Balance question about Wizards and Psions

[Jimp]

Why do most people consider Psions to be better balanced than Wizards?
Is it because their spell point system works better, or is it because they lack some of the spells needed to 'go batman' or what is it?

[Starsinger]

Why do most people consider Psions to be better balanced than Wizards?
Is it because their spell point system works better, or is it because they lack some of the spells needed to 'go batman' or what is it?

It's actually both.

[Wordmiser]

It's mostly three things:
1. Psions are more limited in their power access than Wizards are in their spells.
2. Powers are generally weaker than spells.
2a. A much higher percentage of high-level powers require XP expediture than spells.
3. Psions have to pay extra pp to apply their full manifester level to a power's effect.

[Azerian Kelimon]

They do, however, generally get a power list that covers more things. For example, they can heal, and can do half competent blasting.

[Kantolin]

I believe it's mostly #2 above:

Powers are generally weaker than spells.

3 is very significant in this feature - 3 makes psions not have the stamina of wizards, but it's mostly that powers tend to be weaker than spells.

[Chronicled]

Mostly 1 & 2.

1. Psion specialization is forced, and restricts their options a lot more than a wizard's specialization. Also, a psion can't have the ideal spell for every situation imaginable sitting in their spellbook, just needing 15 minutes to memorize.

2. Almost every psion power can't even begin to compete with same level of wizard spells. A psion is lucky to get Fly at 7th level. Many top-notch party buffs aren't available since a psion's powers tend to be self-only, or destructive in nature.

What psions have over wizards (besides balance) is unparalleled tactical flexibility--even more than a sorcerer with the feat Versatile Spellcaster does.

[Reel On, Love]

Basically, psion powers are that much worse than arcane spells. Psions have a couple of broken things of their own, as all full casters do, but by and large there either aren't any psionic equivalents of the best arcane spells, or the equivalents are significantly worse. Glitterdust is a great example of this. So are Haste, Slow, Enervation (Mindwipe has a save to negate and is mind-affecting), etc.

[Chronicled]

Don't forget that the psionic version of Invisibility gives a will save (although it seems to block any sort of detection), and to do it en masse gives everyone a will save. Guess how often just one of the trolls ends up lucky...

[RTGoodman]

Yeah, those are all true. Also, check out the sheer number of arcane spells (or, at least, Sorcerer/Wizard spells) versus the number of powers for Psions. A lot of the "win" spells for Wizards (well, some at least) are from the various non-core books, and there really aren't that many sources of huge numbers of psionic powers outside of the Expanded Psionics.

Also, this thread reminded me of a variant psion that was somewhere on the Wizards website. Lemme find it...

Okay, so it's apparently the "Mind's Eye" article on expanding the Erudite. The variant looses the 1st level bonus feat, but gets the ability to learn arcane spells as psionic powers. So that'll let you get any cheesy spell you need, within the limits of the variant.

Here's the link, or just check the spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Convert Spell to Power

Your training has included basic magical theory as well as the usual psionic training.

Replaces: You lose your 1st-level bonus feat.

Benefit: You add Spellcraft to your class skill list, which allows you to attempt to convert an arcane spell into a power you can add to your repertoire. You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power (see page 154 of Complete Psionic).

Each spell costs a certain number of power points to manifest. The higher the level of the spell, the more power points it costs. The table below describes each spell's cost.

Note: If this system intrigues you, you can see a spell point variant system starting on page 153 of Unearthed Arcana.

{table=head]Spell Level | Power Point Cost
0* | 0*
1 | 1
2 | 3
3 | 5
7 | 7
5 | 9
6 | 11
7 | 13
8 | 15
9 | 17[/table]

* 0-level spells cost no power points to manifest. Instead you may manifest a number of 0-level spells each day equal to three + the number of power points gained by that class at 1st level.

The erudite uses her manifester level for determining the effects of the spell being manifested, with one significant exception. Spells that deal a number of dice of damage based on caster level (such as magic missile,searing light, or lightning bolt) deal damage as if cast by a character of the minimum level of the class capable of casting the spell. Spells whose damage is partially based on caster level, but that don't deal a number of dice of damage based on caster level (such as produce flame or an inflict spell) use the erudite's normal manifester level to determine damage. Use the erudite's normal manifester level for all other effects, including range and duration.

For example, a fireball deals a number of dice of damage based on the erudite's manifester level, so when manifested it deals 5d6 points of damage (as if cast by a 5th-level wizard, which is the minimum level of wizard capable of casting fireball).

An erudite can pay additional power points to augment the dice of damage dealt by a spell. Every 1 extra power point spent at the time of manifesting increases the spell's effective caster level by 1 for purposes of dealing damage. The damage-dealing spell's caster level cannot be increased above the erudite's manifester level, or above the normal maximum allowed by the spell.

For example, even at 7th level, our erudite's lightning bolts deal only 5d6 points of damage (just like a 5th-level wizard) unless she spends extra power points. If she spends 1 extra power point (making the lightning bolt cost 6 points rather than 5), the spell deals 6d6 points of damage. A second extra power point would increase the damage to 7d6 points, but she can't spend more points than this, since her manifester level is only 7th. Were she 10th level or higher, she could spend a maximum of 5 extra power points on this spell, raising the damage up to 10d6, the maximum allowed for a lightning bolt spell.

Similarly, her magic missile spell shoots only one missile unless she spends extra power points. An extra 2 power points increases the caster level from 1st to 3rd, granting her one additional missile. She can spend a maximum of 6 additional power points in this manner, increasing her effective caster level to 7th for damage purposes and granting her a total of four missiles. If she were 9th level or higher, she could spend a maximum of 8 extra power points, granting her five missiles (just like a 9th-level caster).

Spells that allow a character to recall or recast a spell cannot be learned.

Because the spells are now effectively psionic powers, they are no longer affected by metamagic feats. However, metapsionic feats can affect them as they would a psionic power.

As with casting a spell, manifesting a spell may require certain components (see page 174 of the Player's Handbook). Some of the components remain unchanged, such as verbal, somatic, and XP cost. Spells with expensive material components (non-negligible) require you to spend an additional 2 power points when manifesting the spell in lieu of the material components. If you happen to have the material components, no additional power point cost is assessed. Spells with a focus are treated the same as those with a material component. If the spell has an expensive material component and a focus, the additional power point cost would be 4.

[TheOOB]

A psion is required to spend a much greater portion of their resources to achieve powerful effects, due to that fact that they need to augment spells with power points to make them take advantage of their higher manifester level. Their powers are also a little more balanced, saving the powerful save or die effects for high levels, and requiring a lot of augmenting to get their lower level powers to full versatility.

Here is the biggest difference however, psions get a limited pool of powers, they do not have the ability to rewrite their class ability list with 9 hours of rest and preparation.

[enderrocksonall]

But psions do make more effective blasters than wizards, right?

[Dark Tira]

But psions do make more effective blasters than wizards, right?

Only in that they have more flexibility because most of their blasting spells are modal. Wizards ultimately can output more damage overall because all their lower level spells automatically scale while a psion has to use pp to scale.

[kamikasei]

But psions do make more effective blasters than wizards, right?

Due to the ability to tailor energy types, augment damage die according to the threat level, etc: yes. But that's not saying much, since blasting is a weak strategy for a wizard.

Basically, being a good blaster requires on-the-spot flexibility, which a psion has over a wizard in this instance.

[Artanis]

FWIW, Psions also don't lose as much flexibility from blasting as a Wizard does. A Wizard who wants to be able to cast Fireball has to sacrifice spell slots that otherwise would've gone to "batman" stuff, whereas a Psion who wants to be able to manifest blasty stuff just has to wake up in the morning.

[Dark Tira]

FWIW, Psions also don't lose as much flexibility from blasting as a Wizard does. A Wizard who wants to be able to cast Fireball has to sacrifice spell slots that otherwise would've gone to "batman" stuff, whereas a Psion who wants to be able to manifest blasty stuff just has to wake up in the morning.

True enough, but that doesn't change the fact that if the wizard is a more efficient blaster, if he so inclines. It's really compounded by the fact that metamagic feats have more support than metapsionic feats.