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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    AssassinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    There's a niche case where Rajesh isn't on the cover because of a significant breakthrough - maybe he's the youngest/first transgender/American-Punjabi/whatever Associate Professor at Harvard or something, and it's just news.

    Similarly, 'average' is only Liz's opinion of him - she got two PhDs in what seems to be a long-weekend, for all we know he's genuinely brilliant except in comparison to her alone.

    I have absolutely no doubt that Jeph doesn't understand the Research Associate/Fellow/Academic route into higher education, but that can be hand-waved away by the existence of radically unorthodox institutions like Cubeland, or progressively liberal places like SMIF. The more unfortunate part of this exchange is that he still thinks we care that Liz is unhappy, despite demonstrably NOT having been plugging away for at least 2 years.
    Another alternative explanation is that Rajesh is just another prodigy like Liz who went through all this accelerated education, which would explain why he is something close to her peer.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    This hyper focus on Liz we've had for the first...um...since she was introduced...has made me finally realize something.

    I don't hate Liz as a character idea. Leave aside the two PhDs while having no arms and a grueling prosthetics rehab program while apparently going through school in a way that proves Jeph has no concept of linear time. I hate all that, but the core concept of Liz is a super advanced genius who didn't learn how to function in the real world and is now struggling with crashing and burning. That could be a cool character story that is relatable.

    ...so why the HELL did Jeph decide to write her as a horrible, chaos goblin *******? She is so unremittingly terrible that every time she starts to garner a glimmer of sympathy I'm pushed right back into hating her. Making her into a normal-but-unsocialized human being would have been far better. Discard the chaos goblin and make her an accidental jerkass with endearing moments to keep the audience rooting for her. I feel like she could have been written so much better by having a subtler, more nuanced character instead of this monster that ping-pongs between emotional extremes.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    DrowGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    ...so why the HELL did Jeph decide to write her as a horrible, chaos goblin *******?
    Probably because they are 'in" right now. He saw characters and people like Peridot or Pipkin Pippa and thought "Yeah, I could make one of those" but didn't really understand what makes them endearing, or what makes people care about them, or why they have fans. You can have a chaos gremlin as a character but you have to commit. Like you can't half-ass it with both pity me sob stories and terrible behavior but not quite terrible enough to be funny.

    It's just a combination of lack of creativity or just genuinely not understanding why people like the archetype that makes it a total fumble.
    Last edited by Beelzebub1111; 2024-06-10 at 01:38 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    PirateCaptain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    This hyper focus on Liz we've had for the first...um...since she was introduced...has made me finally realize something.

    I don't hate Liz as a character idea. Leave aside the two PhDs while having no arms and a grueling prosthetics rehab program while apparently going through school in a way that proves Jeph has no concept of linear time. I hate all that, but the core concept of Liz is a super advanced genius who didn't learn how to function in the real world and is now struggling with crashing and burning. That could be a cool character story that is relatable.

    ...so why the HELL did Jeph decide to write her as a horrible, chaos goblin *******? She is so unremittingly terrible that every time she starts to garner a glimmer of sympathy I'm pushed right back into hating her. Making her into a normal-but-unsocialized human being would have been far better. Discard the chaos goblin and make her an accidental jerkass with endearing moments to keep the audience rooting for her. I feel like she could have been written so much better by having a subtler, more nuanced character instead of this monster that ping-pongs between emotional extremes.
    I mean, he did something similar with May.

    May was a horrible chaos gremlin with no impulse control.

    I think the main difference is that by the time we met her, May's life sucked. It sucked as consequence of a thing she'd done in the past, and that was a thing that was only tangentially related to her being a chaos gremlin. The problems we saw May deal with in-comic were largely issues around her circumstances, it was pretty rare that she was causing problems for herself. Life sucks when you're an ex-con with no money whose body is falling apart. The fact that you're a chaos gremlin doesn't make things better, but you didn't end up here because you're crass and rude to people. If May STOPPED being crass and rude, her life wouldn't markedly improve. In fact, what improved her life was generous cash donations from her social circle and a ridiculous windfall perfect job when one of her close friends became obscenely wealthy.



    With Liz, her life ALSO sucks, but it's pretty much because she's a jerk. Had she reached out to other people when she arrived at Cubetown, she could have found a spot in a research team. Had she been nicer to people she met in Massachusetts, she wouldn't keep needing to apologize to everybody. Now that Moray knows about Liz's situation, when they get back to Cubetown, Liz will get the support she needs to succeed. It's harder to sympathize with Liz because she would have basically zero problems if she didn't keep being a jerk to people.

    Heck, we havn't even gotten any sense that Liz's position at Cubetown is in jeopardy from having spent two years accomplishing nothing. She's beating herself up over it, but everybody else mostly just apologizes that the system failed her. While it's true that she was failed by the highly dysfunctional Cubetown, it does mean it's hard to sympathize with her.


    Liz steps on a rake, we're told "Feel sorry for Liz, she just stepped on a rake". Then five minutes later, she steps on the same rake. "Feel sorry for Liz, she has a condition that forces her to step on rakes every five minutes".
    Last edited by BRC; 2024-06-10 at 02:02 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    DrowGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Liz steps on a rake, we're told "Feel sorry for Liz, she just stepped on a rake". Then five minutes later, she steps on the same rake. "Feel sorry for Liz, she has a condition that forces her to step on rakes every five minutes".
    Now I'm imagining Liz as sidehow bob and it's pretty great. I think that's the missing piece. No-one is laughing at Liz's self-inflicted misfortune. It's either treated VERY SERIOUSLY like with Faye or we get awwwwwpoorbaby like from Claire back in cubetown or Clinton with the cat story. Where is Nelson in all of this?

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    PirateCaptain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Now I'm imagining Liz as sidehow bob and it's pretty great. I think that's the missing piece. No-one is laughing at Liz's self-inflicted misfortune. It's either treated VERY SERIOUSLY like with Faye or we get awwwwwpoorbaby like from Claire back in cubetown or Clinton with the cat story. Where is Nelson in all of this?
    As the comic is presented, Liz is the Nelson.


    The cycle is:

    Liz is horrible to somebody. This usually represents the central joke of the comic. "Look how horrible this gremlin is". "Look at this horrible gremlin" is one of the earliest QC jokes, featuring prominently in the very first comic.

    Next, The Somebody reacts to Liz being horrible. Liz is forced to suffer a consequence. We are supposed to sympathize with her.

    Finally, Liz beats herself up and apologizes, we are supposed to feel a sense of relief and progression from this.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    The difference with May is summed up well by Dale in the opening arc where we're introduced to her. "You're pretty nice underneath all that attitude".

    I hated May when she was first introduced. At a comic per day, her initial rude and crude bit got old fast. Looking back at the arc, it goes a lot more quickly when it's all done. It's 24 comics, or roughly 5 weeks worth of strips. And knowing where May would end up as a character, you can see the moments where she's trying. May talking Dale into repairing his relationship with Marigold is something she didn't have to do, and Dale giving her a good review and staying up to watch the stars with her at the end feels earned.

    When May reappears, there's that moment of "Here we go again". Yet one of the first things she does is immediately go and badger Marigold out of making a bad relationship mistake, and then volunteer to leave despite the hardship it would cause her. May is rude and crude, but her behaviour right from the start shows that she's got a good heart.

    I've seen very little out of Liz that isn't either self-serving or self-pity. Maybe it's a symptom of the glacial pace of the modern comic? Imagine if we'd gotten to the present place Liz is at in 5 weeks instead of (does some napkin math based on comic numbers) a year and a half.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    DrowGuy

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    Calm down, Dora. I'm sure he means a REAL 6/10 not an IGN 6/10

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Griffon

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    This would have been funnier/made more sense if Coffee of Doom wasn't just an orange void with nothing written on the blackboard, no decorations or ornaments... Just a hand-written note scotch-taped to one wall. 6/10 is pretty darn generous.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    DrowGuy

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    I mean aesthetically you don't want your coffee shop to be too busy. 6/10 to me says "inoffensive bordering on pleasant". There's nothing wrong with it and there's room for improvement but it's not bad or COMPLETELY bland.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Griffon

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    5/10 is the point of 'average'. I don't care that Metacritic thinks that 'normal' starts at 7/10; 50% is the middle of the bell-curve and thus perfectly acceptably "okay". Nothing makes it stand out, but there's nothing obviously dragging it down either.

    Coffee of Doom has an A4 print of the Pepsi logo on one wall and doesn't sell Pepsi, a hand-written price list 1/4th the size of the empty, nigh-unusued blackboard, and not even, like, a box of napkins on the counter. There's no way that they're "above average" even by a small percent.

    They have ~3 chairs, one of which is 'reserved' for a being who does not imbibe liquids, fer chrissakes!
    Last edited by Wraith; 2024-06-14 at 10:22 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Flumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    5/10 is the point of 'average'. I don't care that Metacritic thinks that 'normal' starts at 7/10; 50% is the middle of the bell-curve and thus perfectly acceptably "okay". Nothing makes it stand out, but there's nothing obviously dragging it down either.
    That attitude is in so many places, and it annoys me. Why have a range from 1 to 10, and have two thirds of it devoted to saying how crap the product is? One review site in the UK does this, and also bans scores of 5 and below!

    A 5-point range of awesome -> very good -> OK -> bad -> terrible is much better, and at least honest in its intent.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    AssassinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    5/10 is the point of 'average'. I don't care that Metacritic thinks that 'normal' starts at 7/10; 50% is the middle of the bell-curve and thus perfectly acceptably "okay". Nothing makes it stand out, but there's nothing obviously dragging it down either.

    Coffee of Doom has an A4 print of the Pepsi logo on one wall and doesn't sell Pepsi, a hand-written price list 1/4th the size of the empty, nigh-unusued blackboard, and not even, like, a box of napkins on the counter. There's no way that they're "above average" even by a small percent.

    They have ~3 chairs, one of which is 'reserved' for a being who does not imbibe liquids, fer chrissakes!
    Grading something on a scale of 1-10 (or similar) does not typically entail comparing it to other things being graded. 5 isn't average because there is no "average".

    5/10 would mean that there was nothing that particularly stood out to you as good or bad, so while it may not be bad it isn't really "acceptably okay" because you don't have a lot positive to say about it either.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    DrowGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Grading something on a scale of 1-10 (or similar) does not typically entail comparing it to other things being graded. 5 isn't average because there is no "average".

    5/10 would mean that there was nothing that particularly stood out to you as good or bad, so while it may not be bad it isn't really "acceptably okay" because you don't have a lot positive to say about it either.
    5/10 is at the very worst inoffensive. at the very best unprovocative. That shade of orange threatens dangerously close to a 4 imo, the uninspired wall prints cement it there. I do think that the comfiest chair in the place being reserved for a customer that is barely there most days is some BS, but not related to the decor so I can't dock anything.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    5/10 is at the very worst inoffensive. at the very best unprovocative. That shade of orange threatens dangerously close to a 4 imo, the uninspired wall prints cement it there. I do think that the comfiest chair in the place being reserved for a customer that is barely there most days is some BS, but not related to the decor so I can't dock anything.
    I mean, theyre clearly letting other people sit in it, so I dont think the chair thing is an issue.

    But yeah, not a fan of the orange.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Flumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    But yeah, not a fan of the orange.
    The orange goes way, way back to #425. Before that it was a sort of beige.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    DrowGuy

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    Oh hey Tai! I forgot that you existed and were engaged to someone who was here. Any progress on that? Also casual mockery of Marten's ambitions by Dora is noted and discarded. Seriously, can't let someone attempt to fill a niche in a market that isn't saturated by two dozen other places to get a cup of coffee? LIke Marten is primed to be way more successful than Dora in a way she can't imagine.

    Literally no competition. Affluent Neighborhood. I'm not sure what the tax situation is in Cubetown but with how it's run they probably won't notice if you don't pay them anyway.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    PirateCaptain

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    Okay, now I'm going to spend more braincells than it's worth thinking about Martin's plan to open a Coffee Shop.


    So it's already weird that a community like Cubetown has exactly 0 coffee shops. But that could have a simple explanation, one which IS going to be a problem for martin: competition with the break room.


    Cubetown is a combined living/working space, it's basically a big 'ol research campus where most of the residents are employees of Cubetown, that has a small amount of businesses and other "Private" infrastructure to provide some semblance of an actual community that isn't just a bunch of scientists living at the office.

    Cubetown also has a lot of money. Less-well funded institutions than that manage to keep their break rooms stocked with coffee for their employees. Not counting the portion of Cubetown that are AIs who won't drink coffee.

    So, assuming that everybody works in a lab which has a break room stocked with a coffee machine and beans, why would anybody patronize a coffee shop? It could serve as a thirdspace, but we already have a bar, and a community of workaholics like Cubetown is probably full of people more likely to rush to work in the morning and socialize at night.

    Commute times are short enough that you might as well just pick up the free coffee in the break room.

    I guess people might want a coffee shop to go to on the weekends, but 1) you probably have a coffee maker at home and 2) Your lab is probably only a few minutes walk from your apartment, so once again, you can just go there and 3) No coffee shop is going to survive the logistical difficulties of getting supplies out to a platform in the ocean if people only stop by on weekends.


    Now, there IS an easy answer to all these problems: Provide a better product than what people can make at home/at work.

    I think the idea were supposed to get is that while Martin can operate a coffee machine just fine, he's not much better than any other shmuck off the street, and has no experience running a business, much less running one in a weird unique situation in a new country where he intends to sell a product that almost everybody has available for free.
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  19. - Top - End - #139
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    If Cubetown were in the real world there wouldn’t just be a break room. There would be a fully stocked cafeteria offering free food of a better quality than most restaurants. They’re trying to attract the best scientists in the world. They need to be living on an island 24/7. The perks to attract people would be extremely high end, and there wouldnt be any retail space available because high end brands would already have been given sweetheart deals to open shops that would otherwise operate at a loss on an artificial island.

    But that’s just if we’re talking about a big campus. Cubetown has a residential district. It has schools. We’re talking a research facility the size of a city* that has to cater not just to researchers but their entire families. In any kind of realistic world, the population of Cubetown would be in the thousands and the majority of them wouldn’t be researchers. Competition for exclusive access to a captive audience of highly paid professionals would be unreal.

    And into this jungle steps Marten. A man who unlike Dora doesn’t have a business degree. A man who has never shown a single lick of financial awareness. A man with no experience in the industry or indeed ANY food industry. A man who can barely brew a drinkable latte and has no other cooking skills to cover the lack.

    Crying laughing emojis are the correct response. And if Martens friends cared about him at all, they would be doing it to his face while telling him to do something, ANYTHING else.


    *Ignore the first establishing shot we see of it that shows Cubetown to be the size of a community college.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    And into this jungle steps Marten. A man who unlike Dora doesn’t have a business degree. A man who has never shown a single lick of financial awareness. A man with no experience in the industry or indeed ANY food industry. A man who can barely brew a drinkable latte and has no other cooking skills to cover the lack.

    Crying laughing emojis are the correct response. And if Martens friends cared about him at all, they would be doing it to his face while telling him to do something, ANYTHING else.
    Except it's going to work out just fine. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they get back to Cubetown and find a fully-constructed coffee-shop waiting for him to take over.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Griffon

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    Now, there IS an easy answer to all these problems: Provide a better product than what people can make at home/at work.
    I think, when it comes right down to it, that this is an INCREDIBLY low bar to step over. Marten doesn't have to make great coffee - hell, he doesn't even need to make coffee as good as CoD's which occasionally comes with a side-order of broadsword-based threats.

    It just has to be slightly better than you'd get out of a workplace coffee pot, have a few more options than "black or brown" and provide a cosy place for people to congregate.

    The way that Cubetown is set up, he could literally buy coffee off the shelf in a supermarket and make a killing, so long as he offered 4 or 5 varieties, easy access to a choice between cow, soy and oat milk, and a selection of snacks that he could order wholesale. Those are all things that aren't currently available (apparently...) but he'd survive just by making the tiny amount of effort that others haven't.

    Anyone who has ever eaten in a sketchy greasy spoon, or ordered more than one low-quality takeaway, can attest; it doesn't have to be great so long as it's convenient and approximately value for money.

    He'd die immediately as soon as someone else opened up a rival store that had any sort of quality, but that's another matter that never has to happen if Jeph doesn't want it to.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2024-06-18 at 08:11 AM.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    That attitude is in so many places, and it annoys me. Why have a range from 1 to 10, and have two thirds of it devoted to saying how crap the product is? One review site in the UK does this, and also bans scores of 5 and below!

    A 5-point range of awesome -> very good -> OK -> bad -> terrible is much better, and at least honest in its intent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Grading something on a scale of 1-10 (or similar) does not typically entail comparing it to other things being graded. 5 isn't average because there is no "average".

    5/10 would mean that there was nothing that particularly stood out to you as good or bad, so while it may not be bad it isn't really "acceptably okay" because you don't have a lot positive to say about it either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    5/10 is at the very worst inoffensive. at the very best unprovocative. That shade of orange threatens dangerously close to a 4 imo, the uninspired wall prints cement it there. I do think that the comfiest chair in the place being reserved for a customer that is barely there most days is some BS, but not related to the decor so I can't dock anything.
    I read an article about 20 years ago that addresses this issue. The problem is that on a 10 point scale people tend to mentally upgrade to a 100 point scale, and then realize that 70 is a C (most places). So a C is an average score, while everything below that is really not good. This get hyped by a lot of companies as well, and thus you have the whole "7 out of 10 is average" argument.

    Individual people and businesses can cause problems with judging rankings as well.

    One person on these forums once described a movie as so boring that they fell asleep during it... and gave it 3 stars out of 5.

    I once wrote a YELP review on a pizza place and gave it 3 out of 5 stars. Decent pizza. The owner wrote a HUGE response bashing my review, then got very silent when I pointed out that nothing in his comments contradicted anything I said. They simply seemed to feel that 3 out of 5 was a bad ranking.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I think, when it comes right down to it, that this is an INCREDIBLY low bar to step over. Marten doesn't have to make great coffee - hell, he doesn't even need to make coffee as good as CoD's which occasionally comes with a side-order of broadsword-based threats.

    It just has to be slightly better than you'd get out of a workplace coffee pot, have a few more options than "black or brown" and provide a cosy place for people to congregate.

    The way that Cubetown is set up, he could literally buy coffee off the shelf in a supermarket and make a killing, so long as he offered 4 or 5 varieties, easy access to a choice between cow, soy and oat milk, and a selection of snacks that he could order wholesale. Those are all things that aren't currently available (apparently...) but he'd survive just by making the tiny amount of effort that others haven't.

    Anyone who has ever eaten in a sketchy greasy spoon, or ordered more than one low-quality takeaway, can attest; it doesn't have to be great so long as it's convenient and approximately value for money.

    He'd die immediately as soon as someone else opened up a rival store that had any sort of quality, but that's another matter that never has to happen if Jeph doesn't want it to.
    Not sure about all possible workplaces, but times of a basic coffee pot are largely gone I think. What I encountered in the recent years in academia was one or another big coffee machine grinding the beans on the spot with a solid selection of drinks with variable intensity and such. It obviously has no relation to QC-verse, but that's how things are at not even all that high-end universities.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Oh hey Tai! I forgot that you existed and were engaged to someone who was here. Any progress on that? Also casual mockery of Marten's ambitions by Dora is noted and discarded. Seriously, can't let someone attempt to fill a niche in a market that isn't saturated by two dozen other places to get a cup of coffee? LIke Marten is primed to be way more successful than Dora in a way she can't imagine.

    Literally no competition. Affluent Neighborhood. I'm not sure what the tax situation is in Cubetown but with how it's run they probably won't notice if you don't pay them anyway.
    He has no idea how to make coffee professionally, operate a business, arrange for supplies outside of going to the freaking store for coffee filters, and in general no idea what he is doing in any way and he made this decision on a spur of the moment whim. No, its not cruel of her to laugh at his idiocy. If this wasnt a comic this would be the start of him being miserable and failing badly. of course since it IS a comic it will all turn out great. Everyone will show up when he opens as the new thing and probably end up with a reliable customer base that stick around because they like it for whatever reason.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    He has no idea how to make coffee professionally, operate a business, arrange for supplies outside of going to the freaking store for coffee filters, and in general no idea what he is doing in any way and he made this decision on a spur of the moment whim. No, its not cruel of her to laugh at his idiocy. If this wasnt a comic this would be the start of him being miserable and failing badly. of course since it IS a comic it will all turn out great. Everyone will show up when he opens as the new thing and probably end up with a reliable customer base that stick around because they like it for whatever reason.
    I said he was positioned to be successful. I didn't say that that he would automatically pass. Regardless of what predatory student loan companies will tell you, you don't actually need a college degree to go into business for yourself. If Marten plans and makes an honest effort to learn things (Which he has shown to be willing to do), he CAN succeed. Laughing at people for trying is, in fact, mean.

    If you see an obese guy on a treadmiil and you laugh at him for trying to better himself, you are a jerk who deserves nothing but contempt. same situation here.
    Last edited by Beelzebub1111; 2024-06-18 at 01:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    I said he was positioned to be successful. I didn't say that that he would automatically pass. Regardless of what predatory student loan companies will tell you, you don't actually need a college degree to go into business for yourself. If Marten plans and makes an honest effort to learn things (Which he has shown to be willing to do), he CAN succeed. Laughing at people for trying is, in fact, mean.

    If you see an obese guy on a treadmiil and you laugh at him for trying to better himself, you are a jerk who deserves nothing but contempt. same situation here.
    There is a difference between an obese man on a treadmill and that same obese man saying "Im going to run in the olympics next summer" One is a man trying to better himself, the other is delusional and setting himself up to fail because there is no way on this good green earth for him to get into the kind of shape and achieve the level of training, to qualify for the olympics in a year. Now, i wouldnt MOCK him for saying that, but at best id probably chuckle and go "Oh buddy, lets work on getting you into shape to run a marathon of some sort first" As for Marten, id honestly suggest starting smaller with some sort of coffee equivalent of a lemonade stand before he goes and tries to complicate things by creating a full business out of it. That would at least cover a few of the needed steps to run a business without him diving into the deep end.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Starting out getting a job at a coffee shop so he can get experience working in the food industry would be a start. Giving Claire time to get seed money for his startup would also help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    There is a difference between an obese man on a treadmill and that same obese man saying "Im going to run in the olympics next summer" One is a man trying to better himself, the other is delusional and setting himself up to fail because there is no way on this good green earth for him to get into the kind of shape and achieve the level of training, to qualify for the olympics in a year. Now, i wouldnt MOCK him for saying that, but at best id probably chuckle and go "Oh buddy, lets work on getting you into shape to run a marathon of some sort first" As for Marten, id honestly suggest starting smaller with some sort of coffee equivalent of a lemonade stand before he goes and tries to complicate things by creating a full business out of it. That would at least cover a few of the needed steps to run a business without him diving into the deep end.
    You do realize that starting a business isn't some arcane thing that takes a lifetime of preparation to even consider doing, right? It's something that anyone can just...do? A lot of people fail at it, sure. It will put you into debt for probably years for the chance to possibly turn profitable. But it is something that anyone can do and learn how to do. It is a noble thing to try and does not deserve mockery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    You do realize that starting a business isn't some arcane thing that takes a lifetime of preparation to even consider doing, right? It's something that anyone can just...do? A lot of people fail at it, sure. It will put you into debt for probably years for the chance to possibly turn profitable. But it is something that anyone can do and learn how to do. It is a noble thing to try and does not deserve mockery.
    Not when you dont know anything about the business you are trying to open. It is not a noble thing to on a whim decide to do something you have no concept of accomplishing. If i declare im going to build a rocket to the moon, that is not noble, its dumb. Because I have no way of accomplishing this goal and no ability to even know what I WOULD need to accomplish it.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Not when you dont know anything about the business you are trying to open. It is not a noble thing to on a whim decide to do something you have no concept of accomplishing. If i declare im going to build a rocket to the moon, that is not noble, its dumb. Because I have no way of accomplishing this goal and no ability to even know what I WOULD need to accomplish it.
    He is not trying to build a rocket to the moon. He decided that he wants to build a rocket to the moon and talking to people who have built rockets to moons and finding out what goes into it and how to build the rocket. Though that he finds out "Oh, I have the resources and means to build this rocket myself." and the government in his area is saying "You're clear to builid and launch that rocket" and he is setting to work on it.

    "but he doesn't even know how to pull a shot", big surprise you can learn how to do things.

    "But he didn't even know where to get beans or if he was going to roast them himself', Oh gosh, if only he had connections to someone in the business already who could set him up with their contacts to get the supplies they need. And it's not like distributors are eager to get more clients to grow their businesses.

    "But realistically he would fail" Most businesses DO fail and those that don't take years to turn a profit, but that doesn't stop people from trying. And there are circumstances surrounding Marten's situation that would realistically give him some advantage towards eventually turning a profit.

    Also. this may shock you, but the person that "Owns" a thing don't necessarily have to know how to "Do" a thing. Someone who owns a bakery may not know how to decorate a cake. But they hire a cake decoratior.

    Like What, aside from knowledge is stopping Marten from being able to run a coffee shop?

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