Illusion uses?

[Tyger]

Can you use an illusion (specifically the Silent / Minor / Major Image spells) to create light?

The party in my game came up with the idea of creating an illusion of a giant burning phoenix type bird that flies above the party, shining with brilliant light to illuminate 60' of space. As they are deep, deep underground, their need for light is quite real.

But can illusionary light actually allow you too see the real area?? Just seems counter intuitive. That said, they're using a level 3 spell for light, so its not a power issue, and I don't have a problem with it, but it just seems wonky somehow.

[Emperor Demonking]

It makes sense to me, if what they are doing an illusion of creates light.

[Mr. Friendly]

Can you use an illusion (specifically the Silent / Minor / Major Image spells) to create light?

The party in my game came up with the idea of creating an illusion of a giant burning phoenix type bird that flies above the party, shining with brilliant light to illuminate 60' of space. As they are deep, deep underground, their need for light is quite real.

But can illusionary light actually allow you too see the real area?? Just seems counter intuitive. That said, they're using a level 3 spell for light, so its not a power issue, and I don't have a problem with it, but it just seems wonky somehow.

I don't see why not....

[cupkeyk]

Yes and no. Does the caster have darkvision or any other means of seeing without light?

Silent Image... This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.

Emphasis mine. Since the light that is being cast will "illuminate" an area based on the caster's visualization, he can simply cast a glow over what he perceives and share his perception OR make illusory terrain if can't see anything. Everyone will be stumbling over things then. Either way, the illusion cannot exceed the four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level limit.

[cupkeyk]

Check out the Eye Tyrant's Answer

[Brawls]

Yes and no. Does the caster have darkvision or any other means of seeing without light?



Emphasis mine. Since the light that is being cast will "illuminate" an area based on the caster's visualization, he can simply cast a glow over what he perceives and share his perception OR make illusory terrain if can't see anything. Everyone will be stumbling over things then. Either way, the illusion cannot exceed the four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level limit.

I'm inlcined to agree that the illusionist would have to be able to see the terrain in order for the illusion to illuminate it. Further, it seems like this would be a use of the spells that requires constant concentration to make it mobile. Additionally, if the illusionist can see the terrain (via darkvision) then an accurate representation in the illusion may be dependent on his spot check.

Whili I see your delima, can an illusion geneerate its own light source? If you were in pitch black and created the illusion of a dragon next to you, would an enemy with darkvision see the illusion even if you can't? Also, would it be entirely possible that your illusion is ill suited to the environment (i.e. partially occurring in a wall, etc.)?

I guess I would house rule that illusion can function like a light spell, maybe with some drawbacks like intensity or range. Otherwise you could just create an illusion of daybreak occurring in the vampire's crypt and destroy them if they don't disbelieve.

Brawls

[Craig1f]

I think an illusion could provide a light-source within the confines of the squares that the illusion covers. Otherwise, illusions would not be believable in the dark.

I think the light source could not simulate Daylight, but could simulate a continual-flame-type light.

That's a tough one. Tell your players to just remember to bring a damn torch next time.

[Tyger]

Oh, they have a couple of Continual Flame items, and one of them has Darkvision 60', so they aren't completely screwed. They just wanted to be able to see further out than 20' with the torches.

And to their credit, they didn't know they were going underground for this length of time. I told them its a sea-faring adventure, and now they have 70 miles of underground caverns to navigate.

That said, its 4 primary casters: Wizard, Druid, Warmage and Beguiler. They can certainly find a way around it.

[MrNexx]

Your Warmage has Light. They shouldn't lack for visibility.

[BobTheDog]

I think the OP's point is that "this wasn't a problem this time, cause the players have other options to make light, but how should I handle it if it WAS their only option?"

And I say that the Phoenix was a good and creative attempt at making light without the "right" spell, and I'd judge it valid. Though I'd make it a "one-time-only" thing.

[Talic]

Visualize does NOT equal see. Visualize is internal. I.E. if a wizard who hasn't ever seen a basilisk attempts to illusion one up, it'll be made to his specifications... Including the flaws in his visualization.

All spells require is line of sight, and line of effect. If you make an illusion of a torch burning right beside you, it will cast out light 20 feet. If you make the illusion of a blazing bonfire, it'll cast light out farther. Note that the light generated would be nonmagical in nature (the only thing magical is the illusion itself), so would not overcome any darkness based spell effects.

This is an example where illusion can interact with the real world.