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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default The naming of elephants

    This is the coolest story I've seen in years. Finally, someone has used AI to do something exciting.

    Turns out, elephants have names. Not names like Nellie or Peanut. Real names, names given and used for them by other elephants.

    Now hoping someone can figure out how to perform the same study on cetaceans.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    This is the coolest story I've seen in years. Finally, someone has used AI to do something exciting.

    Turns out, elephants have names. Not names like Nellie or Peanut. Real names, names given and used for them by other elephants.
    I'm awaiting the full-on T.S. Eliot pastiche. The naming of elephants is a difficult matter...

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Originally Posted by veti
    Now hoping someone can figure out how to perform the same study on cetaceans.
    Similar research is underway, but not yet at the stage of identifying individual designations.

    Even so, I'm still holding out hope for a ship named Streaker.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    I'm awaiting the full-on T.S. Eliot pastiche. The naming of elephants is a difficult matter...
    That's exactly what I thought when I saw the thread title
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2024-06-10 at 05:03 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    I'm awaiting the full-on T.S. Eliot pastiche. The naming of elephants is a difficult matter...
    I'll be honest, I was thinking that myself. But it doesn't scan. You'd have to rework the line so that "elephants" was the second word, or equivalent.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    This sounds like a promising preliminary result but I wouldn't trust it just yet due to the AI angle. I don't particularly trust AI to do anything that isn't creative. Further research is definitely warranted though. An obvious test would be to play back one of the possible names and see if only the elephant in question responds.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    An obvious test would be to play back one of the possible names and see if only the elephant in question responds.
    Already done. From the above link:
    When the researchers played a recording to an elephant of their friend or family member calling out their name, the animal responded positively and “energetically”, the researchers said.

    But the same elephant was far less enthusiastic when played the names of others.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    This sounds like a promising preliminary result but I wouldn't trust it just yet due to the AI angle. I don't particularly trust AI to do anything that isn't creative. Further research is definitely warranted though. An obvious test would be to play back one of the possible names and see if only the elephant in question responds.
    You surprise me with this. I would not trust AI to do anything creative.

    The one thing machine learning techniques have been good at for a long time is pattern recognition which is what this one boils down to. The question of whether the patterns found are meaningful or not is absolutely key to the use of AI - and in this case it looks as if they are asking those questions to separate the important patterns from random noise.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    It's been known for a long time that parrots have names for each other, and I'm not at all surprised to see that it's true of elephants, too. But it's gratifying to see it confirmed.

    One difficulty in studying elephant communication is that much of it is in frequencies too low for humans to hear. This has advantages for elephants, though: They can hear and understand each other from many miles away.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    From memory, dolphins and whales have similar personal identifiers as well.

    It'd be interesting if they can prove the same with problem-solving birds like ravens.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    You surprise me with this. I would not trust AI to do anything creative.
    I'm most familiar with the kind of AI that strings words together to create ridiculous stories of things that never happened and never will.
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2024-06-11 at 01:36 PM.
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    You surprise me with this. I would not trust AI to do anything creative.

    The one thing machine learning techniques have been good at for a long time is pattern recognition which is what this one boils down to. The question of whether the patterns found are meaningful or not is absolutely key to the use of AI - and in this case it looks as if they are asking those questions to separate the important patterns from random noise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I'm most familiar with the kind of AI that strings words together to create ridiculous stories of things that never happened and never will.
    We may need to start using some new terminology. We have come to use the word "creative" synonymously with "artistic". Tellingly, perhaps, in the last decade or so we have developed this thinking in a financial sense into "content creation". What AI churns out, "creates", if we will, is certainly content - content can be anything, after all. A bucket full of human faeces contains content. AI stuff can even be superficially coherent. So AI can do the job of "content creation". But it can't produce art. (No, not even Stable Diffusion and its ilk - it can produce pictures, but not art).

    That the two are so readily confused in conversation at least, suggests that the conflation of "artist" with "content creator" has arguably therefore done precisely what those who have railed against the proliferation of the latter term for years feared and complained of: degraded our understanding and appreciation of the artistic element, which until the development of true AI (not just LLMs and the like) remains essentially biological, in media production. If I were a more cynical man, I might even suggest that this has been deliberate on the part of the tech and media companies which drove the concept of "content" and its "creation" and now by replacing the humans who used to do it with machines (which in some cases they developed themselves) stand to profit.
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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    beauty, not expression or a soul, is the essential element of art

    EDIT:
    Or, to put it another way, the ability to evoke an emotion is more important than the ability to express one. Ultimately I don't care what the aritst is thinking as long as I'm entertained.

    EDIT:
    Or to put it another way, I don't care about artists OR content creators, I only care about content. The supply side of the economy does not concern me; it a means to an end and nothing more, and if a more expedient means presents itself I will avail myself of it. And that goes for every other industry too; If I could get my food out of a replicator like Star Trek instead of having to go through a bunch of farmers and trucks and restaurants and grocery stores I'd do it.

    EDIT:
    And I long for the day when 3d printing appliances get advanced enough to replace the old paradigm of goods being made in factories

    EDIT:
    Although I WILL cede that a shared cultural experience can also be an aspect of art and that AI poses some dilution to this as previously any work you viewed had necessarily also been viewed by at least one other person, to wit the artist themself
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    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    which until the development of true AI (not just LLMs and the like) remains essentially biological
    If you're talking about something sentient I don't see any reason why anyone would ever develop such a thing. There's no need for it. Maybe once just to prove that they can; but overall it would just needlessly complicate things without improving functionality and I can't see it ever seeing widespread adoption.
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2024-06-11 at 09:33 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The naming of elephants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    That the two are so readily confused in conversation at least, suggests that the conflation of "artist" with "content creator" has arguably therefore done precisely what those who have railed against the proliferation of the latter term for years feared and complained of: degraded our understanding and appreciation of the artistic element, which until the development of true AI (not just LLMs and the like) remains essentially biological, in media production. If I were a more cynical man, I might even suggest that this has been deliberate on the part of the tech and media companies which drove the concept of "content" and its "creation" and now by replacing the humans who used to do it with machines (which in some cases they developed themselves) stand to profit.
    You are attributing too much foresight and forethought to the companies. "Content creation" is simply the way they look at the world, since to them all "content" is the same - it's all just data to be monetised, doesn't matter who or what creates it or how, just that it is created. That much has been obvious to them (and, come to that, anyone else who thought about it for two minutes) since the days of Geocities and Altavista and AOL. And in that they've been allied with traditional publishers, who feel exactly the same way (and probably envy the newcomers the clarity and simplicity of their insight).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    beauty, not expression or a soul, is the essential element of art
    I... couldn't possibly disagree more if I tried. In fact I'm trying right now, and no, I don't think I've ever seen a more wrongheaded opinion about anything, anywhere, ever. However, this doesn't really seem the right thread to get into that. It's a big topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    If you're talking about something sentient I don't see any reason why anyone would ever develop such a thing. There's no need for it. Maybe once just to prove that they can; but overall it would just needlessly complicate things without improving functionality and I can't see it ever seeing widespread adoption.
    Well, the likeliest scenario in my opinion is that they will do it unintentionally, as a byproduct of something else. How do you think we got it? Indeed, I've argued in the past that the internet itself is probably sentient by now. How would we know?
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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