DMM for the Arcane

[bugsysservant]

Is there any way to gain access to turn undead and divine spells without losing arcane caster levels? I suppose you could take a few levels in Anima Mage and bind Tenebrous, IIRC, for turn undead, but how about the the divine spellcasting necessary for alternative spell source? Do you just have to suck it up and take a level of cleric?

[GryffonDurime]

Without losing caster levels? I don't know of any...but for a small fee, the Geomancer might be able to make your arcane spells count as divine for DMM.

[cupkeyk]

Be Dread Necromancer with the Southern Magician Feat from some FR book.

[Darrin]

Is there any way to gain access to turn undead and divine spells without losing arcane caster levels? I suppose you could take a few levels in Anima Mage and bind Tenebrous, IIRC, for turn undead, but how about the the divine spellcasting necessary for alternative spell source? Do you just have to suck it up and take a level of cleric?

For Turn Undead 1/day, it'll cost you at least two feats (God Touched and Divine Channeler):

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...Touched,Dragon
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...anneler,Dragon

You can do something similar with Necromantic Bloodline and Kin Mastery (Dragon #325 or Dragon Compendium), but that requires spontaneous arcane casting and mucks around a bit with your spell list.

Assuming you could find a suitable church organization willing to sanction arcane casters, a 9th level wizard (access to dismissal) could take a level in Sacred Exorcist to pick up turn undead. Sorcerers may have a little trouble there with the knowledge skill requirements. Sacred Exorcist doesn't require divine spellcasting, and the caster levels don't specify arcane or divine.

For the ability to cast divine spells... Minor Divine Spellcaster (Dragon #305) grants orisons, which would qualify you for Alternative Spell Source, but requires God-Touched and Divine Channeler. Feats being so scarce, it can be tough to work all that into a wizard build.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...lcaster,Dragon

If all you're looking for are cure or heal spells, consider Divine Sorcery (Dragon #343) instead of Arcane Disciple:

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...Sorcery,Dragon

This works best for sorcerers, but won't work with Alternative Spell Source because the spells it grants are arcane spells. It does have some other interesting applications. For starters, the spell granted isn't limited by Wisdom, so you can keep that as a dump stat. Also, since it grants you a domain ability, it opens up a lot of PrCs that are normally only available to clerics. The most interesting application would be Customize Domain, particularly the Magic or Healing domains, which opens up a lot of divine spells, including Heal and Resurrection.

What exactly are you trying to do? Abuse DMM as a wizard/sorcerer? (Possible, but requires a lot of feats.)

[Toliudar]

This might be in errata rather than the original book, but I thought DMM could only alter divine spells.

[cupkeyk]

which is why he wants to be able to cast divine spells. The southern magician, from Races of Faerun, is your best bet, you can cast a few spells up to half your caster level, you can alter an arcane spell such that it counts as a divine spell, and thus DMM-able.

[Darrin]

This might be in errata rather than the original book, but I thought DMM could only alter divine spells.

Alternative Source Spell allows you to prepare any arcane spell as a divine spell, but one caster level lower. A cleric 1/wizard 6 could prepare a fireball in a 3rd level slot as a divine spell, cast as a 5th level wizard.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...e_Spell,Dragon

To do this without a dip into cleric:

Wiz 1: God-Touched, Divine Channeler (human)
Wiz 3: Minor Divine Spellcaster
Wiz 5: any Metamagic
Wiz 6: Alternative Source Spell
Wiz 9: Divine Metamagic

Doable, but it costs a lot of feats. You'll probably get more metamagic abuse out of Incantatrix.

And while a 1-level cleric dip loses you a caster level, you get 1st level cleric spells, two domains (also two sources of potential bonus feats), access to cleric wands/scrolls/etc., and multiple turn undead attempts per day.

[bugsysservant]

which is why he wants to be able to cast divine spells. The southern magician, from Races of Faerun, is your best bet, you can cast a few spells up to half your caster level, you can alter an arcane spell such that it counts as a divine spell, and thus DMM-able.

Are you sure they are actual Divine Spells, or are they just treated as such? I seem to recall that the feat's wording specifically says that the source of the spell is the same. Has Wizards ruled on this, or would that be up to the DM?

[nerulean]

I seem to recall you can get some of the cheesy effects using Spelldancer from some FR specific book. Doesn't work in combat, but if you're looking for cheap persists then it is basically free.

[Bag_of_Holding]

I believe Anima Mage requires a level of Binder (the feat cannot qualify, neither does gaining AM level allow one to gain access to binding vestiges as a binder does; it only improves pre-existing binding ability), thus losing a level of arcane caster. Another way is to go Dweomerkeeper (CD web enhancement), which allows arcane spells of your choice to be treated as divine spells, but it also requires divine spell casting levels, so also losing that precious arcane caster level.

There is one other way of emulating DMM iirc, which is to use Illumian's sigils (krau and one other, which I can't remember) that allows you to emulate DMM as long as you have access to turn/rebuke undead (so, you'll have to be a DN to do that).