The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)

[chaincomplex]

[EDIT]- this build would benefit greatly from the LA reassignment.

Go with +2 LA.

Spellwarped

Go with +2 LA.

Thri-Kreen

Go with +1 LA.

Thanks, and some more pertinent questions;
Is permanent int increase retroactive?

Yes. This isn't rules faithful to D&D 3.5e but timing Int increases for a build is just annoying bookkeeping that doesn't add to the game. Pathfinder fixed this, IIRC.

My query was overlooked but partly answered. I still need a definitive answer though.

Are officially WOTC approved second party sources allowed? I am thinking of mimir.com and athas.org as sources for 3.5 material for Planescape and Dark Sun material. Just for the record, they would be ideal sources of material for you to use too, as a DM.

Sorry about that, got lost in the mix. I wasn't aware either of these were considered "2nd-party". Unless you can show me otherwise I'm going with no. As I recall we only got 2nd-party Dragonlance and Kalamar stuff.

[BelGareth]

Dark sun is most definitely an official setting

If you scroll down it has the wotc licensing https://www.athas.org/

[chaincomplex]

Dark sun is most definitely an official setting

If you scroll down it has the wotc licensing https://www.athas.org/

Noted. I knew Dark Sun in 2e was official, but wasn't aware WotC recognized any 3e source.

athas.org is considered approved material, though as I mentioned above with Dragonlance, I haven't gone through it so I'll take it on trust that you'll let me know if something borked is coming out of there,

[Goby]

This looks interesting, with very well written intro.
I always have some character ideas waiting to be tried, let me see if I can find a good concept to fit this story.

[JNAProductions]

I made Ruby!
She is cat.
She breathes fire (among other things).
And she wants her family back.

Just checking, Chain, if this was missed. Didn't see any comments on the sheet and character.

[chaincomplex]

Just checking, Chain, if this was missed. Didn't see any comments on the sheet and character.

Not missed. I will Eventually^TM put up a table for sheets and characters, then go through them.

Of course when the table is up and if you're not on it, then I definitely missed you, feel free to badger me until I fix it.

[JNAProductions]

Not missed. I will Eventually^TM put up a table for sheets and characters, then go through them.

Of course when the table is up and if you're not on it, then I definitely missed you, feel free to badger me until I fix it.

Fair enough! Just making sure.

Thank you. :)

[paradox26]

Noted. I knew Dark Sun in 2e was official, but wasn't aware WotC recognized any 3e source.

athas.org is considered approved material, though as I mentioned above with Dragonlance, I haven't gone through it so I'll take it on trust that you'll let me know if something borked is coming out of there,

Thanks for that. I just checked and at the end of a lengthy article it says Mimir is unofficial after all. I was thinking of another site I think, but I only intended to use Athas.org for the most part in any case. I won't use anything overpowered, and will run things past you as they arise. Is it okay to use Athasian races and material for the character, who travelled to Faerun before game start? I have always wanted to play a Mul, and that is the only place outside of Dragon magazine where you can find them. There is at least one or two artifacts I can track down for you if needed that allow for travel from Athas to the rest of the multiverse.

EDIT: Just found it. It is called planewalker.com and it is the official fan site. They have permission to make material as long as they don't try to sell it. Not sure if that officially counts as second party or not.

[remetagross]

Hi mates!

I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.

My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

[samduke]

just noticed this but I have been busy, I am interested.

@GM - Questions and no I am sorry, I did not go through all the pages to see if they were asked.

Question
can we take a spell (IE: Haste) use the dmg p285 info to make it continuous and place that upon an item ?
Haste: (3x5x2000x4) =120k

RE:
Sources: I know you mentioned 1st party 3.5 stuff, but there are many 3.0 materials that I know were not updated. - Can we use those or would they need to be requested ?

Race with LA: you did mention that LA can be bought off, you did not mention if templates were allowed and it is presumed if so they are also under the LA buyoff option

Template request just in case
Tauric Creature LA+3
SS p132
MM2 p216
MM2 Update booklet p10
can be added to added to any corporeal
humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small or Medium-size (referred to hereafter as the base humanoid)
and any Medium-size or Large corporeal animal, magical beast, or vermin
LA Base Humanoid +3 , There is never LA assigned to the Base Animal Side

Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests that I have ( I may or may not use these )
Ranger-Knight of Furmundy drm#317
Half-Nymph (DR313 p95)
Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)
Magic-Blooded (Dragon Magazine #306 p50)
Half-Minotaur (DR313 p94)
Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)
Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)
Theurgic Bond (Dragon #325 p62)
Theurgic Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Holy Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)
Crescent Knife (Dragon Magazine #275)



Special Material Request
Dwarven Blackrock (Godsteel) (this may be in planar metals)
This masterwork material is a mixture of metal and stone,
+3 To Hit, 2 sizes larger Damage, +1 Threat, +1 crit multiplier, +1 crit, damage +2, Adamantine, Magic, Blunt, 30 hardness, +10 hit points, +10% weight, 1600/lb
All bonuses are MW; ignores up to 30 hardness vs. objects; immune to rust; item has best properties of steel or stone, Extremely Rare
Like adamantine, dwarven blackrock easily penetrates the hardness of any other material.
Due to its unusual nature as an alloy of metal and stone, godsteel items tend to be more sculpted and carved rather
than hammered and forged. As a result, when purchasing an item made of dwarven blackrock, the customer must
pay for at least three pounds of the material in order ensure enough working stock to make the desired object
properly.


Source:
Dynamic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)
Academic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)


Requesting these Flaws

Bravado: Don't gain any kind of dodge bonuses to your Armor Class (Dragon 328)

Grudge Keeper: If damaged in combat you suffer a -2 penalty on attacks rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks until you damage the foe who caused you harm. (Dragon 328)


Other Requests
Lamanated (aeg mercenaries p91)
Serrated (aeg mercenaries p92)

Hurricane of Steel
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...pecific)-PEACH

[Chambers]

Working on an Eldritch Theurge. Possible ideas for the wish are something related to the Wall of the Faithless (a relative or loved one is lost in the Wall?) or the 333 Gems of Tharizdun, brought together and used for some other purpose.

[Arael666]

Warrick

Spoiler: Backstory

Show

Tragedy arrived very early in Warrick's life. Born into the humble embrace of a village nestled amidst rolling hills, Warrick's childhood was shattered when the menacing shadow of goblinoid marauders descended upon his home.

The invaders captured him and his sister, Evelyn, and murdered their parents. The lad managed to escape, but not before witnessing his sister becoming food for the goblin troops. Until that very that moment, he hoped to return home and rebuild the village with his sister, but instead swore himself on a path of vengeance against the forces of evil that had ravaged his life.

Luckly he was taken in by the church of Tyr, to be cared for and trained, managing to become Knight Champion at a very early age. Drawing upon the teachings of his church, he honed his martial skills and embraced the mantle of a Paladin, wielding divine magic to bolster his combat capabilities and smite those who dared to defy the laws of righteousness.

But Warrick's thirst for retribution transcended the boundaries of mere mortal justice. Driven by an insatiable desire to eradicate evil in all its forms, he delved deeper into the mysteries of divine magic, seeking to harness its power to achieve his singular goal: to purge the world of darkness and restore balance to the scales of justice.

As he walked the path of the righteous, Warrick's unwavering resolve, relentless pursuit of evil and even his appearance caught the attention of his church. While they lauded his accomplishments in vanquishing wickedness, they grew increasingly wary of his methods, which bordered on fanaticism. His single-minded determination to eradicate evil at any cost earned him both admiration and suspicion, and whispers of dissent began to spread among the clergy.

Undeterred by the doubts of his peers, Warrick remained steadfast in his conviction, guided by the unwavering light of Tyr's justice. Yet, even as he continued his crusade against the forces of darkness, a burning question gnawed at the edges of his consciousness: what lay at the heart of evil itself? In his quest for answers, he became obsessed with the enigmatic concept of the Noctuary—a fabled realm said to hold power beyond what even the gods themselves are able to wield.

Driven by his relentless pursuit of truth and justice, Warrick resolved to uncover the secrets of the Noctuary and use it to confront the darkness at its core. With the favor of Tyr as his guiding light, he set forth on a journey fraught with peril and uncertainty, determined to fulfill his destiny as the Divine Inquisitor and bring an end to the blight of evil that plagued the world.

Spoiler: Mechanics

Show

Warrick is mostly a basic Clericzilla. I like the holy warrior concept a lot. As far as optimization level goes, it highly depends on what spells we're persisting, so we can tone it down or improve it easily without changing the character at all. That goes without saying, but I do not intend to persist buffs like beastland ferocity+delay death or apply feats like "occular spell" to persist non personal and fixed range spells

Sheet is WIP but I'm really only missing items and spells

[Ancient]

Posting interest as a Favored Soul. Would you allow a Favored soul to exchange knowledge Arcana for knowledge religion?

[chaincomplex]

Is it okay to use Athasian races and material for the character, who travelled to Faerun before game start? I have always wanted to play a Mul, and that is the only place outside of Dragon magazine where you can find them. There is at least one or two artifacts I can track down for you if needed that allow for travel from Athas to the rest of the multiverse.

It's not actually that important that the PCs are from Toril, you can be native to Athas. The problem is that I'm not too familiar with the Dark Sun setting so it's just a little extra work on my part to get up to speed with whatever is in your PC's background. Following this I'm also not 100% on Dark Sun cosmology, but I think travel from Athas to Toril may be as simple as two castings of plane shift. Certainly Athasspace is on the Prime and so is probably everywhere coterminous with the Astral Plane.

EDIT: Just found it. It is called planewalker.com and it is the official fan site. They have permission to make material as long as they don't try to sell it. Not sure if that officially counts as second party or not.

I glanced through it. The site is a little too incomplete and scuffed, so despite having some kind of agreement with Wizards, I'm going to say no here.

Question
can we take a spell (IE: Haste) use the dmg p285 info to make it continuous and place that upon an item ?
Haste: (3x5x2000x4) =120k

No, unless you can argue that for a roughly similar price you can obtain haste or a similarly powerful effect permanently via published magic items.

I'm open to custom magic items to be clear. I'm just making special adjudications for continuous spell effects for the obvious reasons.

RE:
Sources: I know you mentioned 1st party 3.5 stuff, but there are many 3.0 materials that I know were not updated. - Can we use those or would they need to be requested ?

You can use the 3e version of material that has not been updated to 3.5e.

Race with LA: you did mention that LA can be bought off, you did not mention if templates were allowed and it is presumed if so they are also under the LA buyoff option

Templates are fine providing they aren't LA —.

Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests that I have ( I may or may not use these )
Ranger-Knight of Furmundy drm#317
Half-Nymph (DR313 p95)
Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)
Magic-Blooded (Dragon Magazine #306 p50)
Half-Minotaur (DR313 p94)
Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)
Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)
Theurgic Bond (Dragon #325 p62)
Theurgic Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Holy Mount (Dragon #325 p62)
Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)
Crescent Knife (Dragon Magazine #275)

Frankly way too many for me to look through and understand. Please narrow it down some.

Special Material Request
Dwarven Blackrock (Godsteel) (this may be in planar metals)
This masterwork material is a mixture of metal and stone,
+3 To Hit, 2 sizes larger Damage, +1 Threat, +1 crit multiplier, +1 crit, damage +2, Adamantine, Magic, Blunt, 30 hardness, +10 hit points, +10% weight, 1600/lb
All bonuses are MW; ignores up to 30 hardness vs. objects; immune to rust; item has best properties of steel or stone, Extremely Rare
Like adamantine, dwarven blackrock easily penetrates the hardness of any other material.
Due to its unusual nature as an alloy of metal and stone, godsteel items tend to be more sculpted and carved rather
than hammered and forged. As a result, when purchasing an item made of dwarven blackrock, the customer must
pay for at least three pounds of the material in order ensure enough working stock to make the desired object
properly.

3rd-party. No.

Source:
Dynamic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)
Academic Priest (Legends of the Twins P12)

Dragonlance 3e, right? If so, then yes, but be aware I'm just blanket OKing it as a 2nd-party sourcebook. I am definitely not familiar with it so the onus is on you to let me know if it's borked.

Requesting these Flaws

Bravado: Don't gain any kind of dodge bonuses to your Armor Class (Dragon 328)

Grudge Keeper: If damaged in combat you suffer a -2 penalty on attacks rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks until you damage the foe who caused you harm. (Dragon 328)

OK to both.

Other Requests
Lamanated (aeg mercenaries p91)
Serrated (aeg mercenaries p92)

Hurricane of Steel
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...pecific)-PEACH

3rd-party and homebrew, no.

Posting interest as a Favored Soul. Would you allow a Favored soul to exchange knowledge Arcana for knowledge religion?

Yes. This seems like it was a misprint or something, the Favored Soul is obviously going to be an expert in religion and not arcana.

[samduke]

@GM
Re

Dragon / Dungeon Magazine requests reduced

Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)

Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)

Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)

Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)

[JNAProductions]

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

I'm using a modified DFA, that includes Epic levels.

It also includes a few Quality Of Life tweaks, like making Breath Weapon damage match Sneak Attack damage.

The extra 1d6 is from a Dragon Spirit Cincture.

[namo]

heh, thats where im going with Thunderlance. should be interesting to see the differences.

Ha, funny coincidence. It seems like it would be more central to your build, so I will leave it to you, and make use of other weapons.

I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.

My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

My character is a Draconic Changeling, with her spells fluffed draconically (she is a Bard/Sublime Chord), so they should get along well.
She is seeking the Dragonsong, the cosmic song of progenitor dragons across the planes, that - she believes - embeds the powers of Creation and Balance (and hence Destruction too).

Let's summon the other returning player so they can share what they're playing: come, reveal yourself!

[BelGareth]

Ha, funny coincidence. It seems like it would be more central to your build, so I will leave it to you, and make use of other weapons.



My character is a Draconic Changeling, with her spells fluffed draconically (she is a Bard/Sublime Chord), so they should get along well.
She is seeking the Dragonsong, the cosmic song of progenitor dragons across the planes, that - she believes - embeds the powers of Creation and Balance (and hence Destruction too).

Let's summon the other returning player so they can share what they're playing: come, reveal yourself!

Nah, I completely pivoted to a half dragon archer....which oddly seems very apt with yours as well! lol

[Yas392]

Requesting Imbued Staff ACF from Dragon Magazine 338 page 58.

[JNAProductions]

Can we submit multiple characters?

I'm asking because one of the original characters is a DFA, and I'd rather not do too much toe-stepping.

Edit: Metaphysical Spellshaper is a yes or no? Page 81, BoEF. (Not sure why that's the book it's in, but it is. :P )

[samduke]

well I have 3 characters in mind pending approval on the reduced drag mags above.

so I will at least get a link posted

Ginger

[droobles]

Hi mates!

I'm one of the two surviving players from the original campaign, we'll be playing together :) here's my original sheet.

My dude is Ux Utanar, a LG Dragonborn of Bahamut. He used to be a Knight 20 (and my I say held his own honorably enough against CR 20 encounters). But for fluff and mechanical reasons I've decided to shake things up a bit and to retrain him as a Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Adept 20.

@JNA I've seen you're going for a DFA as well. How are you achieving the 11d6 damage for the breath weapon? The DFA caps out at 9d6 at level 20 and I'm failing to find ways to boost this further.

Cool, that really helps me to know what level of power to aim for. Paladin 20 might work after all.

[Zarthrax]

I have a couple of ideas for this, so here are questions for the DM.

@chaincomplex-

1. Stance on taking a bloodline from Unearthed Arcana?

2. Stance on using either Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell (Dragon Magazine, but I'm AFB right now for issue and page number) to make divine spells count as arcane for PrC qualifications?

3. Not a question, but an answer to your earlier bit about leaving Athas for the wider planes- bit harder than just planeshift, sad to say. You have to get suicidally lost in the Deep Ethereal and then find the right (or wrong) colored gate. Little bit of hoop jumping for backstory, but easily done.

[chaincomplex]

Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23)

Sword of Celestia ACF (Dragon Mag. 349)

Obah-Blessed (Dunggon Magazine #136, p.60)

Athasian Human (Dr319 p26)

OK on all.

Requesting Imbued Staff ACF from Dragon Magazine 338 page 58.

Request granted.

1. Stance on taking a bloodline from Unearthed Arcana?

Go for it.

2. Stance on using either Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell (Dragon Magazine, but I'm AFB right now for issue and page number) to make divine spells count as arcane for PrC qualifications?

Depends on exact qualification statement. For a benchmark, I do regard Southern Magician as qualifying Clerics for Archmage or the other Core PrCs I glanced at. I don't believe this is what the designers intended, since presumably the qualification statements should be about the source of one's casting, but it simply says "ability to cast". More problematic are statements like "+1 level of existing arcane casting class" but per my assessment, this isn't a term of art about arcane sources of magic, it's simply picking out classes that can cast arcane spells, which a Cleric can explicitly do with Southern Magician.

3. Not a question, but an answer to your earlier bit about leaving Athas for the wider planes- bit harder than just planeshift, sad to say. You have to get suicidally lost in the Deep Ethereal and then find the right (or wrong) colored gate. Little bit of hoop jumping for backstory, but easily done.

Noted, cheers.

[samduke]

@chaincomplex
okay checking LA assignments

Thrikreen (non psionic) I have as LA+1

The "Lesser" (Lesser section in PGtF p190)
Powerful Races at 1st Level portion
For each negative level adjustment, he takes the following penalties.

Can I apply the "Lesser" variant to this race?


Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23) one source I show as LA+1, but the actual mag has this as LA+3
is acquired
I would like to know which way you rule it as?

[Duqueen]

are other turn attempts considered as turn undead, such as turn elementals?

[chaincomplex]

Thrikreen (non psionic) I have as LA+1

The "Lesser" (Lesser section in PGtF p190)
Powerful Races at 1st Level portion
For each negative level adjustment, he takes the following penalties.

Can I apply the "Lesser" variant to this race?

Which variant? The one that's just an across-the-board negative level penalty will already be bought off by your XP. The lesser-race variant doesn't include thri-kreen.

Fire-Souled Template (DR314 p23) one source I show as LA+1, but the actual mag has this as LA+3
is acquired
I would like to know which way you rule it as?

+3.

are other turn attempts considered as turn undead, such as turn elementals?

I can't find a way to make the argument "yes" work by RAW interpretation, so no. It appears elemental turning is intended to be distinct from undead turning.

[Feathersnow]

I settled on which character to submit. JNA reconsidering theirs made it easier.

Spoiler: One Ear

Show

I am called One Ear. My name is my own. I am of the People, the Children of Mr. Tibbles. Mr. Tibbles was the Herald of The Master. The Master was a good man. I do not know why they sent armies against him.
I fell when they sent war trolls against The Master, when Mr. Tibbles first rallied The People and the lesser Kindred to The Master's fortress. An army of cat-kind. But The Master treated me with the blood of the enemy and I lived again. I became not just a child of Mr. Tibbles, but his squire, a servant of The Master.

They sent dragons against The Master. Again I fell. The Master sewed me back with parts taken from an unborn egg of a she-dragon felled in the attack. And I became his Dragon, the Enforcer of The Master.

They sent more and more against us, I learned the magics of The Master, and I learned how to borrow and steal the magics of others. The Blood of Mr. Tibbles did not just unlock the power to turn into the guise of a halfling, it gave me power like unto The Master. I became One Ear, apprentice to The Master.

But villains eventually slew him. They smothered his simulcra in their wombs, cracked his soul Jars, burnt every runic seal that would hold his essence and rebuild his body. Then they desecrated his fortress and scattered The People. Only I remain loyal to The Master. I will find the secret prize and bring him back.

[chaincomplex]

You can submit multiple characters. I think I forgot to respond to JNA.

[samduke]

Which variant? The one that's just an across-the-board negative level penalty will already be bought off by your XP. The lesser-race variant doesn't include thri-kreen.

well the Powerful Races at 1st Level ortion that I mentioned does not seem to indicate the "planetouched" and the penalties incurred are different than if (UA P19 Table 1–1: Reducing Level Adjustments) is used to buy off that level adjustment.
that was why I asked about it.

however okay. Noted on the +3 for fire-souled
following the (UA P19 Table 1–1: Reducing Level Adjustments)
if I use the Fire-souled and the Obah-Blessed templates LA+6
Obah-Blessed is Inherited so I would take that hit at level 0, but Fire-souled is Acquired so I would not take its hit on LA until I actually take the template.

As such I need to run this past you
Obah-Blessed LA +2 is bought off at class levels 6, 9
Obah-Blessed LA+3 is bought off at class levels 9, 15, 18
I am using the +3 for this example

(ECL – 1) × 1,000 exp <ecl12-1 x 1000 = 11,000 + ecl17-1 x 1000=16,000 + ecl19-1 x 1000 18,000 for a net 45,000 exp [ecl 19 171,000 - 45,000 = 166,000 which puts it 1/2way through level 18 exp wise>

now that is bought off... the character is officially level 18, so at level 19 Fire-souled could be Acquired
and has been assigned +3 LA


it is noted the big 16 indicate (200,000 XP) at level 20 190,000 is required...

there are a few different ways this can be handled it could take three levels (19-21) or a similar exp cost could occur <-45,000 exp> but taking additional respective levels to buy them off.

I would like your opinion on how you would handle that.

I think eating the LA+3 might be better, considering there was mention of this game going EPIC.



edited

18th 153,000
19th 171,000
20th 190,000