[house rule] Nerf for Wildshape?

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Many people agree that Wildshape needs to be nerfed to balance things out. I've not got a lot of experience with druids, so I'm throwing out my proposal for examination by the Playgrounders.

• Add new feat: "Natural Magic" (see below). Change feat "Natural Spell" (see below).
• Start Wildshape at 6th level, not 5th.
• Wildshape 2 / day at 8th level.
• Wildshape (Large) at 10th.
• Wildshape 3 /day (Tiny) at 12th.
• Wildshape (Plant) at 14th.
• Wildshape (Elemental 1 /day) at 16th.
• Wildshape 4 / day at 18th.
• Wildshape (Huge) at 20th.

New & changed feats:
Natural Magic:
You retain some magical abilities when in Wildshape.
Prerequisite: Wis 13+, Wildshape ability.
Benefit: You can cast spells available to your class through spontaneous casting while in Wildshape.
Normal: You cannot normally cast spells while in Wildshape.

Natural Spell:
Prerequisite: add "Druid level 15+" and "Natural Magic" to the prerequisites for Natural Spell.

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Are these measures too nerfed? Not nerfed enough? Do I need to give something back in its place to make up for reducing the druid's special abilities?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Cryopyre]

So basically they can only cast Summon Nature's Ally spells for the first times, seems alright to me, but I think that the Wildshape problem lies in the fact that you can become a dire tiger and rip apart small people while having a dire tiger pet ripping apart more small people.

[Maldraugedhen]

Variant I'm rolling with right now is that the druid has to be familiar with the animal, AND gets a limited number of alternate forms (equal to # times / day). You can swap alternate forms, but it's like taking a new animal companion--time-consuming.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Thanks for the input. I want to limit it without removing the ability entirely - Wildshape is one of the things many fans seem to like.

Another option I'm pondering is the entire removal of the Natural Spell feat. If there was no Natural Spell, and I used my variant progression here, would that work? Should I use my Natural Magic feat instead, or not at all?

[Lochar]

You could redo natural spell to allows them to use a certain number of spells in Wildshape form, kinda like Spell Mastery.

IE: You are so familiar with some of your spells that you may use a limited number of them even while in Wildshape. This number is equal to your Wisdom modifier(or Wis modifier +3). Once selected, these spells may not be changed.

You may select this feat multiple times. Each time, it applies to a new set of spells allowed in Wildshape form.

You may only choose spells that you can currently cast. You may not select spells that you do not yet qualify for.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

You could redo natural spell to allows them to use a certain number of spells in Wildshape form, kinda like Spell Mastery.

IE: You are so familiar with some of your spells that you may use a limited number of them even while in Wildshape. This number is equal to your Wisdom modifier(or Wis modifier +3). Once selected, these spells may not be changed.

You may select this feat multiple times. Each time, it applies to a new set of spells allowed in Wildshape form.

You may only choose spells that you can currently cast. You may not select spells that you do not yet qualify for.

Now that's a darn fine idea!

[PePe QuiCoSE]

an idea i had the other time was to force a roll each time they cast while in wild shape. If they fail, they won't be able to cast that spell unless they are in that shape. No idea which stat nor DC would be appropriate.