[PF1 Altered - Low Level Gestalt] Isekai Adventures

[AscarothD]

Which means I could grab two 1st level at-will spell like abilities (or one at 2nd) for four points and get two bonus class skills for the "final" point. Handy.

At-Will spell-like abilities are limited to Monstrous power level. As in 20+ RP races.

We can?

Think i missed it.

Yeah :) Although this character creation build seems strange, I have to get a good break down. It almost seems like it's a better deal to find a class that has a lot more class features and then choose not to take abilities to free up RSF for bonus feats etc.

Yes, you can choose from other player's rolls

Aslo, the system doesn't make sense, unless you are using spheres for spellcasting, in place of a spell pool. Paladins normally do not get spellcasting at 1st otherwise. So where are you pulling the RSF From to suddenly gains pellcasting in your example? for 4 RSF at level 1, but Paladins only have 3 abilities at 1st. Again, unless you start pulling from Spheres/Path of War for maneuvers also. Suddenly you could say you're a Paladin with Sphere Casting and Maneuver training for 5 RSF.

I feel like everyone should have a flat RSF per level to draw from and spend accordingly. Since it's gestalt, You can technically get 6-8 RSF per level to play with.

See how the Freelancer class plays out on the FFD20 site.

You get a set number of "job points" per level to pick class abilities, but you could technically double the amount as a gestalt build.

[Jack_Simth]

At-Will spell-like abilities are limited to Monstrous power level. As in 20+ RP races.

...
Missed that. Well, that's annoying.

Still, most people aren't even close to done with their sheets, so I have a bit of time to revamp.

[AscarothD]

...
Missed that. Well, that's annoying.

Still, most people aren't even close to done with their sheets, so I have a bit of time to revamp.

Yeah, that's where I am currently confused, how the GM is pulling extra "RFS" at early levels for class abilities that aren't available to level 1 paladins.

An example is I play in another game I am an Unchained Rogue - Eldritch Scoundrel, so I gain spellcasting, the archetype explains how I get the ability in trade for for base class abilities. It doesn't help that we don't have a set amount of RFS and I feel like I can go wild giving base classes extra features from base class pay 1 RFS to gain the benefit of an archetype at the same time. But how would I explain where that extra RFS came from.

[Benoojian]

At-Will spell-like abilities are limited to Monstrous power level. As in 20+ RP races.



Yeah :) Although this character creation build seems strange, I have to get a good break down. It almost seems like it's a better deal to find a class that has a lot more class features and then choose not to take abilities to free up RSF for bonus feats etc.




Aslo, the system doesn't make sense, unless you are using spheres for spellcasting, in place of a spell pool. Paladins normally do not get spellcasting at 1st otherwise. So where are you pulling the RSF From to suddenly gains pellcasting in your example? for 4 RSF at level 1, but Paladins only have 3 abilities at 1st. Again, unless you start pulling from Spheres/Path of War for maneuvers also. Suddenly you could say you're a Paladin with Sphere Casting and Maneuver training for 5 RSF.

I feel like everyone should have a flat RSF per level to draw from and spend accordingly. Since it's gestalt, You can technically get 6-8 RSF per level to play with.

See how the Freelancer class plays out on the FFD20 site.

You get a set number of "job points" per level to pick class abilities, but you could technically double the amount as a gestalt build.

From what I understood you can only pick up class features that the class can get from an archetype, so you can't just spend all your points on random bonus feats, only bonus feats the class gives somewhere (with the small exception of double granted feats).

Also Spellcasting is a special rule, it is worth 20 RFS, 1 per level, regardless of strength when you trade in. Then costs 20, 10, or 5 to buy back. This is a straight buff for Paladin and Ranger types. (the freelancer costs 165 JP vs 210 JP, hardly any difference despite the massive difference in power)

[AscarothD]

From what I understood you can only pick up class features that the class can get from an archetype, so you can't just spend all your points on random bonus feats, only bonus feats the class gives somewhere (with the small exception of double granted feats).

Also Spellcasting is a special rule, it is worth 20 RFS, 1 per level, regardless of strength when you trade in. Then costs 20, 10, or 5 to buy back. This is a straight buff for Paladin and Ranger types. (the freelancer costs 165 JP vs 210 JP, hardly any difference despite the massive difference in power)

Yeah it's a little confusing, because he's got 3 archetypes that two of them normally cannot stack going on that uses up his 20 RFS.

Because yeah. A base paladin would only be considered a low-caster 5 RFS and nothing more. (without dipping into spheres/pow)

So technically Gestalt Paladin|Ranger will give the player up to 40 RFS for Magic Spheres, Maneuvers and Combat Talents.

I am only asking, because I want to understand the boundaries. Not actually intending to "break" the game by min maxing.

I do have a special request though, because in the past I applied for a Gestalt game on another site, but didn't get picked. It was Monster Class Progression || Paladin. Wonder if that could still be an option, since the GM did say 3rd party is allowed.

Astral Deva || Paladin Knight Disciple, and I had given up feats for Combat Talents, but I would probably go with RFS to be Adept at martial adept 3/4.

[Benoojian]

Ok, So is the Spellcasting flat out free for classes that gain spellcasting? Paladin who can only cast up to 4th level spells starting at 4th, they get 20 RFS, and can choose to spend some of the RFS for other things like feats, if they choose not start spells at 1st - 3rd?

Was the GM's example a sphere caster? I noticed one of the Archetypes on the Spheres says they are a low caster, but can he choose to be a High Caster without any requirements?

No, there's only Spheres of Might, no Spheres of Power.

RSF is always based on base class not on any archetype. So the 1/2 progression spellcasting grants 20RSF, even if you choose NOT to buy it back at 4th level. this is the same amount for any "System" progression, ie magic, Psionics, Spheres of Might, Manuevers. So yes, partial progression classes get a big boost.

I don't think you could make a Paladin a full caster, because there isn't an archetype to do it, Not sure there's ways to change the progression speed outside of Spheres. One of the answers implies that you can always buy SoM progression even if your class doesn't normally get it but I'd like a clarification from DM on that

[AscarothD]

No, there's only Spheres of Might, no Spheres of Power.

RSF is always based on base class not on any archetype. So the 1/2 progression spellcasting grants 20RSF, even if you choose NOT to buy it back at 4th level. this is the same amount for any "System" progression, ie magic, Psionics, Spheres of Might, Manuevers. So yes, partial progression classes get a big boost.

I don't think you could make a Paladin a full caster, because there isn't an archetype to do it, Not sure there's ways to change the progression speed outside of Spheres. One of the answers implies that you can always buy SoM progression even if your class doesn't normally get it but I'd like a clarification from DM on that

Again, why I am confused, because this was his breakdown.

For my custom Paladin I want him to have the 1/2 Spellcasting system (As Base Paladin, 5 RSF), Proficient Practicioner (As Dirt Spattered Angel, 5 RSF) and 3/4 Martial Maneuvers (As Knight Disciple, 10 RSF) for a total of 20 RSF.

Martial Maneuver RFS cost can be payed as follows: 1 RSF at levels 1st or 2nd, 1 RSF at levels 3rd or 4th, 1 RSF at levels 5th or 6th, and so on until payed all 10 RSF cost
Spellcasting RFS costs can be payed as follows: 1 RSF at leves 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, 1 RSF at leves 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th, and so on until payed all 5 RSF cost, same for Proficient Practiotioner


So in essence he's getting 2 additional boons for free literally.

That's saying a Paladin || Ranger can get double the bonus for doing the same for Ranger also. 40 RFS?

As stated, I am just trying to get an understanding on why it's so generous for low spellcasters 4th/6th level vs a high level 9th spellcaster. I see the tradeoff, and it is a nice boon., but as above. Paladin Ranger would get 40 RFS to play with instead if someone chose to go that route.

That was also why I had assumed he was using spheres of power, because he paid for his paladin spellcasting at 1st character level.

Finally GM Mentioned you cannot save slots/RFS for higher levels. Yet it costs 2 RFS to get a class ability from a prestige class for example. So like if I want Hide in Plain Sight. I would be Ranger 6, but they only get 1 RFS ability plus spellcasting. Since he's going to be a low spellcaster, he has the extra RFS he can apply to the HiPS at that level. But again, no holding RFS... So if he doesn't use the RFS at character creation, I feel like it's gone.
Although as the game title states. It is Gestalt, so I guess you could pull 1 RFS from the other class as well to get your 2.

5. No, this will prevent someone holding all RSF to buy only high level features in later class levels. You should buy features or buy feats.

Finally.. If a Paladin or Ranger decided to go Spell-Less, would they pretty much have 1 additional FSP per class level to account for the Spellcasting he chose to give up?

Too bad, looks like Fighter gets the short end of the stick.

[Arael666]

I was reading the big 16 again and noticed that it seems to be intentional that paladins (and similar classes) get 20 total RFS for it's casting and only spend 5 RSF to get it back, though I would still like clarification on this matter.

- All systems like Spellcasting, Martial maneuvers, Spheres, etc are transformed to 1 RFS per level (For a total of 20 RFS at lv 20)
- All systems with Full proression costs 20 RSF (Like Wizard spellcasting), systems with 3/4 progression costs 10 RSF (like Bard's Spellcasting) and 1/2 progresion systems costs 5 RSF (like Paladin's Spellcasting)

In the meantime, here's a bunch of questions:

1 - Would the stalker's Combat Insight be a staged or single feature?
2 - Would the stalker's dodge bonus be part of it's chassis or would it grant Regular Feature Slots? if grants, is it a staged or single feature?
3 - Would the stalker's Dual Strike be a staged or single feature?
4 - Would I be able to select Wilder as one of the classes and simply not buy the Psychic Enervation?
5 - Would the wilder's Wild Surge, Elude Attack and Surging Ephoria be staged or single features?
6 - Can we buy a RFS with a feat?
7 - Would an Aurora Soul's Mystic Combat be a staged or single feature?
8 - Some prestige classes grant class features that give benefits based on the prestige class level, like the awakened blade's Situational Awareness, how should we deal with these features? I supose we're not using character level, since that would be quite a big diference in most cases.
9 - Do we need to spend RFS to buy features that do not replace other features? For example, the Psychic Warrior Psionic Armor from the Meditant Archetype replaces all armor and shield proficiencies normally gained by a psychic warrior.

[Arael666]

Rolling for stats:

Spoiler: Set 1

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(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[8]
(4d6b3)[16]

Spoiler: Set 2

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(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[17]
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(4d6b3)[14]
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(4d6b3)[15]

Spoiler: Set 3

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(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[9]
(4d6b3)[15]
(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[13]

Spoiler: Set 4

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(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[8]
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(4d6b3)[17]

Spoiler: Set 5

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(4d6b3)[13]
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[16]
(4d6b3)[10]
(4d6b3)[9]
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Spoiler: Set 6

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(4d6b3)[18]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[6]
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(4d6b3)[13]

Taking set two I believe

[AscarothD]

Rolling for stats

Taking set two I believe

9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?
- Everyone rolls a set of 4d6b3 six times, then you can pick the set you like the most from all rolled sets.

What GM Meant is you only roll your stats once. But if you don't like your rolls, you can choose a set rolled by another applicant. So you can use your first set of rolls, or scroll through the posts and pick someone else's first set of rolls.

TSorry for the confusion, its 4d6b3 x6 only

Yes, you can choose from other player's rolls

[Arael666]

9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?
- Everyone rolls a set of 4d6b3 six times, then you can pick the set you like the most from all rolled sets.

What GM Meant is you only roll your stats once. But if you don't like your rolls, you can choose a set rolled by another applicant. So you can use your first set of rolls, or scroll through the posts and pick someone else's first set of rolls.

I completely missed that. So multiple people van use any set that was rolled?

[AvatarVecna]

I completely missed that. So multiple people van use any set that was rolled?

Yeah. And I'll even save you some time: you wanna use Illven's rolls. Nobody has rolled better than that, and nobody is going to.

[ProgressPaladin]

Sorry I haven’t responded, I’ve been cycling through character concepts. I;ve decided on an Investigator/Occultist. I will be going for a skill monkey/librarian with some combat potential.

[Zhentarim]

sorry about the delay, i was fired a few months ago and am trying to get the next job

[Shiro_Nogard]

Finishing the leaves. I just have to make sure the math is correct.
Here we go with: Andalus Methys. Tiefling (Questioner & Blacksmith) and his homunculus Hera Cless*Yes, I know. :P*

A fixer and his bodyguard/assistant. He is the expert in entering, investigating and finding worshipers of the underworld, while also safely decomposing its artifacts. He has a sweet tooth and likes to always be groomed; Something that would not be expected from a person who dedicates himself to "dirty work."

She has a tendency to break her weapons, which is why she often fights using crossbow bolts. chain and stiletto shoes. She has acquired certain tendencies from her creator. He has begun to take up cartomancy as a hobby and entertains himself by talking and chatting with people in the taverns they frequent. He often ends up helping in investigations.

[Arael666]

Well, Nizam is mostly ready, assuming I didn't make any mistakes interpreting the rules. Human stalker/psion

He is a capable melee combatant (he doesn't use any sort of ranged attacks) and also a good scout, tracker and trapfinder.

His psionic powers are almost entirely used to enable his combat abilities, with a few dedicated to improve his scouting abilities

[Jack_Simth]

Well, Nizam is mostly ready, assuming I didn't make any mistakes interpreting the rules. Human stalker/psion

He is a capable melee combatant (he doesn't use any sort of ranged attacks) and also a good scout, tracker and trapfinder.

His psionic powers are almost entirely used to enable his combat abilities, with a few dedicated to improve his scouting abilities

Added to chart.

Finishing the leaves. I just have to make sure the math is correct.
Here we go with: Andalus Methys. Tiefling (Questioner & Blacksmith) and his homunculus Hera Cless*Yes, I know. :P*

A fixer and his bodyguard/assistant. He is the expert in entering, investigating and finding worshipers of the underworld, while also safely decomposing its artifacts. He has a sweet tooth and likes to always be groomed; Something that would not be expected from a person who dedicates himself to "dirty work."

She has a tendency to break her weapons, which is why she often fights using crossbow bolts. chain and stiletto shoes. She has acquired certain tendencies from her creator. He has begun to take up cartomancy as a hobby and entertains himself by talking and chatting with people in the taverns they frequent. He often ends up helping in investigations.

Added to chart.

Player	Character
AvatarVecna	Vogun Guttr and AC Akela
Dakrsidder	here
Jack_Simth	Adam and AC Gerald
Benoojian	Max Moggie
Arael666	Nizam
Shiro_Nogard	Andalus Methys and Hera Cless

So we have...
A ranged striker with a buff bot.
A skillmonkey//Librarian
A divine flex caster and a flying baggage handler
An arcane summoner
A melee specialist skillmonkey
A librarian crafter combatant plus assistent

...

Now all we need is for the DM to come back....

[Shiro_Nogard]

That we do. hope GM gets back soon.

Forgot to add I finished the sheets. We have a lot of carriers/handyman's here. Good to know. :D

[Jack_Simth]

That we do. hope GM gets back soon.

Forgot to add I finished the sheets. We have a lot of carriers/handyman's here. Good to know. :D

Sadly, DM hasn't posted anywhere in the public sections of the forums in about two weeks.

[Arael666]

Sadly, DM hasn't posted anywhere in the public sections of the forums in about two weeks.

He did say that he was having some real life issues going on, they are probably not letting him focus on this right now.

May someone wants to pick this up if he doesnt show up? It's an interesting take on archetypes

[Shiro_Nogard]

He did say that he was having some real life issues going on, they are probably not letting him focus on this right now.

May someone wants to pick this up if he doesnt show up? It's an interesting take on archetypes

indeed. x3

Well, I can wait. Lives hit hard.