Baldur's Gate 3 III: No Plans for DLC Or A Fourth Thread

[LibraryOgre]

New Thread.

I've been taking a break from BG3 recently... I'm up to the House of Hope, but I just don't want to push on to it, so I'm stepping back until I get the itch again. Instead, I'm shooting people in the Commonwealth, because while the story is pretty horribly written, I like the game play... building settlements and sniping raiders.

However, I also have a desire to try something that seems like it would be utter madness...

My Astarion is an archer... crossbows, to be precise. Archery style, Sharpshooter feat... but what if, instead of a heavy crossbow, I had him dual-wield hand crossbows? Would that double sharpshooter?

[Eldonauran]

I've been taking a break from BG3 recently... I'm up to the House of Hope, but I just don't want to push on to it, so I'm stepping back until I get the itch again. Instead, I'm shooting people in the Commonwealth, because while the story is pretty horribly written, I like the game play... building settlements and sniping raiders.

If you are playing Fallout 4, I'd suggest looking to the Sim Settlement line of mods. It adds a HUGE amount of extra content and fairly robust settlement management systems.

However, I also have a desire to try something that seems like it would be utter madness...

My Astarion is an archer... crossbows, to be precise. Archery style, Sharpshooter feat... but what if, instead of a heavy crossbow, I had him dual-wield hand crossbows? Would that double sharpshooter?

If you mean, do you get +10 to damage with both the offhand and main hand attack? Then yes, I can personally verify. I'm making use of this in my Astarion Honor mode playthrough. Also, Spore Druid necrotic damage gets added too and you tend to keep more of your Temp HP when you aren't in melee.

[Errorname]

My Astarion is an archer... crossbows, to be precise. Archery style, Sharpshooter feat... but what if, instead of a heavy crossbow, I had him dual-wield hand crossbows? Would that double sharpshooter?

Offhand hand crossbow attacks do benefit from sharpshooter. I haven't done enough testing to figure out if it's fully the optimal build, but it's definitely a lot of fun.

[Psyren]

Alright, I think I see what the problem is here. I am functionally making three different arguments at the same time and not separating them clearly enough to prevent confusion. For the record:

1. Larian has the credibility to get basically any license they want. Game of Thrones was brought up alongside Star Wars as an example of a big name multimedia license they could get, not necessarily something I think they'd want to get or that I'd want them to make.
2. I think an ASOIAF CRPG is viable. I don't really want one, especially not from Larian but I have strong opinions about the setting and absolutely think it'd be viable source material for a CRPG despite the low magic setting.
3. What I personally want Larian to do for their next game. I would like them to take a crack at something outside of the stock medieval fantasy genre (this is why I don't want them to make an ASOIAF game, despite the lack of wizards and orcs it's still very classical fantasy). This is the reason I "reverted" to bringing up Fallout and Mass Effect in the post you're quoting, I'm using them to make a different point.

I never said a ASOIAF CRPG can't be viable. I said such a CRPG is likely to not get AAA interest because low-magic medieval settings are a niche within a niche, and that if Larian weren't an AAA studio before, they've certainly cleared that threshold now. That's all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with AA or indie games.

My Astarion is an archer... crossbows, to be precise. Archery style, Sharpshooter feat... but what if, instead of a heavy crossbow, I had him dual-wield hand crossbows? Would that double sharpshooter?

Yes, and it works this way in tabletop 5e as well.

[Anonymouswizard]

It's why I want to do an archery Fighter run at some point, I think six Sharpshooter attacks in round one would deal with a lot of Act 3 bosses.

But first I've got my current Durge Sorcerer run, and then probably a Shadowheart run where I act like a complete bastard and smooch Lae'zel

[Errorname]

I never said a ASOIAF CRPG can't be viable. I said such a CRPG is likely to not get AAA interest because low-magic medieval settings are a niche within a niche, and that if Larian weren't an AAA studio before, they've certainly cleared that threshold now. That's all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with AA or indie games.

I agree that I don't think Larian are going to do it, but this insistence that one of the biggest fantasy properties in the world is niche because it doesn't have wizards is amusing to me, especially since the stuff I think Larian would be more likely to pick up as licenses like less mainstream fantasy novels or abandoned CRPG franchises are pretty much objectively more niche

I certainly don't think "what if we took this popular fantasy brand and did in the format of this popular fantasy game" would be an impossible sell, the reasons that I think Larian wouldn't want to do a Game of Thrones would apply to most other big licensed properties regardless of how much magic they've got.

[Psyren]

I agree that I don't think Larian are going to do it, but this insistence that one of the biggest fantasy properties in the world is niche because it doesn't have wizards is amusing to me, especially since the stuff I think Larian would be more likely to pick up as licenses like less mainstream fantasy novels or abandoned CRPG franchises are pretty much objectively more niche.

I certainly don't think "what if we took this popular fantasy brand and did in the format of this popular fantasy game" would be an impossible sell, the reasons that I think Larian wouldn't want to do a Game of Thrones would apply to most other big licensed properties regardless of how much magic they've got.

The IP isn't niche; a low-magic medieval CRPG is niche. I'm bearish on the proposed genre/mechanics, not the setting.
I gave other examples in the previous thread of a ASOIAF tie-in that would be a surer bet.

[BRC]

The IP isn't niche; a low-magic medieval CRPG is niche. I'm bearish on the proposed genre/mechanics, not the setting.
I gave other examples in the previous thread of a ASOIAF tie-in that would be a surer bet.

I feel like you COULD make a good CRPG in the ASOIAF world...But it wouldn't be what people like in ASOIAF.


ASOIAF is a grand political epic. A CRPG (at least in the context of BG3) needs to have it's gameplay center on exploration and tactical combat with a small group of capable characters.

You could do an ASOIAF CRPG by focusing on a specific group like the Night's Watch or the Brotherhood Without Banners, and basically tell a smaller-scale story about a group of knights stuck deep into the trenches, but what people usually want out of ASOIAF is political machinations and grand strategy.

[Psyren]

I feel like you COULD make a good CRPG in the ASOIAF world...But it wouldn't be what people like in ASOIAF.


ASOIAF is a grand political epic. A CRPG (at least in the context of BG3) needs to have it's gameplay center on exploration and tactical combat with a small group of capable characters.

You could do an ASOIAF CRPG by focusing on a specific group like the Night's Watch or the Brotherhood Without Banners, and basically tell a smaller-scale story about a group of knights stuck deep into the trenches, but what people usually want out of ASOIAF is political machinations and grand strategy.

This is more or less my point. Though I think you're onto something with the Brotherhood, as they have a few supernatural members; the problem there is that their role in the show was butchered with the removal of Lady Stoneheart, so any game about them would need a new story drawn up.

[warty goblin]

I find it slightly funny that everybody is talking about a GoT cRPG like a theoretical exotic form of matter when it's an actual thing you can just go buy on Steam right now for $15. It's just fine, combat is a bit clunky but not unusually so for a Cyanide game, writing is honestly really good.

Anyway, the biggest structural problem for a standard RPG based on GoT is that the setting is intensely relational. All the characters are bound up in social and political organizations that pretty sharply define what they can do, what others think of them, and in particular family allegiance is enormously important. It's a world that is singularly poorly suited to a blank slate protagonist, a problem the existing game solves via a cool structure where you play two co-equal protagonists.

[Errorname]

You could do an ASOIAF CRPG by focusing on a specific group like the Night's Watch or the Brotherhood Without Banners, and basically tell a smaller-scale story about a group of knights stuck deep into the trenches, but what people usually want out of ASOIAF is political machinations and grand strategy.

Your best option would probably be to put your character in a Dunk & Egg sort of role. Travelling the country participating in tourneys and doing odd jobs for local lords while building connections to a larger conflict looming in the background.

Anyway, the biggest structural problem for a standard RPG based on GoT is that the setting is intensely relational. All the characters are bound up in social and political organizations that pretty sharply define what they can do, what others think of them, and in particular family allegiance is enormously important.

Yeah, that's a much bigger problem than the low magic. You'd have to either do a preset protagonist, write a massive amount of reactive text, or just have the PC be completely free from all the pressures and constraints that everyone else in the setting lives under, and none of those solutions are ideal.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, that's a much bigger problem than the low magic. You'd have to either do a preset protagonist, write a massive amount of reactive text, or just have the PC be completely free from all the pressures and constraints that everyone else in the setting lives under, and none of those solutions are ideal.

Preset protagonists are just fine, and pretty common in the wider universe of computer RPGs. In many ways I rather prefer them, as it makes the writing more natural and allows for more personal stakes. If the protagonist can be anybody, the stakes need to work for anybody, ranging from utterly to a raging blood psychopath. Hence lots of bland save the world stuff, because even the blood psychopath wants to not die. The stakes and ending of the GoT RPG on the other hand has about zero significance to anyone but the protagonists and a handful of NPCs, but are intense and have stuck in my head for years because they are perfectly rooted in those characters.

[Eldonauran]

It's why I want to do an archery Fighter run at some point, I think six Sharpshooter attacks in round one would deal with a lot of Act 3 bosses.

But first I've got my current Durge Sorcerer run, and then probably a Shadowheart run where I act like a complete bastard and smooch Lae'zel

If you want to machine gun hand crossbows, use a combination of Colege of Swords Bard 6 (extra attack + Ranged Slashing Flourish = 4 attacks with just your action) and Fighter 2 (Action surge = another 2 ranged attacks with Ranged Slashing Flourish), then add Haste and a Bonus action for another 2 attacks (or 3 if you have enough Bardic Inspiration left for another Ranged Slashing Flourish). Bloodlust Elixir can net you another action if you kill something in the middle of that barrage, which can be another 2 attacks (Honor mode is strict with extra attacks from Haste or haste-like effects). If you want to toss some levels of Rogue in there for Thief, you'll get another bonus action to shoot again, though I am more partial to Gloomstalker Ranger for that opening extra attack.

Personally, I like a combination of Bard6/Fighter4/Paladin2 (Swords/EldritchKnight/Vengenace). Give you enough feats for Sharpshooter and Ability Score Improvement, and 4th levels spells to fuel smites. Gives you three fighting styles (Two Weapons, Archery, and Defense respectively) and you can make use of Shield as a reaction. You can Weapon Bond your favorite melee weapon.

Another option (as mentioned above) is the Bard6/Ranger4/Paladin2 (Swords/Gloomstalker/Vengenace). That one will net you a 5th level spell, a bonus action hide, and nets you a free disguise self spell (so you can forgo/retrain it) from your bard list to make use of some race specific items in the game. You won't get the Action Surge of the fighter but... you don't really need it.

[Anonymouswizard]

I mean, on this run my archer is Astarion with a crossbow (probably ending up as Rogue 9/Ranger 3 with 18 DEX and Sharpshooter), and I don't actually want to use ridiculous game breaking combinations. Heck my current run is a pretty poorly built Wild Magic Sorcerer, although I still stand by both Careful and Heightened Spell (Twinned spell less so, I can't work out where to squeeze Haste in).

Next run I'm unsure about, because I'm planning to do an Origin run. I'll probably do some kind of archer in an 'intentionally no social skills' run.

[Spore]

Ah yes, my first tries with a Gale honor run.

"I'll pick the wizard and outsmart my enemies." I said. "I usually don't pick the wizard because the game becomes so easy because I am incredibly smart." I thought.

Rushing the fight and even succeeding in dropping the twohanded sword in the prologue and escaping the exploding ship.

I felt so damn smart.

Well I picked up Shadowheart and noticed Gale did not have his rested spells after the Nautiloid. Okay, I thought. At least Mage Armor is running.

"We will surely beat the Intellect Devourers. After all, my Gale has a good armor class now, so they will split their damage or go after the well armored Cleric then." was the final thought after a turn of two crits ending my first "honor" run after 15 minutes.

[diplomancer]

Ah yes, my first tries with a Gale honor run.

"I'll pick the wizard and outsmart my enemies." I said. "I usually don't pick the wizard because the game becomes so easy because I am incredibly smart." I thought.

Rushing the fight and even succeeding in dropping the twohanded sword in the prologue and escaping the exploding ship.

I felt so damn smart.

Well I picked up Shadowheart and noticed Gale did not have his rested spells after the Nautiloid. Okay, I thought. At least Mage Armor is running.

"We will surely beat the Intellect Devourers. After all, my Gale has a good armor class now, so they will split their damage or go after the well armored Cleric then." was the final thought after a turn of two crits ending my first "honor" run after 15 minutes.

I believe that is the most dangerous fight of the whole game. Not least because you're still getting the hang of it and are feeling cocky after the cake walks at the Nautiloid. I suggest starting any Honor Run as either a Barbarian or a Druid, you NEED survivability ar the beginning of the game. You can change your class completely later.

[Errorname]

I believe that is the most dangerous fight of the whole game. Not least because you're still getting the hang of it and are feeling cocky after the cake walks at the Nautiloid. I suggest starting any Honor Run as either a Barbarian or a Druid, you NEED survivability ar the beginning of the game. You can change your class completely later.

Eh, starting on a different class for the sake of literally one fight seems excessive. The Intellect Devourers are really dangerous because you have to deal with them before you recruit most of your starting party.

[Rodin]

Eh, starting on a different class for the sake of literally one fight seems excessive. The Intellect Devourers are really dangerous because you have to deal with them before you recruit most of your starting party.

The cost of starting as a different class is literally 100 gold. Compare that to the time cost of going through the entire tutorial multiple times until you don't get unlucky and...yeah, I can see why you would want to do that. My Honor mode run was with Karlach as PC and I still jumped up the side of the cliff so I could grab Gale and Lae'zel before fighting the Intellect Devourers.

The other hardest fight for me was the Githyanki scout party near the mountain pass. Closest I came to dying until I stupidly yelled insults at Gortash during the coronation because, well, Karlach.

[Corlindale]

I'm actually a bit relieved to see that people struggle with the Intellect Devourers, as I was feeling a bit silly about dying in literally the first non-tutorial fight on my first attempt at Honor mode a few days ago.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm actually a bit relieved to see that people struggle with the Intellect Devourers, as I was feeling a bit silly about dying in literally the first non-tutorial fight on my first attempt at Honor mode a few days ago.

I've died to them a ridiculous number of times on everything except Explorer, Intellect devourers are actually pretty strong (three times the health of the tutorial imps, each missing a third of that, with aatacks that can easily take half your hp). The optimal strategy seems to be trying to bait them into the fire and then doing everything you can to make then Dash instead of attack.

It doesn't help that 5e doesn't really come online until level 3, and BG3 is actually a llot better about keeping low level enemy damage low than the monster manual is (especially with spellcasters, who seem to ber mostly pegged to 'highest spell slot expected-1' but given infinite slots).

[Spore]

I believe that is the most dangerous fight of the whole game. Not least because you're still getting the hang of it and are feeling cocky after the cake walks at the Nautiloid. I suggest starting any Honor Run as either a Barbarian or a Druid, you NEED survivability ar the beginning of the game. You can change your class completely later.

I have yet to see a way to change an origin character's starting class. :D

I'm actually a bit relieved to see that people struggle with the Intellect Devourers, as I was feeling a bit silly about dying in literally the first non-tutorial fight on my first attempt at Honor mode a few days ago.

I mean outside of jokes, I see the difficulty. They are the non weakened variants in the game, and they STILL lack some qualities an actual CR 2 Intellect Devourer would have (resistance to damage, effectively doubling it HP pool, and not one but TWO abilities to crowd control: an intellect reduction that stuns you if you drop to zero as well as a controll effect on downed characters).

[Cikomyr2]

But you cannot "start as a druid or barbarian" if you play as Gale.

You start as a wizard, period.

[Spore]

But you cannot "start as a druid or barbarian" if you play as Gale.

You start as a wizard, period.

Agreed, but you start so close to Lv 2 that it feels like some sort of "try to skirt around the deadly fight as long as possible to at LEAST unlock a wizard subclass. Because boy howdy does it help.

Arcane Ward at least makes Gale die in two hits, Conjure Water plus Witch Bolt is nice, as is Portent. Experimental Alchemy technically doesnt CHANGE the options available for the fight but should at least turn your attention to potions. And you get two potions of speed, Shadowheart may be able to get into the Dark Crypt to loot more stuff.

And apparently if you kill Lae'zel you can recruit her earlier (by wasting a res scroll).

[LibraryOgre]

For a GoT CRPG, regardless of everything else, I'd say the time to strike on that is well past. Ten years ago? The show was at its peak, and there was a lot of hope for the books. But it's now been 13 years between books, and the series ending left a sour taste in a lot of mouths.

And I still haven't dragged myself back to BG3. I got really into settlement building in FO4... my Vault 88 is a thing of beauty, IMO. While the main story is utter nonsense, I do like exploring the Commonwealth and doing the job of the Minutemen.

EDIT: Oh, and while everyone says that the Warlock 5 extra attack stacks with other forms of extra attack, I have yet to see it.

[Anonymouswizard]

I mean, if there's any big properties primed for an RPG right now it's probably Star Wars, Star Trek*, and maybe one of the big recent anime. Potentially Marvel as well, but they're on a bit of a decline.

Honestly for Larian I'd say Star Trek is better than Star Wars, they already make games where you can poke and prod everything and Trek encourages you to build noncombat encounters around it. Make six Origins who fill various major roles on the ship, let custom characters be one of the 'rubber forehead' races, promote the PC to XO after the prologue and Captain after Act 1, and in early Act 2 introduce a bit character to cover the station a promoted Origin manned.

...not that it's likely, but I'd love to see it.

[Errorname]

I mean, if there's any big properties primed for an RPG right now it's probably Star Wars, Star Trek*, and maybe one of the big recent anime. Potentially Marvel as well, but they're on a bit of a decline.

Honestly these aren't exactly golden years for any big genre IP with the odd exception of Dune. A lot of franchises hit massive peaks in the '10s but we're in the period where the momentum is dwindling.

Honestly for Larian I'd say Star Trek is better than Star Wars, they already make games where you can poke and prod everything and Trek encourages you to build noncombat encounters around it. Make six Origins who fill various major roles on the ship, let custom characters be one of the 'rubber forehead' races, promote the PC to XO after the prologue and Captain after Act 1, and in early Act 2 introduce a bit character to cover the station a promoted Origin manned

I can see the vision, although I would say that for a Star Trek game what you really need to execute on is ship/crew management and naval combat. Away missions are a good idea, but I really think you want the Captain fantasy to be front and center.

[warty goblin]

I'd rather not an actual licensed Star Trek game at this point - again Larien is too inventive and in the astonishingly lucky position to not be beholden to outside interests and with a lot of playets willing to play whatever they make to squander that on franchise service* - but a Trek kinda sci-fi would play really well to their strengths.


*this isn't to say that videogames in established IPs are necessarily bad. I like quite a few of them quite a bit. But rather by construction they aren't particularly new, and particularly in this, the era of maximal fan rage, they have to mostly about faithfulness to the IP.

[Anonymouswizard]

Honestly these aren't exactly golden years for any big genre IP with the odd exception of Dune. A lot of franchises hit massive peaks in the '10s but we're in the period where the momentum is dwindling.

Fair, it's likely we'll see the next golden period In five years or so.

I can see the vision, although I would say that for a Star Trek game what you really need to execute on is ship/crew management and naval combat. Away missions are a good idea, but I really think you want the Captain fantasy to be front and center.

I mean, definitely have some sort of spaceship command, but I really do think spaceship systems should take a backseat to strange new worlds and races to interact with. The draw to a Star Trek RPG should be being thrust into situations and having a 4 o'clock meeting about them.

Well that and letting you put male part members in skants.

I'd rather not an actual licensed Star Trek game at this point - again Larien is too inventive and in the astonishingly lucky position to not be beholden to outside interests and with a lot of playets willing to play whatever they make to squander that on franchise service* - but a Trek kinda sci-fi would play really well to their strengths.

Honestly after all the arguing about a GoT RPG I wanted to shift discussion to something I think Larian would excel with.

But I would love it if they did a Trek style game. Ideally going back to their classless 'you've levelled up, now spend your skill points' system.

[Psyren]

Honestly these aren't exactly golden years for any big genre IP with the odd exception of Dune. A lot of franchises hit massive peaks in the '10s but we're in the period where the momentum is dwindling.

Eh, if the game is good enough people will show up. The D&D movie didn't pull in huge crowds, yet Baldur's Gate was a titanic blockbuster that very same year and pulled in scores of new players who barely knew anything about the underlying IP.

I can see the vision, although I would say that for a Star Trek game what you really need to execute on is ship/crew management and naval combat. Away missions are a good idea, but I really think you want the Captain fantasy to be front and center.

Rather than an RPG, I think a strategy game in the vein of FTL where you have to manage a ship's various systems (engines, weapons, shields, transporter, life support etc) and personnel through various deep space challenges like pirates, asteroids, rival factions and the like would be the way to go. Here again though, I'd say a AA or indie would suffice.

[t209]

So speaking of which, other than Undermountain or digital boardgames, Waterdeep seems to lack videogame adaptation.
Like Neverwinter, Icewind Dale, and especially Baldur’s Gate got one.