleric, even better for a gish - you already planned on being in melee, anyway
(3) Spirit Shroud - This is a great damage buffing spell, more-so when upcast at higher levels. (At its current level I'd put Haste and Spirit Guardians above it.) The ability to slow is neat, and stopping healing is amazing in the right situation. That one addition has saved my Paladin's life in tricky fights. For this you need to be sure you're using your bonus actions for attacks too, it's not worth it if it's only procced once a turn.
(4) Death Ward - Nice to have up if you plan on facing a tough foe. Twinnable.
(4) Freedom of Movement - A good defensive spell, if you've got the spells known to spare. Twinnable.
(5) Summon Celestial - It's extra action economy, a little bit of healing, tanking or tank supporting in Defender form, and better yet - rideable. Due to the way it upcasts, you probably want to be casting it at 6th and 8th only.
Edit: (5) Holy Weapon - This is pretty much the same as Spirit Shroud. It'd take Spirit Shroud over it, but if you've got the spells known it's nice to have for the blinded AOE it also gives. It also lasts up to an hour, which is great for a dungeon.
(6) Heal - I'm separating out healing spells as they're just generally good to have. However, most heals are good for getting people back up - as a frontliner, that's likely to be you. (Though being able to do it yourself is great for flexibility.) Damage dealers are best served dealing more damage, but Heal is good enough to cast as a heal on the frontlines, and have it not be a waste of a turn. It's twinnable too, which is insane.
(7) Regenerate - Constant healing - this'll get you back up if you go down. Twinnable!
(8) Holy Aura - The ultimate party defense spell. Seriously, this can turn TPKs to curbstomps from it's defensive potential.
(9) Mass Heal - It's heal but stronger, better, and on more targets. The flexibility of Wish is great, but the sheer power of getting your party from near death to max (and then some!) cannot be denied.

General healing spells are great to take. Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration. As you can twin Healing Word, you don't really need Mass Healing Word - best to save the spell known.
Note that Distant Metamagic has a nice niche in being able to make the Restoration spells ranged.

[RSP]

(2) Aid - A friend of mine playing a cleric opened my eyes to how great a buff spell this is. They also opened my eyes to the trick of extending it at the end of the day, if you have a spare high level slot and Extended Spell metamagic.

Other oft overlooked aspects of Aid (Divine Soul or CS):

- it can be used as a mass healing word as it gives 5 HPs to 3 characters within 30’. A second level spell to bring back 3 party mates at range? Yes please.

- it is the rare spell that can bring someone back from Max HP drain. So if your teammate gets dropped with 0 max HP, it is (maybe the only way?) to get them back up and fighting.

Great spell.

[Salmon343]

Other oft overlooked aspects of Aid (Divine Soul or CS):

- it can be used as a mass healing word as it gives 5 HPs to 3 characters within 30’. A second level spell to bring back 3 party mates at range? Yes please.

- it is the rare spell that can bring someone back from Max HP drain. So if your teammate gets dropped with 0 max HP, it is (maybe the only way?) to get them back up and fighting.

Great spell.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that! It's truly the gift that keeps on giving.

[Inquisitor]

A few other add ons to what I started:

Spell, 2d level: Misty Step
Spell: 3d level, Slow. (-2 AC to enemy, enemy only gets one attack, not multiples).
Spell, 4th level: Freedom of Movement
Spell; Steel Wind Strike - oops, sorry, only Ranger and Wizard

Feat: Warcaster at 4 or 8. Keep concentration spells up. (Like web) better.

Again, this is gish, not Tank Mage.

I like the idea of a skirmisher, and I think Mobile + Booming Blade is probably the best answer to the question posed. Pair that with a race that improves mobility: flying, climbing, and/or increased distance, and you're more likely to be able to pull this off regularly.

I'd be interested to know if you guys would permit Twinning BB? Sounds like Crawford has said no, but that doesn't always dictate what people are actually doing.

[Mastikator]

Gentle reminder that I covered these in the OP

Perhaps UA draconic (blue) sorcerer will fix the AC issue then. AC 18 from having 20 charisma easily solves the issue of AC. I'd grab UA goliath and take the tough feat as my first level feat. With 16 CON it would be 12 HP at level 1, adding 10 per level. (using fixed HP and point buy)
Flaming sphere + shocking grasp comes online at level 3. With 32 HP and 16 AC, having shield and stone's endurance as a reaction.
At level 5 I'll grab vampiric touch since I have to be in melee
At level 6 shocking grasp will probably be worth quickening due to the +charisma damage
At level 7 fire shield (transmuted to lightning damage, but fire/cold resistance) OR polymorph.

Does standing in melee and casting chain lightning count as gish? Is it only gish if you're using a weapon?

[RSP]

Does standing in melee and casting chain lightning count as gish? Is it only gish if you're using a weapon?

Generally speaking, Gish is “melee weapon ability+casting ability”. Not sure if OP is intending something else, but Gish typically isn’t just a melee caster.

[tokek]

I’m not sure if it’s Gish enough but I’m playing a goblin moonchild sorcerer with booming blade and armor of agathys.

Use the damage reduction from the runes to keep the armor of agathys up and doing its killing work. So it’s a thorns build.

We did serious goblin on goblin action with the goblin revolushun and it worked brilliantly. Sorcerer dives into melee casting armor of agathys while shouting about if they strike him the glorious Revolution will only get stronger. Cue many dead goblins while he used his runes to mitigate the damage. Lots of dead goblins.

Very mediocre mage armor AC, booming blade and disengage rather than multiple attacks. But as a melee skirmisher it’s held up surprisingly well so far.