OOTS #1300 - The Discussion Thread

[Lumus]

My question is: does the anti-magic ray still work on him if he is inside Calder's stomach? Let's do this Ant-Man/Thanos style!

If it doesn't, a Greater Dispel Magic can still reach, right?

[Mithrandir]

I think the cracks in the floor Caldir's back made on impact have damaged the stasis circle enough that it's now non-functional.

But the cracks aren't along the magic lines.

[Shining Wrath]

And all told, Calder isn't even looking that much worse for the wear. Not good for the party. He looks hungry for dino nuggets, too.

Looks to me like Roy's inflicted a serious wound and there are maybe a dozen smaller ones.

EDIT: I don't know if Calder got an accurate head count on the Order when he mind-bent Sunny. He may not be aware that he just sent Sunny to summon reinforcements. Because yeah, lay on hands followed by Sunny helping the paladins back into the fight is fairly likely.

[Tzardok]

My question is: does the anti-magic ray still work on him if he is inside Calder's stomach? Let's do this Ant-Man/Thanos style!

Spontanously I would say no. An antimagic field is described as an emanation (and a beholder's cone is described as working just like the field, except cone-shaped); that means a.o. that it can't go through barriers. If you have full cover, for example because a wall is between you and the beholder, the "line of effect" is disrupted and you remain unaffected. And a creature's stomach walls count. The antimagic cone would only affect devoured creatures if you shine it directly down Calder's throat.

If it doesn't, a Greater Dispel Magic can still reach, right?

Nope. To target something with a spell, you need to have "line of effect". Rule of thump: if you can't shoot an arrow at something, you can't target it with most spells.

[littlebum2002]

I wonder if Sunny can levitate the paladins with telekinesis

[ozmar]

I guess there are disadvantages to being shaped like a billiards ball!

-Ozmar the Pool Shark

[Kardwill]

But the cracks aren't along the magic lines.

They are? In the first panel of #1299, at least one of the cracks goes through both lines (And the point of impact looks like it was directly upon the inner line).

[Peelee]

Rule of thump

I've never heard this phrasing before, but I love it.

I wonder if Sunny can levitate the paladins with telekinesis

My view was that Sunny can levitate themself, and Sunny is big enough for a paladin to ride on top.

But, regardless, Sunny can almost certainly carry at least one.

[No good @ names]

Even if Calder ignores large reptile solidarity

I din’t know much about D&D, much less D&D Dragons or specifically Red Dragons, but everything I’ve seen about Calder so far is that Calder only cares about Calder

I feel like logically the paladins should just heal Sunny and rejoin the group, but narratively this feels like a reason to split them from the party. It is reaching the point where there are too many people to give focus to.

I’ve given up trying guess too much the next move, but I think if the Giant wanted to thin out some characters, well the big Red Dragon he’s already introduced would be a handy method.

Calder’s already taken Chekov’s dinosaur off the wall. If Bloodfeast dies in the next page, the whole Calder story will have already paid narrative dividends.

[Timy]

Yes, though that probably won't help much with being swallowed...

The good point is that Dragon don't have swallow whole (at least not in the SRD entries I just checked)!

and so it would need to go through all Bloodfeast HP with successive bite attacks :D

I know it sounds stupid but well... it's magic ^^

[Peelee]

The good point is that Dragon don't have swallow whole (at least not in the SRD entries I just checked)!

and so it would need to go through all Bloodfeast HP with successive bite attacks :D

I know it sounds stupid but well... it's magic ^^

Counterpoint.

[No good @ names]

Counterpoint.

So is that counterpoint a Silver Dragon’s victory?

[Tzardok]

The good point is that Dragon don't have swallow whole (at least not in the SRD entries I just checked)!

There's a feat for that in the Draconomicon.

I've never heard this phrasing before, but I love it.

Oops, sorry for the typo. That was a fully intentional reference to the German term for rule of thumb, "Faustregel" meaning rule of fist.

[Lord Torath]

The good point is that Dragon don't have swallow whole (at least not in the SRD entries I just checked)!

Black dragons appear to have it in OotS world, regardless of what the SRD does or does not say. I would suspect the other dragons have Swallow Whole as well.

[Timy]

Counterpoint.

Black dragons appear to have it in OotS world, regardless of what the SRD does or does not say. I would suspect the other dragons have Swallow Whole as well.

Sorry no luck there but I prefer to ignore the facts that oppose my theories !

[Wintermoot]

I think I see what's going to happen.

Sunny is going to convey O Chul and Lian into the battle, and Serini is going to learn that these Paladins are not quite as Lawful Stupid as Soon. This will enhance trust of the Order both in terms of "able to face Xykon" and also "Hey, these people aren't stupid".

Counter point:

The order and Sereni manage to beat down the dragon to near death. Calder, always trying to save his own skin, gasps out "I... I submit..."

Sereni: "Ha, Good try, but you don't have any paladins around to force us to agree this time!"

Soon and Lien (riding in on Sunny after healing her): "We have arrived!"

Sereni: "DAMMIT!"

[No good @ names]

Black dragons appear to have it in OotS world, regardless of what the SRD does or does not say. I would suspect the other dragons have Swallow Whole as well.

I imagine the Giant takes the pragmatic approach

-Jaws big enough?
-Stomach big enough?

If both yes, then ok. If one or both no, ok if it can be made into a good joke.

[pendell]

Counter point:

The order and Sereni manage to beat down the dragon to near death. Calder, always trying to save his own skin, gasps out "I... I submit..."

Sereni: "Ha, Good try, but you don't have any paladins around to force us to agree this time!"

Soon and Lien (riding in on Sunny after healing her): "We have arrived!"

Sereni: "DAMMIT!"

Why does everyone assume the Paladins will accept their surrender? Miko Miyazaki could seemingly get away with killing anyone , provided they pinged positive on Detect Evil. If they submit, then its time for a drumhead court martial followed by a swift execution.

I realize Miko was the wrong way to play a paladin in every way but she did stay a paladin right up to the point where she slew her non-evil liege lord in cold blood. The OOTs lawful good gods don't seem to mind as much the cold-blooded killing of an evil creature provided it really does ping on Detect Evil, which Calder certainly would.

Maybe the paladins will find some other way to neutralize the threat, or some other way to finesse the laws. But I can't believe they're so stupid as to leave such a dangerous threat alive and dangerous behind them while they prepare to confront Xykon the same day.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kardwill]

Why does everyone assume the Paladins will accept their surrender? Miko Miyazaki could seemingly get away with killing anyone , provided they pinged positive on Detect Evil. If they submit, then its time for a drumhead court martial followed by a swift execution.

I realize Miko was the wrong way to play a paladin in every way but she did stay a paladin right up to the point where she slew her non-evil liege lord in cold blood. The OOTs lawful good gods don't seem to mind as much the cold-blooded killing of an evil creature provided it really does ping on Detect Evil, which Calder certainly would.

Maybe the paladins will find some other way to neutralize the threat, or some other way to finesse the laws. But I can't believe they're so stupid as to leave such a dangerous threat alive and dangerous behind them while they prepare to confront Xykon the same day.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You'll note that @Wintermoot's joke does not require the paladin sparing Calder. Just Serini assuming they will do it. ^^

[Metastachydium]

My view was that Sunny can levitate themself, and Sunny is big enough for a paladin to ride on top.

But, regardless, Sunny can almost certainly carry at least one.

Yep.

Can they do healing on Sunny? I vaguely paladin laying on hands to heal, back when I was playing AD&D.

4. For DavidSh: Yes, Paladin's still have lay on hands as a class feature.

As well as actual healing spells in Lien's case, yes. So, unless Sunny is dead (which is a possibility I'm ready to exclude, even beyond how there's no X-eye visible), they will soon be more or less fine.

He shoots, he scores!
0. One wonders if Calder has racketball or handball as a hobby back in the day ...

I'm quite certain it's squash, actually. Fits a bored manager-type just fine too.

1. Love gnaw gnaw gnaw in the last panel.

Bloodfeast is the best of birdy-adjacent not-lizards!

2. Why is Sunny's eye closed as he bonks along on the floor? (Caution taught to him by Serini when his lens isn't in?)

(…)

7. Sunny appears to be unconscious in the second to last panel. Or is that still "eye closed due to no lens" caution?

My guess for 2 is "in pain and falling unconscious", and for 7, "actually unconscious". Do note how all the eyes are closed at that point.

Why does everyone assume the Paladins will accept their surrender? Miko Miyazaki could seemingly get away with killing anyone , provided they pinged positive on Detect Evil. If they submit, then its time for a drumhead court martial followed by a swift execution.

I realize Miko was the wrong way to play a paladin in every way but she did stay a paladin right up to the point where she slew her non-evil liege lord in cold blood. The OOTs lawful good gods don't seem to mind as much the cold-blooded killing of an evil creature provided it really does ping on Detect Evil, which Calder certainly would.

Maybe the paladins will find some other way to neutralize the threat, or some other way to finesse the laws. But I can't believe they're so stupid as to leave such a dangerous threat alive and dangerous behind them while they prepare to confront Xykon the same day.

That's likely a moot point given that Calder explicitly said he is not going to surrender again.

[Aidan]

2. Why is Sunny's eye closed as he bonks along on the floor? (Caution taught to him by Serini when his lens isn't in?)

I imagine if a solid chunk of my anatomy was a giant eyeball I may develop a very strong flinching mechanism so at least the first two shots of Sunny after getting hit he's probably involuntarily closing his eye, as seen by his furrowed brow. The following shots his brow isn't tensed so I think he has been knocked out at that point.

[Edward15]

Oh, boy, I foresee two actions Belkar will undertake:

1) He save Bloodfeast before he meets Calder's maw.

2) He will give Calder the mother of all stabbing frenzies for introducing Bloodfeast to his maw.

[Metastachydium]

Oh, boy, I foresee two actions Belkar will undertake:

1) He save Bloodfeast before he meets Calder's maw.

2) He will give Calder the mother of all stabbing frenzies for introducing Bloodfeast to his maw.

And at any rate, "stab! STAB! STABBITY-STAB!!" ensuing is quite a safe bet, generally speaking.

[The MunchKING]

My question is: does the anti-magic ray still work on him if he is inside Calder's stomach? Let's do this Ant-Man/Thanos style!

Soldi objects block the rays.

[Crusher]

Worth noting that Ancient Red Dragons (which Calder may or may not be) have a *boatload* of HP and it takes an enormous beating to put one down. Bloodfeast tanked Calder for a couple rounds, allowing the party to get Sunny back on their side and start piling up some damage.

The point being, the last couple rounds weren't so much "The Order is going to cruise now" as "The Order was actually in real trouble at the start and they needed the last couple rounds to even the odds (or a little more)". Even if the Order did (ballpark) 200-250 damage to Calder, the dragon is pretty dinged up but basically fine and not at all close to death. He was more surprised and wrong-footed by Bloodfeast, rather than panicked. Now that Sunny seems entirely out commission (for the moment), Calder likely has many more tricks up his sleeve and ample HP remaining while he uses them.

[Lumus]

Okay, new plan. We need Calder to swallow Sunny too.

[The MunchKING]

The antimagic cone would only affect devoured creatures if you shine it directly down Calder's throat.

Even then, you need one of those long probe-thingies, to get it down to the stomach, otherwise you'll just hit esophagus.

[fuschiawarrior]

He shoots, he scores!
2. Why is Sunny's eye closed as he bonks along on the floor? (Caution taught to him by Serini when his lens isn't in?)

Calder's tail whip caused a lot of damage to Sunny and it was enough to make them faint so I would guess Sunny closed their eye because of the pain.

But the cracks aren't along the magic lines.

Calder is inside the stasis circle and still moving so it's clear it won't trap anyone again.

But I can't believe they're so stupid as to leave such a dangerous threat alive and dangerous behind them while they prepare to confront Xykon the same day.

Agreed with everything else and this doesn't undermine you point but Roy expects that Monster Hollow holds Team Evil back for about three days.

[SlashDash]

The moment I saw Sunny on the floor with Minrah I thought that's a bad idea.


Either way, I'm still putting my money on Calder likely smashing a hole through the dungeon that Team Evil will just straight up walk through it instead of going through all of Sereni's traps.

Whether he bails or use some powerful AOE is left to be seen.

Of course, it's possible that Sunny is going to go all in and use his Disintegrate ability (he refused on the party) that might make a hole or something.



V is holding a potion so I assume they'll give it to Sunny.
The paladins can lay hands. I haven't followed the geekery thread of what level Lien is as a paladin and whether she has cure spells.

Other than that, I don't see much they can help in the actual combat. O-Chul doesn't have a mount. Razor isn't likely to be useful here. They don't have any of the bigger spells and their smite evil isn't as good as Soon's.

The only other way I think paladins can affect the combat is because Calder likely dropped attempting to dominate them due to Haley's bluff but might try to do that on the paladins if they show up?

[Wintermoot]

Okay, new plan. We need Calder to swallow Sunny too.

I don't know why, he swallowed that fly - perhaps he'll die