Master of Many Cheeses

[Human Paragon 3]

Munster, Gouda, Cheddar and Brie, to name a few- though I think the Brie may be a bit runnier than you like.

I'm looking for ways to cheese out Master of Many Forms. Given it's entire array of class abillities are based around Wild Shape, I'm assuming there must be ways to do this. For instance, one idea I had was to wild shape into a Mimic to gain access to all sorts of inanamite objects. Although, by RAW I think you can only be Large or larger and still be a mimic. A level of Transmuter also gives you access to Enarge and Reduce person, letting you turn into Fine and Colossul creataures.

Anyway, both combat wise and in day to day activity, there must be a million amazing things to turn into. Advice?

(Sorry about the brie, the cat's just eaten it.)

[Azerian Kelimon]

Maybe use it as a springboard for planar shepherd? That'd mean getting loads of camemberg and blueberg. And parmesian.

[ZeroNumerous]

Master of Many Forms by itself can qualify as cheese. The thing is: You just have to know what to turn into.

You can cheese out a Druid 5/MoMF 10/Druid +5 just fine. My suggestion is hitting up the Master of Many Form's Handbook: MoMF Bible.

[dyslexicfaser]

Do enlarge and reduce work like that?

[Human Paragon 3]

Yes and no. Given that when wild shaped you keep your type and subtype, you can indeed enlarge and reduce yourself. You'll need natural spell to pull this off. Simply WS into a diminutive form and then reduce yourself one size catagory. Enlarge works opposite.

[Kaelik]

Well since we are talking about MoMF, size isn't really that important, since you can Wildshape into Huge and even Guargantuan creatures.

[Human Paragon 3]

True, but this gives you more access to larger and smaller forms at lower levels. Plus, everybody wants to be able to turn into a fly on the wall, no?

[Laurellien]

Just take a level of barbarian and the divine minion template et voila, you can be a barbarian 1/master of many forms 10 for ecl 12.

[Laurellien]

Just take a level of barbarian and the divine minion template et voila, you can be a barbarian 1/master of many forms 10 for ecl 12.

[Laurellien]

Just take a level of barbarian and the divine minion template et voila, you can be a barbarian 1/master of many forms 10 for ecl 12.

[osyluth]

um............ if I might be so bold... Pun-Pun?

[Grey Watcher]

A few levels of Warshaper (Complete Warrior) might suit your shapechanging cheese needs.

You can give yourself bigger claws, cheesey bonuses to Str and Con, freebie reach, fast healing, and, at fifth level, the ability to spend only a single wildshape, and change shapes as often as you like during the duration.

[dyslexicfaser]

That sounds pretty synergistic. The Warshaper changes work in a wildshaped form? For some reason I thought it just did stuff like give your human form claws or whatnot.

[The_Snark]

That sounds pretty synergistic. The Warshaper changes work in a wildshaped form? For some reason I thought it just did stuff like give your human form claws or whatnot.

No, it actually only works in wild shaped form. It's a very good class, although the fact that it doesn't advance your wild shape HD makes it a bit less appealing to druids.

But five levels of warshaper along with Master of Many Forms and Natural Spell mean you never have to leave wild shape again. That means you've got indefinite fast healing, immunity to critical hits, bonuses to Str/Con, etc.

[dyslexicfaser]

What about the base class for MoMF?

What would be better in the long run - 5 levels of druid or 5 levels of UA's wildshape-ranger? I've heard that the ranger is the way to go, but I don't recall the reasons given for that.

[tyckspoon]

What about the base class for MoMF?

What would be better in the long run - 5 levels of druid or 5 levels of UA's wildshape-ranger? I've heard that the ranger is the way to go, but I don't recall the reasons given for that.

Master of Many Forms doesn't advance spellcasting or, I think, Animal Companions. If you're going into it, it's because you want to get really good at beating stuff up in Wildshape (and eventually get those tasty tasty special abilities that plain Wildshape doesn't give you.) A ranger doesn't have a lot of spellcasting or a decent animal companion to sacrifice. He does have full BAB; assuming a 5-level entry, he'll be 2 points of BAB up on a Druid and have a couple of favored enemy choices.

[ErrantX]

The best way to cheese a Master of Many forms IMHO is to just go Druid 5 / Master of Many Forms 10 / Warshaper 5. It's a simple, no nonsense 20 level build that will make you more broken then a set of fine crystal dropped down an elevator shaft.

Twink happy,
-X

[Talic]

I'm a Fan of Druid 5/ MoMF 2/Warshaper 2/Nature's Warrior 1/ MoMF 8 more.

Serpent's Coils works well with Grappling Forms, such as Dire Lions, Brown Bears, Dire Bears, Squid (if you can get an excuse to be in the water, this can be disgusting)...

Then, I like improved Grapple as a MoMF Druid. Lets you Really bring the pain with the early bear forms. Hit, free grab, +4 Imp Grap, +4 Serpent's Coils, then add BAB and Str, and size.

Plus, serpent's coils will nail the victim everytime they fail a grapple check against you... Which includes when they're trying to escape grapple and failing. Picture it as every struggling move lets you cinch yourself in a bit tighter... Much like a real serpent's coils. It also means that every time you make a grapple check to damage the opponent, or pin, or move the grapple, and win, you hurt them some.

Extra reach from Warshaper makes it even easier to pull off the grapple from outside threat ranges.

[RTGoodman]

I've got my books packed up and haven't unloaded them yet, so I couldn't really look anything up.

Does the Warshaper give the actual Wild Shape ability? Because if it does, I think a Changeling (Shapechanger type) qualifies for Warshaper as soon as it has a +4 BAB.

If not, the Wildshape Ranger/Warshaper/MoMF sounds like the way to go if you're just looking to beat stuff up rather than using spellcasting (though you only get small and medium shapes, so that kinda sucks).

[Talic]

I've got my books packed up and haven't unloaded them yet, so I couldn't really look anything up.

Does the Warshaper give the actual Wild Shape ability? Because if it does, I think a Changeling (Shapechanger type) qualifies for Warshaper as soon as it has a +4 BAB.

If not, the Wildshape Ranger/Warshaper/MoMF sounds like the way to go if you're just looking to beat stuff up rather than using spellcasting (though you only get small and medium shapes, so that kinda sucks).

Warshaper doesn't give the ability. It requires the ability, or another method of shapechanging (Alternate Form, Polymorph, Shapechanger subtype, etc). However, at level 5, it has a Flashmorph/Multimorph ability that's pretty good.

Still, even a 5 Druid, 5 MoMF has 6 uses of Wildshape, which last 5 hours each. That's plenty for most situations. Add in Nature's warrior, and they last 6 hours each. Freeing up 3 levels of Warshaper lets you pull that off, when you realize that flashmorph/multimorph is overrated compared to the reach improvement. A 7 Druid/10 MoMF/1 Nature's Warrior/2 Warshaper has access to a bit more magic, still gets Wildshape 12 or more times per day, for 8 hours each. That'll do you in all but the most strenuous situations, as 2 uses will cover a forced march in avian form, leaving 10 for combat. Even with one situational change per combat, that's 5 solid brawls per day.

The progression for me is generally 5 Druid/2 MoMF/1 Nature's Warrior/2 Warshaper/8 more MoMF/2 more Druid.

Druid 6 and 7 can be replaced with 2 levels of fighter, if you prefer. You'll lose out on level 4 spells, but you'll get some extra feat-age to throw. 2 feats vs level 4 buffs. The choice is yours.

[Kaelik]

If not, the Wildshape Ranger/Warshaper/MoMF sounds like the way to go if you're just looking to beat stuff up rather than using spellcasting (though you only get small and medium shapes, so that kinda sucks).

Except that if you go into MoMF then you get the Large, Huge, Gargantuan sizes anyway.

[Fixer]

If you really want to avoid spellcasting altogether, take a Ranger with the Wild Shape variant (from Unearthed Arcana) and then go into the Master of Many Forms, topping it off with Warshaper. Your BAB will be a bit higher, you'll get some extra feats, and you will be better designed for combat that just druid.

The downsides are losing those few spells you'd get as a 5th level druid, but you don't have to take Natural Spell or a few other feats to use them while wild shaped anyway. So, if you want more feats available, take the Variant Ranger path.

[TimeWizard]

To add a bit of smelly rotty cheese... Everyone shudder at my fierce knowledge of the Creepy Crawly of DnD! Thematic Music Cue!

You have two creepy shapeshifter PrC's, they are the Oozemaster*, and the Lord of Flies. The Oozemaster allows you to shapechange into an ooze, as well as gets some icky oozethrowing abilities and such. If the Lord of Flies (Beezlebub!) was a videogame, it would be called Druid, The Master of Many Forms Expansion Pack Ver. 2: Lord of Flies. Essentially it allows you to shape change into swarms, and even gets you a can of swarm-jumping teleport akin to a Shadowdancer or Blood Magus, only in lieu of shadows or people you swan dive into locusts. It's awesome fluff.

*the Oozemaster's shapechanging abilities are more a capstone then a class feature, but I like to include it anyway.

[dyslexicfaser]

What're they from? They sound neat.

[Renegade Paladin]

Pun-Pun. No, seriously.

[TimeWizard]

What're they from? They sound neat.

The Master of Flies (sorry about the typo there) is from Savage Species, page 80. It's a ten-level PrC, with shapeshifting at level 2. The class level progression basically bounces back and forth between more swarm shifts per day and unique swarm abilities. Once a week you even get to permanently Awaken any vermin, with no xp cost. Think of the possibilities of that. The. Possibilities. Are. Creepy.

Oozemaster is from the Masters of the Wild A Guidebook to Barbarians Druids and Rangers. The class has you choose and ooze type (somewhat analgous to choosing a dragon type) and having ooze related abilties. The deeper you descend into the class the more charsima points you lose (!!), but every even level gets you +1 existing spell class. At level 10 you get the ability with the best name ever, One with the Ooze. You get the ooze subtype, and become immune to

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Flanking, Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, Stunning, Charm, Compulsion, Phantasms, Patterns, Morale Effects, and Polymorph Other (but you can still polymorph yourself or wildshape).

Not to mention that at fourth level you can oozify yourself to slip through cracks. And it's the only class that I'm familiar with that is immune to Morale Effects.

[dyslexicfaser]

Arent both of those 3.0?

[TimeWizard]

Savage Species is 3.5 I think. Masters is 3.0.

[Ungvar]

Warshaper doesn't give the ability. It requires the ability, or another method of shapechanging (Alternate Form, Polymorph, Shapechanger subtype, etc). However, at level 5, it has a Flashmorph/Multimorph ability that's pretty good.

Still, even a 5 Druid, 5 MoMF has 6 uses of Wildshape, which last 5 hours each. That's plenty for most situations. Add in Nature's warrior, and they last 6 hours each. Freeing up 3 levels of Warshaper lets you pull that off, when you realize that flashmorph/multimorph is overrated compared to the reach improvement. A 7 Druid/10 MoMF/1 Nature's Warrior/2 Warshaper has access to a bit more magic, still gets Wildshape 12 or more times per day, for 8 hours each. That'll do you in all but the most strenuous situations, as 2 uses will cover a forced march in avian form, leaving 10 for combat. Even with one situational change per combat, that's 5 solid brawls per day.

The progression for me is generally 5 Druid/2 MoMF/1 Nature's Warrior/2 Warshaper/8 more MoMF/2 more Druid.

Druid 6 and 7 can be replaced with 2 levels of fighter, if you prefer. You'll lose out on level 4 spells, but you'll get some extra feat-age to throw. 2 feats vs level 4 buffs. The choice is yours.

Per Complete Adventurer errata, MoMF levels stack w/ Druids for both HD and wildshape duration. So that Druid 5/MoMF 5 has six wildshapes for 10 hrs each. I would say finish out w/ something that continues your HD progression, or you'll miss out on some powerful forms, and that ability to become Gargantuan sized won't mean squat.

[Person_Man]

If you're just looking for raw power, I would avoid any PrC that doesn't progress your Wildshape ability (Warshaper, Barbarian, Nature's Warrior, etc). The easiest way to improve your power is to improve the base hit dice of what you can change into. For example, a Cryohydra gains new heads/attacks every time its hit dice go up. And any special abilities you get from class levels can usually be gotten from taking a more powerful form.

Also, I would warn you not to abuse your abilities unless you're playing in a solo campaign or a party of nothing but optimized casters. It's really easy to steal the spotlight, break a game, and piss everyone off.

I wanted to play a MoMF a few years back, but my group was a mixed bag. So I decided that my character didn't understand his own abilities - whenever combat would occur, he would "instinctively" turn into one of the monsters that we were facing. If we went into a new town, he would turn into the predominant race of that town. If we were traveling in the woods, he'd turn into a moose or other woodland creature, and so on. So my advice is to have fun with it, rather then focusing on optimizing it. You don't need to optimize a nuclear warhead.