OOTS #1299 - The Discussion Thread

[Elkad]

In London on 21st June we get 16H40 of daylight and on 21st December only 6H55. I'd be happiest if someone found a way to float us towards the equator down the Atlantic for the winter.

As a pre-teen, a 16 hour day, a couple hours of twilight, and "be home when the street lights come on" during summer break was glorious. (Washington state, USA in my case - at 48°N) You could roll out of the house on your bike at 5am, meet your friends who did the same, and not be home till nearly midnight, not having interacted with an adult for the entirety. (carefully scrounge food about 2pm at the house of whoever's parents were both at work that day).

But changing the start and end times with DST wouldn't change the duration.

[Provengreil]

Tricky business if he does, though. If he promises to defend the area against Team Evil, could he be trusted? Or would he give them all the information for vengeance, and join them if possible?

Too many possibilities to say for sure.

However, him surrendering gives the narrative options in several arcs:

Serini fixing past mistakes, and making new choices when faced with the same problems.
Durkon and Roy actually negotiating with hostiles.
Vaarsuvious and their stunt with the dragons.
Belkar's development, especially if Calder takes out Bloodfeast or, Twelve forbid, Mr. Scruffy before surrender.

Furthermore, if his surrender includes an exit or if he just flatly escapes, he likely runs into TE and continues to contribute that way. Either he strains the power struggle between Xykon and Redcloak, or maybe even manages to contribute to the MitD somehow.

Comparatively, him dying in combat really only states that the order can tackle big threats (already covered if he surrenders/runs anyway) and if Xykon comes across his corpse, maybe a zombification. But he's already done the zombie dragon thing, he doesn't like recycling tricks.

[Peelee]

Having everyone on a team or crew that works in tandem is still important, but if you are not a train company, having everyone working according to a single clock in New Delhi is no longer necessary.

Of course not! Everyone works according a single clock at the Greenwich Royal Observatory.

I say, leave the clock on Standard Time, or GMT, or whatever, and allow companies to decide when their work-day starts.

I'm sorry to be the one to disillusion you, but companies have been able to decide when their work day starts for quite some time now. And they (like your Montana example) currently seem to not care about whether it's DST or not.

[gerryq]

I was concerned then. I emailed Rich and sent a letter. Radio silence. Time for a different approach.

@Heroic Lich: Rich’s Comment on stress wasn’t related to Durkon. It was a comment from 2013 in which he claimed “you reveal are who you are under stress” to which he qualified “regardless of what the majority feels”. Roy revealed he felt Elan didn’t count. He shouldn’t be allowed to take that back because it gives the employers reading the comic an excuse. And Roy has proven he can’t be better first by not adjusting the meeting and then by choosing Minrah over Elan. Roy doesn’t deserve to be leader.

Elan doesn’t want to be leader because Elan has been conditioned by his training and employment to herald the “great hero” even if said hero is mean to him like Sir Francois was and Roy continues to be by failing to put procedures in place. It’s no coincidence all of Elan’s greatest achievements occur when he is AWAY from Roy or when Roy is incapacitated. Tarquin got that. Tarquin understood that all Elan needed was the confidence and he could do wonderful things. But yet we’re supposed to view HIM as the bad guy as opposed to the one who doesn’t think Elan counts?

@ozmar: United Kingdom.

Tarquin probably has a proper workplace relations tribunal too. He'd want master-slave relations to be streamlined.

[gerryq]

If the Calder phase ends soon with his demise, only two factors could be affected:

1. A giant Tyrannousurus (can it be shrinked?) that otherwise can't leave the room.
2. Serini perhaps trusting the Order even more than before?

... and so, I don't see this as more than an appropriate level random encounter...
What narrative purpose do you see in it so far? if none, then Calder isn't over yet?

I just hope this isn't where Belkar bites it...

[Shining Wrath]

Of course not! Everyone works according a single clock at the Greenwich Royal Observatory.



I'm sorry to be the one to disillusion you, but companies have been able to decide when their work day starts for quite some time now. And they (like your Montana example) currently seem to not care about whether it's DST or not.

Quibble: the actual master clock for planet earth is a merge of over 100 atomic clocks, and that merging is done by BIPM - Bureau Internationale de Poids et Measures, en Paris. That's right -
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME IS THE FAULT OF THE FRENCH! Sacre bleu!

[Lumix19]

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I'm going to take this as a sign that the Order stands a very good chance of beating Team Evil now. If it wasn't for Oona I'd say the Order would be almost guaranteed a win.

[Kardwill]

DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME IS THE FAULT OF THE FRENCH! Sacre bleu!

Mwahahaha! All according to plan!

[Space Sorceress]

... [Xykon] doesn't like recycling tricks.

"Only two things matter: force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide.

... In any battle, there's always a level of force against which no tactics can succeed." - Xykon, Black Mage extrodinaire

[Peelee]

Quibble: the actual master clock for planet earth is a merge of over 100 atomic clocks, and that merging is done by BIPM - Bureau Internationale de Poids et Measures, en Paris.

For accuracy, sure, but we don't measure plus or minus hours by Paris Mean Time. We keep accuracy based on atomic clocks, but we work off the GMT clock in London.

Which may as well be Paris, really.

XDDDDDDDDDDDD

eyes watering

thanks

I'm half Austrian, and i greatly enjoy the European cultural practice of knocking all European countries at every opportunity.

[The MunchKING]

Sacre bleu!

Your Cheese is Sacred??


Is this that "Holy cheese" people keep telling me the Swiss have? :P :P

[Space Sorceress]

I'm half Austrian, and i greatly enjoy the European cultural practice of knocking all European countries at every opportunity.

Oh I thought it was just the British who did that (those *******s)

I for one am glad it's equal-opportunity discrimination

[Shining Wrath]

My understanding as an American is that European nations hate their neighbors, like the next country over; e.g., the French hate the Germans, like the Poles.

[Unoriginal]

Your Cheese is Sacred??

The "bleu" is an euphemistic swear word. Like "heck" or "dang" in English.

Is this that "Holy cheese" people keep telling me the Swiss have? :P :P

As a Swiss, I can confirm we have that. We call that "regular, basic cheese".

My understanding as an American is that European nations hate their neighbors, like the next country over; e.g., the French hate the Germans, like the Poles.

Oh nah, we European (geographically) hate everyone, it's just in "nested doll" fashion.

Person A hates Person B from the next village over, A & B are united in hate of C from the next valley over, ABC are united in hate of D from the next region over, ABCD are united in hate of E from the next country over, ABCDE are united in hate of F from two countries over, etc.

[alceryes]

Oh nah, we European (geographically) hate everyone, it's just in "nested doll" fashion.
Person A hates Person B from the next village over, A & B are united in hate of C from the next valley over, ABC are united in hate of D from the next region over, ABCD are united in hate of E from the next country over, ABCDE are united in hate of F from two countries over, etc.

I'd hate to be Z when this hate train comes 'round the corner.


Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. EPIC strip!
I loved the apparent switcharoo in #1298. Elan being Belkar and Belkar being Elan.

[KorvinStarmast]

His attention span does not allow that

I think that this is the issue which got sand into someone's craw: the infantilization of a male who is (or who has developed into) a swashbuckling hero.
Also suspect that the complainant doesn't care for the image at the top of the current page of Haley doing the swoop/kiss move on Elan.

This is D&D. Given the choice, you boost strengths to infallibility, not weaknesses to mediocrity.
Like this

Particularly on a forum heavily populated by opitimizers.

BurlewContact, you may want to start a new thread and lay out your analysis of the comic more thoroughly. Make a clear argument, link comics that support your premises, and suggest what ought to be done. People may agree if they understand what you're arguing for.

Good suggestion.

But there's also another factor: Bloodfeast isn't wild. He was trained by the Empire of Blood and may well be carrying a nonstandard stat block for his creature type. He almost certainly has improved grab and a pretty good strength score, and it wouldn't change his size, but some of the other stuff in there might be different in a way that's helping him.

Good thought, I had not considered that.

OOTS use child labor, have a convicted mass murderer in their midst, a non-convicted (albeit repentant) genocidal mage, and don't even get me started on the sexual harassment violations.

Best to stop there.

I don't understand how the takes "Elan is very capable and is the only one of the Order deserving to be a leader"
and
"Elan depends on others to make him do hard things or chew hard things to little pieces so he can digest them" are coming up simultaneously in the same argument.
Because the second argument is exactly what "they should've found a way to include Elan in a meeting against his wishes" essentially is.

"Deserves to be the leader" is a failed premise from the get go, in terms of what leadership itself entails.
Elan used his own initiative to fight the tough lady frost giant when Roy was getting his butt kicked: first, he healed Roy in a cool fashion, and then he disabled the frost giant using a bard spell. (Mind you, he of course began by daydreaming and almost blowing the whole battle).

Suggesting the Order should've used his magic just to make him feel included, even though it would puts everyone in greater danger is just... bad; pretty sure that would be actually criminal in a real-life employment situation.

It might even get the manager fired to so badly employ his/her assets.

I predict Calder dies, but comes back undead and allied to Xykon.

It's been done, with the Silver Dragon. I don't think that will happen.

It is better to don a blindfold than to curse the brightness.

Indeed.

Especially since it's more than likely Calder will NOT surrender on his own volition this time.

I read Calder as intelligent. He might recognize a losing battle in progress, and choose "survival" as his best option.

That's the literal name of Sunny's creature type, and Calder isn't allowed to call them their species' name because lawyers.

Yes, per strip 32.

He probably doesn’t know Sunny’s name, but that’s likely just because he never bothered to ask.

Correct. They have not been properly introduced. (I also doubt Calder cares what Sunny's name is).

Haley picked up Minrah because Roy told her to do so. And He specifically asked Minrah to cast Protection From Evil, which is not a Bard Spell.

And now we will hear the complaint that Roy is micromanaging his team ...

You may judge or critique the work by any standard you wish, and you may do so publicly. If you are or own a venue where works of art are displayed, published, or sold, you may choose which works you will sponsor. What you may not do is approach an artist with demands to include or exclude elements so that the work confirms to your ideals. Any laws which allow or encourage this behavior are wrong and should be stricken from the books.

Whole post was good, thanks.

And Calder gets to learn how it feels to be Extremeinated!

Which is the best part, since we've been waiting for this event - the return of Bloodfeast - for a few hundred strips.

[ozmar]

Reasonable accommodation for Elan would be not requiring him to attend meetings where he would not want to contribute...

Could I get my manager to give me reasonable accommodation like this?

-Ozmar the Sick-of-Meetings

[bunsen_h]

I guess it depends on your sensitivity, but I think "you minion" would actually be less demeaning.

From the point of view of strict practicality, if Calder had stuck to a one- or two-word term ("slave", "minion") he might have been able to get out a command in the second panel.

Personally I think Calder’s going to die here. Considering what happened to him last time he surrendered I don’t think he’d do that again.

Heck, I honestly wouldn’t blame him for that. Even for an Evil bastard like him, being frozen but aware for decades is a nasty fate.

Do we know for sure that he was aware for decades? Page 1295 implied that he didn't know how long he'd been stuck there. Though it would be challenging to keep track of time, under the circumstances, if he'd been conscious-but-contained for that long.

They have not been properly introduced. (I also doubt Calder cares what Sunny's name is).

"It isn't etiquette to cut any one you've been introduced to." -- Through the Looking-Glass, Lewis Carroll

[Faldrath]

Before the thread was derailed, I had said that I thought that Roy might try to negotiate with Calder again if the dragon submitted. But then someone mentioned that this would be the perfect time for Serini to show what an epic rogue can do... and given that Serini did say she wanted to kill Calder before, I think she might take the opportunity for a sneak attack here - maybe even as Roy tries to talk to Calder.

[ozmar]

Do you work with the Jones, Rodriguez Legal Partnership, LLC? Or are you an independent? If the latter, I will recommend you to the Stark family concerning a hostile work environment issue with their employer.

Independent practice, but I definitely think you have a good case against Stark!

-Maester Ozmar, Order of the Copper Chain

[Tzardok]

Oh nah, we European (geographically) hate everyone, it's just in "nested doll" fashion.

Person A hates Person B from the next village over, A & B are united in hate of C from the next valley over, ABC are united in hate of D from the next region over, ABCD are united in hate of E from the next country over, ABCDE are united in hate of F from two countries over, etc.

And everybody hates the French.

[Provengreil]

Before the thread was derailed, I had said that I thought that Roy might try to negotiate with Calder again if the dragon submitted. But then someone mentioned that this would be the perfect time for Serini to show what an epic rogue can do... and given that Serini did say she wanted to kill Calder before, I think she might take the opportunity for a sneak attack here - maybe even as Roy tries to talk to Calder.

Honestly, I don't see it. A dual wield sneak attack monster might have some points to make here, but Serini has leaned hard into deception and poisons and the like. She can maker her presence felt but it's not likely to change anyhting.

And everybody hates the French.

Except that one guy from The Patriot. He's cool.

[Unoriginal]

I read Calder as intelligent. He might recognize a losing battle in progress, and choose "survival" as his best option.

He is intelligent, but also prideful, angry and the last time he surrendered ended up in a decade-long nightmare that he declared prefering getting killed than experiencing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Calder goes "kill me and let's be done with it" and/or Serini enthusiastically going "kill him and let's be done with it" too, and then Roy says "no" and give Calder a chance to talk it out without anyone charging at another with an axe.

[arimareiji]

Oh nah, we European (geographically) hate everyone, it's just in "nested doll" fashion.

Person A hates Person B from the next village over, A & B are united in hate of C from the next valley over, ABC are united in hate of D from the next region over, ABCD are united in hate of E from the next country over, ABCDE are united in hate of F from two countries over, etc.

So do Americans, we just do it in our own unique gaslighty fashion. "National Brotherhood Week" by legendary snarktastic piano comedian Tom Lehrer from half a century ago:

🎶 But during
National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-One-Another-hood* Week
Be nice to people who are inferior** to you
It's only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year

_{* - If you get to see a video such as the Copenhagen concert, he adds a deliciously-insincere smile to this line
** - And to this line, he parodies a bigot looking down on someone}

(For the record, he recently made all of his work public domain.)

Edit to add:

Could I get my manager to give me reasonable accommodation like this?

-Ozmar the Sick-of-Meetings

If only. The hours and hours of meetings talking about how to be more productive will keep expanding until productivity improves. (0_o)

[Mordar]

I don't think regenerate would help against aging. A true resurection can recreate from scratch the entire body of someone who died centuries ago, and yet it won't work on someone who died from old age. So, lifespan in D&D sounds more like a "lifeforce/soul" situation, rather than a biology problem

But does resurrection rebuild from scratch? I think it effectively just restores the condition of the body that it was just before death...so if your body is about to give out just based on degradation of systems (not pathology, poison or trauma), resurrection would just bring you right back to the moment before your body gave out and then it gives out again.

Aging can be considered in part a degradation of system components based on imperfect regeneration of those components, damage to non-refreshed components, and loss of function. Perfect cellular regeneration would correct some of these issues, and refreshing components that normally cannot be refreshed (like teeth, some neurons, etc) beats these down...and prevents or delays loss of function.

So True Rez brings you back to body condition at the time of death...regeneration rebuilds each individual component before death occurs to optimum function...within the limits of what it can manage.

So my pre-theory is that Troll systems minus regeneration might be functional for 20-40 years, but with regen it is 3x-5x higher.

- M

[Precure]

I don't hate anyone.

[bunsen_h]

I don't hate anyone.

Tom Lehrer: "I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!"

EDIT:

So do Americans, we just do it in our own unique gaslighty fashion. "National Brotherhood Week" by legendary snarktastic piano comedian Tom Lehrer from half a century ago:
(For the record, he recently made all of his work public domain.)

His own website has lyrics, sheet music, and so on.

[Peelee]

Oh nah, we European (geographically) hate everyone, it's just in "nested doll" fashion.

I always got the impression it was more like fraternal hate. Europeans can make fun of all other Europeans, but they'll all go for the Americans if they try to edge in, for example.

And everybody hates the French.

That's where I fail. I quite like the French.

So do Americans, we just do it in our own unique gaslighty fashion.

I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne Yakov Smirnoff:
"In every country, they make fun of city. In U.S. you make fun of Cleveland. In Russia, we make fun of Cleveland."

[Fish]

So, would adding Troll-ish regeneration extend, shorten or have no impact on a halfling lifespan?

You would need to compare lifespans with a halfling without regeneration who had sustained the same injuries.

This is called a con-troll group.

I just hope this isn't where Belkar bites it...

Of course not.

Belkar is going to ride the dinosaur into the disabled stasis circle, dragging Calder with them, and get frozen in place when the circle reboots. Thus, Belkar draws his last breath ever and has no more birthday cake.

[Kofiman]

Did you make a fresh account containing the author's name just to accuse him of criminal advocacy over letting a lighthearted manchild not attend a meeting that put much more serious characters to sleep? And then say that his current course of action is informed by missing information about the team member that he skipped the meeting with, observing those same capabilities in action during play?

{scrubbed}

Notice how an important argument like:

"Level one spell that always works"

was ignored.

In addition, the first post did not present an argument, simply picking the desired topic of conversation "Inclusion! Inclusion! Inclusion!" Instead of making an actual argument in favor of Greater Dispel Magic, such as 'It's a ranged spell, and would free up Haley's turn.'

{scrubbed} This is why there's no actual argument being made in favor of Greater Dispel Magic, {scrubbed}