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Thread: Aasimar...lite?
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2008-01-01, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Aasimar...lite?
Where would I find those "Lesser Aasimar/Tiefling" races I read so much about?
Last edited by UserClone; 2008-01-01 at 10:10 AM.
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X Stat to Y Bonus
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SpoilerOriginally Posted by BRC
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2008-01-01, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Players guide to Faerun, I believe. They're utterly unbalanced.
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2008-01-01, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
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2008-01-01, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Sean K. Reynolds Savage Progressions has a better way of taking the level adjustment out of Aasimar.
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2008-01-01, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
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2008-01-01, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
The original has an LA too high, yes.
Yes, I do think that those are balanced ability score bonuses, given the absolutely crappy other abilities Aasimar get.
Let's compare a bit.
Originally Posted by Aasimar
Originally Posted by Dwarf
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2008-01-01, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Hmmm. The dwarf gets a +2 to CON (and -2 to CHA, but that doesn't hurt him much, except by keeping him from sorcery) , a bunch of situationally useful abilities, and +2 on saves against spells.
The Aasmir gets +2 to WIS, and +2 to CHA, and a few minor abilities. Really, for +0 LA, why *wouldn't* a cleric be an aasmir? And let's face it, LA should be based on the *best* classes for the race, not the worst.
Admittedly, unless he's a cleric, the aasmir doesn't come out *too* far ahead. But isn't a dwarf also a fairly (I do not, however, say overly), strong LA+0? At the other extreme, compare him to the .5Orc! Even compared to the fairly average gnome, the aasmir, I think, comes out way ahead.
In general, bonuses to spellcasting stats are very valuable. The aasmir gets two!
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2008-01-01, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Situationally very useful abilities, yes. Good saves against spells as well.
The Aasmir gets +2 to WIS, and +2 to CHA, and a few minor abilities. Really, for +0 LA, why *wouldn't* a cleric be an aasmir? And let's face it, LA should be based on the *best* classes for the race, not the worst.
2) A cleric may want better protections versus spells. He may want a better Constitution score. He may want to have access to a number of weapons without an exotic weapon proficiency feat. He may want a bonus feat. He may want immunity to sleep effects. He may want to be Small, and get all the bonuses from that. He may want more strength.
Admittedly, unless he's a cleric, the aasmir doesn't come out *too* far ahead. But isn't a dwarf also a fairly (I do not, however, say overly), strong LA+0? At the other extreme, compare him to the .5Orc! Even compared to the fairly average gnome, the aasmir, I think, comes out way ahead.
In general, bonuses to spellcasting stats are very valuable. The aasmir gets two!
All in all, an Aasimar cleric is not a lot more powerful than a human cleric, and certainly not particularly more powerful than, say, a Half-Orc barbarian (other than by the abusability of the cleric class at higher levels - race will have nothing to do with this.)
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2008-01-01, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Remember that stat bonuses will let you improve other stats much more in point buy - an aasimar cleric with 18 wisdom and 16 charisma has other stats much higher overall than a human cleric with 18 wisdom and 16 charisma. That's worth much more than a bonus feat.
Tieflings have a net stat bonus of +2 instead of +4, but that doesn't mean they are less overpowered for 0 LA - since the classes they are best suited for have little use for charisma anyway.
A race really has to have severe weaknesses to have a net total stat bonus more than 0 and have 0 LA. Neither lesser aasimar nor lesser tiefling has them.
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2008-01-01, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
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2008-01-01, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Dwarves i personally think should have been LA 1, as such in game they are. They are VERY powerful for a non-LA race.
Compare Aasimar to the Elf, shall we?
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2008-01-01, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
What's so strong about (for example) dwarves then, if stats aren't so special? Stonecunning? +2 to saves versus poison? Stats ARE important, and there are very few races that have racial abilities that are more important than stats - from core ones, the only ones are human (bonus feat) and small races.
We're talking about the lesser, 0 LA aasimar here. Normal aasimar and tiefling are rather weak for LA +1 races.
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2008-01-01, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
i do think they are a lot closer to a LA of 0 than to 1.
think of it the other way, who would give up a level of cleric for +2 wis and
+2 char?thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2008-01-01, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-01, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Normal aasimar and tiefling belong to the same category as whisper gnome (except that they are on the other side of the fence) - too weak for LA +1, too strong for LA 0. I agree with Talya that Savage Species handle them the best way.
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2008-01-01, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
If you really think that they're overpowered, drop the Daylight special attack and energy resistances. Then they're easily within the middle range of LA+0.
The only classes that can make use of both their ability bonuses anyways are a paladin (which need all the help they can get) or a turn-undead abusing cleric (which is a problem regardless).
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2008-01-01, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Rogues?
It's like asking "Who wouldn't give up, say, a Half-Orc's bonuses for a +2 Con?" Casters. Or "Who wouldn't give up, say, an elf's bonuses for a +2 Str?" Barbarians.
Different races are suited to different classes more. Lesser Aasimar happen to be good clerics.
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2008-01-01, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
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2008-01-01, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with Savage Species. It may also have a good way of dealing with them.
I'm referring to Sean K. Reynolds' Savage Progressions collumn on the WotC website. In particular, he did one section on level adjusted races. It can be found here.
Note that while these rules are "official," in the same sense as Unearthed Arcana alternate rules are official WotC published ideas, (/barbosa on) they are more like "guidelines" than actual rules.(/barbosa off). He doesn't show every possible level adjusted race or template, nor are the examples he gives ironclad and unalterable (for instance, you could swap the aasimar's wisdom or charisma bonus at level 0 depending on your character concept.) They just provide an example for how to divide up a level adjustment over time.Last edited by Talya; 2008-01-01 at 05:04 PM.
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2008-01-01, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
These are what I meant - I thought they are from Savage Species. Guess I was mistaken.
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2008-01-06, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
I'll point out one of the primary advantages of being an outsider: immunity to the wide range of lower-level spells that are designed to affect humanoids. Sure, a dwarf or elf gets a +2 to save against that Charm Person spell, but an Aasimar is immune, because it's not technically a person.
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2008-01-06, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
Umm, where exactly in Player's Guide to Faerun are those Lesser Aasimar/Tieflings? I can't seem to find them...
Common sense is not so common.
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SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2008-01-06, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-01-06, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?
At LA +1, Aasimar is a good race choice for a Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, or Favored Soul (which relies on both WIS and CHA). With LA buyoff this ends up being only 3,000 XP behind LA +0 races -- meaning at higher levels, the Aasimar character is mostly at the same class level as other party members.
Given that the LA +1 choice is a fine option, the LA +0 version does seem excessively good.
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2008-01-06, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aasimar...lite?