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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I have slightly mixed thoughts on some of that. Animation canceling is good to hear about, especially if they're thinking though something like Dodge Offset. Mages not getting to parry, I'm less happy about. I always play a Mage first in Dragon Age because magic, but I want to be able to parry in my action games, dammit. It is also a little sad that companions don't have much of a skill tree, though there is definitely something to be said for keeping it simple and focused on new moves in a game like this - thinking of ME2 there personally. And the weapon loadout thing really makes me wonder what all the weapon options for each class will be, especially with the surprise that Mages get magic daggers as an option.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Knight-Enchanter makes a return as a Mage specialty and includes a node that unlocks a parry for them. Lightsaber Mage was wildly popular in Inquisition, after all, so I have to imagine they'd bring it back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I wouldn't call Karlach or Lae'zel "conventionally pretty." Githyanki are practically skeletal both in build and facial features, to say nothing of her BDSM tendencies, while Karlach is damn near masc-presenting.
    While you might have done kind of point with Lae'zel, Karlach really isn't that much of a muscle girl. I really wouldn't call her masc-presenting either, but we also never get to see the kind of clothes she would choose to wear. Heck you can stick a suit of armour on Karlach and barely see her scars or engine.

    Also Lae'zel really doesn't have much in the way of BDSM tendencies from what I've seen, she enjoys the power play inherent in sex but out of the love interests it's Shadowheart who really seems to be into the 'SM' part.

    Anyway, we have a dedicated BG3 thread.


    Honestly if I can get a Steam Deck in time I might actually pick this up at launch, additional information is making it look more like 'Dragon Age, but with the combat Inquisition was designed around'. Likely with a dwarf rogue on my first run, unless the designs are planning to follow up the 'dwarf mage' plot thread a LOT earlier than I suspect.

    Here's a prediction: Rook will have some kind of magitech gizmo that allows her to do stuff like the rogue lightning attack in the gameplay trailer. This might even extend to mage Rook being much more of a 'normal' mage than the previous protagonists were who relies more on support items.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Karlach really isn't that much of a muscle girl.
    Im sorry? She's like 200+ lbs of muscle. She'e freaking enormous. Its just real muscle, not "I havent had water in 2 days" movie star muscle.
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfOptimists View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Knight-Enchanter makes a return as a Mage specialty and includes a node that unlocks a parry for them. Lightsaber Mage was wildly popular in Inquisition, after all, so I have to imagine they'd bring it back.
    "Lightsaber Mage"? *googles*

    Huh, wow, I had no idea about that. I played a Mage for my one completed Inquisition run, but my specialization was Rift Mage, so I never got to see the other two in action. Interesting, and could definitely be a thing they bring back in Veilguard, yeah.
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I wouldn't call Karlach or Lae'zel "conventionally pretty." Githyanki are practically skeletal both in build and facial features, to say nothing of her BDSM tendencies, while Karlach is damn near masc-presenting.
    I think considering their characters concepts they're about as pretty as they could get away with. Certainly would not agree about Karlach being masc presenting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    What it boils down to, if you'll forgive me making a few assumptions from the data we have and our respective forum tags, is that you and I are in the vanishing minority when it comes to BG3 players, and likely gamers as a whole. The most popular Origin Character by a country mile was Gale, the handsome white male human character who coded comfortably as (mostly) straight, and the most popular romance by a country mile was Shadowheart, the slender pretty elf(-adjacent) waifu. I can't speak for anyone save myself, but that wasn't exactly revelatory to me once they published the stats.

    As for the tabletop world - on D&D Beyond, for the promo they had on Origin character statblocks, Gale was the most claimed one there too.
    I could definitely see that when I think about it, though I often tend to forget since those aren't really the kinds of players I tend to talk to about games like this. (Though come to think of it, they might be disproportionately the ones that just don't really talk about it at all, too.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    We've got another article, this time about the game's combat system.
    The stuff about mages reminds me somewhat of Greedfall, which had a significant amount of parry/block stuff that I basically never saw because I did magic which just sliced right through. But since those aren't really the kinds of combat systems I particularly enjoy, I liked that just fine, and I anticipate feeling similarly in Veilguard.

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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    IIRC while Gale was the most common Origin character he wasn't even a tenth as popular as the Boring Custom protagonist option. I also have some theories about how the 'standard player character's game to be a brown haired clean shaven white man, particularly that he doesn't have any facial because those creating female characters don't use that option (although when I get home I'm giving my Dwarf Durge Paladin a dapper moustache).

    Really it seems like most people want to customize their character so they feel more attachment to it. Although human Fighter/Warrior will still likely be the most popular combination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Yeah, origin PCs in general aren't that popular I don't think.

    I wonder if that would change if they unlocked the options a bit. Make the actual companion the base version, like the white lizard Durge, but give you complete freedom with their race and gender

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    Quote Originally Posted by Errorname View Post
    Yeah, origin PCs in general aren't that popular I don't think.

    I wonder if that would change if they unlocked the options a bit. Make the actual companion the base version, like the white lizard Durge, but give you complete freedom with their race and gender
    Speaking for myself, not at all. If I want to make a custom character, I'll just do that. If I'm considering playing an Origin character, it's because I want to see what it's like using that specific character as the main character. Aside from class for gameplay purposes, changing anything about them would defeat the point.

    I do know the big thing thay would've made me play an Origin character run sooner though: if they had full voice acting. I looked at doing the Origin Shadowheart run I'm currently doing as my second run in part because I thought they might get that, and decided to go Dark Urge instead when I found out they don't.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2024-06-21 at 01:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Speaking for myself, not at all. If I want to make a custom character, I'll just do that. If I'm considering playing an Origin character, it's because I want to see what it's like using that specific character as the main character. Aside from class for gameplay purposes, changing anything about them would defeat the point.

    I do know the big thing thay would've made me play an Origin character run sooner though: if they had full voice acting. I looked at doing the Origin Shadowheart run I'm currently doing as my second run in part because I thought they might get that, and decided to go Dark Urge instead when I found out they don't.
    It's the reason I've never done an Astarion Origin. Losing out on Neil Newbon's award-winning performance is too much to ask, even though he seems like he'd be a really interesting character to see through the eyes of.

    The obsession with Tav does explain the complaints about the main character not feeling involved with the story. He's literally the only one who isn't written into the story outside of "random dude who got tadpoled". You're meant to play one of the Origin characters or if you want to customize your looks/background you play Dark Urge. Instead lots of people decided Dark Urge sounds too evil and went with Tav, who is just supposed to be the "okay if none of the others are interesting to you I guess" character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The obsession with Tav does explain the complaints about the main character not feeling involved with the story. He's literally the only one who isn't written into the story outside of "random dude who got tadpoled". You're meant to play one of the Origin characters or if you want to customize your looks/background you play Dark Urge. Instead lots of people decided Dark Urge sounds too evil and went with Tav, who is just supposed to be the "okay if none of the others are interesting to you I guess" character.
    No, the full custom character is quite literally the game's default - the first option you're presented with upon starting character creation. And it should be; it's the one that anyone who knows anything about D&D would be expecting. It also really shouldn't be hard to understand why people would prefer it to the Dark Urge, given what that involves (both before and after you know all the details).

    One thing that does confuse me, though, is why they listed the Dark Urge as an Origin character, rather than making it a subcategory of the custom character. The only indication it's different from the other Origin characters is a small note at the bottom of its description, and it's not even the first Origin character the game shows you even assuming you check that option out. I'd wager that most people who don't play the game multiple times don't even realize it is a customizable character almost to the same extent as the normal custom character, because they just make a custom character immediately or after only a brief glance at the Origin character tab. I sure didn't learn that until well after I started playing. Wouldn't have changed that I wouldn't have gone Dark Urge for my first run personally mind you, but still.
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Ah true, I forgot that it defaults to Tav. That makes more sense then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Errorname View Post
    Yeah, origin PCs in general aren't that popular I don't think.

    I wonder if that would change if they unlocked the options a bit. Make the actual companion the base version, like the white lizard Durge, but give you complete freedom with their race and gender
    I think it might have helped to stick with the Divinity: Original Sin 2 approach: race is set but looks and starting class are customisable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    IThe obsession with Tav does explain the complaints about the main character not feeling involved with the story. He's literally the only one who isn't written into the story outside of "random dude who got tadpoled". You're meant to play one of the Origin characters or if you want to customize your looks/background you play Dark Urge. Instead lots of people decided Dark Urge sounds too evil and went with Tav, who is just supposed to be the "okay if none of the others are interesting to you I guess" character.
    I'm so glad my first character was Durge, I've tried Tav and can't see how anybody could get into the head of a character with no personality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I think it might have helped to stick with the Divinity: Original Sin 2 approach: race is set but looks and starting class are customisable.
    I could see that. Astarion, Karlach and Gale could probably be reworked to make all races viable with minimal trouble but Shadowheart and Wyll both have family and Lae'zels race is pretty central to her character

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I'm so glad my first character was Durge, I've tried Tav and can't see how anybody could get into the head of a character with no personality.
    Easier to define the character for yourself, honestly.

    Durge has so much preset you've got to colour inside the lines a bit. You get more reactivity but less room to infer and insert. Good to have both options, I think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Speaking for myself, not at all. If I want to make a custom character, I'll just do that. If I'm considering playing an Origin character, it's because I want to see what it's like using that specific character as the main character. Aside from class for gameplay purposes, changing anything about them would defeat the point.

    I do know the big thing thay would've made me play an Origin character run sooner though: if they had full voice acting. I looked at doing the Origin Shadowheart run I'm currently doing as my second run in part because I thought they might get that, and decided to go Dark Urge instead when I found out they don't.
    Interesting! Sort of the reverse of the complaint people have had about later Dragon Age games of them introducing the full VA when the Warden in DAO didn't have it. I imagine some people would still have that complaint for this one, though with DA2, DAI, and every ME game as precedent I wouldn't expect them to be surprised about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I'm so glad my first character was Durge, I've tried Tav and can't see how anybody could get into the head of a character with no personality.
    Dark Urge has no more personality than the default custom character, though? What it has is a defined backstory (that you don't really learn anything about until over halfway through the game). But because of their amnesia that backstory doesn't affect a Dark Urge's personality any more than the background you choose for a custom character. All it does is give you the urge to commit violent acts from time to time, but how the Dark Urge reacts to that is completely undefined.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by SerTabris View Post
    Interesting! Sort of the reverse of the complaint people have had about later Dragon Age games of them introducing the full VA when the Warden in DAO didn't have it. I imagine some people would still have that complaint for this one, though with DA2, DAI, and every ME game as precedent I wouldn't expect them to be surprised about it.
    Oh yeah, I've always been the opposite of that. For me a voice-acted protagonist is always preferable to one that isn't. It gives so much more life to the character, makes them feel so much more like they're a real part of the story.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2024-06-21 at 04:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Quote Originally Posted by Errorname View Post
    I could see that. Astarion, Karlach and Gale could probably be reworked to make all races viable with minimal trouble but Shadowheart and Wyll both have family and Lae'zels race is pretty central to her character
    DA 2 had something like a dozen flavors of Hawke family that itcwoukd pick from depending on what physical traits you picked for player Hawke. I would be possible to have EG Duke Ravengard match Wyll's skin tone if he used a custom option.

    I dont know if it would be easy, but it is possible.
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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    Huh. So, another bit of info about the game that they put out in separate previews/articles is kind of interesting: apparently, Veilguard will have something akin to Origins, in the form of Backgrounds for your main character that align them with one of the six factions of the game. This affects story and dialogue choices obviously (and other than Harding each of the companions belongs to one of these factions, so unique dialogue with them is a given), but also gives some stats and abilities (an example given being one background that causes you to do bonus damage to Venatori enemies), and apparently affects the prologue? Although I thought the gameplay preview we saw was the prologue - you were certainly at level 1 during it - and it didn't seem to be a Origin-like unique one, so either the prologue in question is short enough that you don't level up, or the effects on the prologue we saw aren't apparent from a first viewing. Or maybe the part if affects was the part they skipped to get to Solas.

    Anyway, two of the six factions will be familiar to everyone who played the previous games, but we've also got some basic descriptions of the other four:
    • The Grey Wardens
    • The Antivan Crows
    • The Lords of Fortune - Basically a group of adventurers-for-hire from Rivain; known as treasure hunters, monster hunters, they sell their services as guards to those on expeditions, etc. Very dangerous lifestyle leading to low life expectancy, and they're known for wearing colorful clothes and treasures they've recovered on their adventures.
    • The Mourn Watch - A group of Nevarran Mages, part of the "Mortalitasi" (which apparently have been mentioned in previous games, though I don't remember them myself), they're necromancers with close ties to Nevarra's royal family who guard its Grand Necropolis and perform funerary rights. Very respected and influential in Nevarra, but feared outside of it.
    • The Veil Jumpers - A group of explorers focused on uncovering the mysteries of Elven ruins, especially in Arlathan Forest, where the remnants of ancient magic make exploration exceedingly dangerous.
    • The Shadow Dragons - A Tevinter resistance group opposed to the corruption of the region's rulers and dedicated to helping those in need. (I wonder if Dorian has something to do with this bunch?)

    Slightly surprisingly given some of those factions seem fairly class-oriented, you can pick any background no matter your class (or race). So if you want to be a Mage with the Antivan Crows or a Warrior member of the Mourn Watch, have at it apparently. Which is nice, could be interesting to play an against-stereotype combination like that.

    Not sure who I'm most interested in using for a first character myself. The Veil Jumpers stand out due to the main plot being about Solas, and probably the other Elven Gods, but the others have their appeal too. I'm probably least interested in doing a Grey Warden, since we've done that before, or the Mourn Watch, personally, but hard to pick between the rest.
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    The Mourn Watch is sort of... I guess the enforcement division of the Mortalitasi (who get talked about a lot in Inquisition, if you talk to Cassandra or become a Necromancer mage), from my understanding. Hence being able to get in as a non-mage. If you're a warrior, its because you're muscle for their operations. You're the one who hit the walking corpses (or soon to be corpses) with a sword so the mages can do whatever they need to do.

    The Veil Jumpers are interesting because with the exception of the Inquisitor, going into the Fade physically is supposed to be basically impossible under normal circumstances. I guess they could just be taking a nap in the ruins, but typically you need to be a mage to do anything meaningful with that. I guess it could just be a fanciful name for themselves.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Kind of sad that the Carta isn't an option, for such a prominent faction that can supply two major heroes it has shockingly little importance in the games. I suppose it might just be more of a southern Thedas organisation, but I'm still disappointed.

    Especially as Inquisitor Cadash being smol is given far more focus than her background as a smuggler. It's probably a consequence of nonhuman Inquisitors being a late addition to the game, hopefully the Veilguard backgrounds don't end up as disappointing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Kind of sad that the Carta isn't an option, for such a prominent faction that can supply two major heroes it has shockingly little importance in the games. I suppose it might just be more of a southern Thedas organisation, but I'm still disappointed.

    Especially as Inquisitor Cadash being smol is given far more focus than her background as a smuggler. It's probably a consequence of nonhuman Inquisitors being a late addition to the game, hopefully the Veilguard backgrounds don't end up as disappointing.
    Presumably you couldn't be part of the Carta because the Carta doesn't employ non-dwarves except as the occasional mercenary enforcer. Its a distinctly dwarven thing.

    ETA: the Carta also seems to get dismantled every time it shows up, so it may be they just thought it was implausible for them to be helpful or able to have any power at this point.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2024-06-22 at 02:26 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Dragon Age: Veilguard

    I'm actually kind of interested in what they did with Grey Wardens. In Origins, you were the sole bulwark stopping the world from being eaten by Darkspawn. In Awakenings, the Grey Wardens was kind of a clown college with you just recruiting everyone with a pulse you came across (and I laughed at my 0% retain rate at the end as everyone quit the group). I don't know that it'll be my choice, but I'll admit to being curious.

    Antivan Crows is interesting because, again, they've been part of the franchise from Day One.

    Least interested in Veil Jumpers and Mourn Watch. Veil Jumpers might unfairly be prejudice from the character reveal video and the companion Veil Jumper feeling a bit too cutsie and twee for me. Mourn Watch is just, eh, don't care about necromancers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The Mourn Watch is sort of... I guess the enforcement division of the Mortalitasi (who get talked about a lot in Inquisition, if you talk to Cassandra or become a Necromancer mage), from my understanding. Hence being able to get in as a non-mage. If you're a warrior, its because you're muscle for their operations. You're the one who hit the walking corpses (or soon to be corpses) with a sword so the mages can do whatever they need to do.
    Now that you mention it I do think I remember Cassandra talking about them vaguely - mostly I recall the name being said in that distinctive accent of hers, really. It's just been too long since I played Inquisition, and since I only got through it once it's by far the least memorable of the games to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The Veil Jumpers are interesting because with the exception of the Inquisitor, going into the Fade physically is supposed to be basically impossible under normal circumstances. I guess they could just be taking a nap in the ruins, but typically you need to be a mage to do anything meaningful with that. I guess it could just be a fanciful name for themselves.
    Could also just be that when entering the Veil is necessary the non-Mage members need help from the Mages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Kind of sad that the Carta isn't an option, for such a prominent faction that can supply two major heroes it has shockingly little importance in the games. I suppose it might just be more of a southern Thedas organisation, but I'm still disappointed.

    Especially as Inquisitor Cadash being smol is given far more focus than her background as a smuggler. It's probably a consequence of nonhuman Inquisitors being a late addition to the game, hopefully the Veilguard backgrounds don't end up as disappointing.
    Probably just a matter of them knowing that Dwarves (who aren't Varric) aren't popular and making their choices accordingly, honestly. Plus the Carta would be the only race-specific faction if it were present - even the Veil Jumpers don't say anything about being exclusive to Elves, you just need an interest in Elven ruins and a willingness to brave the dangers involved exploring them to join.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Presumably you couldn't be part of the Carta because the Carta doesn't employ non-dwarves except as the occasional mercenary enforcer. Its a distinctly dwarven thing.

    ETA: the Carta also seems to get dismantled every time it shows up, so it may be they just thought it was implausible for them to be helpful or able to have any power at this point.
    Fair, but it still feels like the writers introduced the organisation and then proceeded to ignore them. It's fine in DA2, but they're weirdly absent in Inquisition despite having 'we need lyrium for our new allies' as a plot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Probably just a matter of them knowing that Dwarves (who aren't Varric) aren't popular and making their choices accordingly, honestly. Plus the Carta would be the only race-specific faction if it were present - even the Veil Jumpers don't say anything about being exclusive to Elves, you just need an interest in Elven ruins and a willingness to brave the dangers involved exploring them to join.
    It probably doesn't help that except for I e short DLC the series only has two dwarf party members. And while one of them is Varric he's having to undo the damage left by Oghren.

    ...why couldn't Origins have Leske as a full party member? Instead we have a character who embodies literally every negative trait commonly associated with dwarves and several more which aren't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    It probably doesn't help that except for I e short DLC the series only has two dwarf party members. And while one of them is Varric he's having to undo the damage left by Oghren.

    ...why couldn't Origins have Leske as a full party member? Instead we have a character who embodies literally every negative trait commonly associated with dwarves and several more which aren't.
    I mean, Dwarves are just generally not favourites. They have a strong core base but not necessarily wide reaching appeal, at least as PCs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    It probably doesn't help that except for I e short DLC the series only has two dwarf party members. And while one of them is Varric he's having to undo the damage left by Oghren.

    ...why couldn't Origins have Leske as a full party member? Instead we have a character who embodies literally every negative trait commonly associated with dwarves and several more which aren't.
    True, Oghren was almost certainly the least enjoyable party member of Origins for most people. And he's certainly the most forgettable.

    But Varric probably isn't exactly making people like the race that much more, since his whole thing is being about the least Dwarfy of all Dwarves. He's eloquent and charming instead of crude and blunt, he's a rogue with a crossbow instead of a warrior with an axe or hammer, he wants nothing to do with caves and underground areas if he can help it, and while he's not clean-shaven that stubble he has is as close to it as you can get while technically still having facial hair. When you need to be the opposite of everything your race normally is in order to be popular, it's kind of telling. Like if the only popular Elf was one that looked and acted like the God of War Ragnarok version of Thor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    True, Oghren was almost certainly the least enjoyable party member of Origins for most people. And he's certainly the most forgettable.
    I always kind of liked Oghren but maybe I'm just weird that way. Zevran, on the other hand, I had little use for and would just end him in the last couple of play throughs rather than watch him loiter around my camp unused with just enough interaction to stave off his (sudden but inevitable) betrayal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
    I always kind of liked Oghren but maybe I'm just weird that way. Zevran, on the other hand, I had little use for and would just end him in the last couple of play throughs rather than watch him loiter around my camp unused with just enough interaction to stave off his (sudden but inevitable) betrayal.
    I'm about the same way. Zevran was a victim mostly of the combat system, where he wanted to be a backstab rogue, which meant drastically increasing the level of micromanagement I would have to do to make him useful. And he wasnt even an especially good lockpicker to make up for it, unlike Leliana.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Zevran was a victim mostly of the combat system
    Oof, yeah, I forgot about that. You pretty much had to respec him to be useful due to how poorly the AI handled a melee rogue and Leliana already (a) had the ranged job and (b) was much more plot relevant. So even if you wanted him around, it was a chore to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Anyway, we have a dedicated BG3 thread.
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    But no worry, I'll link it to the thread topic (see below.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I really wouldn't call her masc-presenting either, but we also never get to see the kind of clothes she would choose to wear. Heck you can stick a suit of armour on Karlach and barely see her scars or engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Errorname View Post
    I think considering their characters concepts they're about as pretty as they could get away with. Certainly would not agree about Karlach being masc presenting.
    To be clear, I don't actually think of Karlach that way, but in the part of my post you both omitted I highlighted that she has a very unusual body type for a primary female love interest in a game that managed to achieve mainstream popularity. I defy you to point out many other major female love interests in RPGs with her build/body type; I'll wait. It's just not something developers gave much thought before BG3.

    Even in Dragon Age (boom, topic!) Cassandra and Aveline are ostensibly extremely strong, but don't come anywhere close to Karlach's musculature. Cassandra in particular is so strong that she leaves both Blackwall and Iron Bull very reluctant to train with her according to their party banter (albeit Blackwall being more reluctant than Bull), but her design is the most slender/willowy of the three. Some of that may be her Inquisitor powers buffing her swings, it's difficult to say, but it's borderline Informed Attribute.

    My main point is that Karlach is very atypical and so a label like "conventionally pretty" doesn't do justice to the commercial risk Larian was taking with her design.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2024-06-22 at 06:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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