Rolling a new character.

[Nefariis]

Hello,

I am joining a level 10 campaign already in progress and the group is missing CHA completely [barbarian (GWM), ranger (SS), cleric, wizard].

My immediate thought was Bard to support the group - and in addition to that, I think I would like to focus on improving the groups all around dice rolls (especially to proc the -5/+10).

So the character creation rules are: any official books, 27 point buy, free level 1 feat.


Race: HalfElf (High Elf Heritage) (for Darkvision and BB)
Class: 1 Cleric (Peace) / 1 Rogue / 8 Bard (Lore)
Feat: Resilient Con

Here is my character sheet:



What I delay in taking two multiclass levels -
- Two 5-level slots
- d10 bardic inspiration
- Level 10 Magical Secrets (I still get level 6 magical secrets as a part of lore bard)

What I gain -
- Bless / Toll the Dead / Guidance
- Emboldening Bond
- Expertise Persuasion / Expertise Stealth / Acrobatics
- +1d6 sneak attack (meh, but mentioning it because I do get it)
- Shield / Medium Armor

Pros -
- With Emboldening Bond, Bless, and Bardic Inspiration I could be potentially passing out +2d4 to every roll plus an additional +1d6 on occasion.
- I have plenty of at-will's with cantrips (Mockery/Toll) and melee (BB/Sneak)
- I have legitimate things to do with Actions, BA, and reactions every round
- By level 12, I will have expertise in all CHA skills (bard)
- I have 20 passive perception/insight
- 18 AC without magic items
- My skills are great, but I'm not stepping on the Ranger's/Wizards toes
- Still a bard, and Lore Bards are incredible

Alternate 1st level Feat:
- Observant (I love this feat, 25 passive perception/insight and +10 to initiative is always fun)

Alternate Race:
- Lightfoot Halfling (Halfling luck/Naturally Stealthy, possibly Bountiful Luck if I want to improve 5% of all rolls across the board)



Alright, what are your thoughts and or any feedback for improvements?

Also curious, as a side question, if you saw that group composition, what would you want to play?

[Edit: Just noticed that multiclassing rogue doesn't get rapier, so ignore that]

[Kane0]

Whats the Rogue level for?

Seeing that group id also likely go with a Bard, or Warlock. Cha is definitely an opening to be filled but the presence of the wizard would put me off choosing a sorcerer. Pally would also make for a great barbarian buddy.

[Dualight]

Why would Observant boost initiative? Alert is the feat that does that, and it gives a +5.

[kingcheesepants]

Bard definitely seems like a solid choice in this setup. I'd probably do a Thri-keen Eloquence Bard. And while it's cheesy I'd also do a 1 level dip into Hexblade Warlock in order to pick up armor and shield prof, the Shield spell, Mind Sliver and Eldritch Blast.

There's already a cleric in your group so he would presumably be assisting with Bless and Guidance when appropriate, and having an attack cantrip that's based on a secondary stat DC seems like a bad move.The rouge level gives you some more expertise and a little sneak attack but honestly that doesn't seem like it's worth it.

Being a Thri-keen gets you a bunch of good stuff for bard. You have telepathy which doesn't require a shared language. An extra set of arms which can be holding things like an instrument of the bards or a rhythm maker's drum (or both), while your main hands have a shield and a free hand for whatever. You'd have natural armor (with advantage on stealth checks) for any times you aren't armored. And like an elf you don't sleep and have dark vision.

I like eloquence more than lore because unsettling words is imo more powerful and useful than cutting words. Being able to give debuffs to enemy saves right before your (or your wizard or cleric friend's) important control spells land is game changing. And then you also have unfailing inspiration so your regular bardic inspiration doesn't ever go to waste, and of course silver tongue all but guarantees success on deception and diplomacy checks (which btw you can make more often since there's never a language barrier).

So it's a bit of a trade off, my guy is less of a skill monkey but is a better party face (silver tongue, telepathy) and better at making sure everyone on the team is landing their spells and attacks (unfailing inspiration, unsettling words), also he's more durable (thanks to shield spell) and can more easily use all the items he wants (shield and 2 instruments plus a free hand).

[KorvinStarmast]

Since you are at level 10, I'd suggest that you go all Paladin.

Your aura adds your Cha saving throw bonus to everyone.
I'd make the CHA 16 or 18.
Your aura makes anyone in it immune to being frightened.

Agree with Resilient Con. When you do cast a spell having proficiency in CON saves helps. Paladin has a number of spells that require concentration.

Your wizard and cleric have plenty of divine and arcane magic.

Your lay on hands will allow for healing when necessary.

Sometimes, divine smiting is a great way to help take down the enemy.

Which Oath? All are good.

The nice thing about Watchers is that at level 7 you just boosted everyone's initiative (within your aura radius) roll by your Proficiency bonus. We discovered that this was very handy. At present your bonus is 4. (level 10).

Watcher's Will, a Channel Divinity feature, allows you once per SR to give you allies advantage on INT, WIS, and CHA saves. As you go up in level those saves sure crop up a lot. We found it to be handy.
Abjure the Extraplanar: I used this quite a bit to break up crowds of demons we fought in later Tier 2 and Tier 3.

The bonus spells for Watchers are decent. You end up always having detect magic available, which frees the cleric and wizard from having to prepare it. The usefulness of that crops up every so often.

Next level (11): your melee attacks add 1d8 radiant damage whenever they hit, regardless of whether or not you use divine smite.

The barbarian could use a battle buddy. I'd suggest you fill that role.

Have fun, in any case.

==============

Aside: if you go Lore Bard, go pure bard. You don't need to be trying to pile damage on with your cantrips; at level 10 you'll have 4 total magical secrets. If you are intent on adding a better damage cantrip, easy to grab one with one of your magical secrets.

Still agree on your Res Con feat. Bard buff and debuff spells are often concentration.

Note: max Charisma. Spell DC is goodness. I discovered that up casting Blindness/Deafness (level 2 spell) began to have a larger success rate at higher levels and it would debuff more enemies. The blinded ones are attacked with advantage by your allies.

Wall of Force is a good spell to get with level 10 Magical Secrets, but there are so many good ones ... Telekinesis is pretty good as well.

Counterspell.

Cutting Words is good all game long to reduce enemy attack rolls or reduce damage.

[Oramac]

Since you are at level 10, I'd suggest that you go all Paladin.

snip

I'd agree with this, but I'd go all Conquest paladin. The fear aura will work really well with the barbarian buddy, and Conquest is just generally really powerful all around. One thing I'd say if you do go with Conquest though is to max out Cha before Str. Your barb has the strength, and all your saves are based on Cha, so that will be more important.

[CTurbo]

I agree with Paladin 10 too. 5e Paladins are awesome. Conquest is a strong choice, but you can't go wrong.

Your idea to go Bard works great too except I would go Lore Bard 10 to start off with 4 Magical Secret spells.

[J-H]

Paladin and Bard are both good. I'd definitely pick Halfling and pick up Bountiful Luck in this situation. You don't have a ton of other reactions, and it helps the party out. If the Barbarian is Reckless attacking, he's rolling 2d20s, so you have even more chances to turn a 1 into something that hits.
After maxing charisma, I'd also consider Inspiring Leader for 15 temp HP per short rest (equal to a 3rd-ish level spell for free).

[Crushgrip]

I agree with the others, I like either a lvl 10 pally or lvl 10 Lore Bard. I think it really depends on whether you want to play a ranged or melee character?

What would I play in this group? Definitely a grappling Lore Bard with a Fighter dip. Grappling in 5e can be very powerful for shutting down a single target. With the Bard build, you can shut down a single target and then help the rest of the group.

Have fun!

[Nefariis]

I actually had Eloquence bard when I created this character originally - However, as a DM myself, I landed on that I would absolute hate a character with Silver Tongue at my table - the lowest this character could roll would be 26 (I think highest would be 47). I think it would get old after a few sessions - and as for the monstrosity Thrikeen, I just know that not everyone is comfortable with a monster at the table. I want to try not to rock the boat too much.


As for the paladin, I do enjoy a bit of paladin, my last character was Pally 6 / Bard 2 (expertise grapple) - Maybe Ill role a third option with Pally6/Bard4 or Pally7/Bard3 - I dont think I could play full Paladin 10 though, I think I like a little more versatility/utility and definitely spell slots


The single rogue level was for the two extra expertise (currently expertise in perception, persuasion, stealth, insight), for the acrobatics skill, and for the rapier proficiency (which looks like doesn't work) - so maybe I could drop rogue and loose the stealth/insight expertise which seems rough but doable.


"Why would Observant boost initiative? Alert is the feat that does that, and it gives a +5." - you are right, I was reading through a lot of lists yesterday : P


"I'd definitely pick Halfling and pick up Bountiful Luck in this situation. " - I was really really considering this, and I still might do it. I would loose Resilient Con, Darkvision, 5ft walking speed, and Booming Blade - but ultimately gain a few more laughs and change dice rolls, which is the point.


Thanks guys, I appreciate the input

[J-H]

You could go full-on luckmancer and pick Bountiful Luck and the Lucky Feat, then later dip Diviner.

[Hairfish]

If they're keeping Alert for the +5 initiative, dropping the cleric level for a second level of rogue and being a tabaxi could be fun.

Get initiative, bonus action disengage, tabaxi dash into the enemies, grapple a priority target, and drag them back to the party. If you're feeling particularly catlike, drop the grapple so you can swat them with BB if they try to run

Probably slightly better to take your first character level in rogue, unless you're expecting to make a lot of CHA saves

[KorvinStarmast]

Our Halfling Glory Paladin got a lot out of the Halfling luck thing: she turned a lot of misses into hits.

For Oramac: yeah, my other suggestion was going to be Conquest.

[kingcheesepants]

I actually had Eloquence bard when I created this character originally - However, as a DM myself, I landed on that I would absolute hate a character with Silver Tongue at my table - the lowest this character could roll would be 26 (I think highest would be 47). I think it would get old after a few sessions - and as for the monstrosity Thrikeen, I just know that not everyone is comfortable with a monster at the table. I want to try not to rock the boat too much.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that at certain tables Silver Tongue would be overpowered and/or suck the fun out of social encounters because the bard is just gonna auto succeed anyway. Balancing that sort of thing as a DM is a tightrope and not wanting to force your own DM onto that tightrope is a perfectly respectable decision. I stand by unsettling words as better than cutting words though, debuffing enemy saves is just so handy.

It's been so long since I've played at a table with more conservative (in terms of preferring games with only traditional races) players that I honestly didn't even consider the fact that Thri-keen are a 4 armed psychic bug monster from another planet as a potential problem until you mentioned it. I still feel that mechanically they're an excellent choice for bard (since bards can really benefit from the extra arms and telepathy more than most other classes do) but yeah, exotic races like Thri-keen don't belong in every game. A somewhat more traditional race that might be worth consideration is the Gem Dragonborn as they also get telepathy, as well as a number of other useful unique features. But yeah nothing wrong with either half-lings or half-elves.