The Black Dahlias [seeking players, 3.5]

[Burning Spear]

It's not, I just don't like/want the template you wanted.
I'm not sure I fully understand, you mean take dips? or PRC's?

1) Ok, that's a shame, O.o

2) No, neither, the classes for templates like Ghoul, Whight and Vampire Spawn in Lirbis Mortis say one should finish the whole "class" before doing anything else class-wise, which I think is lame. So I hope you'll allow anyone who wants to go that way to allow them to "multiclass" as normal, even with these "template-classes"..

[BelGareth]

1) Ok, that's a shame, O.o

2) No, neither, the classes for templates like Ghoul, Whight and Vampire Spawn in Lirbis Mortis say one should finish the whole "class" before doing anything else class-wise, which I think is lame. So I hope you'll allow anyone who wants to go that way to allow them to "multiclass" as normal, even with these "template-classes"..

Oh, yeah, those would need to be finished

[Burning Spear]

Oh, yeah, those would need to be finished

Boohoo, seriously, I don't get why this is supposedly a thing.

[Zarthrax]

Working on character idea for this.

Does Elemental Grafter (Magic of Eberron) equate to Graft Flesh (Lords of Madness) for qualifying for Fleshwarper prestige class (also Lords of Madness)? They both make grafts, but Elemental Grafter can be taken at level 5.

[BelGareth]

Working on character idea for this.

Does Elemental Grafter (Magic of Eberron) equate to Graft Flesh (Lords of Madness) for qualifying for Fleshwarper prestige class (also Lords of Madness)? They both make grafts, but Elemental Grafter can be taken at level 5.

Works for me

[Burning Spear]

Another Pm sent (or 2)

[Forsaken]

The Black Knight Lucian

The Black Knight Lucian. Created for the sole purpose of combatting the strongest foes upon the land terrorizing the people of the kingdom. Fighting the nobles and powerful defenders of the crown. Eventually losing and being frozen. Forced to wait for his freedom before trying to get his revenge and aim to claim his title as the strongest knight in the world.




Bio is a bit basic. But hopefully it gets more fleshed out during the campaign I hope.

[Ilerien]

Please, give Alastor a warm welcome.

Portrait is pending, and I'll likely make some minor adjustments later (at least to his inventory).

Spoiler: Backstory

Show

A hundred and something years ago Alastor was an aspiring acolyte of one of the major religions in the Kingdom. Less than disciplined, he received pains and penalties from the priests on a regular basis - for daydreaming, being lax in his duties, forgetting tenets of the faith. Once his superiors had been fed up with him, he had been sent on a pilgrimage to a remote temple. Naturally, the hapless acolyte got lost, stumbled upon fae crossroads and promptly crossed into the Realm of Faerie...
Alastor had emerged a hundred years later, vastly changed. Armed with mind-shattering knowledge and filled with insatiable craving to hoard more, he travelled the Kingdrom of the Rose and beyond doing his extravagant errands at the behest of his Lady, buying and stealing secrets, kidnapping people, delivering cryptic messages...
As the agents of the royal family discovered themselves, knowledge is power, in his case the power was literal. It tool considerable effort and several lost lives to capture Alastor, and for some reason they decided to keep the warlock in stasis.

[Metastachydium]

Boohoo, seriously, I don't get why this is supposedly a thing.

Because those being monster classes, when you take them, your race is your class (you damn whippersnappers). They are not terribly good, no, but
1. normal races don't allow a player to "multirace" either;
2. the point of them is to allow playing high RHD/LA count things at low levels, which they ultimately do do;
3. it's not like them being "hey, have a free template, no LA" cheese would be any more fair; and
4. as savage progressions demonstrated, what you want is dable, but it can get crazy broken fast.

Oh, and as regards the Revenant, a quick heads-up: it is, by RAW, LA –, i.e. as unplayable as it gets, and allows no advancement, so arguably one cannot progress a character further after adding a template. Some DMs might overlook those issues, but the Big 16 here specifies "no brew", so it's ultimately an illegal pick.

[CENTER]The Black Knight Lucian

But-but-but… He can't even have flesh wounds! (What with no flesh and all that.) What happens when you hack his limbs of?!

[Cygnia]

But-but-but… He can't even have flesh wounds! (What with no flesh and all that.) What happens when you hack his limbs of?!

"We are trying to contact you about your warforged's extended warranty..."

[Burning Spear]

Bit late reaction but I'll bite;

Because those being monster classes, when you take them, your race is your class (you damn whippersnappers). They are not terribly good, no, but

Ok "kiddo", I ain't no whipperwhatever, and have been playing for an odd 35+ years now, so I am well versed in what is and isn't crazy to ask for.

1. normal races don't allow a player to "multirace" either

2. the point of them is to allow playing high RHD/LA count things at low levels, which they ultimately do do

I guess...

3. it's not like them being "hey, have a free template, no LA" cheese would be any more fair; and

Not at all what I was asking/ gunning for.

4. as savage progressions demonstrated, what you want is dable, but it can get crazy broken fast.

Not what I was looking for and dabble?, not really, as I did intend to finish the progression, just intertmitten with actual class levels of the class I already had.

Oh, and as regards the Revenant, a quick heads-up: it is, by RAW, LA –, i.e. as unplayable as it gets, and allows no advancement, so arguably one cannot progress a character further after adding a template. Some DMs might overlook those issues, but the Big 16 here specifies "no brew", so it's ultimately an illegal pick.

No Idea where you getting that notion from.

Dm Pm'ed me anyway and answered some issues that came up, so I will be looking at my options now.

Anyway, I'm eyeing Katane now instead, +4 LA, nice and simple.

[Zarthrax]

@BelGareth-

Does the change in systems affect oldstyle grafts versus newstyle grafts? Specifically, I'm looking at mixing and matching oldstyle grafts, then picking a primary newstyle graft source as a primary.

[Forsaken]

Because those being monster classes, when you take them, your race is your class (you damn whippersnappers). They are not terribly good, no, but
1. normal races don't allow a player to "multirace" either;
2. the point of them is to allow playing high RHD/LA count things at low levels, which they ultimately do do;
3. it's not like them being "hey, have a free template, no LA" cheese would be any more fair; and
4. as savage progressions demonstrated, what you want is dable, but it can get crazy broken fast.

Oh, and as regards the Revenant, a quick heads-up: it is, by RAW, LA –, i.e. as unplayable as it gets, and allows no advancement, so arguably one cannot progress a character further after adding a template. Some DMs might overlook those issues, but the Big 16 here specifies "no brew", so it's ultimately an illegal pick.



But-but-but… He can't even have flesh wounds! (What with no flesh and all that.) What happens when you hack his limbs of?!

He will still keep fighting even if you cut off both arms and legs. Buhahaha I have improved him over the traditional black knights


edit might lower his spell resistance from 15 to 13 and snag a belt of healing lol. Vicious weapons drain hp a bit to much. Even with the +2 recovery per successful hit.

[Burning Spear]

I presume Half-Undead do not have a - for con?

[Metastachydium]

He will still keep fighting even if you cut off both arms and legs. Buhahaha I have improved him over the traditional black knights

GOOD.

Bit late reaction but I'll bite;

Bite?! I should have known those horns mean I'm facing a herbivore!

Ok "kiddo", I ain't no whipperwhatever, and have been playing for an odd 35+ years now,

I got an opportunity to say "your race is your class" and did the obvious joke. No offense was meant!

Not at all what I was asking/ gunning for.

Pardon the implication; that is, nevertheless, the rationale behind the design decision (like, it's a "no getting the Avoral's cool flight and cool class features quite so early").

No Idea where you getting that notion from.

"Advancement : —" is from p. 94 of MComp; that bit has never been changed or otherwise updated since;
"LA: —" is from p. 7 of the official Monster Update web enhancement to PGtF, where the Revenant is updated to 3.5 standards;
"no brew" and "no brew whatsoever" are specified under points no. 7 and 16, respectively, in the Big 16 here.

Dm Pm'ed me anyway and answered some issues that came up, so I will be looking at my options now.

Anyway, I'm eyeing Katane now instead, +4 LA, nice and simple.

Nice. I just saw you tried the Revenant idea in a number of recruitments, and was trying to help. Once more, no offense was meant.

♣

Anyhow, I got another stupid idea in the meantime: Rijn of the Number, a Lesser Earth Genasi Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1, with all those feats sunken into a combination of spear&shield fighting and AoOs. The basic idea is this weird Lawful bodyguard type working for whoever pays, no questions asked. Guy should have asked questions, got involved in a violent but idiotic revolt where a small provincial capital was overtaken by a would-be military genius who slaughtered the previous government (mostly hailing from a major noble house married into a cadet branch of the royal family) and moronically kept fighting for the usurper even after said usurper got killed because the contract was for a fixed period that didn't yet run out.

Do shoot it down, @Bel before I finish it up if it's too stupid (because I do absolutely understand it's really stupid).

[BelGareth]

[CENTER]The Black Knight Lucian

The Black Knight Lucian. Created for the sole purpose of combatting the strongest foes upon the land terrorizing the people of the kingdom. Fighting the nobles and powerful defenders of the crown. Eventually losing and being frozen. Forced to wait for his freedom before trying to get his revenge and aim to claim his title as the strongest knight in the world.

Bio is a bit basic. But hopefully it gets more fleshed out during the campaign I hope.

Excellent.

Please, give Alastor a warm welcome.

Portrait is pending, and I'll likely make some minor adjustments later (at least to his inventory).

Spoiler: Backstory

Show

A hundred and something years ago Alastor was an aspiring acolyte of one of the major religions in the Kingdom. Less than disciplined, he received pains and penalties from the priests on a regular basis - for daydreaming, being lax in his duties, forgetting tenets of the faith. Once his superiors had been fed up with him, he had been sent on a pilgrimage to a remote temple. Naturally, the hapless acolyte got lost, stumbled upon fae crossroads and promptly crossed into the Realm of Faerie...
Alastor had emerged a hundred years later, vastly changed. Armed with mind-shattering knowledge and filled with insatiable craving to hoard more, he travelled the Kingdrom of the Rose and beyond doing his extravagant errands at the behest of his Lady, buying and stealing secrets, kidnapping people, delivering cryptic messages...
As the agents of the royal family discovered themselves, knowledge is power, in his case the power was literal. It tool considerable effort and several lost lives to capture Alastor, and for some reason they decided to keep the warlock in stasis.

Love it, surprised you didn't go into Enlightened spirit tbh.

@BelGareth-

Does the change in systems affect oldstyle grafts versus newstyle grafts? Specifically, I'm looking at mixing and matching oldstyle grafts, then picking a primary newstyle graft source as a primary.

I'll be honest, my graft-fu is not strong, so I'll be depending on you for this mechanic. Make whatever decision you feel is appropriate.

I presume Half-Undead do not have a - for con?

No.

Anyhow, I got another stupid idea in the meantime: Rijn of the Number, a Lesser Earth Genasi Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1, with all those feats sunken into a combination of spear&shield fighting and AoOs. The basic idea is this weird Lawful bodyguard type working for whoever pays, no questions asked. Guy should have asked questions, got involved in a violent but idiotic revolt where a small provincial capital was overtaken by a would-be military genius who slaughtered the previous government (mostly hailing from a major noble house married into a cadet branch of the royal family) and moronically kept fighting for the usurper even after said usurper got killed because the contract was for a fixed period that didn't yet run out.

Do shoot it down, @Bel before I finish it up if it's too stupid (because I do absolutely understand it's really stupid).

I love this idea. Full steam ahead!

[Cygnia]

The depraved killer who would become Knowles started off as a lowly drudge in a thieves' guild in the far southwest of the Empire called the Seventy-Six Sevens. Mind you, never in this guild's history did its membership ever come close to seventy-six members, let alone reach 767. Minor smash and grabs and pickpocketing was the best this guild strove for -- nothing ever truly dangerous or risky.

And nothing worth a young changeling's talents. He chafed working for such a crude group. The town the guild was based in wasn't much better in terms of anything worth stealing. It was safe and boring and utterly dull. He left to try his fortunes elsewhere.

And on the road...

"Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste..."

The handsome stranger at the rundown tavern seemed amused at the brash lad's attempt to flatter him -- and laughed merrily when he tried to palm some coin from the stranger's purse. Then the would-be thief's gaze was caught by the stranger's unblinking red eyes. Time seemed to freeze...

"So much potential -- so much hunger! But you could be so, so much more, mortal changeling. Why settle for crumbs that you're forced to share with lesser fools anyways? Why not take the entire feast for yourself? And why take the shape of the thug when you could be something greater? All you have to do is play a different game.

All you have to do is TAKE...."

Before the night was over, he had taken up Mephistopheles' boon. No more being a mere rogue, he would stalk the unwary, naive fat sheep in their golden halls. Seduce them with honeyed words and wide smiles. Stare into their eyes in the privacy of their quarters, taking in their utter rapt attention...

...and leave them as cold corpses come morning, relieved of their most precious items. For Knowles, those six years were exhilarating! How did those accursed agents of the Queen find him?! And then to dare KEEP him imprisoned in the dreamless dark...

...until now...

Spoiler: Statblock

Show

Knowles
M NE Changeling Rogue2/Mountebank5/MountebankPrC2, Level 9, Init 3, HP 55/55, Speed 30
AC 21, Touch 15, Flat-footed 18, Fort 4, Ref 8, Will 3, Base Attack Bonus 6/1
Eternal Wand of Nerve Skitter in Wand Chamber Rapier +1 10/5 (1d6+1, 19-20/x2)
7/day mists conceal wearer for 1 minute, vision not obscured, Least Crystal of Mind Cloaking Mithralmist Shirt (+5 Armor, +3 Dex, +2 Deflect, +1 Natural)
Abilities Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 20
Condition Endure Elements (24/hr from Eternal Wand)
Least Crystal of Mind Cloaking: +1 on saves against mind-affecting effects
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against sleep and charm effects
Evasion: At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.
Craven: You take a -2 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. However, when making a sneak attack, you deal an extra 1 point of damage per character level.

[Burning Spear]

No. !

No, it isn't or no it is? 😆 Just to make sure I understand.
It would mean I need to spend points on Con. Meh, 😑

[Forsaken]

No, it isn't or no it is? 😆 Just to make sure I understand.
It would mean I need to spend points on Con. Meh, 😑

half undead do have a con score. Normally they suffer for being half undead but they still are half alive

[Burning Spear]

Nice. I just saw you tried the Revenant idea in a number of recruitments, and was trying to help. Once more, no offense was meant.

Righty'O, thanks for the heads-up.

♣

Rijn of the Number, a Lesser Earth Genasi Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1

Yikes, what a hodgepodge, lol.
But Earth Genasi, not seen them much used in apps in general, so looks fun, not sure though if Shield and Spear is the best choice, seeing as the rules are kinda against a 1handed spear.
(One reason I went Shield and Dagger instead, I actually want the Shield Ward feat.)

half undead do have a con score. Normally they suffer for being half undead but they still are half alive

Ok, thanks for helping clear that up (Even if u aren't the Dm), now I just need to shuffle some stats about, meh, planning always goes out the window.

[Alhallor]

I wasn't sure if I should made a charakter till I had a... Spark of inspiration.

Meet Natraxa Winemorgen, just a researcher on the subject of fear on humanoids. She didn't really know how she ended up in this situation, the contracts were all in order after all.

I still need to fill out equipment and stuff and I'm not sure on fear-stacking and Dread Witch in general.

I request the following flaws.

Brash: -6 to AoO and can't use the Withdraw option in battle. Dragon magacine 324 (The not Withdraw option was on me and gives the flaw the correct amount of oomph, especially with the AoO rules from Bel.)

Magical fascination: -2 to attacks and skill checks while in reach of a visible magical effect (wall of flame, spiritual weapon, etc...) I would consider her fear spells for this too, with some nice ray spells that I probably want to use this seems like it would be nearly always in effect.

[Metastachydium]

Meet Natraxa Winemorgen, just a researcher on the subject of fear on humanoids. She didn't really know how she ended up in this situation, the contracts were all in order after all.

Heh. I like it! I expesct she gets many "what happened to your face?!" a lot though.

Yikes, what a hodgepodge, lol.

Look, if I get to chance to sacrifice the functionality of most of my PCs class features and lose 3 points of BAB for 17 effective feats on a p level build, I'll do it.

But Earth Genasi, not seen them much used in apps in general, so looks fun,

Why, thank you! I wanted someone who's Humanoid but doesn't look the part. The stats didn't hurt, though.

not sure though if Shield and Spear is the best choice, seeing as the rules are kinda against a 1handed spear.
(One reason I went Shield and Dagger instead, I actually want the Shield Ward feat.)

Shield&spear is horrible. WotC went out of their way to actively sabotage it (bad WotC!). But there are ways, most notably Salamander halfspears^SS. I… Did something more questionable instead.

(Also, if you don't need Shield Specialization for anything else like I did, I recommend you look into Parrying Shiedl^LoM.)

I love this idea. Full steam ahead!

[EVIL laughter!!] Yes, Sir!

Rijn of the Number
M LE Lesser Earth Genasi Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1, Level 9, Init 3, HP / , Speed 30'
AC 25, Touch 18, Flat-footed 22, Fort 11, Ref 11, Will 10, Base Attack Bonus 6/1, Power Points 0/0
Reach; lesser c. of cold assault +1 greatspear +11/+6 (1d10+6+1d6 c., ×3)
+1 greatspear and heavy pearlsteel shield +9/+9/+4 (1d10+6+1d6 c./1d4+2, ×3/×2)
Punch people +11/+6 (1d6+5, ×2)
Mithral; masterwork; lesser c. of rubicund frenzy (+3) +1 breastplate, Masterwork; pearlsteel +2 heavy shield (+7 Armor, +5 Shield, +3 Dex)
Abilities Str 20, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8
Condition None
–+2 racial bonus on saving throws against earth spells and effects;
–AoOs have +2 competence to hit;
–Aid Another in combat grants +3; flanking gives +2 to damage.

I still've got a picture to conjure up, some shopping to do and fluff. As regards the latter… Be informed that there will be a good explanation for how and why this shmuck ended up with all those stupid levels.

[BelGareth]

I wasn't sure if I should made a charakter till I had a... Spark of inspiration.

Meet Natraxa Winemorgen, just a researcher on the subject of fear on humanoids. She didn't really know how she ended up in this situation, the contracts were all in order after all.

I still need to fill out equipment and stuff and I'm not sure on fear-stacking and Dread Witch in general.

I request the following flaws.

Brash: -6 to AoO and can't use the Withdraw option in battle. Dragon magacine 324 (The not Withdraw option was on me and gives the flaw the correct amount of oomph, especially with the AoO rules from Bel.)

Magical fascination: -2 to attacks and skill checks while in reach of a visible magical effect (wall of flame, spiritual weapon, etc...) I would consider her fear spells for this too, with some nice ray spells that I probably want to use this seems like it would be nearly always in effect.

I absolutely LOVE it, but my only concern with a fear based build is how darn powerful they can be.
Maybe dilute it down a tad and give yourself more options, the intimidate at +25 for example?

[Burning Spear]

Pearlsteel?, where is it from/ what does it do?

@BelGareth:
Ring of See Invisibility

This ring allows the wearer to see invisible, astral, or ethereal creatures or objects within 130 feet as if they were normally visible. It does not reveal illusions or creatures that are simply hiding or concealed. Ethereal creatures viewed from the Material Plane appear slightly hazy and unfocused, but the wearer can otherwise see details normally.
Caster Level: 3rd; Prerequisites: Forge Ring, see invisibility; Market Price: 15,000 gp.

Would you allow this item even if it goes over the: 36,000 gp, no item more than 1/3 of starting wealth (12k)?

Edit:
Flaws of interest:
Warrior Of The Phalanx
{Scrubbed}
Source: Dragon Magazine #324

Mounted Warrior
{Scrubbed}
Source: Dragon Magazine #324

[Postmodernist]

Pearlsteel?, where is it from/ what does it do?

Stormwrack. Damage dealt underwater by a pearlsteel bludgeoning or slashing weapon is reduced by -2 rather than halved.

[Burning Spear]

Stormwrack. Damage dealt underwater by a pearlsteel bludgeoning or slashing weapon is reduced by -2 rather than halved.

Ok, cheers.

[Cygnia]

Stormwrack, I believe

"Pearlsteel is very light, especially in water. Pearlsteel items weigh 25% less than their normal equivalents."

[Forsaken]

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Approved and or Statements
Metastachydium	Rijn of the Number	Lesser Earth Genasi	Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1	- - - - - - - - - -
Alhallor	Natraxa Winemorgen	Human	Dread Necromancer 5 / Dread Witch 4	- - - - - - - - - -
Ilerien	Alastor	Human	Cleric 1 / Warlock 8	- - - - - - - - - -
Forsaken	Lucian the Black Knight	Warforged	Warblade 8 Crusader 1	- - - - - - - - - -
LairdMaon	Asano	Whisper Gnome	Martial Rogue	- - - - - - - - - -
Aurangh	Thespos	Kalashtar	Face Dancer	- - - - - - - - - -
Burning Spear	Grigor Hulmaster	Human Katane (Half Vampire)	Wizz/ Paragon/ Master Spec.	- - - - - - - - - -
				- - - - - - - - - -
				- - - - - - - - - -

[Alhallor]

Heh. I like it! I expesct she gets many "what happened to your face?!" a lot though.

I imagine that's what people see when she activates her fear aura.

I absolutely LOVE it, but my only concern with a fear based build is how darn powerful they can be.
Maybe dilute it down a tad and give yourself more options, the intimidate at +25 for example?

I'll temper it down a little, the +25 comes mostly from Dread witch who gives +2 to Intimidate for every level of the class. I'll tone it down to a single +2.

[Cygnia]

Adding me to THE LIST...

Player	Character	Race	Classes	Approved and or Statements
Metastachydium	Rijn of the Number	Lesser Earth Genasi	Fighter 2/Martial Monk 2/Martial Rogue 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Combat Wizard 1	- - - - - - - - - -
Alhallor	Natraxa Winemorgen	Human	Dread Necromancer 5 / Dread Witch 4	- - - - - - - - - -
Ilerien	Alastor	Human	Cleric 1 / Warlock 8	- - - - - - - - - -
Forsaken	Lucian the Black Knight	Warforged	Warblade 8 Crusader 1	- - - - - - - - - -
LairdMaon	Asano	Whisper Gnome	Martial Rogue	- - - - - - - - - -
Aurangh	Thespos	Kalashtar	Face Dancer	- - - - - - - - - -
Burning Spear	Grigor Hulmaster	Human Katane (Half Vampire)	Wizz/ Paragon/ Master Spec.	- - - - - - - - - -
Cygnia	Knowles	Changeling	Rogue2/Mountebank5 (DragComp)/Mountebank PrC2 (CompS)	- - - - - - - - - -
				- - - - - - - - - -