3.x Vs 4E Tolkien Vs Holiwood+Anime

[Smight]

Am I the only one that gets the feeling that more they turn away from Tolkien the more they dip into Holiwood and anime for inspiration, for example gravehound zombie in this article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071019a sems like it's more at kome chasing Mila Jovovich through corridors of Umbrela CO. and what is with "fey step" http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.ph...3Fpage_id%3D41 if you get to bigger levels do you get BANKAI too i seriusly got to wonder will warriors hair turn blond and spikey when he powers up.

[Mr. Friendly]

Am I the only one that gets the feeling that more they turn away from Tolkien the more they dip into Holiwood and anime for inspiration, for example gravehound zombie in this article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071019a sems like it's more at kome chasing Mila Jovovich through corridors of Umbrela CO. and what is with "fey step" http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.ph...3Fpage_id%3D41 if you get to bigger levels do you get BANKAI too i seriusly got to wonder will warriors hair turn blond and spikey when he powers up.

Ah yes, Tolkien, the perfect D&D world. Where PCs are helpless, mewling babes, unable to defeat any foe except via DM fiat and having high-level NPCs/DMPCs save them. Wow. That sure is fun.

[Crow]

Ah yes, Tolkien, the perfect D&D world. Where PCs are helpless, mewling babes, unable to defeat any foe except via DM fiat and having high-level NPCs/DMPCs save them. Wow. That sure is fun.

Those "NPCs/DMPCs" were actually the real PCs. It's all in how you look at it.

[Valairn]

Methinks the verdict is out, good to wait to make decisions, when you actually see the mechanics.

[Smight]

Ah yes, Tolkien, the perfect D&D world. Where PCs are helpless, mewling babes, unable to defeat any foe except via DM fiat and having high-level NPCs/DMPCs save them. Wow. That sure is fun.

And you managed to totaly misunderstood the post, what i ment was that it seems like they get inspiration for new feats more from modern movies and anime then from folclore and old fantasy , wich may lead to vampire being more similar to Blade movie then Stokers Dracula, but that could only be me.

[Counterspin]

Can't people be bothered to come up with new things to troll the boards about? Seriously. Or at least come up with some reasonable examples?

Additionally, why does everyone think that when they yell "Videogame" and "Anime" we're all going to just nod agreeably? As long as the game is good I don't care. If you're that hugely concerned about these influences, just stick with third. Hopefully the people with good reasons to stick with it will let you into their games.

Once again, the video game and anime tropes are just intellectually lazy, so that you can be angry without having to say why. Why are zombie dogs bad for the game? They're a great example of "fast zombies." And how will short range teleport hurt my game?

[SpikeFightwicky]

D&D should stay as far away from Holywood as possible, and vice versa.

[Mr. Friendly]

Those "NPCs/DMPCs" were actually the real PCs. It's all in how you look at it.

Really? So the LotR cycle had only two PCs? Gandalf and Golum?

And you managed to totaly misunderstood the post, what i ment was that it seems like they get inspiration for new feats more from modern movies and anime then from folclore and old fantasy , wich may lead to vampire being more similar to Blade movie then Stokers Dracula, but that could only be me.

So D&D, as a game, should remain static and unchanging, forever? Should all vampires be Strahd/Dracula? Should every Lich be Sauron? Every dragon Smaug? How many times can you recycle the same villain and plot over and over?

So instead of shambling zombies that are easily avoidable and escapable, there are fast moving zombie dogs now. Big deal. The medium of folklore changes over time. In ages past people sat around the campfire and recited the story of the Bogeyman who would sneak in and eat them. Now we have engineered plagues that make people become vampires and zombies.

New != bad
Change != bad

Neither one necessarily equals good either. However, when you recycle the same plot, villain and monsters for 30 years, sometimes you need to add a little spice.

[kamikasei]

Those "NPCs/DMPCs" were actually the real PCs. It's all in how you look at it.

That's an argument I've not heard made before. The "PC-analogues" in LotR were Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Denethor? Really? That doesn't sound much like any D&D game from any edition that wasn't a specialized setting designed for high-level political play, to me...

To the OP: the purpose of D&D is not to ever-more-faithfully reproduce the world of this or that classic novel. New books should present new options that are fun and interesting, and as popular culture and, yes, the fantasy genre move on, those options will derive from a widening pool of inspiration. The point that a given monster may be reworked to resemble a movie interpretation instead of the original myth is fair... but in equal fairness there are often multiple conflicting myths and most of them don't work well for a game creature. On the other hand, though I haven't read your link about Fey Step yet, I seriously doubt it's going to merit the bizarre DBZ-parody criticism you directed towards it.

The other complaint, given that you mentioned feats, I would surmise is that you fear 4th ed characters will "feel" more like a movie action hero or (shonen fighting) anime protagonist than an adventurer in a Tolkienesque medieval fantasy setting... which might be a justified concern, but options aren't bad to have, and unless it turns out that it's actually impossible to play a relatively mundane character and still remain effective then wanting to play a restricted subset of the "feel" available in the books remains a viable style.

[Smight]

Once again, the video game and anime tropes are just intellectually lazy, so that you can be angry without having to say why. Why are zombie dogs bad for the game? They're a great example of "fast zombies." And how will short range teleport hurt my game?

Nothing is wrong with the idea they could just put little more efort into making them little more original, same thing could be made with zombie wolf, and "fay step" and "flash step" they coulda chnged a name bit more there is nothing more anoing then when players start discusing latest anime show douring session, and with things like that it's gona happen more often.

[Valairn]

That's just pure silly prejudice. I'm done with this thread.

[Indon]

Nothing is wrong with the idea they could just put little more efort into making them little more original, same thing could be made with zombie wolf, and "fay step" and "flash step" they coulda chnged a name bit more there is nothing more anoing then when players start discusing latest anime show douring session, and with things like that it's gona happen more often.

I'd rather have D&D monsters that model creatures you'd actually see in a D&D campaign, personally, rather than 'original' D&D creatures like the Tiger Shark.

As for ability names, what's wrong with those? A good ability name is at least somewhat flavorful or descriptive, and unique, and those aren't even very anime-inspired names.

"Seven leagues step", now that's an anime name. "Cherry Blossom Dragon Arc," that sort of thing. "Fey Step," just sounds a lot like things like "Dimension Door".

[Smight]

That's just pure silly prejudice. I'm done with this thread.

No just expiriance, but I gues it larley depends on players around the table, you obviusly didn't have guy around your table who learned japanese for soule purpose of watching anime RAW.

[Nerd-o-rama]

D&D is getting more like anime? That's ridiculous.

*looks at sig*

Um...

[Attilargh]

"Seven leagues step", now that's an anime name.

A what now?

(Also, who the hell would want to place his feet seven leagues apart?)

[Mewtarthio]

Bah. I refuse to believe 4e is suffering undue anime influence until character sheets are printed with the line "Gender (Male / Female / Damned if I can figure it out)."

[Thinker]

So what if the designers are gaining inspiration from anime? They'd be stupid not to. If anyone restricts their inspiration simply because of the medium and not because of the story (s)he is being short-sighted and stupid. I could see a case for limiting inspiration based on genre, but video games and anime have genres within themselves. If you want a medieval feel draw from medieval concepts, but even restricting culture is ridiculous. You could reflavor and get ideas from anything. The idea of the samurai being loyal to a lord and using an ancestral weapon could be applied fairly easily to a germanic story as well. Quit bitching about source material and reflavor things as you wish. Its not about what matches your specific idea, but what is the best fit for the most people.

[Nerd-o-rama]

No just expiriance, but I gues it larley depends on players around the table, you obviusly didn't have guy around your table who learned japanese for soule purpose of watching anime RAW.

That's silly.

I (tried to) learn Japanese for the sole purpose of playing imported video games. I failed at that, mostly because the games I'm importing are all text-heavy, and how the hell does anyone memorize kanji? How? They're all just blobs to me.

[EvilElitest]

Ah yes, Tolkien, the perfect D&D world. Where PCs are helpless, mewling babes, unable to defeat any foe except via DM fiat and having high-level NPCs/DMPCs save them. Wow. That sure is fun.

Do you run champaigns like the DM of the Rings. If not then i just can't understand your complaints.

Really? So the LotR cycle had only two PCs? Gandalf and Golum?

I'm sorry, i really don't care about this thread, but this just goes into the very deepest depth of BS
1. He said Tolkien based, not the book itself.
2. Hate to break it to you, LOTRS is a book, not a game. A game based after the book, unless run by a totally usless Dm wouldn't be done that way, which by the way can be done with any champaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That other guy
And you managed to totaly misunderstood the post, what i ment was that it seems like they get inspiration for new feats more from modern movies and anime then from folclore and old fantasy , wich may lead to vampire being more similar to Blade movie then Stokers Dracula, but that could only be me.
So D&D, as a game, should remain static and unchanging, forever? Should all vampires be Strahd/Dracula? Should every Lich be Sauron? Every dragon Smaug? How many times can you recycle the same villain and plot over and over?

Personally, i don't mind the new as long as they keep the old, not replace it (excluding things that are broken then become fixed)

So instead of shambling zombies that are easily avoidable and escapable, there are fast moving zombie dogs now.

both, ain't worth whining about.

Big deal. The medium of folklore changes over time. In ages past people sat around the campfire and recited the story of the Bogeyman who would sneak in and eat them. Now we have engineered plagues that make people become vampires and zombies.

what ever floats your boat

from,
EE

[Valairn]

I have learned key phrases in Japanese and done a little reading up on their lexicon so I can better enjoy anime. You'd be surprised what understanding the native language can do for improving a plot line, that otherwise ports crappily to English.

Of course you seem to have some grudge against people that do that, so like I said I have nothing particularly useful to add to this post that will matter to you.

[Artanis]

That's silly.

I (tried to) learn Japanese for the sole purpose of playing imported video games. I failed at that, mostly because the games I'm importing are all text-heavy, and how the hell does anyone memorize kanji? How? They're all just blobs to me.

Don't they have like, four alphabets or something?

[hamstard4ever]

No just expiriance,

You've had less than satisfactory experiences and you choose to project that dissatisfaction onto everything that has even a tenuous connection to your bad experience. That is prejudice.

[Indon]

That's silly.

I (tried to) learn Japanese for the sole purpose of playing imported video games. I failed at that, mostly because the games I'm importing are all text-heavy, and how the hell does anyone memorize kanji? How? They're all just blobs to me.

Kanji and other pictographic languages are pretty hard to learn; from my little interaction with the concept, individual lines can be like syllables, and more complex structures can be like highly abstract pictures, and many word meanings can be gleaned from a combination of those two influences.

There's a reason professional translators have had a history of screwing up Japanese to English translations (and it isn't _all_ gross incompetence, either).

As for the names I'd made up, I just made up stuff that I could feasibly see in my Exalted game. Granted, the league is a western measurement, but still.

[Tengu]

Will there be characters with hidden portals in their foreheads from which robots sprout constantly? No.
Will there be doofus gunmen walking around, refusing to kill anyone and fighting for LOVE AND PEACE? Probably not.
Will the setting be a futuristic, cyberpunk world where almost everyone has at least a direct neural connection to the net, if not a completely robotic body? I bet not.
No bounty hunters and jazz and blues music in space too, I bet.
Will there be time travelers, aliens and espers? Hmm, maybe the last ones.

Who said that DND is becoming more anime-like?

[Attilargh]

Will there be doofus gunmen walking around, refusing to kill anyone and fighting for LOVE AND PEACE? Probably not.

Clearly you've never played Iron Kingdoms with Book of Exalted Deeds. (Come to think of it, that'd probably be pretty damn awesome.)

Also, D&D characters' level is rarely over nine thousaaaaaand!

[Tengu]

See? DND is already so anime-like it's hard to become more.

And yes, awesome idea.

[Leicontis]

Am I the only one that gets the feeling that more they turn away from Tolkien the more they dip into Holiwood and anime for inspiration, for example gravehound zombie in this article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071019a sems like it's more at kome chasing Mila Jovovich through corridors of Umbrela CO. and what is with "fey step" http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.ph...3Fpage_id%3D41 if you get to bigger levels do you get BANKAI too i seriusly got to wonder will warriors hair turn blond and spikey when he powers up.

How do I make the second link work? It just takes me to a page of images.

I have no problem with D&D drawing inspiration from things other than Tolkien. Let's face it - there are a lot of people out there that want to play characters based on a movie, anime, video game, book, etc. Why not make it easier for people to build more varied characters? As long as people aren't straitjacketed into playing anime-esque or hollywood-esque or Tolkien-esque characters, but are able to play any of the above (or none of the above) effectively, it's a good thing to draw inspiration from a wider pool of sources.

[AKA_Bait]

Will there be time travelers, aliens and espers? Hmm, maybe the last ones.

We already have those. They are called Mind Flayers. On that note...

3.x is too anime! Tentacled psionic powered aliens from the future are so not D&D! [/sarcastic]

[Morty]

It's actually quite amazing how people can draw conclusions from buch of marketing material.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Don't they have like, four alphabets or something?

Three alphabets, two phonetic, one pictographic. The pictographic one (kanji) is the hardest, for all the reasons Indon said, and yet is the most commonly used. Probably because there are so many homophones in Japanese that you can't just spell things out phonetically.

I can understand formal, spoken Japanese after a couple of passes, though (the only reason I like Moe chicks in anime: they use diction that I can follow because it's what they teach in school).