Proper entourage for a Lich, facing tier 4 opponents?

[HoboKnight]

Allrighty,
I'm setting up a truly deadly encounter for my group (4x paladin, all different auras, 1x optimised ranged fighter), lvl 15. Lots of gear, more importantly, optimisation and smart play. Their opponent will be a Lich, which is laughable and meaningless, but let's change that.

Here's the story: Somewhere in the land, under a small temple, there is a necrotic leyline where undead may be rebuilt. This Lich has gathered five Demiliches (strong, but very degenerated in terms of powers and abilities) and Lich wants to turn them back into Liches. For this, he will visit a village next to the leyline and the temple, gather all the villagers, do a 12-hours lasting ritual under the temple which will end in sacrifice of all the villagers and reform Demi Liches into Liches. Guy expects problems - and big ones.

Lich has time to gather an entourage he deems sufficient to ward off all the divine troublemakers that will be notified of his opening of the leyline during 12-hour period (and I need an encounter that will PROBABLY not TPK an optimised lvl 15 party, but cause them a lot of trouble). What sort of monsters would fit this setup?

If it was just Death Knights, I'd say two groups of 6 Death Knights before party reaches the Lich and his Demiliches under the temple. But perhaps we could make a better roster? Party will have the time to observe an affected area and approach it when and how they want.

Thanks!

[gloryblaze]

If the lich knows they'll be facing paladins, they'd probably not want to lean too hard on Undead minions, since paladins excel at fighting the Undead. That means good adversaries would be monsters associated with arcane spellcasters that aren't Undead—so Constructs animated by magic and outsiders summoned by magic. In regards to that second category, the lich would probably want to avoid summoned Fiends for the same purpose they wouldn't want to use Undead—paladins excel at fighting Fiends. So some ideas might include:

-Iron golems, potentially supplemented by other, lesser golems
-Steel predators or retrievers
-Elementals, elemental myrmidons, or potentially even an elder elemental like a phoenix or elder tempest, bound by planar binding
-non-Fiend outsiders that have been summoned with gate: for example hierarch modrons from Mechanus, or Sorrowsworn or a balhannoth from the Shadowfell

[Oramac]

If the lich knows they'll be facing paladins, they'd probably not want to lean too hard on Undead minions

snip

I agree. Normally, I'd say Death Knights, but given the above, I'd go with the following:

- 1 Lich
- 2 Steel Predators
- 4 Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

According to 5e tools, the Lich by itself is deadly, but we know that's not really the case. The above is well beyond absurd, but given the party you have, I think it would be a solid encounter.

The Death's Head in particular should be quite interesting. They don't have a lot of HP, but with their reaction to reduce damage to zero, and Aura of Murder, they should make the encounter quite a bit more exciting. Especially if you get a lucky crit or two.

[GeneralVryth]

Continuing on the angle of non-undead if the Lich knows Paladins are coming, what about a group of Wizards/Sorcerers that are hoping to become liches themselves and willing to help protect the Lich in exchange for knowledge?

Also, if you players are smart and optimized I would be inclined to throw the book at them as long as it's thematically reasonable. Against those kinds of players I would tend to think you are more likely to underestimate their strength than overestimate their strength. If they win it's awesome, if they lose (without being totally wiped out), that aftermath can be interesting too.

[Skrum]

I think this is a perfect opportunity to get some Lair Actions - a powerful lich is performing a profane ritual. There's no way that doesn't have an ambient effect on the land.

Probably have two categories, one for when the party is making their way into the village, and one for combat.

Land Effects
- ethereal shades begin to attack the party: ghostly forms appear and disappear, reaching for them and draining their life force. Each character takes 6d6 necrotic damage. DC 19 Wisdom save for half
- local animals that have fallen under the sway of and empowered by dark energies attack the players (random encounter, and the animals all have Health Drain, forcing a Con save or max health is reduced)
- their senses are ensnared, and they begin to hallucinate. DC 19 Cha save or suffer disadvantage on initiative rolls (1 failure), disadvantage on ability checks (second failure), fall under the effect of Crown of Madness (third failure)

Some kind of encounter where the players find a group of sickened villagers would be good too.... Compel them to spend Lay on Hands.

I also strongly recommend incorporating a Dracolich or two in the Death Knight battle. They're undead but they've got a million hit points, a bad*** breath weapon, and the players will feel cool as hell when they inevitably smite the crap out of em.

I'll think of some cool combat Lair Actions later.... At work right now

[Mastikator]

A lich is a wizard so golems, cadaver collector can be used to supplement the hoards of undead minions. But an entourage may well be 40 wights.

[Rukelnikov]

The Lich could have a contingency of "If the ritual is stopped cast Invulnerability", with the group you are describing, they should be able to cast Dispel Magic, but it will be resource draining, and may require multiple attempts since they need to get a 19.

[Sigreid]

Succubi. Because if they can tempt the paladins into damnation, that's just funny.

[J-H]

How about some Slaad? I don't think Paladins are immune to the egg thing, so they'll eat actions if nothing else.

Also, anything with blindsight and some Fog Cloud spells.

[Unoriginal]

Allrighty,
I'm setting up a truly deadly encounter for my group (4x paladin, all different auras, 1x optimised ranged fighter), lvl 15. Lots of gear, more importantly, optimisation and smart play. Their opponent will be a Lich, which is laughable and meaningless, but let's change that.

Here's the story: Somewhere in the land, under a small temple, there is a necrotic leyline where undead may be rebuilt. This Lich has gathered five Demiliches (strong, but very degenerated in terms of powers and abilities) and Lich wants to turn them back into Liches. For this, he will visit a village next to the leyline and the temple, gather all the villagers, do a 12-hours lasting ritual under the temple which will end in sacrifice of all the villagers and reform Demi Liches into Liches. Guy expects problems - and big ones.

Lich has time to gather an entourage he deems sufficient to ward off all the divine troublemakers that will be notified of his opening of the leyline during 12-hour period (and I need an encounter that will PROBABLY not TPK an optimised lvl 15 party, but cause them a lot of trouble). What sort of monsters would fit this setup?

If it was just Death Knights, I'd say two groups of 6 Death Knights before party reaches the Lich and his Demiliches under the temple. But perhaps we could make a better roster? Party will have the time to observe an affected area and approach it when and how they want.

Thanks!

Four Fire Giant Dreadnoughts would be a good start.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Mercenaries, all Crystal Dragonborn: a Warlord, several Champions or other bruiser-types, a few Archers, and an Abjurer Wizard (opens with Wall of Force to block all but two from the fight). The Champions are using longswords instead of greatswords, they'll use two of their attacks to grapple and shove prone an opponent.

Include an underwater tunnel that they'll need to swim through. Several Hydras or similar creatures that won't suffer disadvantage for being underwater can fight them there.

[Oramac]

I also strongly recommend incorporating a Dracolich or two in the Death Knight battle. They're undead but they've got a million hit points, a bad*** breath weapon, and the players will feel cool as hell when they inevitably smite the crap out of em.

I do have to agree with this. Knowing there's a lot of paladins in the group, adding stuff for them to feel awesome smiting is a good idea. With that, I'd change my original idea to the following:

- 1 Lich
- 2 Death Knights (with buffed hp)
- 4 Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

The death knights let the paladins get their cool smites. The Death's Head of Bhall cause all kinds of issues. And the Lich is the Lich.

[HoboKnight]

Allrighty. A lot of great contributions. And i see fother clarifications are in order.

Place of conflict consists of roughly 3 locations: Village, Temple and underground (map https://ibb.co/k8r85Hw ). Lich must perform its ritual in location A. Meaning Lich + 5 demiliches. Below them is a "leyline" - gooey liquid with same stats as lava, except it does Necrotic damage.

The way I have it planned, villagers would be corraled onto platform A, guarded by perhaps 2 guards on each side to wait for the culmination of ritual to be consumed by the ritual. Additionally, Lich would post some guards around the temple.

Party will approach the village first, then advance to temple (probably).

Firepower:
My party handled this encounter all at once, no real problems:
6x Boar, 6x Maw Demon, 6x Bearded devil, 6x The Angry, 1x Marilith

And, separately, after long rest with 10 rounds of rest between them:

1st. wave: 12 gnolls, 12 dretches, 6x hyena, 3x hezrou
2nd wave: 3x marilith
3rd wave: 1x Yeenoghu itself
4th wave: 12x gnoll, 6x Flind
5th wave: 12x gnoll, 3x Mind Flayer Arcanist, 5x Flind

I am not THE WORST DM in terms of mechanics, so monsters were run semi-optimised, still, PCs had some healing powers left, quite a few smites left. 1 character dropped, but brought back instantly.

Just so we know the power we are dealing with.

Exact roster I am thinking of ATM:
- 1x Lich in the underground + 5 demiliches, villagers, guarded by 2 Iron Golems.
- around the temple: 2x Archmages (who want to become undead), 3x Steel predator, 3x Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

I think Crystal dragonborn are not NPC monsters? Just PC classes?
isnt Dracolich too smart to participate a s a Lichs's minion?

Thanks!

[Unoriginal]

Alright, how about that:

The Lich got a Purple Worm implanted with a big psi crystal chunk that allows them to give one order the Purple Worm must fulfill.

The order is: "get one of the adventurers a far away from the others as possible".

Because the Lich would know that fighting all those mighty combatants (most of them with auras) at once will end badly, but the Purple Worm has great options just to separate one from the rest.

If/when the Purple Worm is killed, the gem shatters and the Worm becomes undead. Now the difficulty is that it's a powerful entity that only desire the extermination of anything that is alive, so a PC couldn't just leave it be.

In general the Lich should aim to weaken and hinder the PCs as much as possible so that the minions can finish the job.

[HoboKnight]

Could a Purple worm be placed under mental control by RAW for 24 hours, barring Wish?

[GeneralVryth]

Allrighty. A lot of great contributions. And i see fother clarifications are in order.

Place of conflict consists of roughly 3 locations: Village, Temple and underground (map https://ibb.co/k8r85Hw ). Lich must perform its ritual in location A. Meaning Lich + 5 demiliches. Below them is a "leyline" - gooey liquid with same stats as lava, except it does Necrotic damage.

The way I have it planned, villagers would be corraled onto platform A, guarded by perhaps 2 guards on each side to wait for the culmination of ritual to be consumed by the ritual. Additionally, Lich would post some guards around the temple.

Party will approach the village first, then advance to temple (probably).

Firepower:
My party handled this encounter all at once, no real problems:
6x Boar, 6x Maw Demon, 6x Bearded devil, 6x The Angry, 1x Marilith

And, separately, after long rest with 10 rounds of rest between them:

1st. wave: 12 gnolls, 12 dretches, 6x hyena, 3x hezrou
2nd wave: 3x marilith
3rd wave: 1x Yeenoghu itself
4th wave: 12x gnoll, 6x Flind
5th wave: 12x gnoll, 3x Mind Flayer Arcanist, 5x Flind

I am not THE WORST DM in terms of mechanics, so monsters were run semi-optimised, still, PCs had some healing powers left, quite a few smites left. 1 character dropped, but brought back instantly.

Just so we know the power we are dealing with.

Exact roster I am thinking of ATM:
- 1x Lich in the underground + 5 demiliches, villagers, guarded by 2 Iron Golems.
- around the temple: 2x Archmages (who want to become undead), 3x Steel predator, 3x Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

I think Crystal dragonborn are not NPC monsters? Just PC classes?
isnt Dracolich too smart to participate a s a Lichs's minion?

Thanks!

You could say the same thing about the Archmages, the Lich and Dracolich could have come to some kind of deal, just like the Archmages. if you go with the Dracolich (plus the 2 Archmage Necromancers, it may be worth giving them the Necromancer school bonuses as a side note), the next question is what are they trying to do and how would they go about doing it?

I could easily imagine both Archmages being tasked with securing the temples, so they are probably going to be prepared with spells to slow and block passage, along with more normal combat spells (and invulnerability if a great 9th level spell for NPCs to keep them in the fight with completely screwing the players). I would also imagine they have some kind of retinue are those the Steel Predators and Death's Head? Or is worth throwing in a handful of amped up wights or ghasts as cannon fodder.

The Dracolich meanwhile could presumably be overseeing whatever forces/traps are in the village proper ready to address any threat as it comes up, plus being able to use its mobility to stay alive and use hit and run tactics.

Essentially beyond the basic scenario of the Lich bringing back the demiliches, he has brought on allies to help deal with the adventures trying to stop him. Once you figure out what those key allies are the next questions become how would they try and stop the adventures/protect the Lich?

[Unoriginal]

Could a Purple worm be placed under mental control by RAW for 24 hours, barring Wish?

An Intellect Devourer could eat its brain and take over its body, if it was incapacitated first.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think Crystal dragonborn are not NPC monsters? Just PC classes?

Check the Monster Manual, Appendix B: Nonplayer Characters:
Racial Traits. You can add racial traits to an NPC. For example, a halfling druid might have a speed of 25 feet and the Lucky trait. Adding racial traits to an NPC doesn’t alter its challenge rating. For more on racial traits, see the Player’s Handbook.

The NPCs I mentioned are 'any humanoid' so you can make them any humanoid race and give them that race's features (but not ability score increases). Crystal Dragonborn are a variety of the PHB Dragonborn race that's resistant to radiant damage.

[HoboKnight]

Allrighty. I'm thinking this might be the final setup. Do you guys think it's ok, given all the info?

Exact roster I am thinking of ATM:
- 1x Lich in the underground + 5 demiliches, villagers, guarded by 2 Iron Golems.
- around the temple: 1x Dracolich, patrolling the sky, 1x Archmage (who want to become undead), 3x Death Knight, 3x Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

This gives the party some juicy smites.

Also @Biffoniacus_Furiou thank you! This knowledge will be useful for many other encounters!

[Unoriginal]

Allrighty. I'm thinking this might be the final setup. Do you guys think it's ok, given all the info?

Exact roster I am thinking of ATM:
- 1x Lich in the underground + 5 demiliches, villagers, guarded by 2 Iron Golems.
- around the temple: 1x Dracolich, patrolling the sky, 1x Archmage (who want to become undead), 3x Death Knight, 3x Death's Head of Bhaal (Descent to Avernus)

This gives the party some juicy smites.

Also @Biffoniacus_Furiou thank you! This knowledge will be useful for many other encounters!

I think adding 3 Skull Lords would be a worthwhile addition.

A Skull Lord is part sorcerer, part warrior, true, but they're also part rogue. So you can have them stay hidden (maybe each with two Assassin NPCs as minions), observe the situation, and act when the right time present itself.

[Oramac]

I think adding 3 Skull Lords would be a worthwhile addition.

A Skull Lord is part sorcerer, part warrior, true, but they're also part rogue. So you can have them stay hidden (maybe each with two Assassin NPCs as minions), observe the situation, and act when the right time present itself.

Or not act, as the situation demands. This is a good idea to have in your back pocket if you get mid-session and determine that the encounter is too easy. Just have these guys show up on round 3 or 4, and boom. Harder fight with some fresh opponents.

[starwolf]

To pull from a recent Drakkenheim live play: Iron golem with an anti-magic field.

[Marcloure]

My best suggestion is: put a second spellcaster. A fight against two spellcasters is vastly different and more engaging than against only one. Perhaps an Abjurer or another misc caster from Volos, perhaps something else.

[Zuras]

Most of them are melee, not ranged, so you could just have a bunch of special zombies charged up with necrotic energy from the leyline. If every zombie in a massive zombie horde explodes for 3d6 necrotic (con save for half) when taken out, you should be able to chew into their HP. Use the CR 5 greater zombies, not the basic ones.

Instead of (or in addition to) a Death Knight, why not throw in a Ghost Warlord? Same stats as a Warlord NPC, except it’s non-corporeal undead and can possess any corporeal undead of INT 6 or below like a ghost can possess a humanoid, and jumps to the nearest undead within 30’ whenever its host body dies. The Warlord legendary actions (giving an ally an attack with advantage using their reaction) will make the other enemies more threatening but the body- jumping will make it resistant to an alpha strike by the party. Give it a Necrotic Aura that works like a Remorhaz’ fire damage (2d6 necrotic damage every time you hit it when within 5’) and you have something they’re excited when they finally kill it.

[Alexander Atoz]

I would caution you to be careful regarding the demiliches. Their howl can be devastating, and using multiple demiliches at once...?
I'd be scared to use three demiliches together, even by themselves and against any conceivable party. (From your original post, I thought the demiliches were going to be too corrupted to fight as demiliches. That they would be plot NPCs, not combatants. A single demilich you might get away with, but I wouldn't suggest using multiple.)

[Nidgit]

I'm a fan of the Boneclaw- it's an ambusher with some fun teleports and quick regeneration so it can keep coming back to annoy the party. Certainly not strong enough to be a challenge itself, but a great option to toss into a fight if it's going too easy for the PCs.

[HoboKnight]

Hey guys,
a lot of great suggestions here, but I am in a bit of a bind here. Problem is, CR is really diffucult at these levels for me and most helpful for me is an "entire package" of enemies party should face that is challenging for them, but it is not a TPK. I've already mentioned party power level, I'll just add some more stats for clarification:
- 4x paladin
- average AC 22
- average HP 120
- average to-hit +10
- average damage per turn: 80 magical/radiant (with divine smites)
- average save +10 (INT saves excluded)
1x optimised ranged fighter:
- similar stats, 4 attacks per round, +10 to-hit, 20 dmg per attack = 80 dmg magical

Encounter:
2 locations:
- dungeon
- area just outside of a dungeon, guarded by monsters (some great suggestions so far)

So:
dungeon:
- should have 1x Lich (no Lair actions)
- guards of captured villagers (2 monsters?)
- X number of Demiliches

area outside of a dungeon:
- i think 2 archmages would be cool for diversity of encounter (Forcecage, Finger of Death, etc.)
- X amount of specified monsters

If anyone feels like giving an exact suggestion of "entire package" (dungeon + area outside of a dungeon with monsters listed) I'd really appreciate it.

PCs will approach the village, so they will have tactical advantage of selecting time and way of tactical approach.

Thanks!

[GeneralVryth]

There is no real good answer to your question. Your characters can smoke just about anything they get close enough to attack. Of all of the named foes so far they are dropping at least 2 of them in a round, probably more.

On the other hand both Archmagi could have Meteor Swarm prepared and if they see the party coming from a mile off, they drop ~140 damage on each party member even on successful saves, which is probably game over. Same thing is true if they can get a successful Forcecage/Sickening Radiance combo off and the party lacks teleportation. And that's before even involving any other opponents.

So your at rocket tag depending on how you play your enemies. If you play the enemies smart and viciously you should probably replace 1 on the Archmagi with something else (I like the Dracolich idea). The important thing here is you then probably can't just straight up kill the party without response if you are playing the enemies intelligently (which you should, though stay away from Simulacram and Wish).

With the above in mind it can actually be:

Encounter:
4ish locations in order:
- a long way off, warning shot
- greater surrounding area
- area just outside of a dungeon, guarded by monsters (some great suggestions so far)
- dungeon

Warning shot:
If the party approaches obviously from a long way off, drop a meteor swarm on their heads (or maybe off to the side enough so you don't catch the entire party in case everyone fails their save). That puts the party on notice to be careful and down a large chunk of hp, it also empties the 9th level slot of the Archmage taking the scariest things off the board. The party may need to short rest at this point (so be careful of too tight of time pressures if you do this).

Surrounding Area:
- 1 Dracolich patroling
- X amount of cannon fodder

This encounter should be avoidable if they PCs are smart and can stay stealthy and it should be obvious it's there with the Dracolich flying around. The Meteor Swarm can serve as a flare to point out major intruders to the Dracolich, so if the party is hit they should probably see the Dracolich coming there and depending on how much damage they took are hopefully looking to get away from the spot they were at until they recover.

If the party doesn't get Meteor'd, then it becomes a matter of avoiding some of the cannon fodder units (I would imagine some slightly amped Wights or Ghasts here, nothing scary, the scary thing should be drawing the attention of the Dracolich when they are not ready), while they make their way to the temple. If they make a big ruckus they should be rewarded with a meeting with a Dracolich.

Temple area:
- 1 archmage (Forcecage, Finger of Death, etc.)
- X amount of specified monsters

If the party didn't get Meteor'd then the first thing the Archamge is probably going to want to do is cast Invulnerability. Otherwise they are dead instantly once the party is in weapon range. From there they would likely cast non concentration spells to delay, debuff, and damage the party while the stronger mooks help. Invulnerability is also nice as a spell because it's not something you can beat with a sword, the party needs to be clever (or get a good ambush so the Archmage can't cast the spell, which they should if they know the party is close before the battle starts). My recommendation is just looking through the Wizard spell for fun non concentration spells you think it would make sense for the Archmage to have prepared (and maybe 1 good concentration spell of 8th level or below in case they do use Meteor swarm and can't cast Invulnerability, or the duration runs out).

dungeon:
- should have 1x Lich (no Lair actions)
- guards of captured villagers (2 monsters?)
- X number of Demiliches

Everything but the Lich is pretty straightforward to kill. And with some luck the party can kill most of the Demiliches in 1 round. How deadly this encounter is, will depend a lot on how the Lich is played and how the other encounters went. If the party has had it rough and you still want them to win (or not get killed if they are unwilling to retreat) you need a reason for the Lich to not be able to engage the party right away, like being locked in the ritual until the demiliches are killed. That gives the PCs a chance to get the drop on the Lich. If they forgo the smart options, I would expect the Lich to start dropping PCs with a variety of spells (any of Power Word Kill, Shapechange, or another Invulnerability followed by lots of blasting is going to make them rethink their life choices).


Unfortunately, no where in the above is any suggestion of whether or not that is too much. It's hugely dependent on how you play the NPCs and the PCs choices (which gives you room to adjust the difficulty on the fly if you really need to). The Archmage I am describing is not a CR 12 opponent either. Spell list is extremely impactful in caster CR, especially when 9th level spells on involved. But, surviving a Meteor Swarm, evading or killing a Dracolich, killing a potentially unkillable Archmage, followed by his Lich boss and his cadre of Demiliches should be feel pretty epic every step of the way.

[Unoriginal]

dungeon:

1x Lich (no Lair actions)
2x Iron Golems
2x Fire Giant Dreadnoughts
2x Flame Skulls
3x Demi Liches

area outside of a dungeon:

2x Archmages
3x Gladiators
1x Frost Giant Everlasting One
3x Skull Lords (staying hidden until the right time)
6x Assassins (assisting the Skull Lords)

[Kenny_Snoggins]

Depends. Do they have flying mounts? They should, at tier 4. A common joke at our tier 4 mega OP table is the Bard just killing people with gravity. Have a lot of vertical relief, give the liche a draconic shard and enjoy yeeting the paladins off cliffs into lava or whatever with telekinesis and extra action economy. Could maybe use Nystul's Magical Aura pre-cast so a lot of the anti-undead features for paladins don't work but that relies on how you interpret a pretty mangled spell description and wouldn't be a great idea to bust out if that spell hasn't already been worked through earlier in the campaign.